opinion [OB] What topic do you feel has been discussed to death?

[Rainier]

1 hour ago, Dreamstorm said:

Here, anything which discusses a romantic relationship is considered shipping, as some people seem to think Brandon plots and foreshadows every aspect of his books besides romantic relationships

Not-so-subtle dig. I'm all over the A/S/K thread but don't call me a shipper. The clues are either there and mean something or they aren't and they don't. It's either foreshadowing or not, and that has very little to do with me wanting one thing or another.

Frankly I think that shipping is a slur used to diminish people who talk about it, as if we can talk about magical theories but not personal ones.

[Greywatch]

4 minutes ago, Rainier said:

Frankly I think that shipping is a slur used to diminish people who talk about it, as if we can talk about magical theories but not personal ones.

Shipping is actually the word for it, having been the word for it since the x-files. Whatever the opinion of people who don't like it, it's definitely not a slur.

[+Ravioli]

7 minutes ago, Greywatch said:

Shipping is actually the word for it, having been the word for it since the x-files. Whatever the opinion of people who don't like it, it's definitely not a slur.

Yeah, it's just a portmanteau of "relationshipping." Also it makes it cool to make nautical puns. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Ravioli said:

Or when someone just posts something and says "Discuss."

I so much agree. This is something, that annoys me in general. Give me something to argue about man!

[Obvcop]

On 17/01/2018 at 11:29 PM, thegatorgirl00 said:

The thing that bothers me more is the opposite of this. How could this character have possibly become a Radiant when we don't know of some terrible tragedy in their past. 

Also, Shallan can't possibly be on her fourth ideal because she hasn't manifested plate yet. People make that argument with other characters like Jasnah too, but it bothers me most with Shallan since we actually have a WoB on her. 

Wait, there was a WOB that confirmed shallen has said her 4th ideal?

You don't happen to have a link do you?

It adds a ton more sense to the scenes with Radiant, wasn't there a scene where someone sees Radiant as the real shallan?

[digitalbusker]

8 minutes ago, Rainier said:

Frankly I think that shipping is a slur used to diminish people who talk about it, as if we can talk about magical theories but not personal ones.

It certainly can be used dismissively. I'm not sure what else we'd call it at this point, though.

It seems like you're drawing a distinction between "let's discuss this relationship (which might be textual, subtextual, hypothetical, or even contratextual) with an eye towards identifying what we like/dislike about it and/or comparing it to other relationships" and "let's look in the books for evidence foreshadowing how relationships will develop later on". Calling the first one "shipping" but not the second.

I don't think the line is all that bright, on a thread by thread basis or even post by post. So I don't think it's likely that a taxonomy that differentiates between them is likely to catch on, but you do you.

As for me and my house, I can tell you that the things that keep me out of relationship speculation threads will cause me to nope out of a Realmatic theory thread just as fast. (Imagine if the Willshaper resonance thread were as long and heated as ASK.)

@Ravioli, portmanteau is not the word you want there. "Shortening" or "abbreviation", maybe.

[Steeldancer]

tganchero (paraphrased)

How many oaths can a Radiant swear?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There is an upper-limit/threshold to the number of oaths a Radiant may make. By the end of WoR, Shallan was a step higher than Kaladin.

source

[+Ravioli]

4 minutes ago, digitalbusker said:

It certainly can be used dismissively. I'm not sure what else we'd call it at this point, though.

It seems like you're drawing a distinction between "let's discuss this relationship (which might be textual, subtextual, hypothetical, or even contratextual) with an eye towards identifying what we like/dislike about it and/or comparing it to other relationships" and "let's look in the books for evidence foreshadowing how relationships will develop later on". Calling the first one "shipping" but not the second.

I don't think the line is all that bright, on a thread by thread basis or even post by post. So I don't think it's likely that a taxonomy that differentiates between them is likely to catch on, but you do you.

As for me and my house, I can tell you that the things that keep me out of relationship speculation threads will cause me to nope out of a Realmatic theory thread just as fast. (Imagine if the Willshaper resonance thread were as long and heated as ASK.)

@Ravioli, portmanteau is not the word you want there. "Shortening" or "abbreviation", maybe.

Ahh you're right, it's an abbreviation of the portmanteau "relationshipping" thanks

[Obvcop]

Just now, Steeldancer said:

tganchero (paraphrased)

How many oaths can a Radiant swear?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There is an upper-limit/threshold to the number of oaths a Radiant may make. By the end of WoR, Shallan was a step higher than Kaladin.

source

Storms yeah, thats pretty awsome then.

My only question would be did she swear her fourth ideal during the book? I assume she needed her third ideal for the blade in the chasm with kaladin and her chapters didn't mention anything about summoning plate, would it have been after the chasm being flooded?

[Calderis]

2 minutes ago, Obvcop said:

Storms yeah, thats pretty awsome then.

My only question would be did she swear her fourth ideal during the book? I assume she needed her third ideal for the blade in the chasm with kaladin and her chapters didn't mention anything about summoning plate, would it have been after the chasm being flooded?

We saw all of her truths happen in  book. First was "I am terrified." with the response "this is true" and queue Shadesmar. 

Then "I am a murderer." for her dad, and "I killed my mother" 

[digitalbusker]

2 minutes ago, Ravioli said:

Ahh you're right, it's an abbreviation of the portmanteau "relationshipping" thanks

Does everybody see me not quibbling about whether "relationship" + "ing" counts as a portmanteau? I think I've grown.

 

[+Ravioli]

2 minutes ago, digitalbusker said:

Does everybody see me not quibbling about whether "relationship" + "ing" counts as a portmanteau? I think I've grown.

 

I was thinking more relationship and shipping

[The Sovereign]

On 1/17/2018 at 1:36 PM, RShara said:

That RShara is so rude that way.

 

One of my pet peeves is Timbre=Eshonai.  No.  No no no and NO

Agreed, I'd take it a step further with anything related to Eshonai isn't dead...

[digitalbusker]

28 minutes ago, Ravioli said:

I was thinking more relationship and shipping

It's a recursive portmanteau now? I need to lie down.

[Obvcop]

1 hour ago, The Sovereign said:

Agreed, I'd take it a step further with anything related to Eshonai isn't dead...

Yeah I think this one needs to die as well, I hope more people don't waste future brandon questions with this.

[Rainier]

3 hours ago, Greywatch said:

Shipping is actually the word for it, having been the word for it since the x-files.

Right, because people were rooting for Mulder and Scully to get in a relationship despite no evidence that they would, or were interested. They would then imagine what their relationship would be like. It's closer to fan-fiction than anything else, which can be another dirty word to some people. That's the "slur" I was referring to.

I wouldn't call it shipping until you're creating new, non-canonical content, specifically making stuff up about a relationship that doesn't exist in the primary medium. It's the difference between the creator's initiative and the fandom's initiative, or at least that's how I've understood it, and that's the distinction I was trying to make.

2 hours ago, digitalbusker said:

As for me and my house, I can tell you that the things that keep me out of relationship speculation threads will cause me to nope out of a Realmatic theory thread just as fast. (Imagine if the Willshaper resonance thread were as long and heated as ASK.)

I hope that the distinction still holds: when the fans are creating stuff out of whole cloth, it's fan-fic, whether it's about a character's relationship or the mechanics of the world. It's not about getting heated, it's about inserting yourself into the narrative and ultimately creating a narrative for yourself where none existed before.

[Greywatch]

1 minute ago, Rainier said:

Right, because people were rooting for Mulder and Scully to get in a relationship despite no evidence that they would, or were interested. They would then imagine what their relationship would be like. It's closer to fan-fiction than anything else, which can be another dirty word to some people. That's the "slur" I was referring to.

I wouldn't call it shipping until you're creating new, non-canonical content, specifically making stuff up about a relationship that doesn't exist in the primary medium. It's the difference between the creator's initiative and the fandom's initiative, or at least that's how I've understood it, and that's the distinction I was trying to make.

I hope that the distinction still holds: when the fans are creating stuff out of whole cloth, it's fan-fic, whether it's about a character's relationship or the mechanics of the world. It's not about getting heated, it's about inserting yourself into the narrative and ultimately creating a narrative for yourself where none existed before.

That's certainly a definition but not the only one. In other parts of the internet, shipping is anything that falls under being really enthusiastic about a fictional ship. It's not a slur, even if someone says the words with disgust. I get that the reaction to it around this parts feels really not great, but slurs really are reserved for words/phrases that are racist, homophobic, misogynist, etc. 

[Rainier]

5 minutes ago, Greywatch said:

I get that the reaction to it around this parts feels really not great, but slurs really are reserved for words/phrases that are racist, homophobic, misogynist, etc. 

I love arguing semantics, so I'll just say that I was using it exactly as I meant it:

Quote

noun

1. 1.

   an insinuation or allegation about someone that is likely to insult them or damage their reputation.

   "the comments were a slur on the staff"

   synonyms:

   insult, slight, slander, slanderous statement, aspersion, smear, allegation; informalsmack talk "a gross slur"

The way I see the word being used: it's a insinuation that is likely to damage their representation. It's not exactly a compliment to call someone a shipper.

8 minutes ago, Greywatch said:

That's certainly a definition but not the only one. In other parts of the internet, shipping is anything that falls under being really enthusiastic about a fictional ship.

Back to arguing semantics, which I appreciate and really was the point of my first post. I wanted to highlight a distinction I see in the way the word is used. I admit my own bias, but the distinction is one of evidence and wishful thinking. The less of the former and the more of the latter, the closer you are to earning the slur of shipper.

[Storms!]

How about we add "the exact meaning of shipping" to the list? 

[Greywatch]

1 hour ago, Rainier said:

The way I see the word being used: it's a insinuation that is likely to damage their representation. It's not exactly a compliment to call someone a shipper.

Back to arguing semantics, which I appreciate and really was the point of my first post. I wanted to highlight a distinction I see in the way the word is used. I admit my own bias, but the distinction is one of evidence and wishful thinking. The less of the former and the more of the latter, the closer you are to earning the slur of shipper.

To be pedantic back, it's not a compliment only here, on this board, as we might possibly perceive the reaction to one specific thread. It is not an insult in other parts of the fandom; just a statement about whether or not like they like to enthuse about fictional relationships. I am also reacting with my experience, coming from a place in fandom where it's as unremarkable as saying that you prefer to wear shoes when you go out, and it encompasses everything from writing novel-length stories and/or dissertations about a fictional pairing all the way to thinking "hey, they're really good together!" It's not a dirty word everywhere, and even here not everyone will treat it that way. Avoiding the label because you truly feel it's inaccurate is one thing; avoiding it because the label of shipper is not a good one on 17S is kind of a whole other animal entirely.

Edit: Funny, Storms!

[Steeldancer]

Well, this topic does not just identify OB, so let's identify another one- Shards and colors and numbers. 

I think we are all done with all such crackpot theories

[Chaos]

2 hours ago, Rainier said:

Back to arguing semantics, which I appreciate and really was the point of my first post. I wanted to highlight a distinction I see in the way the word is used. I admit my own bias, but the distinction is one of evidence and wishful thinking. The less of the former and the more of the latter, the closer you are to earning the slur of shipper.

Well, there are definitely quite a few people here who would identify themselves as shippers, and that's totally fine. It's also totally fine if someone doesn't want to be referred to as that.

Shippers are welcome here. Character discussion and relationship discussion is valuable. If people don't like to discuss this stuff (or "shipping" threads) that's also fine, but here, I won't allow the word shippers to be a pejorative, and I shall smite people who do use it as such!

Important edit: Obviously, I have no control over the rest of the internet  

Edited January 23, 2018 by Chaos
Added a line

[thegatorgirl00]

6 hours ago, Obvcop said:

It adds a ton more sense to the scenes with Radiant, wasn't there a scene where someone sees Radiant as the real shallan?

Are you referring to this scene at the Battle of Theylen City?

Quote

Another hand took Shallan’s on the right. Radiant, in glowing garnet Shardplate, tall, with braided hair.

And later. 

Quote

“Here,” Radiant said, tired, stumbling to her feet. She was the one Jasnah could feel. 

If you saw these quotes posted in another thread, it was probably by me. 

[Yezrien]

Quote

 

Hi! I'm new to the forums and I have this cool super original theory. I think Adonalsium is going to be un-shattered or reborn or something. I bet Hoid has something to do with it.

 

That one never gets old.

[RShara]

15 hours ago, thegatorgirl00 said:

Are you referring to this scene at the Battle of Theylen City?

And later. 

If you saw these quotes posted in another thread, it was probably by me. 

My objection to that is that no one seems surprised or comments on her wearing actual Shardplate.  Also, the Shardplate in the previous scene was an illusion.