380 posts in this topic

Aw, I was hoping to look into this during the weekend. Ohwell.

 

I was talking to a friend about the original translation of Navani's notebook and the Alethi script, and he brought up something I couldn't quite get an answer to - how does one go about translating something like this? In other words, how did you figure all this out?

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From what I've heard, you get a count of all the characters. You figure out the likely letters based on the count. With that in mind, try to guess a word based on context, use the translated letters in other words, expand from context, etc.

Note that I have no experience in this at all.

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Wow. I am truly impressed at your skills. If I had to make a bet, you just cracked Thaylen right here. It seems to me like this map would have come off the Wind's Pleasure or a similar ship. Combine that with the fact that we're not far from Thalath and I think it's pretty solid evidence. Great work! :D

 

If I may ask, where did you find this image online to work with?

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Ah, the Thaylen script not having vowels makes a lot of sense actually. Explains why they tend to mash a bunch of consonants together. Their alphabet literally does that, so they probably don't have tons of awareness of vowel sounds. Light, that's really cool.

 

Also, Harakeke, I think you might be magic. Just saying.

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I just realized that this key can also be used to read Alethi glyphs. They're heavily stylized, but the basic forms are there!

 

edit: It works really well for Kaladin's Sas tattoo, but the more elaborate glyphs are trickier. Alethi may have more/different letters, and I bet the dots are represent vowels somehow. I have to head to work now, but I'll play around with this some more later.

Edited by Harakeke
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Very very nice, Harakeke. We'd be lost without you. :D

 

EDIT: But yeah, that's definitely "Cove" there. The labels match up to the location of, well, coves on the map.

Edited by Kurkistan
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Ah, Thaylen!  I was hoping someone would know the proper name for it!  (I'd been calling it Frostish in my head!)

 

Asul helpfully posted the images here: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/6471-spoilers-interior-art/

 

If it's an issue I can blur out the picture and just leave the text.

Not an issue at all! I just hadn't seen them online, so I was wondering

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It's not that the glyphs use Thaylen graphemes. It's that they ultimately derive from the same source.

 

Mmm Dawnchant?

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Man you are awesome.

 

Do you work with this for living or you are just a genius with a hooby for crack fictional languages ?

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Anybody want to do a comparative analysis of Thaylenese and the Steel alphabet to look for common modes?

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Preliminary Alethi glyph translation key:

post-1847-0-57124800-1394177196_thumb.jp

 

Still very much a work in progress.

Does anyone know if there are high-resolution copies of the WoK illustrations floating around somewhere? I'm noticing glyphs all over the place now, but most of them are very hard to make out the details on.

 

@Natans - Nope, I just do this for fun/procrastination! I have taken one or two linguistics classes though.

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I am going to start using those as a part of my recruitment campaign to get everyone to read Brandon.

 

That aside, I just want to take a break and give you - us - a perspective. We read a book (series) by a guy who (indirectly) created at least two alphabets for his fictional cultures which alphabets, as written languages tend to, were derived from a single parent / root alphabet (the Dawnchant, in all likelihood). Then we (and by we I mean Harakeke) figured out those alphabets were actual alphabets, not just squiggles on a page, deciphered them, and - because why the hell not - decided to create a translation key between them. 

 

Harakeke, I expect you to have a beta version of the Dawnchant itself by the week's end. You know, the one we haven't even seen yet.

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Harakeke I'm guessing you mean WoR illustrations but if you need WoK you can find those here http://brandonsanderson.com/the-way-of-kings-interior-illustrations-now-uploaded/

Thanks -- although those look like the same files I've seen on Isaac Stewart's website. They're certainly handy, but the fine detail of the glyphs gets lost in the pixelation. They've all got "webres" in the filename, which leads me to believe there are high-res versions somewhere...

 

What I was hoping for was more images along the lines of this: http://www.inkwing.com/freebies/wallpapers/roshar_map/map_roshar_2560x1600.jpg so that I could zoom in close on the glyphs.

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If there are high-res versions online, we don't have access to them. Those are the same ones we have on the wiki.

 

Are there any glyphs on the illustrations anyways, aside from the ones on the map of the Battle of the Tower?

 

EDIT:

And I guess the ones on the side of the warcamp map too.

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I kind of hate you a little bit right now. Even with help, I couldn't figure this out.  However you do so, without a key, within a few days.  Meanie....

 

...now, are you willing to work on the second code in the top and bottom of the page?

 

 

*edit: Oh, that's how you did it.  You're really brilliant, you know that?  You've broken both of them now.  I have to say, I am impressed.  I still kind of hate you.

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If there are high-res versions online, we don't have access to them. Those are the same ones we have on the wiki.

 

Are there any glyphs on the illustrations anyways, aside from the ones on the map of the Battle of the Tower?

 

EDIT:

And I guess the ones on the side of the warcamp map too.

Now that I'm consciously looking for them, I notice glyphs popping up all over the place:

 

Way of Kings

Surgebinding Chart

Voidbinding? Chart (warped versions of Surge glyphs)

Silver Kingdoms Era Map

Roshar map c. 1167

Map of Alethkar

Alethi Warcamps

Kharbranth

Map of the Battle of the Tower

The hair and flames surrounding the Voidbinding? chart and map of Shadesmar are suspiciously symmetrical. It wouldn't surprise me if they were heavily stylized glyphs.

 

The Alethi Codes of War also have a very suspicious pattern running along the sides. It doesn't appear to be Alethi or Thaylen though.

 

Words of Radiance

Bridge 4 Tattoos

Frostlands Map

Sword forms

Battle Map

 

Example of how to decipher a glyph (BRJ = Bridge): edit: incorrectly!  =P

post-1847-0-03044700-1394215525_thumb.jp

post-1847-0-76106300-1394215492_thumb.pn

Edited by Harakeke
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Actually, the bridge 4 glyph does not say "bridge" in English. It uses the Alethi word. If you found "brj" in there, that's a coincidence.

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Well then. That's cool!

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The Alethi word for (any) bridge, or do they have a specific word that describes the bridges used on the Shattered Plains specifically?

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