Jump to content

[OB]Taln appreciation thread and speculation


Steeldancer

Recommended Posts

So, I probably should have made this thread ages ago. But Taln is my new favorite SA character, and if you disagree, you're wrong. :P
I think he's the best guy in the entire cosmere. He is true Honor. The man who was not supposed to be a herald, but never broke for over 4,500 years, plus whatever before that?????? He's the best. The absolute best. 
Unfortunately, he's also lost his mind. Which is sad. 
What I find absolutely fascinating is that he becomes lucid when the perpendicularity forms. For some reason, the realms being closer together makes him less insane, and therefore I'm going to speculate on how he might get fixed and become the wonderful bad-chull Herald that we don't deserve. 
I basically think that somehow, somebody is going to tie his Spiritual Identity to his physical self more strongly. Evidently, them all being closer together allowed for lucidity to occur. And how do I think this will occur? I think he's going to attract a spren. 
The problem is, we don't know of any other mechanics that allow you to tie yourself to the cognitive and spiritual realms like a spren bond. A spren bond literally makes you more like a spren, bringing you closer to your identity and the cognitive realm (which is why Kaladin can see spren better). So, I think beforehand, Taln was never around long enough for a spren to bond him. But a spren bond now, I THINK, might be exactly what he need to bring his mind back together. The stonewards are described as being just like Taln, so Taln is also just like them.
Therefore, if Taln attracts a spren, I called it, Taln is my man, forever and ever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I agree with you, Taln is awesome. Him bonding a spren sounds likely. The only issue is how he is going to attract a spren if he is a rambling mess. Would that be possible?

 

Idk, that ouburst of amazingness at the perpendicularity probably has the Stoneward spren already fighting over him :lol:. Not to mention he has always epitomized these ideals, it is probably just a matter of time before the spren catch up with him. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Is he still referred to as "the man who calls himself Taln" by the way? 

He never should have been in the first place. 

It was a contrived that only existed outside the books, and was always crem. 

He's confirmed as Taln now, so it should be officially dead, but if he had ever not been Taln, it would have needed to be explained why anyone would have bothered to switch his Blade for another. 

I have always hated that bit of Trolling from Brandon. It was a distraction that only exists because of WoBs. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We do have precident for a Herald bonding a spren, in the form of Nale, so it's clearly possible. But his nahel bond doesn't seem to have helped with his sanity. I accept that Taln's madness, after 4500 years of torture, may be fundamentally different to the madness of the other Heralds, but since this is the only data point we have, it's worth examining.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

@Calderis You have any idea about why Brandon did it then? Just to troll people?

It started with people asking questions about Taln, and Brandon started it as a way to avoid the question. Our fandom, being what it is, latched onto the words and blew them out of proportion. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Varion said:

We do have precident for a Herald bonding a spren, in the form of Nale, so it's clearly possible. But his nahel bond doesn't seem to have helped with his sanity. I accept that Taln's madness, after 4500 years of torture, may be fundamentally different to the madness of the other Heralds, but since this is the only data point we have, it's worth examining.

 

Naln's insanity is very different than than Taln's. Naln still knows who he is, and is cogniscent. I think he's a different kind of broken than Taln. Taln is more like Jezrien was, although Jezrien had no hope of bonding a spren, because he no longer lived those ideals. Taln always has, and presumably always will. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

@Calderis You have any idea about why Brandon did it then? Just to troll people?

 

30 minutes ago, Calderis said:

It started with people asking questions about Taln, and Brandon started it as a way to avoid the question. Our fandom, being what it is, latched onto the words and blew them out of proportion. 

It's also a holdover from an old version of WoK where there was uncertainty over if he was Taln or not. He changed the story when he rewrote it, but he was stubborn and kept answering questions as if there was still uncertainty. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Taln is the best! That scene with Ash made me cry. 

I can't imagine he will just be healed, it didn't seem to work for Nale. Though I think bonding with a spren is inevitable and will help, I think we will still only get moments of a lucidity- at least for the moment. I think it would be too simple of he was just healed. Then the Radiants could just get all their answers and Taln would be honorable and right all the time and that would be that. But broken Taln's moments of lucidity will be crucial to the cause.

I don't think he is long for this world.

Reasons:

- Moash/Vyre is going to be hunting Heralds and he will be top of Odium's list.

-Awesome though he is, I don't think his present-self can carry a whole book in the second half. Which makes me think that by then we will have a Stoneward Radiant and it will be their book with Taln's undoubtedly awesome flashbacks.

(ducks for cover)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have more hope for Taln.  Remember at the end of Oathbringer when he was going to meet Dalinar (who may or may not be the new Honor) despite not knowing who he was?  Notice that he did not degrade back into raving when the Perpendicularity closed.  My theory is that the Heralds' madness began with the death of Honor and the loss of their bond with him.  I suspect that Dalinar will be rebuilding these bonds (as he is a Bondsmith) and may help heal Taln's madness.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

Naln's insanity is very different than than Taln's. Naln still knows who he is, and is cogniscent. I think he's a different kind of broken than Taln. Taln is more like Jezrien was, although Jezrien had no hope of bonding a spren, because he no longer lived those ideals. Taln always has, and presumably always will. 

As I said, I absolutely accept the possibility that Taln and Nale's madness are different, perhaps owing to the fact that they "broke" in different ways. But it's also very possible that the underlying cause of their madness is the same, at least in regards to their Spiritual Identity. For example, it is entirely possible that Taln's madness differs from Nale's, and the rest of the Heralds, only in degree. They could in fact all be losing their minds -- or should I say, losing connection with their Spiritual Identity -- in the same way. It's just that 4500 years of torture has advanced Taln's deterioration much further than the others. This could explain why Nale is still cognisant, while Taln is not.

(I also disagree that Taln doesn't know who he is -- his mantra repeats his identity over and over, so it's literally the last thing he is clinging too; and I disagree that Taln's madness is any more similar to Jezrien's -- his lack of coherence is more likely self-inflicted, as we only ever saw him drunk in present times).

Your theory supposes that Taln can be healed by a spren bond, which would "tie his Spiritual Identity to his physical self more strongly". I don't actually disagree that this could happen, but given that we know Nale did not regain his sanity after bonding a spren, I think it's very important to ask whether Nale and Taln are both damaged in the same way. Simply brushing aside the superficial differences isn't convincing. 

There is actually some evidence to support the idea that Taln and Nale, and the other Heralds are all damaged in the same way, and examining this can lead us to some interesting conclusions:

  1. The Death Rattle from the WoK Epigraph for Chapter 54 clearly links Taln to the madness of the other 9 Heralds: "The burdens of nine become mine. Why must I carry the madness of them all? Oh, Almighty, release me." 
  2. In the Prologue of WoK, Kalak is startled to discover that Jezrien is "broken too", and realises that they probably all are. This suggests that the initial "breaking" of the Heralds is shared by all of them, caused by several cycles of torture and desolations. The manifestation of each Herald's madness diverged after that point, with Taln subjected to 4500 more years of torture, while the other nine lived with the guilt of their betrayal and the lies they told to cover it up. 
  3. We have other examples of Cognitive Shadows who have descended into madness over a similar time period: The Fused. They also show individuals at different stages of cognitive decline. Interestingly, their decline is marked by the loss of their individual identities, becoming distilled manifestations of the rage and vengeance, further and further dis-Connected from the person who originally gave those "ideals" context.
  4. The madness of the Heralds can be understood in a similar way to the Fused -- several cycles of desolations tore at their souls, loosing the connection with their Spiritual Identity. The strongest part of their Spiritual Identity, however, was their Ideals, and so these have remained the central pillars of their identity in the cognitive and physical realm, just like the hardest rock will remain standing after all the softer rock is eroded around it. This is why the nine Heralds who broke the Oathpact are all mad in ways that show an obsession with their ideals, divorced from the individual identity that gave them context, and tainted by the guilt of their betrayal. It also explains why the only vestige of Taln's mind is a mantra that repeats endlessly repeats his identity and mission. 
  5. (An extra, possibly parallel point -- this process reminds me of the way Vessels slowly lose their original human identity, as the Intent of the shard seeps into them.)

If this is true (and I'm not saying it is -- I just want to present it as a plausible counter possibility to your assertion that Taln and Nale are mad in fundamentally different ways), then it actually has one counter-intuitive consequence for your spren-bond theory -- namely that a spren bond will tie a Herald more closely to their philosophical IDEAL, not their individual Spiritual Identity. A spen-bond with a Herald will only exacerbate the obsessive madness that was already present. I am basing this conclusion on your own description of the effect of a nahel bond, where you said:

8 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

A spren bond literally makes you more like a spren, bringing you closer to your identity and the cognitive realm (which is why Kaladin can see spren better).

You are right that the nahel bond makes the human (or Herald) more like a spren (and vice-versa) as their Spiritwebs interweave with each other. However, I'd argue that this doesn't bring the human closer their identity, as you state, but closer to the Ideal that the spren represents. In the example of Kaladin and Syl, Kaladin doesn't move closer to his own Spiritual Identity, he moves closer to the external Spiritual Ideal of Honor, as manifested by Honor spren like Syl. 

So when you say that:

8 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

The stonewards are described as being just like Taln, so Taln is also just like them.

It is probably more accurate to say that the Ideals of the Stonewards are described as being just like the Ideals that Taln stood for, so Taln's Ideals are also just like theirs. And since spren are the manifestations of these Ideals, bonding one will only tie him more closely to those ideals, not to Taln's individual Spiritual Identity. 

Now having said all that, there is also some evidence that Taln's madness is actually a different case to Nale and Ash. When Dalinar summoned the perpendicularity, we saw Taln returned to lucidity, suggesting that closer connection with his Spiritual Identity in the Spiritual Realm can heal him. In contrast we didn't see any evidence that Ash or Nale were similarly healed. I am being cautious here, because we didn't see any evidence that they weren't healed either -- Nale was off screen, and while Ash was still clearly broken by guilt, we didn't see her feel any compulsion to deface any statues either. 

Overall, I tend to agree with @Brgst13 that it is most likely to be Dalinar who is able to re-bond Taln's Spiritual Identity to his cognitive and physical aspects. (Although I also have to correct one point by @Brgst13: Taln's lucidity did disappear when the perpendicularity closed. It is stated clearly, as Ash tries to get him out of the city (I don't have my book so can;t get the exact reference, but I've checked this before). 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Varion said:

As I said, I absolutely accept the possibility that Taln and Nale's madness are different, perhaps owing to the fact that they "broke" in different ways. But it's also very possible that the underlying cause of their madness is the same, at least in regards to their Spiritual Identity. For example, it is entirely possible that Taln's madness differs from Nale's, and the rest of the Heralds, only in degree. They could in fact all be losing their minds -- or should I say, losing connection with their Spiritual Identity -- in the same way. It's just that 4500 years of torture has advanced Taln's deterioration much further than the others. This could explain why Nale is still cognisant, while Taln is not.

(I also disagree that Taln doesn't know who he is -- his mantra repeats his identity over and over, so it's literally the last thing he is clinging too; and I disagree that Taln's madness is any more similar to Jezrien's -- his lack of coherence is more likely self-inflicted, as we only ever saw him drunk in present times).

Your theory supposes that Taln can be healed by a spren bond, which would "tie his Spiritual Identity to his physical self more strongly". I don't actually disagree that this could happen, but given that we know Nale did not regain his sanity after bonding a spren, I think it's very important to ask whether Nale and Taln are both damaged in the same way. Simply brushing aside the superficial differences isn't convincing. 

There is actually some evidence to support the idea that Taln and Nale, and the other Heralds are all damaged in the same way, and examining this can lead us to some interesting conclusions:

  1. The Death Rattle from the WoK Epigraph for Chapter 54 clearly links Taln to the madness of the other 9 Heralds: "The burdens of nine become mine. Why must I carry the madness of them all? Oh, Almighty, release me." 
  2. In the Prologue of WoK, Kalak is startled to discover that Jezrien is "broken too", and realises that they probably all are. This suggests that the initial "breaking" of the Heralds is shared by all of them, caused by several cycles of torture and desolations. The manifestation of each Herald's madness diverged after that point, with Taln subjected to 4500 more years of torture, while the other nine lived with the guilt of their betrayal and the lies they told to cover it up. 
  3. We have other examples of Cognitive Shadows who have descended into madness over a similar time period: The Fused. They also show individuals at different stages of cognitive decline. Interestingly, their decline is marked by the loss of their individual identities, becoming distilled manifestations of the rage and vengeance, further and further dis-Connected from the person who originally gave those "ideals" context.
  4. The madness of the Heralds can be understood in a similar way to the Fused -- several cycles of desolations tore at their souls, loosing the connection with their Spiritual Identity. The strongest part of their Spiritual Identity, however, was their Ideals, and so these have remained the central pillars of their identity in the cognitive and physical realm, just like the hardest rock will remain standing after all the softer rock is eroded around it. This is why the nine Heralds who broke the Oathpact are all mad in ways that show an obsession with their ideals, divorced from the individual identity that gave them context, and tainted by the guilt of their betrayal. It also explains why the only vestige of Taln's mind is a mantra that repeats endlessly repeats his identity and mission. 
  5. (An extra, possibly parallel point -- this process reminds me of the way Vessels slowly lose their original human identity, as the Intent of the shard seeps into them.)

If this is true (and I'm not saying it is -- I just want to present it as a plausible counter possibility to your assertion that Taln and Nale are mad in fundamentally different ways), then it actually has one counter-intuitive consequence for your spren-bond theory -- namely that a spren bond will tie a Herald more closely to their philosophical IDEAL, not their individual Spiritual Identity. A spen-bond with a Herald will only exacerbate the obsessive madness that was already present. I am basing this conclusion on your own description of the effect of a nahel bond, where you said:

You are right that the nahel bond makes the human (or Herald) more like a spren (and vice-versa) as their Spiritwebs interweave with each other. However, I'd argue that this doesn't bring the human closer their identity, as you state, but closer to the Ideal that the spren represents. In the example of Kaladin and Syl, Kaladin doesn't move closer to his own Spiritual Identity, he moves closer to the external Spiritual Ideal of Honor, as manifested by Honor spren like Syl. 

So when you say that:

It is probably more accurate to say that the Ideals of the Stonewards are described as being just like the Ideals that Taln stood for, so Taln's Ideals are also just like theirs. And since spren are the manifestations of these Ideals, bonding one will only tie him more closely to those ideals, not to Taln's individual Spiritual Identity. 

Now having said all that, there is also some evidence that Taln's madness is actually a different case to Nale and Ash. When Dalinar summoned the perpendicularity, we saw Taln returned to lucidity, suggesting that closer connection with his Spiritual Identity in the Spiritual Realm can heal him. In contrast we didn't see any evidence that Ash or Nale were similarly healed. I am being cautious here, because we didn't see any evidence that they weren't healed either -- Nale was off screen, and while Ash was still clearly broken by guilt, we didn't see her feel any compulsion to deface any statues either. 

Overall, I tend to agree with @Brgst13 that it is most likely to be Dalinar who is able to re-bond Taln's Spiritual Identity to his cognitive and physical aspects. (Although I also have to correct one point by @Brgst13: Taln's lucidity did disappear when the perpendicularity closed. It is stated clearly, as Ash tries to get him out of the city (I don't have my book so can;t get the exact reference, but I've checked this before). 

 

 

Well, Nale was in the area when the perp occured, so was Ash, and they didn't seem particularly changed in terms of their go to thing. Talns seems more extreme, where yes he knows who he is, but he is not in touch with his identity, his memories, who he IS, not just his name. 

The best thing would be to bond yourself, but I don't think that's possible. So yes, the spren would bring Taln closer to an ideal, but that ideal is also part of your spirit web. You become closer in tune with who you are, we see that with Shallan and Kaladin and Dalinar. So I think that should work for Taln as well. 

And if Taln dies, heads are going to roll. 

Edited by Steeldancer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right, so there is no question that Taln is the greatest hero, that his words to Ash during his brief period of lucidity were beautiful, etc, etc. I also very much hope that he does gets healed, at least partway and has at least a few years of normal-ish life. Concerning his bonding a spren - indeed, that didn't help Nale, or, at least, it didn't help as much as he believed before being forced to aknowledge that he was "getting worse", after all. There is definitely an intriguing connection between Honor going mad and the Heralds ditto, which raises the question what happened first and whether one caused the other. And how and if it could be fixed.

Personally, I have an unsupported theory that Ishar and his scholarly collegues have done more than convincing the rest of the Heralds to abandon the Oathpact. They have also somehow made it impossible for Taln to give in/for the Oaths to bend even if he tried, and madness for all of them was the side-effect. That would explain the otherwise unexplicable conviction that Talenel could hold out forever (no matter how awesome he is, that's just nonsense) and also explain why Ishar and Nale believed that letting the Radiants return would carry a small chance of causing a Desolation - because they feared that KRs might somehow accidentially undo the additional bindings that they have cobbled together.

Going back to Taln bonding a spren, I have another crackpot theory that Dalinar will give him Oathbringer, which is, IMHO, a Stoneward shardblade and that a broken Herald and a broken spren will help each other heal and return to sanity. Somehow. Certainly the particular way that Dalinar is treating Oathbringer, his specific intention to put him "in good hands" and the fact that his own devotary was that of Talenelelat are all hinting at something, IMHO.

If it turns out that there was no contributing secret behind Taln's phenomenal endurance and he was just so much more heroic than the rest of his collegues, I am going to be disappointed. To repeat what I have written on the subject elsewhere:

I feel that the Oathpact and how it played out was a bit of missed opportunity in SA. I mean, it is a great idea – 10 different people with different strengths and weaknesses protecting humanity from a terrible danger at the cost of unimaginable suffering and going insane in the process. Only, it turns out that their variety didn’t help them at all, and that the most conventional pick of them all – the ideal soldier-dude, proved to be better at it than the rest of them combined. If only they had picked 10 like him, Roshar would have been safe forever! Alethi were right, after all – being a soldier clearly is the highest Calling. And now he is being presented as an unlikely hero because he wasn’t a scholar or royalty?! Please.

I mean, let’s be honest – why would anybody _expect_ of scholars, lawyers or artists, etc., to be the best at fighting and enduring for all eternity? If one of them proved to be the most resilient, _they_ would have been an unlikely hero. Soldier is very much an expected hero – and this undermines the whole idea behind the Heralds and the ideals that they have come to embody.

So, while I very much appreciate Taln and his sacrifice, I hope that there is more behind it than him being just sooo much better than the rest of them.

And that the hitherto neglected/obscure Heralds get their chance to shine and contribute to salvation of Roshar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For Talns madness, I'd guess that his spiritual and cognitive aspects have lost at least part of their connection to him, and to eachother, which is why he feels better when the Realms join together. 

22 minutes ago, Isilel said:

I feel that the Oathpact and how it played out was a bit of missed opportunity in SA. I mean, it is a great idea – 10 different people with different strengths and weaknesses protecting humanity from a terrible danger at the cost of unimaginable suffering and going insane in the process. Only, it turns out that their variety didn’t help them at all, and that the most conventional pick of them all – the ideal soldier-dude, proved to be better at it than the rest of them combined. If only they had picked 10 like him, Roshar would have been safe forever! Alethi were right, after all – being a soldier clearly is the highest Calling. And now he is being presented as an unlikely hero because he wasn’t a scholar or royalty?! Please.

First off, Taln is special even for being a soldier. Not all soldiers can tank torture for 4500 years. I don't think Adolin, Amaram, Teft, etc could do it, and they are all soldiers. So just picking ten ideal soldiers wouldn't have worked. 

Then, taking torture wasn't the only thing the Heralds were supposed to do. They would lead humanity, fight Voidbringers, think up strategies and such. Ishar was obviously a great thinker (he invented the KR), Jezrien was once a great leader. Vedel seems to have been the best healer. It is possible that someone like Chana or Nale was a better fighter than Taln. Their individual strenghts were most important when they were on Roshar, not in Damnation. I also think that Talns tankiness has more to do with his personality than the fact that he was a soldier. 

EDIT: @Leyrann, here you go:

 

Edited by Toaster Retribution
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 14/1/2018 at 2:37 AM, Varion said:

As I said, I absolutely accept the possibility that Taln and Nale's madness are different, perhaps owing to the fact that they "broke" in different ways. But it's also very possible that the underlying cause of their madness is the same, at least in regards to their Spiritual Identity. For example, it is entirely possible that Taln's madness differs from Nale's, and the rest of the Heralds, only in degree. They could in fact all be losing their minds -- or should I say, losing connection with their Spiritual Identity -- in the same way. It's just that 4500 years of torture has advanced Taln's deterioration much further than the others. This could explain why Nale is still cognisant, while Taln is not.

(I also disagree that Taln doesn't know who he is -- his mantra repeats his identity over and over, so it's literally the last thing he is clinging too; and I disagree that Taln's madness is any more similar to Jezrien's -- his lack of coherence is more likely self-inflicted, as we only ever saw him drunk in present times).

Your theory supposes that Taln can be healed by a spren bond, which would "tie his Spiritual Identity to his physical self more strongly". I don't actually disagree that this could happen, but given that we know Nale did not regain his sanity after bonding a spren, I think it's very important to ask whether Nale and Taln are both damaged in the same way. Simply brushing aside the superficial differences isn't convincing. 

all the herald abandon their sword and their duty, all minus taln. he, and only he, had hold the oathpact for four millennia, the honorblades are a sign of an oath (different from the shardblade, but still an oath taken), if the madness of the heralds is linked to their divine attributes the root of them lie in the broken oath after Aharietiam. taln mind is shattered in the four and half millennia of torture. I don't think his madness is the same type of the other.

Edited by Fulminato
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 14.1.2018 at 1:27 PM, Isilel said:

If only they had picked 10 like him, Roshar would have been safe forever!

Although in general I think you are right, in this cited point you are wrong. If I correctly understood the mechanisms (see below), the weakest link determined the coming of the desolation. So you might even find nine more "Taln-a-likes", but either the weakest of them is weaker than Taln, then the desolation would come earlier than 4500 years, or the weakest ist not weaker than Taln, then the desolation comes exactly as it indeed came.

Quote

ONCE ONE BROKE, ALL TEN HERALDS RETURNED TO ROSHAR.

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (S.406). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle-Version. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/13/2018 at 8:17 AM, Steeldancer said:

So, I think beforehand, Taln was never around long enough for a spren to bond him. But a spren bond now, I THINK, might be exactly what he need to bring his mind back together. The stonewards are described as being just like Taln, so Taln is also just like them.

Therefore, if Taln attracts a spren, I called it, Taln is my man, forever and ever.

Plenty of people are calling it, especially after Dalinar's roll call at Thaylen City. He pegged Taln as Stoneward and Ash as Dustrbringer, so I'm expecting those two Heralds to bond those two types of spren and becomes those types of Radiants in addition to or despite their Heraldic powers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've got my tinfoil out with Taln and have a pet theory that his final purpose will be the reforging of honour (or something of similar but different intent). We know the splintering of a shard is technically reversible and who better to be involved in the restoration of it than the most honourable of all men? I still feel it will need something more significant than just Radiant's to drive off (or even overcome) Odium.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems likely that there will be ten prime Radiants, the 10 people around Dalinar when he gives out orders. They seem to be related to the ten focus characters for the ten books (and maybe ten new "Heralds"). Something intervened for those ten people to be there at that moment.

Windrunner - Kaladin 

Skybreaker - Szeth

Dustbringer - Ash (I think it would be cool to have the Herald of creation become a destroyer in her new role, it's also the only spot open)

Edgedancer - Lift

Truthwatcher - Renarin

Lightweaver - Shallan

Elsecaller - Jasnah

Willshaper - Venli

Stoneward - Taln (I think Taln will become a Stoneward by bonding a Nahel Spren besides being the patron of the order)

Bondsmith - Dalinar

These are our ten flashback characters with Jasnah, Lift, Renarin, Ash, and Taln as our back five viewpoint characters. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Chaos locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...