[OB] On fabrials

[ElvisSpren]

So just a quick thought about fabrials.  In OB we see Navani create or at least commission a watch for Dalinar. The gauntlet has a watch, a high storm watch and a pain fabrial which will reduce or remove pain from the wearer.  Later near the end of the book as Thaylen City comes under attack Navani reflects on the possible creation of a fabrial that will repel exhaustion.  It has been implied; possibly confirmed, that fabrials are created by imprisoning a spren in a gemstone and powering it with stormlight.

Sounds familar to me... dunt dunt duuuunnnnn  The Infinity Gauntlet!!  Powered by Soul Gems this is the ultimate BA fabrial.  

What combination of spren could be trapped to make the ultimate fabrial in the cosmere?

Could glory spren combat exhaustion or depression?  Is there growth spren for healing?  So many possibilities.

Last note concerning fabrials and this is actually a topic for a separate thread but what total dicks men are.  Not only are we the void bringers but we enslave spren to make appliances!?   

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

@ElvisSpren totally agree, takes a real jerk wad to imprison sentient life to effect modern convenience. "Hey you, partially aware wind spren, I need you to live in my blender so I can have smoothies."

Or: "Hey you, pretty intelligent flame spren, you're going to live in my toaster for eternity. You're pretty smart right, can you burn the glyph for love into that piece of lavis toast, it's our anniversary and I'm making breakfast for the little lady."

I also felt bad for the enslaved animals in the Flinstones, and I think Rosharans might be even bigger Yabba-dabba-douches than the Bedrockians.

Come on guys, you can make watches with gears and springs. Geesh.

That said, the infinity gauntlet idea is freaking amazing. That's not enslavement, that's gathering a posse of willing spren that want to be part of something EPIC.

Edited January 13, 2018 by hoiditthroughthegrapevine

[ElvisSpren]

You got serious feels if you felt bad for the enslaved of Fred & Wilma! Nice moves. At least they peddeled their own cars.

[Llarimar]

2 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

@ElvisSpren totally agree, takes a real jerk wad to imprison sentient life to effect modern convenience. "Hey you, partially aware wind spren, I need you to live in my blender so I can have smoothies."

I actually think that this is going to be an important issue moving forward.  There will likely be a conflict between the advancements in fabrial technology and a rishing pushback against enslaving spren (perhaps led by a few of the Knights Radiant, like Shallan, who consider it cruel).  Maybe the Cult of Moments in Kholinar (or whatever is left of them) will become spren activists, trying to stop the fabrial scientists like Navani from attracting and imprisoning spren.  As a side note, perhaps this could be a conflict with Navani if she begins bonding the Sibling.  The Stormfather already seems angry about sprens being imprisoned for the use of fabrials.

There is one scene where Taravangian tells Dalinar that the "partial-Shardplate" shields (don't remember their exact name) are created by imprisoning a spren that could potentially bond a Knight Radiant.  What does that mean?  Are they somehow trapping and imprisoning higher spren to create Shardplate technology?  This comment by T is sort of brushed over in the moment because Dalinar is being overwhelmed by the Thrill, but I think it will come up again at some point. 

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

21 minutes ago, Llarimar said:

I actually think that this is going to be an important issue moving forward.  There will likely be a conflict between the advancements in fabrial technology and a rishing pushback against enslaving spren (perhaps led by a few of the Knights Radiant, like Shallan, who consider it cruel). 

I think you've pinpointed the moment when a NPO was created, PETS (People for the Ethical Treatment of Spren).

The Cult of Moments seem like the perfect people to communicate this message, highly theatrical and mob like in the extreme.

I personally believe in the the ethical treatment of animals (and spren) but there is an egotistical singularity that exists in sanctimonious crusades like this where the substance of the matter gets pulled away and all that is left is the naked egotistical impulse of hey look at me, aren't I so great, and this is actually a disservice to the cause  (sorry for the anti PETA rant, but I think they take a positive human impulse, to help animals, and pervert it in service of their own sanctimonious egos)

[Llarimar]

21 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

I personally believe in the the ethical treatment of animals (and spren) but there is an egotistical singularity that exists in sanctimonious crusades like this where the substance of the matter gets pulled away and all that is left is the naked egotistical impulse of hey look at me, aren't I so great, and this is actually a disservice to the cause  (sorry for the anti PETA rant, but I think they take a positive human impulse, to help animals, and pervert it in service of their own sanctimonious egos)

Yes, I agree that sometimes animal-rights activists can become a little self-righteous and ingratiating, even though I likewise agree with their causes most of the time.

However, the difference between endangering animals and imprisoning spren is that some spren are much more highly sentient than animals.  If what Taravangian says in true, and they really did find a way to imprison a "Knight Radiant spren", then they have imprisoned something with at least the intellectual capacity of a human, if not greater.  If this becomes a serious problem - humans luring and imprisoning higher spren in order to create powerful fabrials - then I can see the spren getting involved as well (which is something that animals can never do).  This could be the cause of a serious rift, and maybe even a full-out war between the Cognitive Realm and the Physical Realm.  The reason the higher spren don't seem to have made a big deal out of it so far is possibly because the Jah Keved fabrial scientists only imprisoned a small number of higher spren - so few that the other spren haven't really noticed yet.

The progress of fabrial technology and our understanding of spren has been slowly expanded and teased throughout all three of the Stormlight books, such as in the the Interlude with the ardents, somewhere in the Reshi Isles I believe, who are studying the flamespren, as well as the Interlude with Axies the Collector.  The nature of spren, their relationship to the Physical Realm, and the construction of fabrials will probably be something that becomes a more integral part of the story.

 

[Willshaping Crasher]

1 hour ago, Llarimar said:

I actually think that this is going to be an important issue moving forward.  There will likely be a conflict between the advancements in fabrial technology and a rishing pushback against enslaving spren (perhaps led by a few of the Knights Radiant, like Shallan, who consider it cruel).

This brings up another issue as well.  We have seen that many types of spren appear only partially in the physical realm.  When trapped in a fabrial, are they dragging the rest of it through the cognitive by its feet/snout?

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

21 hours ago, Willshaping Crasher said:

This brings up another issue as well.  We have seen that many types of spren appear only partially in the physical realm.  When trapped in a fabrial, are they dragging the rest of it through the cognitive by its feet/snout?

Hahahah,didn't even think of that possible ramification. Makes me feel even worse for the spren.

I hope at some point Jasnah Elsecalls her mom into Shadesmar while she's wearing one of her fancy fabrials. The painrial might be able to get her back for enslaving it, if only a small portion of it is trapped in the gem.

I do think we have a view of what spren trapped in fabrials do in the Cognitive Realm though. The oathgate spren are big and freaking awesome, but they seemed to be locked in place. Not a great life for a super-charged, sapient chunk of divinity, but at least they look really cool, right?

[QuasarInTheMist]

On 1/12/2018 at 6:48 PM, ElvisSpren said:

Last note concerning fabrials and this is actually a topic for a separate thread but what total dicks men are.  Not only are we the void bringers but we enslave spren to make appliances!?   

Other people have already made comments to this, but viewing the practices of our own culture from the outside reveals we are just the same (if not worse).  We enslave and kill billions animals just to eat them, which is unnecessary since we could be eating non-sentient organisms like plants and fungi.   Fabrials at least can be used for an extended period of time rather than just a single meal.  

And I think the humans being the Voidbringers is a clear analogy to the Earth history of colonialism.  I'm may write a post on that.  

[ElvisSpren]

On 1/17/2018 at 5:01 PM, QuasarInTheMist said:

Other people have already made comments to this, but viewing the practices of our own culture from the outside reveals we are just the same (if not worse).  We enslave and kill billions animals just to eat them, which is unnecessary since we could be eating non-sentient organisms like plants and fungi.   Fabrials at least can be used for an extended period of time rather than just a single meal.  

And I think the humans being the Voidbringers is a clear analogy to the Earth history of colonialism.  I'm may write a post on that.  

100%  Sad to know we are killing this earth, it's inhabitants, resources and each other and we're not gonna stop.

[Isilel]

I really don't think that non-sapient spren in fabrials suffer or are any more enslaved than during their bonding with the gemhearts of various Rosharan creatures. Aren't there WoBs that fabrial magi-tech is the future of Roshar? They certainly don't have resources for conventional Industrial Revolution not to mention that stormlight is a wonderfully ecologically clean resource. And very likely new fabrials and other innovations are what will give them an edge this time around, since the Fused are very experienced at command, logistics, strategy, etc. but also stuck in the past and can't change easily.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Isilel

[anna]

On 1/12/2018 at 6:48 PM, ElvisSpren said:

So just a quick thought about fabrials.  In OB we see Navani create or at least commission a watch for Dalinar. The gauntlet has a watch, a high storm watch and a pain fabrial which will reduce or remove pain from the wearer.  Later near the end of the book as Thaylen City comes under attack Navani reflects on the possible creation of a fabrial that will repel exhaustion.  It has been implied; possibly confirmed, that fabrials are created by imprisoning a spren in a gemstone and powering it with stormlight.

Sounds familar to me... dunt dunt duuuunnnnn  The Infinity Gauntlet!!  Powered by Soul Gems this is the ultimate BA fabrial. 

Hmm ... I think it reminds me more of Discworld technology like the dis-organizers, which contain a (usually incompetent) imp.

[recneps]

The Spren are cognitive entities: They exist because of the perception of sapient physical entities. The sapient ones want to be doing this: Much like the ship Shallan turned into water wanted to be a ship until she convinced it otherwise. The Oathgate spren similarly wanted to be fulfilling their duties. We can even see this in the Stormfather. He wants to be destructive and violent(until after being bonded with Dalinar for a while), because that's how he started. The Storms were perceived as destructive, and he started as only the cognitive manifestation of the Storms, and stayed that way even after he received a large portion of Honour. The nonsapient ones? They're literally representations of forces of nature, as perceived by humans/singers. Are windmills unethical because they enslave the wind? Are steam engines unethical because they trap the fire?