kais Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 Please abbreviate all proper nouns. This is a rough draft, so apologies. L for language. This is the first half of the short, so you won't have the complete arc. Hopefully that won't be too irritating! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandamon Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 Just re-read over your comments above, and I was surprised this was only half. It works well to me as a complete arc, for a short story. We know where Y ends up, and this gives me enough information to see how he gets there. I didn't have many issues with this, in fact. It's a lot of background information, but it's also got a hook in the heist/rebuilding plotline, which is enough to keep my attention. I'm trying to also read this as disassociated from the books, and I think it works by itself without any other information, simply because we're starting on Earth rather than in space, and you don't really have to explain the groundwork more than "aliens made peace happen." Of course if I hadn't read the books, then I might want to have more of this story. That does leave me with one question though--how did the Ris. get everyone on Earth to stop fighting? Is that going to be explained, or will it be a mystery forever? Notes while reading: pg 6: ok, got an explanations for the lack of shoes finally, though that seems prone to problems. pg 8: Lol--love the explanation for the name of the ship. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Hossenlopp Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 Page 1: Grand theft spaceship? I'm in. Also humor. Page 2: World building by whiny rant. I like it. It's quick. Irreverent view of cultures that I'm not familiar with. Dig that. There's enough opinionated swearing in the narration so far that I'm wondering why this isn't in first person VP. Page 3: A big gun duct taped onto a vessel that predates known conflicts? Historical secrets and government cover ups? I'm digging this. The narrative voice is keeping my attention Page 4: Aliens have assimilated into the workplace, and just like in the movie "Ted" amazing stuff becomes boring way too quick. Endangered trees are part of the heist, but the protag justifies it to soothe his conscience, keeping him likable. Second mention of that C-T tech. I'm expecting more description of it soon Page 6: The heist falls apart right away. The protag doesn't freak out at all. He's just surly about it. Like a vending machine that keeps giving my dollar back. I' like to be a bit more scared for him here. Page 7: "Criminal today or..." So he's not a hardened career criminal? This whole ordeal seems like an ordinary Tuesday to him. This dude is seriously jaded. “To me, Youth Journey, this time of directed internship and globalization, if you will, of the System’s young people has only the noblest of intentions." This was pretty clunky to read. When I read it aloud I sound like Hedonism Bot from Futurama. At this point I don't know who is speaking Ah. It's the protag. Big change in voice makes sense now that I know he's role playing a bit. The -- made me think this was a scene change, maybe a POV change. Page 9: I thought "hir" was a typo until I saw xe. Is this a single gender species? If so, "xe" is more obvious and attention getting. Maybe find a way to make it the first pronoun we see for them "Xe rubbed at hir neck slits." now that looks intentional! Page 10: It's a cookbook! "To Serve Man" is a cookbook! So these sweet aliens pacified humanity somehow, but why? I'm interested to find out. I also want to see Y's plans and goal fall apart at every turn as he get sucked into alien conspiracies and a big amazing heist to save the world at the end. Overall I like the voice, but Y doesn't seem very motivated in any real direction. We know what he doesn't like, because he's cantankerous guy. But we don't really know what he wants aside from getting paid off for illicit lumber. He seems to want that about as much as a taxi driver wants to pick up his next fare. Is this a life changing amount of money, or just enough to get off world? I'll look forward to seeing what Y is up to next week 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Hossenlopp Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 I just read Mandamon's comments. I really thought this was a stand alone first chapter. The shoeless thing made sense to me as a fashion trend. Fashion usually tries to communicate that you're wealthy (even when you're clearly not). What's more opulent than saying "My entire environment is so perfectly manicured that I have no need for foot protection" Also, you said rough, so I said nothing about commas and dropped words and stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinski Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 Comments Opening paragraph a bit wordy. Some streamlining would be good. I like the opening point though. “rank smell of oil” – the oil itself is just oil, Y brings the interpretation that makes it rank. “with a non-practicing family” “to install the components hidden under his cleaning kit” – don’t understand. “…twelve years ago” – this is rather maid-and-butler; the curator must know as well as Y when the aliens arrived, so why would he bother telling her, unless just to get the information over to the reader? “not ‘Donahue,’ and not ‘Meg,’” – lol “the last parts he needed to remove” “See you in three days” – how’s he going to do that if there are three days of work left; that leaves no time for travel? “If he could manage to shove a few chairs into the cramped cockpit, it’d be a small miracle” – See, I never got as good an impression of the Mercy from reading the original story. I seem to remember was talked about blocking and setting a lot. “Now what? It still has to mostly look like the original, or if the curator does a spot inspection, she’ll flip her rust” – no way he says this out loud, surely. He’s on his own. And why would he explain it so clearly to him, out loud. I don’t buy the whole thing about shoes. To me, it’s ridiculous; it’s a backward step (pun intended). Humans need footwear to function efficiently in some situations, and their performance will be inadequate in many occupations. Makes no sense. “Criminal today, or criminal tomorrow?” – We touched on Y personal stuff, and I was interested to hear more of about his background, but it was just a tangential point then well away, to be left with odd hints, but no knowledge of his motivations. “metal off of Earth” – ‘of’ is completely redundant here. Have you ever read this grammatical construction in published fiction? Sounds really ugly, the repletion of the same sound, serving no function. “Sure, sure” – comma. “a smile on my face and cockpit seat for a fresh young face” – repetition of ‘face’. “No, no.” – comma “in danger of vomiting in his mouth” – where else would he vomit? “wondering if the species wore pants” – lol “your résumé” – otherwise, it’s just resume, as in to recommence. “then clacked claws together” – R’s have claws?! I thought they had fingers? “I’ve got your location off the com signal” – The grammar here seems inconsistent with most of the rest of the R’s speech; inelegant and rather unsophisticated. “from what it sounded like” – I think ‘from the sound of it’ is smoother, cleaner and clearer. Fair enough. I’m engaged and interested in the sting that Y is trying to bring about. As an arc for a story in a collection of stories, it’s fine, and obviously is a key moment in the series, so all good. I have liked more of Y’s background instead of just hints; that was a bit frustrating. Maybe better, on balance, than a lengthy side shoot. I'm on for the next part. <R> 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinski Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 8 hours ago, Chuck Hossenlopp said: The shoeless thing made sense to me as a fashion trend. Fashion usually tries to communicate that you're wealthy (even when you're clearly not). What's more opulent than saying "My entire environment is so perfectly manicured that I have no need for foot protection" Yes, but it's a false premise, because the statement is that no one wears shoes, whereas 99% of humanity will not be rich enough to be able to not go out to work. Would you let a dentist wearing no shoes work on you? Would you dine in a restaurant where none of the staff wore shoes? Sports, construction, scientific research, bio-engineering, animal husbandry. I feel like I could go on and on presenting reasons why it makes not sense. How do you make a spacesuit air tight if there are no shoes? Also, it serves no purpose at all; so why is it there? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Hossenlopp Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 A barefoot service industry wouldn't bother me. Dentists and wait staff would still wash their hands. As for those other professions, let's just assume those haven't been automated out of existence or relegated to the unwashed shoe-wearing under class. Shoes in this society would become like work gloves. Worn only for a specific purpose and put away before doing anything in polite or casual society. Does this weird detail serve a purpose? These aliens have gifted humanity with world peace. Instantly. Humanity is comfortable and coddled. Like pets. Something is up. The aliens want us walking around with our pink bellies exposed. That's the purpose that I figured I could be wrong though 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinski Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 On 17/01/2018 at 5:32 PM, Chuck Hossenlopp said: The aliens want us walking around with our pink bellies exposed 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toomsta Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 As a short story, and granted it's only half of one, it doesn't quite work for me. I have no investment in Y, nor do I understand any of the pressures on him, or why a new life in the stars is of interest to him. Thinking of my favourite short stories, they all build a very sharp emotional investment really quickly. Some notes: - Wordy first paragraph, not a bad hook though, could be punchier - "He’d left Poland because %^$# communism," because statements like this are my absolute favourite kind of statement. I use them on a daily basis. Did we just become friends? - cedar trees? Oh right, this is the crazy universe were trees are a precious commodity? What a universe! - Yes it's rough, I know you said that, but yeah, @Robinski appears to have covered that. As you were. - Character is talking to himself, out loud. I'm sorry, but this is a pet-peeve. They do it in movies because verbalising thoughts is awkward (I'm look at you Dune). - I got the impression Y was already a criminal? He's not? Would like some of his past, how he knows so much about tech, alien tech, etc. - Instant world peace? Like two-minute noodles? I don't buy that for a second. You know, that guy looked at me funny, but hey, I won't punch him because those Aliens gifted us world peace. This needs a very good explanation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kais Posted January 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 On 1/16/2018 at 6:40 AM, Mandamon said: It works well to me as a complete arc, for a short story. Hrm, good to know. I wanted to have the back half to fill in his history with the Ris, but maybe it's not needed. Will see how the next submission goes. On 1/16/2018 at 6:40 AM, Mandamon said: how did the Ris. get everyone on Earth to stop fighting? Is that going to be explained, or will it be a mystery forever? It's supposed to be insinuated throughout the series that its the Ards doing it. I think I make a big call out to it in book three? Maybe I need to be more clear. I have an Ard cameo in the second half of this, so maybe that helps? I don't know. I'll go rethink. Thank you for reading, as always! On 1/16/2018 at 4:00 PM, Chuck Hossenlopp said: Like a vending machine that keeps giving my dollar back. I' like to be a bit more scared for him here. Okay so A) that is the best analogy ever. EVER. B). I'm...not sure how to up the stakes in this for new readers. I'm in between a rock and hard place here with not wanting to alienate new readers, but also knowing this is book four in a series, is a book of shorts meant to just be a fun sort of read, and that I can't mess with character personality too much. Where does the heist fall apart for you? Could you ID the page you lost tension? That might help me better address the issue. On 1/16/2018 at 4:00 PM, Chuck Hossenlopp said: This dude is seriously jaded. Yes, that was the vibe I was going for On 1/16/2018 at 4:00 PM, Chuck Hossenlopp said: The -- made me think this was a scene change, maybe a POV change. Hmm. Will try to streamline a bit. On 1/16/2018 at 4:00 PM, Chuck Hossenlopp said: Maybe find a way to make it the first pronoun we see for them They're a set, xe and hir, and have been used throughout the trilogy so they're pretty set. But yes, Ris are an agender species. On 1/16/2018 at 4:00 PM, Chuck Hossenlopp said: I'm interested to find out LOL. Well there are three books before this that go over it pretty well! On 1/16/2018 at 4:00 PM, Chuck Hossenlopp said: But we don't really know what he wants aside from getting paid off for illicit lumber. I'll try to bring his motivations out more. They're there, they're just buried. My fault. Thank you very much! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kais Posted January 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 On 1/17/2018 at 0:23 AM, Robinski said: Some streamlining would be good. check and check On 1/17/2018 at 0:23 AM, Robinski said: don’t understand. Hmm. A sentence appears to have mysteriously vanished. Thanks for catching that! On 1/17/2018 at 0:23 AM, Robinski said: unless just to get the information over to the reader? It's actually just placeholder timeline for me right now. I plan on deleting. That was why it was in yellow. On 1/17/2018 at 0:23 AM, Robinski said: that leaves no time for travel? Good catch! On 1/17/2018 at 0:23 AM, Robinski said: See, I never got as good an impression of the Mercy from reading the original story. I seem to remember was talked about blocking and setting a lot. I'm trying to be better with the ship in this short, since he's modding it out and the Buran would be completely useless as a tramp transport without heavy modification. Is it too out of place with how the first three books were? On 1/17/2018 at 0:23 AM, Robinski said: no way he says this out loud, surely Have edited On 1/17/2018 at 0:23 AM, Robinski said: To me, it’s ridiculous It was meant to be ridiculous, and mostly a running joke, so I'll call this a win On 1/17/2018 at 0:23 AM, Robinski said: but no knowledge of his motivations. Many people commented on this. I'll go back and bring it out more. On 1/17/2018 at 0:23 AM, Robinski said: R’s have claws?! I thought they had fingers? Late edit to book one. They have claws now... I think? I need to go reread book one On 1/17/2018 at 0:23 AM, Robinski said: The grammar here seems inconsistent with most of the rest of the R’s speech; inelegant and rather unsophisticated. Good catch. Will edit. On 1/17/2018 at 0:23 AM, Robinski said: I have liked more of Y’s background instead of just hints; that was a bit frustrating. Maybe better, on balance, than a lengthy side shoot. This is hard to balance. If I go too much into his backstory, I might have to turn this book from a book of shorts into a full blown prequel. Which I could do, but that might be overkill? My thought was that this chapter would be first in the book, then Ne's three chapters, then Nick's chapter. I might end up cutting Ne's middle chapter, too. Unsure at this point. Basically I need to finish writing the book and then I can figure out how to organize it and what needs cutting and what needs expanding. UGH writing! Thank you for the excellent comments! On 1/17/2018 at 0:30 AM, Robinski said: Also, it serves no purpose at all; so why is it there? Running gag? On 1/17/2018 at 9:32 AM, Chuck Hossenlopp said: Does this weird detail serve a purpose? These aliens have gifted humanity with world peace. Instantly. Humanity is comfortable and coddled. Like pets. Something is up. The aliens want us walking around with our pink bellies exposed. That's the purpose that I figured I mean, this is way better than anything I had come up with. I love this. Let's roll with this. In all honesty, it was a small thing in book one that enough people found amusing that I just ran with it. I look at it like I look at long hair. It's a pain in the butt, it serves no real purpose, it's highly unsanitary and dangerous in many professions, but it's a fashion statement, and a cultural statement, and has immense meaning so... it stays, even if it's silly. On 1/18/2018 at 2:53 PM, toomsta said: Thinking of my favourite short stories, they all build a very sharp emotional investment really quickly. My fault. I think I forgot to mention in the email that this is book four of a series, so coming in cold like this has to be jarring. I'll but a bit more backstory buy in in, as noted by all the previous commenters. On 1/18/2018 at 2:53 PM, toomsta said: Did we just become friends? Yes! On 1/18/2018 at 2:53 PM, toomsta said: Oh right, this is the crazy universe were trees are a precious commodity? What a universe! It's kind of my nirvana... On 1/18/2018 at 2:53 PM, toomsta said: Character is talking to himself, out loud. Has been edited On 1/18/2018 at 2:53 PM, toomsta said: Would like some of his past, how he knows so much about tech, alien tech, etc. Debating this. I don't want to drag the short down (it's already over 5K), but maybe a few more nuggets... On 1/18/2018 at 2:53 PM, toomsta said: Instant world peace? Like two-minute noodles? I don't buy that for a second. You know, that guy looked at me funny, but hey, I won't punch him because those Aliens gifted us world peace. This needs a very good explanation. In fact we have three books explaining it! I love the comparison to two-minute noodles. Perfection. Thank you for the comments! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinski Posted January 20, 2018 Report Share Posted January 20, 2018 4 hours ago, kais said: I'm trying to be better with the ship in this short, since he's modding it out and the Buran would be completely useless as a tramp transport without heavy modification. Is it too out of place with how the first three books were? Well, given the choice, as some later readers might be, I might have read the prequel stories before the main trilogy. 4 hours ago, kais said: It was meant to be ridiculous, and mostly a running joke, so I'll call this a win Mm, I just didn't get jokery as a running theme in the stories, but it's certainly absurdist, I can't deny that 5 hours ago, kais said: Late edit to book one. Fair enough. How I do always remember my science teacher in elementary school taking issue with the tripods in War of the Worlds being able to create the tech that they did, because they didn't have opposable thumbs. How do you build a space-faring empire with claws? By first building claw-friendly tools, I suppose. 5 hours ago, kais said: If I go too much into his backstory, I might have to turn this book from a book of shorts into a full blown prequel. You say that like it's a bad thing. If Y's story is interesting enough, why not? I guess I always identified more with him as an overweight bloke of a certain age. 5 hours ago, kais said: UGH writing! I know, right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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