Jump to content

tabitreader

Recommended Posts

Just finished up The Hero of Ages for an unknown number of re-reads. 

It's no coincidence that Mistborn's second era takes place 300 years after Kelsier destroyed the Pits of Hathsin, right. Not 200 years, or 500 years. We were told it would be 300 years before Atium could be harvested again. 

Ruin couldn't annihilate Scadrial because he was missing his body/power/Atium. He was incomplete. Powered but not powerful.

Vin's body absorbed all the mist from the skies, so Sazed absorbed a full and complete shard. When Sazed absorbed the dark smoke from Ati's body, he only absorbed an impotent shard, a half-shard perhaps, incomplete. Powered, not even close as powerful as Vin's shard.

Harmony still needs the power that Ati/Ruin never got. Harmony is currently under attack from Odium? Or some other shard wanting to remove all life from the sphere. (The Set) Perhaps it's Hoid doing his Adonalsium Round-up Tour, kidding. :)

So, I presume that Harmony moved the Hathsin shardpool/perpendicularity to some crazy hidden underground/underwater inaccessible place waiting for the well/pool/hot tub to fill up again. Marsh is likely guarding it. Harmony likely changed the form of the power from happy lil' god candies to another form, perhaps a cozy hot tub that Harmony could dip his toes in. Thus making him complete, at last.

Once he is two completely powerful shards he will toss Odium away from his system for good. Until era three and a cast of all new characters.

Thoughts?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Preservation added a little extra of himself to humans, so part of Preservation's power is also out of circulation.  That's why Ruin and Preservation are still balanced in Sazed.

SA spoiler

Spoiler

Odium wouldn't be attacking Scadrial at this time, because he's trapped in the Roshar system.  I think a lot of us believe the attack is coming from Autonomy.

Brandon's RAFO'd the current status of atium generation on Scadrial, so we don't know if the pits still exist or if they would still generate atium, since Ruin and Preservation are one Shard now.

Sazed as Harmony still has much more power than Odium or any other single Shard in the Cosmere.  The problem he's encountering is that the powers he holds are so evenly matched that he has trouble acting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Pits are no more. The Well too.

Quote

Dalenthas

Does the Well of Ascension still exist in the new world? Or is it no longer necessary? I assumed that Preservation collected there like Ruin collects in the Pits of Hathsin, so if Atium keeps forming then the well should keep filling...

Brandon Sanderson

The Well (and the small wells in the Pits) is no more. For now at least.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Nathrangking said:

@RShara

  Hide contents

 I'm pretty sure that we know that the pits still exist as wax and tensoon climbed through them to escape the constructs that bleeder sent after them in SoS.

 

 

The rock structure the pits occupied still exist, but the WoB seems to be implying that the crystals and pits which grew atium no longer exist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said:

The rock structure the pits occupied still exist, but the WoB seems to be implying that the crystals and pits which grew atium no longer exist.

^^ What Spool said.  I was talking about the crystal structures that create the atium.  I just auto-call them the Pits as the whole shbang lol.  The cracks, the crystals, the geodes, and the metal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since Ati is dead Brandon would agree no more atium is produced (it's no longer called "Ati"um) The small wells that coalesced Ati's body/power/force has been altered to appear in some hidden place Harmony only knows and the form of power will be changed too, since Harmony can't eat lil god candies. Probably a vapor he is attuned to just like Vin attuned the night mists.

The metal Wax found inside Bleeder wasn't a Scadrial metal. Enemy invested metal from Odium, Autonomy, (insert theorized shard here)

If wax and tensoon went through a perpendicularity, they would be in Shadesmar, where Kelsier went to meet Fuzz.

That small pinch of Preservation that was added took thousands of years to weaken Leras, nowhere near the level of power Ruin was missing when Sazed absorbed Ruins mind, not body/force/power.

My plot suggestion only theorizes the extinction level calamity the Splinters of Adonalsium are playing at. I'm not mentioning the other plots the human heroes must play. I'm not giving away the book plot. Just wondering if you all think I might be right.

Harmony is definitely two distinct and seperate shards (Ruin's shard being only partly powerful. He had to separate them from each other inside his mind. Being so disciplined with copperminds likely helped him.

Harmony is not completely two full shards, hence his difficulties banishing Scadrial's enemy shard.

He has difficulties acting in the world because he isn't at full strength/potency.

The red force pressing on the world, as wax saw it scared Harmony because he's incomplete right now. (The book hasn't come out yet for fiture visitors to this thread)

Scadrial's spiritual realm still leaks power/mists at nighttime like it used to, hence something is still wrong.

More thoughts?  (Sorry for misspelling, autocorrect sucks on my phone)

Edited by tabitreader
Spelling error
Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, tabitreader said:

Since Ati is dead Brandon would agree no more atium is produced (it's no longer called "Ati"um) The small wells that coalesced Ati's body/power/force has been altered to appear in some hidden place Harmony only knows and the form of power will be changed too, since Harmony can't eat lil god candies. Probably a vapor he is attuned to just like Vin attuned the night mists.

The metal Wax found inside Bleeder wasn't a Scadrial metal. Enemy invested metal from Odium, Autonomy, (insert theorized shard here)

If wax and tensoon went through a perpendicularity, they would be in Shadesmar, where Kelsier went to meet Fuzz.

That small pinch of Preservation that was added took thousands of years to weaken Leras, nowhere near the level of power Ruin was missing when Sazed absorbed Ruins mind, not body/force/power.

My plot suggestion only theorizes the extinction level calamity the Splinters of Adonalsium are playing at. I'm not mentioning the other plots the human heroes must play. I'm not giving away the book plot. Just wondering if you all think I might be right.

Harmony is definitely two distinct and seperate shards (Ruin's shard being only partly powerful. He had to separate them from each other inside his mind. Being so disciplined with copperminds likely helped him.

Harmony is not completely two full shards, hence his difficulties banishing Scadrial's enemy shard.

He has difficulties acting in the world because he isn't at full strength/potency.

The red force pressing on the world, as wax saw it scared Harmony because he's incomplete right now. (The book hasn't come out yet for fiture visitors to this thread)

Scadrial's spiritual realm still leaks power/mists at nighttime like it used to, hence something is still wrong.

More thoughts?  (Sorry for misspelling, autocorrect sucks on my phone)

I'm sorry but the text and WoBs disagree with you here.  Sazed clearly says that Preservation was weaker because he gave part of himself to fuel humanity's sapience.

Hero of Ages Chapter 53 end epigraph.

Quote

Preservation's desire to create sentient life was what eventually broke the stalemate. In order to give mankind awareness and independent thought, Preservation knew that he would have to give up part of himself—his own soul—to dwell within mankind. This would leave him just a tiny bit weaker than his opposite, Ruin.

That tiny bit seemed inconsequential, compared with their total vast sums of power. However, over aeons, this tiny flaw would allow Ruin to overcome Preservation, thereby bringing an end to the world.

This, then, was their bargain. Preservation got mankind, the only creations that had more Preservation than Ruin in them, rather than a balance. Independent life that could think and feel. In exchange, Ruin was given a promise—and proof—that he could bring an end to all they had created together. It was the pact.

And Preservation eventually broke it.

And Vin notes that she and Ruin were still perfectly balanced while Ruin was looking for the atium.  So enough of Preservation's power was invested in humanity to match the missing part of Ruin.

Quote

He says he's stronger, Vin thought. Yet, we are equally matched. Is he lying again?

No . . . he didn't lie. Looking back with her ever-expanding mind, she saw that everything Ruin said, he believed. He truly thought that whatever she did helped him. He saw the world through the lenses of destruction.

He wasn't lying about being more powerful than she. Yet, they were obviously matched at the moment. Which meant . . .

There's another piece of Ruin out there, Vin thought. Preservation is weaker because he gave up a piece of himself to create mankind. Not his consciousness—that he used to fuel Ruin's prison—but an actual bit of his power.

What she had suspected before, she now knew with certainty. Ruin's power was concentrated, hidden somewhere by Preservation. The atium. Ruin was stronger. Or, he would be, once he recovered the last part of his self. Then, he would be able to destroy completely—they would no longer be balanced.

 

And here, Brandon confirms Harmony is one Shard now.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/190-rfantasy-ama-2013/#e4115

Quote

Thanatos17901

If Sazed were to die, would he drop the Shards Ruin and Preservation, or would he drop the Shard Harmony?

Brandon Sanderson

Excellent question. The shards are now intermingled, and would take effort to split apart. He would drop Harmony. (This is what Odium feared would happen, by the way.)

 

 

And here, he says that Harmony has trouble acting because of the opposing intents.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/219-words-of-radiance-philadelphia-signing/#e7791

Quote

Questioner

I was actually wondering, the epigraphs for The Way of Kings, that were talking about how the various Shardholders [Vessels] are influenced by their Shards over time—how does that impact someone like Harmony, with multiple shards?

Brandon Sanderson

The main effect it's having on Harmony right now is the inability to act sometimes, because his two sides are pushing, and so he is having trouble being proactive. It'd take a long time before it really becomes manifest, but he's had several hundred years, so it's starting to have an effect.

 

The mists still come out because Harmony wants them to.  They still Snap people, as well, I believe.  Although Snapping is much gentler and easier than it was before Harmony.  I think he also uses them to fuel some of his chosen agents.  Wax often describes how he feels more powerful in the mists, and he survives wounds that should kill him.  Almost like he's burning just a bit of Pewter.

Edited by RShara
Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, tabitreader said:

when Sazed absorbed Ruins mind, not body/force/power.

I think you're misunderstanding something here. There are several aspects to the Shards. There is the entity that possesses the Shard, there is the Intent of the Shard, and there is the Power of the Shard. In Ruin's case, the entity is Ati. Ati, we know from other sources, was once a gentle man, but because of the intent of Ruin, he was twisted and changed to suit that Intent. The power you are referring to (Harmony not being two complete shards, because Ruin wasn't complete at the Ascension) was indeed a part of Ruin, but it was, to my understanding, his investiture coalescing on Scadrial, much like Preservation's did at the well. It was the difference between Ruin and Preservation being equal, and Ruin finally gaining the upper hand, but it was burned away, so it didn't exist in its tangible, obtainable form.

Harmony didn't absorb Ruin's mind--That would have been Ati, who died at the hands of Vin, who hadn't held Preservation long enough to be changed by its Intent. What Sazed absorbed was the Shard itself, just like he did with Preservation's Shard.

37 minutes ago, tabitreader said:

Harmony is definitely two distinct and seperate shards (Ruin's shard being only partly powerful. He had to separate them from each other inside his mind. Being so disciplined with copperminds likely helped him.

Harmony is not completely two full shards, hence his difficulties banishing Scadrial's enemy shard.

The two Shards have merged together (thanks for the WoB @RShara) and we DO know that they are working in conjuction with each other and are used equally powerfully by Sazed. Any excess power of Ruin in Scadrial would just be part of Sazed because Sazed and the Ruin Shard are now the same. Where Sazed struggles is not on a power level, like you're implying here, but rather on a cognitive one. Ruin and Preservation are opposites. One pulls to keep everything the same, the other pushes to destroy. Sazed says to Wax in one of the books that he IS both, that he sees the need for both. This is the effect of two Intents working diametrically on him.

We do know, however, that as of now Ruin and Preservation are both the same.

As for being disciplined with copperminds...remember that the mind expands under the Shard's influence. His capabilities expanded with the possession of the Shards.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, tabitreader said:

Thank you RShara and Alderant.

You have convinced me sufficiently. I wish I was more familiar with Brandon's words to fans as you both are. I only dabble in Cosmere matters as this clearly shows.

I have been trounced magnificently. :)

Sorry lol

It happens to us all.  I get my theories chewed up all the time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, tabitreader said:

Thank you RShara and Alderant.

You have convinced me sufficiently. I wish I was more familiar with Brandon's words to fans as you both are. I only dabble in Cosmere matters as this clearly shows.

I have been trounced magnificently. :)

Ehh...it wasn't a bad theory, just incomplete. Don't sweat it too much. Some of us are a little too invested in the Cosmere, lol.

17 minutes ago, RShara said:

Sorry lol

It happens to us all.  I get my theories chewed up all the time.

And then there's those of us who mostly react with our own thoughts rather than put out theories of our own for fear of the inevitable chewing up... ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Alderant said:

Ehh...it wasn't a bad theory, just incomplete. Don't sweat it too much. Some of us are a little too invested in the Cosmere, lol.

And then there's those of us who mostly react with our own thoughts rather than put out theories of our own for fear of the inevitable chewing up... ;)

I mostly do the latter, because I'm awful at picking up text clues, but great at spotting inconsistencies!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 22/1/2018 at 5:51 AM, Andy92 said:

My argument about the Lost Metal is that Atium just seems too obvious for a Sanderson book plot lol. 

Well I for example believe the Atium is the Lost Metal (also because every "new metal" has no sense with the title of "lost metal") but it will return by an unexpected source (that it's mostly an headcanon of mine for now).

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, Yata said:

Well I for example believe the Atium is the Lost Metal (also because every "new metal" has no sense with the title of "lost metal") but it will return by an unexpected source (that it's mostly an headcanon of mine for now).

 

Unless if it's a metal that predates the original trilogy. We wouldn't have seen it in the text, but it would still classify as being "lost."

But I still think the book is about Wayne losing his golden pocket watch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/22/2018 at 10:01 AM, tabitreader said:

Harmony is not completely two full shards, hence his difficulties banishing Scadrial's enemy shard.

I think this has a lot more to do with his inability to act than his power which is actually more than Odium here are a couple WoB

 

Quote

 

Questioner

Does Odium actually present a real threat to Harmony, because he-- *interrupted*

Brandon Sanderson

So Harmony is vastly more powerful than Odium.

Questioner

Yeah. 

Brandon Sanderson

Elend was vastly more powerful than Vin. Who would win in a fight?

Questioner

Vin.

Brandon Sanderson

Okay, there's your answer.

 

 

Quote

 

ericth

Could Sazed take down Rayse since he has two shards?

Brandon Sanderson

Rayse is VERY scared of Sazed. However, given Sazed is a composite of two diametrically opposed shards, he finds it very difficult to act.

 

 

Era 2 Spoilers

Spoiler

I personally do not think it is Odium threatening Scadrial. The attackers intent from what we have seen in the Era 2 books aligns much more with Autonomy 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/24/2018 at 10:54 AM, StormingTexan said:

Era 2 Spoilers

  Hide contents

I personally do not think it is Odium threatening Scadrial. The attackers intent from what we have seen in the Era 2 books aligns much more with Autonomy 

 

Spoiler

It can't be Odium because he's trapped in the Roshar system.

 

22 minutes ago, Thanatos said:

Isnt there a WOB saying Harmony is doing something with the extra bit of Ruin (Atium) to keep him 50/50 balanced?

Kinda.

Quote

rags

How is Harmony balanced when a part of Preservation's power is expended on human sentience? Isn't that what caused all the trouble to begin with?

Brandon Sanderson

Indeed. Hm... What could Sazed be doing with that extra power...

source

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, StormingTexan said:

@RShara You are assuming that is still the case after book 5 of SA. 

 

I don't see how

Spoiler

Odium being freed of the Rosharan system would be a good ending or plot point for SA5.  Besides, that would end up taking the battle out of the Rosharan system, which would make it *really* hard to keep SA self-contained, as Brandon wants it.

 

Edited by RShara
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, RShara said:

I don't see how

  Hide contents

Odium being freed of the Rosharan system would be a good ending or plot point for SA5.  Besides, that would end up taking the battle out of the Rosharan system, which would make it *really* hard to keep SA self-contained, as Brandon wants it.

 

From my earlier post you can see I am not a proponent of this but I also think you cant say it is impossible being we do not know what will happen in the next two SA books much less the last 5. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...