Secret Societies of Roshar - (Spoilers likely)

[Aradel Babsk]

So when at the signing, I asked Brandon just how many secret societies were on Roshar.

The answer: THERE ARE NINE CURRENTLY WORKING.

So far, I've worked out about six. Again: Slight Spoilers!

1: The 17th Shard (Brandon Confirmed)

2: Ghostbloods

3: Mr. T and the followers of the Diagram

4: Sons of Honor

5: Skybreakers

6: Envisagers? (Teft's family)

7: ?

8: ?

9: ?

Did anyone catch any I missed?

[HydrogenAlpha Hazekiller]

I guess it's fair to say that if you have more secret societies than you have main characters ("Heroes") your country/planet is in deep chull guano.

Edit: Can you call the remaining Heralds a secret society ? I'm not sure .. how many people do you need to be accepted as secret society and where do you have to make an appointment ? Do you get a certificate or something ?

Edited March 5, 2014 by Rubix
Please watch the language

[Vortaan Ferring]

Well, Restares might not be working with any of those other 6. 

 

EDIT: Also Stone Shamans, maybe?

Edited March 5, 2014 by Vortaan

[Aradel Babsk]

Well, Restares might not be working with any of those other 6.

EDIT: Also Stone Shamans, maybe?

I'm not sure the stone shamans count. They seem to be well known in Shinovar.

[Aminar Full Shardbearer]

From the one Shin character we've met?  I'd say they count, even if they are moderatley well known in Shinovar because nobody else knows anything about them...

[Everstorm Arteth]

I wonder if he meant "secret" secret societies, or just factions that are vying for power in a game centered around the Desolation. If it is the second, then I guess two more would be Dalinar's radiants, and the Sadeas gang. 

 

Maybe the Worldsingers are the last? (If they're not in fact just an offshoot of the 17th shard.

[lordofsoup Hazekiller]

Well Nalan/Darkness definitely knows about the Stone Shamans.

[Chessboxin' Darkeyes]

This is the one aspect of the book that I really didn't like. From an in-world point of view, it makes complete sense that there would exist so many factions, but introducing so many so early in the books runs the risk of overwhelming the read and leaving them bleh. Now leaving them too late into the series' progression would make the later-introduced ones feel like late-level bosses on video games that are just dropped in your path without any emotional cotnext unless they were already established at the beginning of the series. So really, the only solution I see is to not have as many secret societies, but that's too late for that.

 

Also, is Stormlight Archive supposed to be the definitive Cosmere work that "solves Odium"? Because so far, it seems to me that if Odium is supposed to continue beyond this series, we ought to begin seeing some world-specific "bosses"(so to speak) whose defeat would allow the story to conclude all the while allowing Sanderson the opportunity to use Odium in other series set in the cosmere.

[Aminar Full Shardbearer]

This is the one aspect of the book that I really didn't like. From an in-world point of view, it makes complete sense that there would exist so many factions, but introducing so many so early in the books runs the risk of overwhelming the read and leaving them bleh. Now leaving them too late into the series' progression would make the later-introduced ones feel like late-level bosses on video games that are just dropped in your path without any emotional cotnext unless they were already established at the beginning of the series. So really, the only solution I see is to not have as many secret societies, but that's too late for that.

 

Also, is Stormlight Archive supposed to be the definitive Cosmere work that "solves Odium"? Because so far, it seems to me that if Odium is supposed to continue beyond this series, we ought to begin seeing some world-specific "bosses"(so to speak) whose defeat would allow the story to conclude all the while allowing Sanderson the opportunity to use Odium in other series set in the cosmere.

I don't think Odium is the primary issue...  If I had to guess, his destruction will cause something vastly worse...  

[DiamondMind Cobalt Guard]

Let's try and assign some motivation to all the secret groups:

 

1: The 17th Shard - Finding Hoid

 

2: Ghostbloods - Finding Urithiru, killing Heralds?? (Why?) , opposed to Sons of Honor, could be aligned with KR 

 

3: Sons of Honor (Amaram and Restares) - Starting a Desolation in order to bring back the Heralds and the Vorin Church 

 

4: Mr. T and the followers of the Diagram - Save as much of humanity as possible from the Final Desolation

 

5: Skybreakers 2.0 - Follow Nalan and his Justice

 

6: Envisagers (Teft's family) - Start a Desolation to bring back the KR

 

7: Stone Shamans - Refuse to believe that the Desolation is coming, protect the Honorblades

Edited March 6, 2014 by DiamondMind

[junior Oldblood]

5: Skybreakers

 

 

I think we need a different name for these guys.  They share the same name with an Order of Knights Radiant, probably because both groups have the same patron.  But I strongly suspect that the guys currently following the Herald of Justice aren't currently bonded with any spren.  Which would mean that if we do get a KR Skybreaker, we're going to need a way to differentiate any KR Skybreakers from the ones who are currently following the Herald.

[shdwfeather Spearman]

@junior

 

Agreed with you there. Things are further complicated by the fact that the Stone Shamans are probably the remnants of the actual Skybreakers, the original Order of the Radiants who refused to partcipate Recreance and hid themselves away.

[DiamondMind Cobalt Guard]

@junior

Agreed with you there. Things are further complicated by the fact that the Stone Shamans are probably the remnants of the actual Skybreakers, the original Order of the Radiants who refused to partcipate Recreance and hid themselves away.

How do we know that it was the skybreakers who didn't break their oaths? I thought we know one order didn't, but not which one.

[lordofsoup Hazekiller]

Im confused, I thought that the Ghostbloods and the Skybreakers might be somehow related.  Mraize says to Shallan that her brother sought out the Skybreakers, but he is working for the Ghostbloods.  Anyone clear me up?

[Azul Gyorn]

Its possible that the Envisagers and the Sons of Honor are the same group.  Their goals seem to be eactly the same.

[junior Oldblood]

Its possible that the Envisagers and the Sons of Honor are the same group.  Their goals seem to be eactly the same.

 

The thought had occurred to me as well.  However, the Envisagers exclusively focused the Bad Things on their own members.  The Sons of Honor seem to like focusing the Bad Things on other people.

[HydrogenAlpha Hazekiller]

The thought had occurred to me as well.  However, the Envisagers exclusively focused the Bad Things on their own members.  The Sons of Honor seem to like focusing the Bad Things on other people.

I like the Envisagers more, i prefer some psychos jumping from cliffs ( if they make backflips ) to guys who summon the apocalypse just to talk to 10 shiny Knights with super powers.

[DiamondMind Cobalt Guard]

Im confused, I thought that the Ghostbloods and the Skybreakers might be somehow related.  Mraize says to Shallan that her brother sought out the Skybreakers, but he is working for the Ghostbloods.  Anyone clear me up?

 

I'm assuming that he sought out the Skybreakers while being part of the Ghostbloods, meaning that the Ghostbloods don't have much information about them.

[junior Oldblood]

I would find it highly ironic if Jasnah's Father and Oldest Brother, who both appear to have fervently hated each other, were both part of the same secret society...

 

^^;;

[Gagylpus Idrian Monk]

Actually junior, if I was picking up on things right, the book hints that the Davar family has a history of involvement with the Ghostbloods. Although that could just refer to the fact that Shallan's father joined up with them some time after Helaran left, it may indicate that Shallan's mother and/or her mother's lover was involved with them.

[marianmi Arbiter]

I don't see why everyone thinks Helaran was involved with the Ghostbloods.

In book 1, Amaram/Restares think it was the ghostbloods trying to kill him, but maybe it was the skybreakers. Maybe Amaram have no idea the skybreakers exist, and thus thought of the ghostbloods.

 

It is also weird why no other skybreaker tried to kill Amaram, I would think that Heralan was there to execute justice for something amaram might have done (e.g. bring back the desolation). Thus, even with H dead, other skybreaker should pick up the justice act...

[harry31j97 Pahn Kahl]

Where does Thaidakar fit into all of this?

[JcStoneDog Awakened Object]

Gavilar is the key to three of the groups. It now seems that once he started getting the visions he brought together a group to act on them which included at least Mr. T, Amaram and the involvement (if not creation) of the Ghostbloods. Once he died we see the group splintering, Mr T goes to the Nightwatcher and forms his own group with the goal of saving some of humanity. The Sons of Honor see the need for the return of the Radients and the building up of the Church and I have no idea what the true goal of the Ghostbloods are.     

 

[junior Oldblood]

 

I have no idea what the true goal of the Ghostbloods are.     

 

 

 

I'm curious how the war between Jasnah and the Ghostbloods started.  Mraize claims that Jasnah killed several Ghostbloods, which is likely true.  But the necessary follow-up question, which isn't asked or answered, is why she did so.

 

 

 

Shallan's mother and/or her mother's lover was involved with them.

 

Just a minor item, but I'm starting to suspect that the friend of Shallan's mother wasn't actually her lover.  Rather, I suspect that was the cover story that Shallan's father concocted after Shallan killed both of them.

Edited March 6, 2014 by junior

[udbw834 Spren]

Well, Restares might not be working with any of those other 6. 

 

 

In chapter 88 Amaram is scribbling a note to Restares where he refers to "our burden as the Sons Of Honor". That suggests both Restares and Amaram are members of the Sons of Honor. 

 

In chapter 54 Mraise refers to 'Master Thaidakar' and "Restares' cronies". 

 

Based on that and I'm pretty sure that Restares is the head of the Sons of Honor and Thaidakar is the head of the Ghostbloods. The two societies know about each other an have been engaged in a secret battle behind the scenes. 

 

I also think Gavilar was a Son of Honor. I base that on what he said to Szeth in the prologue to WoK about Thaidakar and Amaram's thought that "Gavilar would be pleased."