TheDoomsday

[OB] Will Shallan and Adolin have a child?

46 posts in this topic

Just now, Steeldancer said:

And then it turns out Shallan has twins :ph34r:

And the Randiancy protects her from the Morning nausea.. oh sorry wrong Story XD 

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Chapter 1 of Book Four:

Shallan woke up and rolled over to smile at the small bundle in the crib next to the bed. Storms, she loved her child. How could have known that the only thing she needed to heal herself was a baby? She was whole and real and had no more issues with her multiple personas. The baby had solved it all. It was a true miracle. 

:ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:

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1 hour ago, Steeldancer said:

And then it turns out Shallan has twins :ph34r:

Come on, if anything, Shallan would have triplets.  One for each of her to raise.

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1 hour ago, Dreamstorm said:

Chapter 1 of Book Four:

Shallan woke up and rolled over to smile at the small bundle in the crib next to the bed. Storms, she loved her child. How could have known that the only thing she needed to heal herself was a baby? She was whole and real and had no more issues with her multiple personas. The baby had solved it all. It was a true miracle. 

:ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:

That's exactly the sort of cliched family life scene that I want avoided! :P:ph34r:

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1 minute ago, TheOrlionThatComesBefore said:

That's exactly the sort of cliched family life scene that I want avoided! :P:ph34r:

Lol

I'm definitely understand now why this entire idea would be bad for the series. Honestly, it was just a random thought I had that I wanted to share with the forums. (On that matter, can I just say that the 17th shard is the best forum site I have been a part of. No dislike system, everyone is friendly, everyone is interested in what you have to say, and threads rarely get buried).

Back to the topic, I still hold to the belief that it would be cool to have children of era 1 characters in era 2. The story arc will end eventually. At some point the characters will settle down and not have to worry about fighting voidbringers and stuff (at least until era 2). So in my eyes, why not?

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1 hour ago, Dreamstorm said:

Chapter 1 of Book Four:

Shallan woke up and rolled over to smile at the small bundle in the crib next to the bed. Storms, she loved her child. How could have known that the only thing she needed to heal herself was a baby? She was whole and real and had no more issues with her multiple personas. The baby had solved it all. It was a true miracle. 

:ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:

It's exactly this kind of bastardization of real issues you see in feel-good cult circles that I don't want to happen. I would probably have to burn everything I own of Sanderson's to feel clean again, if something like that ends up being the case. :D

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3 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

All I see is hate for this idea, but honestly I would love to see a Radiant family dynamic, as in raising a child. 

Do you honestly believe, that we would see how Shallan and Adolin would raise their child? The child would be raised offscreen by nannies, else realistically portraying raising a child would take way too much time our of Shallan's or Adolin's or both's arcs. While they are supposed to  do, well, heroic stuff. It is heroic fantasy after all.

Edited by SLNC
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Let’s look at other kids in OB 

Well we have Oroden, Kaladin’s brother. 

Quote

“What’s his name?” “Oroden.” “Child of peace,” Kaladin whispered. “A good name. A very good name.”

page 89 OB

And Gavinor, Elhokar and Aesudan's son, Gavilar & Navani’s grandson, Dalinar’s grandnephew, Jasnah & Adolin’s cousin once removed. 

Quote

“Kal,” Skar said as Kaladin slapped him on the back. “There’s something we didn’t mention by spanreed.” Kaladin frowned as Drehy returned to the fire and picked up one of the figures there. A child? In rags. Yes, a frightened little boy, maybe three or four years old, lips chapped, eyes haunted. Elhokar’s son. “We protect those,” Drehy said, “who cannot protect themselves.”

page 1212 OB

And Taravangian’s grandchildren

Quote

My grandchildren, he thought. The people of Kharbranth. The good people of the world. He trembled to think of what might happen to them all.

page 1216 OB

And the girl who Hoid/Wit rescued and gave to Kheni & Cob. (Same Cob from Mistborn - carriage driver)

Quote

“I have to leave the city,” Wit said. “And someone needs to take care of her.” He waited until, at long last, Kheni held out her arms. Wit put the child into them, then rose. Kheni’s husband took him by the arm, smiling. “Can you not stay a little longer?” “I should think you are the first to ever ask me that, Cob,” Wit said. “And in truth, the sentiment frightens me.” He hesitated, then leaned down and touched the doll in the child’s hands. “Forget what I told you before,” he whispered. “Instead, take care of her.”

I really wouldn’t be surprised if Shallan did have a child with Adolin. I keep thinking that Adolin will die and Shallan will get together with Kaladin to raise the child. Kind of a Pearl Harbor thing.  (Can’t you just see Kaladin teaching the kid to tie their first pair of boots!)

Not sure when that child will come, but I think it will happen. Still laughing at the thought of it being triplets!!!! Three babies for three different mothers!!!!

I hadn’t thought of the effects of Stormlight on a pregnancy. Very interesting ideas. It will be neat to see how they play out. 

There was some foreshadowing in OB about Shallan becoming pregnant. I remember because I didn’t imagine her as a mother at all and it startled me when I read it. It was at the end of part one where she drew herself as pregnant. I can’t find the quote now but I’ll keep looking for it  

I think we will see all these kids grown up and interact in books 6-10.

@Dreamstorm

EDIT: I found the quote. Turns out I only imagined her as pregnant. Mother & Plumper. I guess those worked in my imagination to make Shallan pregnant in the future. But if Shallan sees herself as a mother then I believe the magic will draw her towards that — just like how the Gods view themselves in WarBreaker. 

Quote

A dozen versions of herself, from drawings she’d done recently, split around her and dashed through the room. Shallan in her dress, Veil in her coat. Shallan as a child, Shallan as a youth. Shallan as a soldier, a happy wife, a mother. Leaner here, plumper there. Scarred. Bright with excitement. Bloodied and in pain. They vanished after passing her, collapsing one after another into Stormlight that curled and twisted about itself before vanishing away.

page 256 OB, Chapter 25 THE GIRL WHO LOOKED UP

 

Edited by JoyBlu
Added quote: fixed Gavinor’s ancestry
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2 hours ago, JoyBlu said:

There was some foreshadowing in OB about Shallan becoming pregnant. I remember because I didn’t imagine her as a mother at all. It was at the end of part one where she drew herself as pregnant. I can’t find the quote now but I’ll keep looking for it  

Whoa, I totally missed this. I hope you find it! There was a mention in the winehouse date in WoR where Shallan muses on the color of their children's hair, so she's definitely thinking procreation at that early juncture :P

@JoyBlu Still a mother means children! And it infers she's done a drawing of herself as a mother...

Edited by Dreamstorm
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2 hours ago, JoyBlu said:

And Gavinor, Gavilar’s son, Dalinar’s nephew

*coughs awkwardly*

I'm 101% sure it's Elhokar and Aesudan's kid and Dalinar's grandnephew

If it were Gavilar's than Dalinar would be his step-dad

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4 minutes ago, Blazenella said:

*coughs awkwardly*

I'm 101% sure it's Elhokar and Aesudan's kid and Dalinar's grandnephew

If it were Gavilar's than Dalinar would be his step-dad

Yup! You are correct. That is what I get when trying to post and make dinner at the same time. (At least I didn’t burn dinner!) 

Thanks for pointing that out. I’ll go edit it to fix it and then I will do the dishes!!!! 

 I would/should give you an upvote for catching that but I’m all out for the day — sorry. 

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9 hours ago, JoyBlu said:

A dozen versions of herself, from drawings she’d done recently, split around her and dashed through the room. Shallan in her dress, Veil in her coat. Shallan as a child, Shallan as a youth. Shallan as a soldier, a happy wife, a mother. Leaner here, plumper there. Scarred. Bright with excitement. Bloodied and in pain. They vanished after passing her, collapsing one after another into Stormlight that curled and twisted about itself before vanishing away.

page 256 OB, Chapter 25 THE GIRL WHO LOOKED UP

Yup, I think the quote you found is foreshadowing enough, along with a new generation of children being introduced throughout the books. 

Interestingly enough, if we match the roles to the descriptions based on the order they are given, it becomes even more ominous: soldier, scarred -  happy wife, bright with excitement - mother, bloodied and in pain.

I understand how young audiences can feel cringe-y with the aspect of a, probably favorite, character becoming a parent, but we don't need to project so much. It's just a story, children will not actually be harmed in the process. But I doubt the fictional ones will be harmed either.

Admittedly, it would be interesting to see how parenthood will affect sensible Adolin, mentally unstable Shallan and the marriage between them. Even more interesting to see how it will all play out, when the world burns around them. (I'm not usually malevolent. At least not this much. Usually.)

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5 hours ago, insert_anagram_here said:

Interestingly enough, if we match the roles to the descriptions based on the order they are given, it becomes even more ominous: soldier, scarred -  happy wife, bright with excitement - mother, bloodied and in pain.

Ohhhhh!!!! I like this!!!!

and @Blazenella have your upvote now! I’ve replenished some!  

I do hope we get to see Shallan be a happy wife before she faces another crisis. I also hope that her kids don’t end up killing her. 

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5 hours ago, insert_anagram_here said:

I understand how young audiences can feel cringe-y with the aspect of a, probably favorite, character becoming a parent, but we don't need to project so much.

I don't know if it is about projection, but rather about not being sure, if another character arc thread needs to be shoveled onto Shallan. She already has so much on her plate.

Personal thing: I'm not really excited to read parenting 101 from the eyes of a teen mother (Shallan is barely 18 at this point), I'd rather have more heroic stuff happen. Without wanting to imply, that mothers can't be heroes! It is just, that I think parenting needs a lot of page time to be portrayed in a satisfactory manner.

Edited by SLNC
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22 hours ago, TequilaJack said:

 

Next book was supposed to be on Eshonai, iirc? If so, it probably will be a prequel by timelines. We'll see more of Dalinar and Gavilar, but less of Kaladin, Shallan and Adolin. 

Tbh, I'm not sure Eshonai deserves a separate book. A novella like Edgedancer should suffice imo. 

The book itself will not be a prequel, Venli will probably be the the major character it follows in the present with the flashbacks being of Eshonai.

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22 minutes ago, SLNC said:

It is just, that I think parenting needs a lot of page time to be portrayed in a satisfactory manner.

This.  The closest I've seen to this being handled satisfactorily was in WoT, where the pregnancies lasted across a few books.  Even then, it was not perfect.  Yes, questions were addressed, worries for the future were expressed.  But still felt a little tacked on at times.  

 

This is a subject that even in contemporary settings brings many questions and changes to a life and lifestyle.  In an epic setting, it becomes even more game changing.  We saw hints of it, in Dalinar's flashbacks, but from all accounts, he was not a very involved parent until much later in his son's lives.

 

Handling a main character pregnancy is as delicate as handling Kaladin's depression properly.  The story cannot become a story about how the character is pregnant, making it the central aspect of their character and development any more than Kaladin could be a character that was only depressed.  He needed to be a character who happened to be depressed, and it had to have consequences that were big, but not the only aspect of his character. 

 

To clarify, I'm not saying pregnancy and depression are the same thing, or necessarily equatable.  I don't think anyone will interpret that from my statement, but I want to be clear.  I'm saying pregnancy for a main character has to be handled with as much finesse as depression does, so that it is not the only thing ever talked about the character.  Handling it off screen in the gap, would be a cop out.  Handling it on screen would have to be done with a level of care that Brandon clearly is capable of.  

 

But may not want to.  I really think that we will see Shallan and Adolin discuss this in the next book, once its been made clear to Pattern that mating is now acceptable, and decide together that right now, during a Desolation, where both of them are on the front lines is not the right storming time to have a baby.  And when they are ready, and I'm certain that they will be, I have no doubt that Brandon will give it the page time it deserves and handle it as well as he handles most subjects.

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34 minutes ago, Stark said:

The story cannot become a story about how the character is pregnant

It's not going to be about the pregnancy, I think that is exactly why there will be a one year gap.

1 hour ago, SLNC said:

I'm not really excited to read parenting 101 from the eyes of a teen mother

I'm not excited either, but intrigued. I do not think it's the ideal outcome. On the contrary, I think it's the worst case scenario and it's better to live it through an imaginary scenario than in real life. That, on it's own, has life lessons to offer.

You like to point out that Shallan is 18 and thus, kind of, inappropriate to be a mother, but I don't see how the modern social standards apply to a sort-of-medieval fantasy setting. If she is allowed of getting married at 17, having children at 18 not only seems acceptable but a natural outcome.

Women are capable of being good mothers even at 16, we surely are capable of it and it was considered normal a century ago when we weren't allowed to even pursue any other interests (or pretty much have any other choice in life). I'd like to see how this plays out for her, when she has so many other interesting things to do with her time (saving the world maybe?) and at the same time suffers psychological problems (postpartum depression cocktail). I'd like to see what happens when instead of dealing her problems herself, she anchors them, along with her mental state, on another person, because surely, that's what she is going to do.

Edited by insert_anagram_here
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On 04/01/2018 at 6:47 PM, Dreamstorm said:

Chapter 1 of Book Four:

Shallan woke up and rolled over to smile at the small bundle in the crib next to the bed. Storms, she loved her child. How could have known that the only thing she needed to heal herself was a baby? She was whole and real and had no more issues with her multiple personas. The baby had solved it all. It was a true miracle. 

:ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:

Cringe-inducing Deus-Ex-Machina as that might be, it will satisfy all the readers who don't enjoy the Shallan-going-crazy arc... ;)

And next up to resolve annoying plot threads:

Book Four, Chapter Two:

Moash felt empty inside. Leshwi flew up to him, with a mysterious smile on her face. 

"Moash- kill this adorable bunny rabbit and-"

Moash, feeling empty, agreed without listening further.

Suddenly, a grand piano fell from the sky, flattening him.

Roshar, the Cosmere, and several alternate universes rejoiced.

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On 1/4/2018 at 7:40 AM, Subvisual Haze said:

I wonder how heavy Stormlight usage would affect pregnancy or the chance of getting pregnant.

Stormlight healing seems to work by restoring your body to your self-perception of a healthy state.  Recent injuries heal better than injuries from the past, but a strong belief can also impact the healing (Kaladin always has the scars because they're part of his identity, Lopen can regrow the arm because he 100% believes he should have 2 arms). 

So if Shallan doesn't wish or expect to become pregnant, does Stormlight function like a contraceptive for her?  Since "being pregnant" is not part of how she perceives her healthy self?

You make a good point, however I doubt Brandon would approach pregnancy as if it's a disease or a wound - he didn't with mental illness. Sure, stormlight works based on one's perception, but I have difficulty imagining it as contraceptive, because what you say about women can flipped to men thus one's sperm becomes infertile because he doesn't see himself as father and that would be really weird to me.

I think it would be more like for Brandon to have a baby, even when just a bunch of cells, have all aspects - cognitive and spiritual included - and have a rule they can't be overwritten by stormlight. I just don't see a religious person treating abortion as an enhanced healing perk.

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I think the only big reason for there being a one-year gap is because of Dalinar's writing of Oathbringer. If he's gonna write an entire book by hand after just learning to read, that's gonna take quite a while to write, revise, edit, make extensive copies of, and publish to the rest of the world, at least a year. We know this from experience, and that's in the case of an already published author with unbelievable writing speed and skill. I believe that in the time that year has passed, Dalinar probably will have recently finished writing Oathbringer and published it (maybe the book will even start that way), and the book's reception will play an important part in the story. This is my main reason for believing that Adolin and Shallan will not have a child in that gap, because that is simply not the reason Brandon is spacing books 3 and 4 a year apart. Other reasons have already been listed.

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