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[OB] Awakening and Elsecalling for Worldhoppers


Llarimar

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4 hours ago, Confused said:

I define Identity as the relationship between a mortal and a Shardworld that permits the mortal to use that Shardworld’s Investiture. I think most “hacks” involve changes to the magic user’s Identity. IIRC, Hoid, Zahel and Azure are the cosmere’s only known “hackers.”

How does your definition of a canon term work for the WoB that Identity can be used to make it harder for somewhere to work SoulForgery on you?

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sebarial

Would a feruchemist actively storing identity be more susceptible to Forgery? Would more outlandish changes be able to take effect? Thanks for your time, and have a wonderful day.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, if you store identity, it makes you susceptible to ALL KINDS of things in the Cosmere. Forgery would be on the short list.

[Source]

 

4 hours ago, Confused said:

This is a true statement because OB tells us human Surgebinding destroyed their prior world. But we don’t know whether off-world Surgebinding would use spren and the same mechanics as Roshar’s Surgebinding.

Actually, OB told us that Surges destroyed the previous world, not necessarily surgebinding. A WoB later confirmed that it's a different magic. [Source]

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4 hours ago, Confused said:

I define Identity as the relationship between a mortal and a Shardworld that permits the mortal to use that Shardworld’s Investiture. I think most “hacks” involve changes to the magic user’s Identity. IIRC, Hoid, Zahel and Azure are the cosmere’s only known “hackers.”

 

Mmmm.  Identity has been defined in the Cosmere, though, so we shouldn't apply our own definitions to it.

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“Identity,” VenDell said, slapping his reed against the wall, casting a shadow on the image. “Lord Ladrian, could another Feruchemist use your metalminds?”

“Of course not,” Wax said. “Everyone knows that.”

“Why?”

“Well … because. They’re mine.”

Feruchemy was simple, elegant. Fill your metalmind with an attribute for an hour—like Wax’s weight, or Wayne’s health and healing—and you could draw out an hour’s worth of that attribute later on. Alternatively, you could draw out a burst of power that was extremely intense but lasted only a moment.

“The raw power of both Allomancy and Feruchemy,” VenDell said, “is something we call Investiture. This is very important, as in Feruchemy, an individual’s Investiture is keyed specifically to them. To what we call Identity.”

“You’ve made me curious,” Wax said, looking at the wall as VenDell leisurely walked back to his machine. “How does it know? My metalminds … do they recognize me?”

“After a fashion,” VenDell said, changing the image to one of a Feruchemist tapping strength. The woman’s muscles had grown to several times their normal size as she lifted a horse above her head. “Each man or woman has a Spiritual aspect, a piece of themselves that exists in another Realm entirely. You might call it your soul. Your Investiture is keyed to your soul—indeed, it might be a part of your soul, much as your blood is a part of your body.”

“So if a person could store their Identity,” Marasi said, “as Waxillium does with his weight…”

There are also a number of WoB about Identity, that I feel make it clear that Identity is what makes a particular bit of Investiture yours, and prevents other people from using it, regardless of source.  https://wob.coppermind.net/adv_search/?query=identity

 

It sounds like you might mean Connection, rather than Identity there?  Since Connection is much more of a factor for whether you can use a given magic system or not.

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3 hours ago, RShara said:
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Zas678 (paraphrased)

Do people in the Cosmere, besides Nalthis, have Breaths?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No. To elaborate a little more, that's not to say they don't have a life force, because they do. But if someone not from Nalthis were to suddenly gain the ability to become an Awakener, they could not use what they have to Awaken something. That's not to say that they can't receive Breaths though

 

This is very helpful - I've been wondering about this.  I just want to clarify, even though I know I'm basically just restating the WoB.

       1.  People from Nalthis have Breath, and they can receive Breath from other people.

       2.  People from Nalthis with extra Breath can use it for Awakening.

       3.  Non-Nalthians do not have Breath, but they can receive Breath from Nalthians who do.

       4.  If a non-Nalthian receives extra Breath, they cannot use it for Awakening.

And with regards to color:

       5.  A Nalthian with Breath uses color drain as a catalyst to fuel their Awakening.

I am still a bit confused on number 5, though, for a few reasons.  The reason why it's confusing to me is because color is not a tangible substance.  It makes sense that Scadrians burn metal in order to fuel their Allomancy, but it's more confusing that Nalthians drain color to fuel their Awakening.  @Confused summed this up pretty well:

4 hours ago, Confused said:

IMO, “color drain” refers to the withdrawal of Investiture from a person or object. Szeth and Lift develop gray streaks when Nightblood draws Investiture from them. Shardblade-severed limbs turn gray, when they lose Connection to the soul and its Investiture. “Color-drained” objects like Wit’s coat also turn gray.

That suggests “color drained” objects turn gray because of Investiture withdrawal. The withdrawn Investiture can’t be in color itself, because color is the reflected portion of the EMR spectrum. Color is how the eye perceives that reflected EMR. Color never actually attaches to the colored object. Rather, color is the part of the EMR spectrum that the object doesn’t absorb.

So color is a cognitive perception - it is what our eyes intake based on how the light bounces off an object.  However, I think that it is possible that this abstract phenomenon - light reflecting from an object to produce color - is the manifestation of Endowment's essence, just like metal is Preservation's essence.  Metal is able to give an Allowmancer access Preservation's special brand of Investiture, just like the light reflecting off an object (color) is able to give a Nalthian access to Endowment's special brand of Investiture.  All metal contains Investiture in the form of Preservation's essence (although @The One Who Connects and @Calderis point out that Soulcast metal and godmetal may be exceptions), and all reflected light contains inherent Investiture in the form of Endowment's essence.  

Awakeners draw from an object its connection to Endowment's Investiture - its ability to reflect light and produce color.  Afterwards, the reflected light is "used up," like the metal is used up in Allomancy, and the object turns gray and is no longer able to reflect light and produce color.  Its connection to Endowment's Investiture has been severed.

4 hours ago, Confused said:

Not “Nalthian Color,” but Endowment’s Investiture. IMO, every Shardworld’s Catalyst is the resident Shard’s Physical Realm Investiture. ... While empowered by the Bands, Marasi in BoM sees metal as Preservation’s “Concentrated essence, providing a pathway to power.” (Chapter 28, Kindle p. 359.)

I do believe that Awakening requires Endowment’s Investiture as its Catalyst. Why should a different Shard’s essence be used to access Endowment’s power?

I find myself agreeing with this.  We shouldn't think about this in terms of Nalthian color, but rather in terms of Endowment's Investiture.  Awakening requires Endowment's Investiture as a catalyst, just like Allomancy requires Preservation's Investiture as a catalyst.

4 hours ago, Confused said:

Unlike some other Catalysts, Preservation’s essence exists cosmere-wide.

THIS however, is where I disagree, if the implication is that Endowment's essence does not exist cosmere-wide.  It is true that some catalysts, such as Stormlight, are restricted to their home planet.  However, I think that Awakening's catalyst (reflected light or color) does exist cosmere-wide, because all color is a part of Endowment's essence, and all objects reflect light and produce color, regardless of the planet.  There is nothing special about color on Nalthis, or the way that objects reflect light there, just like there isn't anything special about metal on Scadrial.  So if Hoid or Vivenna were to use Awakening on Roshar, they would draw from a Rosharan object it's connection to Endowment's special brand of Investiture, turning it gray and removing its ability to reflect light.  

3 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

I'll admit that I'm partially against your theory because I don't see the point in this restriction to the magic. It feels like restrictions for the sake of having restrictions, rather than a limit with a story purpose.

I agree with this as well - I think it makes much more sense if Awakening can draw power from color on any planet, rather than just Nalthis.  This is especially true because Awakening seems like one of the weaker cosmere abilities right now, and I feel like Brandon will want to give it all the help it can get so it can stand alongside powers like Allomancy. 

All of the quotes from @RShara about the importance of color when it comes to gemstones makes me wonder if I'm oversimplifying things - perhaps all color is Endowment's essence, but color can also be important in other it ways, such as indicating the properties of a gemstone for Soulcasting (I had previously assumed that certain gemstones were used for Soulcasting because of their mineral or elemental composition, rather than just because of their color).

Although I may be wrong about some of this, it just makes sense to me that Nalthians are able to Awaken everywhere because Endowment's Investiture - the ability of an object to reflect light and visually produce color - exists everywhere. 

5 hours ago, Confused said:

I’ve not seen the statement @Llarimar refers to that “the draining of color on Nalthis is merely a byproduct of performing an Awakening, rather than an actual source of energy.” If confirmed, that would change my view.

About this, I've looked around and I can't seem to find the reference that mentioned this.  Sorry about that, I probably shouldn't mention quotes if I can't find them or strongly remember what they said.

As a side note, what would a Drab be like on another planet?  Would they just be like everyone else?  On Nalthis, Drabs are stigmatized because they don't have Breath, unlike everyone else, but on other planets, no one has Breath, as the WoB at the beginning of this post mentions, so would Drabs just be normal people?

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27 minutes ago, Llarimar said:

This is very helpful - I've been wondering about this.  I just want to clarify, even though I know I'm basically just restating the WoB.

       1.  People from Nalthis have Breath, and they can receive Breath from other people.

       2.  People from Nalthis with extra Breath can use it for Awakening.

       3.  Non-Nalthians do not have Breath, but they can receive Breath from Nalthians who do.

       4.  If a non-Nalthian receives extra Breath, they cannot use it for Awakening.

And with regards to color:

5.  A Nalthian with Breath uses color drain as a catalyst to fuel their Awakening.

 

Correction.  If a non-Nalthian receives extra Breath, they CAN use it for Awakening.  They just don't have that first Breath that everyone on Nalthis is born with.  Everyone has innate Investiture.  The Nalthians, thanks to Endowment, just have a means of using that innate Investiture.  Non-Nalthians can't use their innate Investiture that way, but if they receive Breath, they can then use it to Awaken.  Hoid is able to use the Breath he gained to Awaken.  This also answers your question about Drabs.  They've lost most of their innate investiture and are at a lower level than non-Nalthians. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/2-jordancon-2016/#e182

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Questioner

In the last panel we talked a lot about people from different planets using magic systems on other planets, one of the things I've been thinking about, we've been thinking about, talking about Breath, and people being born with Breath, is that something specific to Nalthis or do, technically, other people on other planets have a Breath as well?

Brandon Sanderson

Good question and that is a Nalthian thing. Now, everyone in the cosmere to an extent has Investiture, the Nalthian Breath is part what everyone has and then a little extra, plus the ability to share it around. So a person who gives up their Breath on Nalthis is actually going below what a normal person has. But a normal person on Nalthis has more than somebody-- So if you were for instance to pick a world like Sixth of the Dusk, where there's not a Shard in residence, and you compared them to a Nalthian, Nalthian has an Investiture advantage over them. When they've given up their Breath, they have an Investiture disadvantage.

Bystander

So we're not Drabs?

Brandon Sanderson

So we're not Drabs. That's exactly it. We're not Drabs.

Also, Brandon has said that metals themselves aren't invested or investiture (except the god-metals).  Just like gems aren't invested or investiture, by themselves.  Following that reasoning, I don't think that color or reflected light needs to be of Endowment to be a fuel for Awakening.  The catalysts are not investiture, and have no particular origin requirement.

 

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Questioner

Mistborn travels to Roshar, what does he or she use to get Invested?

Brandon Sanderson

*pause* So. *pause* I think I've talked about this before on the 17th Shard, but I'm not 100% sure and so I don't want to anything right now, not knowing what I've said. But you can look it up. You can ask Peter. Hey Peter, have I talked about someone using-- Have I ever in an interview before talked about using metals... A Mistborn travels to Roshar and uses the metals there?

Peter Ahlstrom

I think that you have said that they could do it.

Brandon Sanderson

I said it.  Okay, so the thing about the metals you have to understand is the metals are a key, the metals are not magical themselves, except for specific ones. If I've already said that I can tell you, go to Roshar and you could use the metals that are there to power your Allomancy because the difference is in your soul and you're actually drawing directly from Preservation. Remember that on the Spiritual Realm, this is the big tidbit--they're listening. On the Spiritual Realm time, distance, and space are irrelevant. It's a place where time and space are compounded in one. So anything that exists on the Spiritual Realm, space doesn't matter for it.

 

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5 minutes ago, Calderis said:

They can use breath they receive to awaken. 

The innate investiture they are born with cannot be used to awaken. 

Oh, okay, that makes more sense (as well as the @RShara correction above).  I was a bit confused when I thought that non-Nalthians could receive Breath, but then not use it.  This also makes more sense with the WoB that @The One Who Connects posted about how Breath was meant to be a universal magic system anyone could use.  

Edited by Llarimar
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I appreciate the WoB @RShara posted above about Drabs.  When they give up their Breath, they give up their base Investiture, which everyone has, and then their extra Investiture as well, specific to Nalthians, so that they're at an Investiture disadvantage to normal humans. 

16 minutes ago, RShara said:

Also, Brandon has said that metals themselves aren't invested or investiture (except the god-metals).  Just like gems aren't invested or investiture, by themselves.  Following that reasoning, I don't think that color or reflected light needs to be of Endowment to be a fuel for Awakening.  The catalysts are not investiture, and have no particular origin requirement.

And regarding this, I think I might just be getting some terminologies wrong.  I think what I'm trying to say is that:

Metals = Allomancy.  Metal is everywhere, so Scadrians can use Allomancy everywhere.

Color/reflected light = Awakening.  Color is everywhere, and so Nalthians are able to use Awakening everywhere. 

I don't think that metal or color is Invested, but I am trying to relate them because they are both catalysts.  I am sort of looking for an explanation for why color is a catalyst - it's just confusing to me, because color is much more abstract than something like metal.  And yes, I agree that color is not "of" Endowment, because metal is not "of" Preservation - these are substances that exist independent of the Investiture that uses them.  If Preservation didn't exist, there would still be metal, and the same goes with Endowment and color.

Maybe I need to research more about what a "catalyst" is and how exactly it works.  I really liked the WoB that was posted earlier by @Calderis about how different metals are like different Play-Doh filters.  I'm not sure if that's the same thing as a "catalyst," but it makes sense to me if light/color is sort of like a "filter" that activates Investiture in a specific way (coupled with Breath).

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8 minutes ago, Llarimar said:

I appreciate the WoB @RShara posted above about Drabs.  When they give up their Breath, they give up their base Investiture, which everyone has, and then their extra Investiture as well, specific to Nalthians, so that they're at an Investiture disadvantage to normal humans. 

And regarding this, I think I might just be getting some terminologies wrong.  I think what I'm trying to say is that:

Metals = Allomancy.  Metal is everywhere, so Scadrians can use Allomancy everywhere.

Color/reflected light = Awakening.  Color is everywhere, and so Nalthians are able to use Awakening everywhere. 

I don't think that metal or color is Invested, but I am trying to relate them because they are both catalysts.  I am sort of looking for an explanation for why color is a catalyst - it's just confusing to me, because color is much more abstract than something like metal.  And yes, I agree that color is not "of" Endowment, because metal is not "of" Preservation - these are substances that exist independent of the Investiture that uses them.  If Preservation didn't exist, there would still be metal, and the same goes with Endowment and color.

Maybe I need to research more about what a "catalyst" is and how exactly it works.  I really liked the WoB that was posted earlier by @Calderis about how different metals are like different Play-Doh filters.  I'm not sure if that's the same thing as a "catalyst," but it makes sense to me if light/color is sort of like a "filter" that activates Investiture in a specific way (coupled with Breath).

Brandon hasn't really clarified all of what catalyst means, so it's understandable to be confused.  I suspect we'll find out more eventually.  We've still only have something like half? or a third? of the Cosmere written, so there's a LOT that still needs explanation.

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@Llarimar, the thing with Awakening is that the breath isn't consumed, but color is. The breath animates the object, but the amount is unchanged and can be reclaimed. Color is consumed, and that's why many people call it the "fuel" of Awakening, with the Breath being more akin to the engine.

And Brandon's use of the word Catalyst for metals is weird, because in the real world, a Catalyst is something that facilitates a chemical reaction without being consumed, which is not at all what the metal does. The filter comparison is far more fitting. 

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1 hour ago, Calderis said:

@Llarimar, the thing with Awakening is that the breath isn't consumed, but color is. The breath animates the object, but the amount is unchanged and can be reclaimed. Color is consumed, and that's why many people call it the "fuel" of Awakening, with the Breath being more akin to the engine.

And Brandon's use of the word Catalyst for metals is weird, because in the real world, a Catalyst is something that facilitates a chemical reaction without being consumed, which is not at all what the metal does. The filter comparison is far more fitting.

I think the more appropriate term would be chemical reagent, something that is required for a reaction to occur but that is consumed in the process of that reaction. Here is the breakdown:

Awakening = Breath (stored investiture)+color(chemical reactant) = magical effect
Allomancy = Lerasium in SpiritWeb(stored investiture)+metal(chemical reactant) = magical effect
Sand Mastery = Infused sand microbes(stored investiture) + water(chemical reactant) = magical effect

The thing of note for all of these systems is that once the reagent is gone the reaction, or magical effect, can no longer occur.

The thing that is different from these systems than what we find on Roshar is that Stormlight needs no chemical reagent to function. This suggests to me that Stormlight is inherently in a higher energy state. A real world analogy would be that Stormlight is like electricity flowing through a power line, it needs a channel (or circuit) to direct the energy to do work. The other systems are like batteries that require an electrolyte to create an energy differential to release the stored energy of the system.

@Confused I love your Cosmere Magic Theory but I think it suffers from the inappropriate use by Brandon of the term catalyst, I think Brandon was using it in the colloquial non-technical sense as something that is necessary to start a reaction. I think the better term (and more useful) would be reactant, this is a specific term that implies that the so-called reactant is consumed in the reaction. This fits the data (as far as I can tell at least) better than the term catalyst, which as Calderis pointed out, does imply that it is not consumed by the resulting reaction.

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On 1/19/2018 at 4:19 PM, Llarimar said:

What do you think would be the most powerful ability to a Worldhopper?  Do you agree that it would be Awakening?

It's been mentioned a few times on this thread tangentially, but the most powerful "ability" in my opinion would be Hemalurgy.  I put "ability" in quotes because it isn't an ability acquired by merit or destiny or genetics or whatnot, but what we know about it suggests there is a science to putting it to use.  An expert in this skill would be able to harvest abilities from people on other worlds (albeit with a bit of trial and error), which allows for a large repertoire of magics available to them and likely a "hack" around some of the limitations of planet-specific powers.  To throw an idea out there, if my imagined Hemalurgist were to hop to Nalthis, they could spike a Nalthian to take their ability to Awaken (if only Nalthians can Awaken, which I know is contentious - I mean this only as an illustration).  

Some powers would be surely be harder to steal than others and some may be near-impossible, but I can easily see a villainous world-hopper being a particularly skilled Hemalurgist with a lust for new powers.  

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8 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Awakening = Breath (stored investiture)+color(chemical reactant) = magical effect
Allomancy = Lerasium in SpiritWeb(stored investiture)+metal(chemical reactant) = magical effect
Sand Mastery = Infused sand microbes(stored investiture) + water(chemical reactant) = magical effect

I like this a lot, it helps me understand the fuzzy similarities between these magic systems that have been confusing me.  And thanks for the replacement of "catalyst" with "chemical reactant," it makes a lot more sense. 

7 hours ago, RShara said:

Maybe the bond is the key and stormlight is the fuel?

This seems possible, since the stormlight is "used up," like all of the other chemical reactants listed above.  I am not sure if the "bond" could be considered Stored Investiture in the same way as Breath or Infused sand - perhaps it is a combination of the bond and the oaths, which create a sort of electric synergy between the Radiant and the spren, a stored Investiture that can only be unlocked by drawing stormlight as a reactant.  

And just to add another to the list, would this work?

AonDor = The power of Dominion in the Cognitive Realm (stored Investiture) + Drawing the Aons precisely (chemical reactant) = magical effect

I think this example is useful because it much more clearly depicts how the chemical reactant unlocks or loosens the magical effect, which was previously just potential energy unable to escape.  I am not sure what is "used up" in this case - perhaps since AonDor resides primarily in the Cognitive Realm, nothing needs to be "used up" in order to use it - the Aons just need to be drawn to release the power from one Realm into another.  I am also not sure how this relates to being an Elantrian - perhaps Elantrians are sort of like cognitive shadows, like the Returned in Warbreaker, who "died" and then came back to life thanks to Investiture, and because of that are closer to the Cognitive Realm and are able to unlock the power residing there (although... I'm sure the situation in Elantris is very different from in Warbreaker).  

 

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11 minutes ago, Llarimar said:

I like this a lot, it helps me understand the fuzzy similarities between these magic systems that have been confusing me.  And thanks for the replacement of "catalyst" with "chemical reactant," it makes a lot more sense. 

This seems possible, since the stormlight is "used up," like all of the other chemical reactants listed above.  I am not sure if the "bond" could be considered Stored Investiture in the same way as Breath or Infused sand - perhaps it is a combination of the bond and the oaths, which create a sort of electric synergy between the Radiant and the spren, a stored Investiture that can only be unlocked by drawing stormlight as a reactant.  

And just to add another to the list, would this work?

AonDor = The power of Dominion in the Cognitive Realm (stored Investiture) + Drawing the Aons precisely (chemical reactant) = magical effect

I think this example is useful because it much more clearly depicts how the chemical reactant unlocks or loosens the magical effect, which was previously just potential energy unable to escape.  I am not sure what is "used up" in this case - perhaps since AonDor resides primarily in the Cognitive Realm, nothing needs to be "used up" in order to use it - the Aons just need to be drawn to release the power from one Realm into another.  I am also not sure how this relates to being an Elantrian - perhaps Elantrians are sort of like cognitive shadows, like the Returned in Warbreaker, who "died" and then came back to life thanks to Investiture, and because of that are closer to the Cognitive Realm and are able to unlock the power residing there (although... I'm sure the situation in Elantris is very different from in Warbreaker).  

 

I'm answering mainly to test out this new button

Quote

Khyrindor

You've said that Returned count as Cognitive shadows "stapled" back into their bodies, and that the Heralds are at least similar. Would I be right in assuming that Elantrians could be considered as Cognitive Shadows as well, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Brandon Sanderson

Elantrians are something different. They don't actually "die" to be created.

Recognize that the term cognitive shadow is an in-cosmere theory, which I'm not going to comment on as the creator of the setting. The theory is this:

Investiture seeks sapience. It looks for someone to control it or, in some instances, spontaneously adopts personality.

A mind (cognitive aspect of a person) can become infused with Investiture. This acts a little like minerals with petrified wood, replacing the mind and personality with investiture.

When the actual person dies, this investiture imprint remains behind. A copy of the soul, but not the actual soul.

Others disagree with this, and think the soul itself persists. Still others reject the theory in its entirety.

linkhyrule5

Huh.

... Kandra are almost literally stapled to their bodies with Hemalurgy - would they count as such, to the in-setting scholars?

Brandon Sanderson

No, they wouldn't. They are beings who have had their souls twisted by Hemalurgy--the soul never left, it's just been messed up. Someone else who has a soul stapled to a body with Hemalurgy would count though.

source

@Mestiv IS AMAZING!

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4 hours ago, Llarimar said:

AonDor = The power of Dominion in the Cognitive Realm (stored Investiture) + Drawing the Aons precisely (chemical reactant) = magical effect

I think this example is useful because it much more clearly depicts how the chemical reactant unlocks or loosens the magical effect, which was previously just potential energy unable to escape.  I am not sure what is "used up" in this case - perhaps since AonDor resides primarily in the Cognitive Realm, nothing needs to be "used up" in order to use it - the Aons just need to be drawn to release the power from one Realm into another.  I am also not sure how this relates to being an Elantrian - perhaps Elantrians are sort of like cognitive shadows, like the Returned in Warbreaker, who "died" and then came back to life thanks to Investiture, and because of that are closer to the Cognitive Realm and are able to unlock the power residing there (although... I'm sure the situation in Elantris is very different from in Warbreaker).

I think it might be different this this, and more similar to how Preservation's Investiture works on Scadrial.

Elantrians have to be of Aonic descent, and they are selected by the Shaod. This implies that the Investiture is keyed to their Spirit Web, like Allomancers are keyed to Preservation's power through their spirit web.

I think that the Elantrian case is like Scadrain Allomancy in that the key to accessing Devotions Investiture (the Dor) is a genetic (or spirit web) based trait. But, like on Roshar, an Investiture reactant is not necessary to access this Investiture because the Dor is in a heightened energy state (it is kinetic, free investiture instead of stored investitue). So the drawing of Aons by an Elantrian to access the power of the Dor is just a cognitive channel that allows the Investiture to be directed by the Elantrian (similar to how a nahel-bond to a spren creates a cognitive channel for access to the kinetic, free investiture of Stormlight). The Dor can exist in this free, kinetic state because it is trapped somehow in the Cognitive Realm, so the Cognitive energy needed to release it is smaller due to the pressure of a higher energy state being forced into a lower energy state.

How I think this works on Roshar is that Kinect free investiture exists in the form of Stormlight, and it can exist in this kinetic, more readily usable form because it is contained within another form of stored Investiture, namely the gems. This WoB (spoilered below) says that gemhearts are Investiure that has leaked into the Physical Realm:

Spoiler

Overlord Jebus [PENDING REVIEW]

So you've previously described gemhearts as Investiture leaking into the Physical Realm in a similar kind of process to atium. Now atium had a way of-- the Investiture used in the creation of it-- of returning back to the kind of background pool of Investiture on Scadrial. Is there a way of the Investiture used in the creation of gemhearts to return to the Roshar Investiture pool?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes.

Overlord Jebus [PENDING REVIEW]

There is? Have we had any hints of it at all?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes.

source

The fact that Stormlight is housed in another form of stored Investiture allows it to exist in a higher energy state and because it doesn't have to be stored like Endowments investiture in Breath, Autonomy's Investiture in Sand microbes, or Preservation's Investiture in the Spirit Web, this allows the surgebinder to use this stormlight Investiture by using the Nahel-bond of their spren as a cognitive channel to direct the Kinetic Energy of the Stormlight.

This is not a cannon explanation (I haven't seen any WoB's that directly contradict it, but I am not the most well read on WoBs), but to me it makes the most sense of any of the models that I have thought about or seen. If there are WoBs that prove this untrue I will redact and revise this, but I personally like the Potential Energy model of Investiture, where Spiritual Energy has the highest Potential energy, Cognitive Energy is also Spiritual Energy but in a lower energy state, and Physical Matter is Spiritual Energy that exists with zero potential energy.

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@hoiditthroughthegrapevine I would fully agree if Stormlight weren't able to be housed in any gem, including synthetic gemstones.

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PhantomMonstrosity

Do synthetic gemstones work in fabrials too?

Brandon Sanderson

Synthetic gemstones should work.  It's a combination of color and chemical structure that's important. Just like metals from off Scadrial would work for an Allomancer, synthetic gemstones should work.

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22 hours ago, Llarimar said:

I am not sure if the "bond" could be considered Stored Investiture in the same way as Breath or Infused sand

True, but Grapevine had a third example: "Allomancy = Lerasium in SpiritWeb(stored investiture)+metal(chemical reactant) = magical effect"

The Spren Bond literally suffuses the soul with Investiture.

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Brandon Sanderson

A full-blown Radiant can heal almost anything (cut from a Shardblade included) because of the way the magic works--their soul is literally bonded to investiture, and it suffuses them in such a way that even the soul is very resilient to damage.

I think that would qualify in a (somewhat)similar way to what Lerasium does to the Spiritweb in Grapevine's example.

On 1/21/2018 at 10:34 PM, Llarimar said:

perhaps color can also be important in other it ways, such as indicating the properties of a gemstone for Soulcasting (I had previously assumed that certain gemstones were used for Soulcasting because of their mineral or elemental composition, rather than just because of their color).

The color is of import for Fabrials, not that we have a solid reason for the "why color?" question.

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Questioner
If an Awakener were to go to Roshar and were to bleed the color from a gem would that gem still be able to store Stormlight?

Brandon Sanderson
Bleed the color from a gem… Um ye-ye-ye-yeah. This would interfere with its function on Roshar. It would probably still be able to hold Stormlight…

Questioner
Might not be able to be used for Soulcasting?

Brandon Sanderson
Yea-- It's going to… You know what no it would just change it. It would just bleed the color from it and turn it into a dusty quartz or something like that. That's probably what it would end up with, a dusty quartz. Because the molecular structure doesn't matter as much as the color for Roshar. So yeah you would probably still be able to hold Stormlight because a diamond can but I don't know, quartz might cut it. You'd probably end up with something that's not going to work so well.

Questioner
What about a fabrial that needs a specific--

Brandon Sanderson
Yeah a specific-- A ruby wouldn't work any more, and it would let go whatever is captured inside.

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