[OB] Death Rattle analysis

[Brgst13]

My goal in this thread is to analyze the Death Rattles we have answers to, may have answers to, or have no answers to.  I have included Coppermind annotations, with my own annotations beneath in bold.  In my interpretations, I am working from the belief that the Death Rattles are entirely forward-looking.  I have numbered the Death Rattles in the order they appear in the Coppermind in order to mention links between them more easily.

1. You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me! While the sun is still hot, I die! ”

— Collected on Chachabah 1171, 10 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed soldier thirty-one years of age. Sample is considered questionable.[7]

This sample is unclear, although I speculate that this is a foreshadowing of Jezrien's murder.

2. “The love of men is a frigid thing, a mountain stream only three steps from the ice. We are his. Oh Stormfather... we are his. It is but a thousand days, and the Everstorm comes. ”

— Collected on Shashahes 1171, 31 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed pregnant woman of middle years. The child did not survive.[8]

 

It is estimated this came exactly 1229 days before the advent of the Everstorm. It is possible that these Rattles are less than fully accurate, or that whoever gave this death rattle valued poetry over technically accurate detail or, given the specific phrasing, that this was perhaps a foreshadowing to a time 229 days in the future when someone else would prophecy that it would be 1000 days until the Everstorm.

I largely agree here with the Coppermind author.  It is worth considering that the timing may be deliberately wrong since Moelach can apparently send disinformation through the Rattles.

3. “Ten orders. We were loved, once. Why have you forsaken us, Almighty! Shard of my soul, where have you gone? ”

— Collected on Kakashan 1171, 5 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a lighteyed woman in her third decade.[9]

The "ten orders" could be a reference to the Knights Radiant, and their belief that the Almighty had abandoned them could have led to the Day of Recreance.

I think in this case the subject is clearly a Knight Radiant.  "Shard of my soul" is likely in reference to a spren.  Little else can be inferred here, although I disagree with the idea that this refers to the Recreance, as Death Rattles seem to be forward-looking rather that backward.

4. “A man stood on a cliffside and watched his homeland fall into dust. The waters surged beneath, so far beneath. And he heard a child crying. They were his own tears. ”

— Collected on Tanatesev 1171, 30 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a cobbler of some renown.[10]

Unclear at this point who this refers to.  I theorize that this is either Dalinar overlooking the destruction of Kholinar or a future version of Taravangian watching Kharbranth being destroyed.

5. “I'm dying, aren't I? Healer, why do you take my blood? Who is that beside you, with his head of lines? I can see a distant sun, dark and cold, shining in a black sky. ”

— Collected on Jesanach 1172, 11 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a Reshi chull trainer. Sample is of particular note.[11]

This rattle appears to reference Shadesmar, based on the description of the sun and sky, and a Cryptic.

I agree with the analysis of the author here.  However, I would go farther and suggest that there is either a Lightweaver among the Silent Gatherers or that Vedel is among them.  Given the twisting of the Heralds and Vedel's association with love and healing, this would make sense.

6. “I have seen the end, and have heard it named. The Night of Sorrows, the True Desolation. The Everstorm. ”

— Collected on Naneses 1172, 15 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed youth of unknown origin.[12]

7. “I'm cold. Mother, I'm cold. Mother? Why can I still hear the rain? Will it stop? ”

— Collected on Vevishes 1172, 32 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a lighteyed female child, approximately six years old.[13]

These two seem to be general predictions of the Everstorm.

8. “They are aflame. They burn. They bring the darkness when they come, and so all you can see is that their skin is aflame. Burn, burn, burn... ”

— Collected on Palahishev 1172, 21 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a baker's apprentice.[14]

Refers to the properties of Stormform Parshendi, particularly the part about burning.  Their skin is black and red, easily described as aflame.

9. “Victory! We stand atop the mount! We scatter them before us! Their homes become our dens, their lands are now our farms! And they shall burn, as we once did, in a place that is hollow and forlorn. ”

— Collected on Ishashan 1172, 18 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a lighteyed spinster of the eighth dahn.[15]

This rattle appears to refer to humans conquering Roshar and exiling the Dawnsingers to Braize.

I disagree with the author here.  Again, I see Death Rattles as a forward-looking mechanism.  This to me represents the Fused describing their plan for the world as they drive humans back.

10. “Ten people, with Shardblades alight, standing before a wall of black and white and red. ”

— Collected on Jesachev 1173, 12 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject an ardent member of the the Silent Gatherers, overheard during his last moments.[16]

This to me represents the defense of Thaylenah.  The ten would be Dalinar, Kaladin, Szeth, Lift, Teft, Jasnah, Shallan, Renarin, Ash, and Taln.  You could easily also argue Venli to replace either Ash or Taln.  

11. “Three of sixteen ruled, but now the Broken One reigns. ”

— Collected on Chachanan 1173, 84 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a cutpurse with the wasting sickness, of partial Iriali descent.[17]

This rattle apparently refers to the sixteen Shards of Adonalsium, three of which (Honor, Cultivation, and Odium) are invested in Roshar.

Here I 100% agree with the author.

12. “I'm standing over the body of a brother. I'm weeping. Is that his blood or mine? What have we done? ”

— Collected on Vevanev 1173, 107 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was an out-of-work Veden sailor.[18]

Unknown.  May represent a future division in an order of the Knights Radiant.

13. “He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear! ”

— Collected on Vevahach 1173, 8 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a prostitute of unknown background.[19]

I think this refers to Dalinar.  The title is Bondsmith.  The tower is Urithiru, the crown is Dalinar's position as overking.  The spear I do not have an explanation for as yet.

14. “The burdens of nine become mine. Why must I carry the madness of them all? Oh, Almighty, release me. ”

— Observed on Palaheses 1173, collected secondhand and later reported to the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a wealthy lighteyes.[20]

This rattle appears to be from the perspective of the Herald Talenel, the only Herald to be return, through death, to wherever the Heralds went to be tortured between Desolations at the end of the Last Desolation.

This foreshadows Taln's breaking under torture and beginning the Desolation.

15. “A woman sits and scratches out her own eyes. Daughter of kings and winds, the vandal. ”

— Collected on Palahevan 1173, 73 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a beggar of some renown, known for his elegant songs.[21]

This rattle is believed to refer to the Herald Shalash, the daughter of the Herald Jezrien, Herald of Kings and patron of the Order of Windrunners.[22] Shalash is also Baxil's mistress who destroys art, including depictions of a specific Herald, believed to be those of Shalash herself.

This sample is particularly interesting.  If the Rattles are really forward-looking, this suggests that Shalash has recently started her destruction of artwork.  Given that Ishar has only recently ignited a religious war, and that statues of Shalash still exist (as they would likely not after 4,000 years of focused destruction), what have the Heralds been doing and where have they been between the last Desolation and now?

16. “Light grows so distant. The storm never stops. I am broken, and all around me have died. I weep for the end of all things. He has won. Oh, he has beaten us. ”

— Collected on Palahakev 1173, 16 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a Thaylen sailor.[23]

This may be a description of the coming of the Everstorm, but I believe that this is more likely a future event.

17. “I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who live wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it gain us further breath to draw. ”

— Collected on Shashanan 1173, 23 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed youth of sixteen years. Sample is of particular note.[24]

Unknown as yet, but likely to refer to a climatic event.

18. “Re-Shephir, the Midnight Mother, giving birth to abominations with her essence so dark, so terrible, so consuming. She is here! She watches me die! ”

— Collected on Shashabev 1173, 8 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed dock-worker in his forties, father of three.[25]

Foreshadowing of the murders in Urithiru by the Midnight Essence.  This could actually be a description of Sadeas' death, as it is the first to be mimicked.

19. “The death is my life, the strength becomes my weakness, the journey has ended. ”

— Observed on Betabanes, 1173, 95 seconds pre-death, collected secondhand and later reported to the the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a scholar of some minor renown. Sample considered questionable.[26]

This rattle appears to reference the First Ideal of the Knights Radiant: Life before Death. Strength before Weakness. Journey before Destination.

Agreed.  Sample may also be a prediction of a Knight Radiant breaking their vows, or Taln breaking under torture on Braize.

20. “Above the final void I hang, friends behind, friends before. The feast I must drink clings to their faces, and the words I must speak spark in my mind. The old oaths will be spoken anew. ”

— Collected on Betabanan 1173, 45 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a lighteyed child of five years. Diction improved remarkably when giving sample.[27]

This rattle appears to be from the perspective of Kaladin during the Battle of the Tower, moments before he swears the Second Ideal of the Windrunners. The "final void" is a chasm over which he is jumping. The "friends behind, friends before" are the members of Bridge Four behind him and the army of Dalinar Kholin trapped by Parshendi before him. The "feast I must drink" is Stormlight stored in the gemstones knotted into the malen Parshendi's beards. The "words I must speak" is the Second Ideal. The "old oaths" are the Immortal Words.

Agreed.  Very clear interpretation here.

21. “In the storm I awaken, falling, spinning, grieving. ”

— Collected on Kakanev 1173, 13 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a city guardsman.[28]

This may refer to Szeth during his fight with Kaladin.  He falls, spinning through the storm.  He grieves for his actions.  He is awakened in the storm by Nale when he is revived.

22. “The darkness becomes a palace. Let it rule! Let it rule! ”

— Collected on Kakevah 1173, 22 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed Selay man of unknown profession.[29]

This refers to the corruption of the Queen of Alethkar by Yelig-nar.

23. “I wish to sleep. I know now why you do what you do, and I hate you for it. I will not speak of the truths I see. ”

— Collected on Kakashah 1173, 142 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a Shin sailor, left behind by his crew, reportedly for bringing them ill luck. Sample largely useless.[30]

Subject may be resisting speaking their visions because they understand what the Silent Gatherers are doing.

24. “They come from the pit, two dead men, a heart in their hands, and I know that I have seen true glory. ”

— Collected on Kakashah 1173, 13 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a rickshaw puller.[31]

This rattle appears to refer to Kaladin and Shallan Davar returning to the Warcamps at the Shattered Plains following an ill-fated expedition. The "pit" is a reference to the chasms. the "two dead men" are Kaladin and Shallan, presumed to be dead after falling into a chasm. The "heart" is an emerald gemheart they harvested from a chasmfiend they encountered and killed on their return journey.

Very straightforward interpretation.

25. “I see them. They are the rocks. They are the vengeful spirits. Eyes of red. ”

— Collected on Kakakes 1173, 8 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed young woman of fifteen who was reportedly mentally unstable since childhood.[32]

This rattle refers to the awakening of Thunderclasts.[33]

This is further reinforced in Oathbringer, where the "vengeful spirits" are the mindless Fused.

26. “That chanting, that singing, those rasping voices. ”

— Collected on Kaktach 1173, 16 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a middle-aged potter who reported seeing strange dreams during highstorms during the previous two years.[34]

Possibly referencing the events at the end of Words of Radiance, and the summoning of the Everstorm.

The most logical interpretation so far.

27. “Let me no longer hurt! Let me no longer weep! Dai-gonarthis! The Black Fisher holds my sorrow and consumes it! ”

— Collected on Tanatesach 1173, 28 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed female street juggler.[35]

The Silent Gatherers have noted a similarity between this death rattle and one they denote as "sample 1172-89".

Unclear.  May suggest that Dai-Gonarthis is an Unmade that draws strength from sorrow and pain.

28. “They named it the Final Desolation, but they lied. Our gods lied. Oh, how they lied. The Everstorm comes. I hear its whispers, see its stormwall, know its heart. ”

— Collected on Tanatanes 1173, 8 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was an Azish itinerant worker. Sample of particular note.[36]

Straightforward prediction of the Everstorm.

29. “All is withdrawn for me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds. ”

— Collected on Tanatanev 1173, 18 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed mother of four in her sixty-second year.[37]

Refers to Kaladin saving the king from Moash during the storm.

I am forced to disagree with this interpretation.  While it could be argued that Moash saved Kaladin's life, the description "the one who killed my promises" seems to not fit Elkohar very well.  Kaladin also does not raise his hand until after the Stormfather and Syl have a minor disagreement.  I personally feel that this fits Dalinar much better, as he is the one most likely to be able to make a storm respond by raising his hand.  Also, the "All is withdrawn for me" section seems more inline with an Ascended Dalinar than Kaladin defending Elkohar.

30. “Above silence, the illuminating storms—dying storms—illuminate the silence above. ”

— Collected on Tanatanev 1173, 18 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was an illiterate Herdazian.[6]

Refers to the collision of the Everstorm and highstorm at the end of Words of Radiance.

31. “He watches! The Black piper in the night. He holds us in his palm... playing a tune that no man can hear! ”

— Observed circa 1172. Subject was Cenn, a member of Kaladin's squad in Brightlord Meridas Amaram's army.[38]

This likely refers to one of the Unmade, possibly Dai-gonarthis.  Further analysis is impossible at this point.  Possibly connected to 27.

32. “They break the land itself! They want it, but in their rage they will destroy it. Like the jealous man burns his rich things rather than let them be taken by his enemies! They come! ”

— Observed circa 1173. Subject was Gadol, a member of Bridge Four.[39]

Refers to the soul of the Fused, destroying the whole world in order to destroy the humankind.[40]

This may also relate to Dalinar's vision of the world crumbling.  This may be one possible outcome of the war.

33. “And all the world was shattered! The rocks trembled with their steps, and the stones reached toward the heavens. We die! We die! ”

— Observed circa 1173. Subject was Maps, a member of Bridge Four.[41]

See also 32.  These are likely related.

34. “The day was ours, but they took it. Stormfather! You cannot have it. The day is ours. They come, rasping, and the lights fail. Oh, Stormfather! ”

— Collected circa Tanat 1173 by Taravangian. Subject was a young boy.[5]

May refer to the final battle at the end of Words of Radiance.  If not, likely foreshadows a future battle.

35. “So the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life... ”

— Observed circa Ishi 1173 by Taravangian. Subject was King Valam of Jah Keved.[4]

Prediction that someone will be allowed to live and therefore Odium will win a victory.  Possibly connected to 17.

---

[Doomdrinker]

I disagree with your interpretation of 10.

In the defence of Thaylenah Shallan never actaully summons her blade, Ash and taln don't even have shardblades And Venli doesn't say her first oath until after the battle. 

 

Also do you mind explaining why you think the death rattles are entirely forward-looking?

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

Nice summation, and it's nice to see these re-examined.

2 hours ago, Brgst13 said:

22. “The darkness becomes a palace. Let it rule! Let it rule! ”

— Collected on Kakevah 1173, 22 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed Selay man of unknown profession.[29]

This refers to the corruption of the Queen of Alethkar by Yelig-nar.

This one could also be referring to that mysterious black castle that Dalinar sees rising from the Purelake during one of his visions.

18 minutes ago, Doomdrinker said:

Also do you mind explaining why you think the death rattles are entirely forward-looking?

This entry from Hessi's Mythica about Moleach is pretty clear:

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Moelach was said to grant visions of the future at different times—but most commonly at the transition point between realms. When a soul was nearing the Tranquiline Halls.

 

[kenod]

Your idea that the death rattles are forward-looking and that on of the death rattles refers to the black castle don't mesh. Unless death rattles can look into visions, they must be able to show the past. Being able to show the past during select circumstances wouldn't even be that surprising, as future vision works by viewing the spiritual realm, and viewing the past should be equally doable because it would work through the same mechanisms. While it is possible that Moelach normally shows the future, it seems like some of the rattles transfer more general knowledge, instead of specific visions, with knowledge of events in the past being part of this.

Edit: Just looked through the arcanum, and it seems nobody actually asked about this. Maybe something for the next signing?

Edited December 30, 2017 by kenod

[Ryder]

4 hours ago, Brgst13 said:

3. “Ten orders. We were loved, once. Why have you forsaken us, Almighty! Shard of my soul, where have you gone? ”

I agree this sounds like it's from the perspective of the KR, but I've wondered if it might refer to Ash's response to the death of Jezrien: 

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Ash stopped in place as something ripped inside of her.
Oh God. Oh, Adonalsium!
What was that? What was that?
Taln whimpered and collapsed, a puppet with cut strings. Ash stumbled, then sank to her knees. She wrapped her arms around herself, trembling. It wasn’t pain. It was something far, far worse. A loss, a hole inside of her, a piece of her soul being excised.

The "shard of my soul" would then be talking about the connection between the souls of the heralds being severed.  This might also hold as I'm guessing more heralds will be killed off in future books, so it might be a response to the death of a herald that we haven't seen yet.

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

1 hour ago, kenod said:

Your idea that the death rattles are forward-looking and that on of the death rattles refers to the black castle don't mesh. Unless death rattles can look into visions, they must be able to show the past.

My thought was that the ominous black castle viewed in Dalinar's vision might at some point in the future rise again from the purelake.

Here's a quote from Dalinar's vision in WoR that @Wit Beyond Measure pulled out for the Secrets to Parshendi Forms, Thunderclasts, & Urithiru thread:

On 12/27/2017 at 3:34 PM, Wit Beyond Measure said:

The group ran toward some kind of large rock mound ahead, shadowed in the dusk. Maybe this wasn’t the Purelake. It didn’t have rock formations like—

That wasn’t a rock mound. It was a fortress. Dalinar halted, looking up at the peaked, castle-like structure that rose straight from the still lake waters. He’d never seen its like before. Jet-black stone. Obsidian? Perhaps this place had been Soulcast.

“There’s a fortress ahead,” he said, continuing forward. “It must not still exist— if it did, it would be famous. It looks like it’s created entirely from obsidian. Finlike sides rising toward peaked tips above, towers like arrowheads . . . Stormfather. It’s majestic.

The physical description of the fortress matches how water manifests in Shadesmar (like black obsidian), and the fact that it rises out of the purelake makes me think that it might be some sort of magical projection from the Cognitive Realm. I think this castle sounds freaking rad, and the real reason for my interpretation of the Death Rattle is that I would really love to see this in a future SLA book.

 

[.S.A.M.K.M]

We have all these warnings that seeing of the future is of odium, but the thing is apparently renarin can use it for his people. So in the right circumstances odium power can be used against him.

[Varion]

I believe these three are linked and refer directly to a pivotal event in Taravangian's future. I present them here not in the order in which they were recorded, but in the ordrr in which I think the future events will play out. Note that the last one recorded was said directly to Taravangian.

5 hours ago, Brgst13 said:

17. “I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who live wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it gain us further breath to draw. ”

— Collected on Shashanan 1173, 23 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed youth of sixteen years. Sample is of particular note.[24]

 

5 hours ago, Brgst13 said:

35. “So the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life... ”

— Observed circa Ishi 1173 by Taravangian. Subject was King Valam of Jah Keved.[4]

 

5 hours ago, Brgst13 said:

4. “A man stood on a cliffside and watched his homeland fall into dust. The waters surged beneath, so far beneath. And he heard a child crying. They were his own tears. ”

— Collected on Tanatesev 1171, 30 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a cobbler of some renown

I think these show three critical, and sequential moments in Taravangian's future. It appears to predict that Taravangian's bargain with Odium to save his city and its people will hinge on killing a baby, or not. 

The first rattle lays out the choice: kill this baby and give his people "further breath to draw." I think it particularly noteworthy that this rattle is considered "of particular note" by the Silent Gatherers. It's possible that the Diagram helped them recognise this as referring to Taravangian. 

The second rattle predicts the moment if choice for Taravangian. And it seems that his compassion will win out. A big boost to all those theorists who think the most important part of Taravangian's boon from Cultivation was his compassion, not his intelligence. It's interesting that this rattle was spoken directly to Taravangian. Did he recognise it for what it was? Is it to be trusted? Is it some sort of psych out by Moeloch?

And the third one shows the result of the choice. The fall of Kharbranth. The child crying in the background confirms that he spared its life, while Taravangian's tears tell us that this all happened on a compassionate day. 

Clearly, if my theory here is accurate, then most of the details are unknown to us yet. We don't know who the child is yet. We don't know why Taravangian has been asked to kill it, although it seems safe to assume that it was Odium making the demand. We don't even know if the child is important in their own right, or whether it's more of a symbolic sacrifice. I'll be paying close attention to any new born children in the next book though ... 

[Aon Ati]

I have to applaud your work. Even if some of these turn out to be wrong, it is still cool that you made your own educated guesses about them.

[Stormlightning]

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10. “Ten people, with Shardblades alight, standing before a wall of black and white and red. ”

10. I would replace Teft with Venli. Just so we have [what will ultimately be] all the Orders when Ash switches (I'm on that boat).

Quote

13. “He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear! ”

13. I think this refers to Kaladin, even though the tower and crown initially sound like Dalinar. I think Kaladin is eventually going to need to become King of all Radiants like Jezrien.

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15. “A woman sits and scratches out her own eyes. Daughter of kings and winds, the vandal. ”

15. It hurts me to even theorize it, but if these all have to be forward-looking, I fear this could be a reference to Syl. Perhaps voluntarily breaking her connection to Kaladin and becoming a deadeye?

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29. “All is withdrawn for me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds. ”

29. I'm also tempted to believe this one is more complicated than Moash and Elhokar, but the fact that the chapter in WoR where Elhokar throws Kaladin in jail is titled "The One Who Killed My Promises" makes me torn. I feel like because of that, it has to refer to Elhokar.

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31. “He watches! The Black piper in the night. He holds us in his palm... playing a tune that no man can hear! ”

31. Seems to be a reference to the rhythms, which 'no man can hear', but the parshendi can. The black piper would be the one who makes those rhythms. Or it's something sneaky with Wit and his flute.

Quote

32. “They break the land itself! They want it, but in their rage they will destroy it. Like the jealous man burns his rich things rather than let them be taken by his enemies! They come! ”

33. “And all the world was shattered! The rocks trembled with their steps, and the stones reached toward the heavens. We die! We die! ”

32. - 33. May refer to an eventual betrayal by the entire order of Dustbringers, or maybe Stonewards.

 

I really like most of your interpretations. Good insights!

Edited December 31, 2017 by Stormlightning
Edited for clarity

[Dlyol]

On whether Death Rattles are entirely forward looking I don't see why that would be the case. Future sight in the Cosmere comes from accessing the Spiritual Realm, in which there is no time, thus enabling you to see things that have yet to happen. But because there is no time you can also see things that have already happened and without external reference its not clear whether you could tell the difference. If it is the case that all the Death Rattles are forward looking Moelach would have to consciously make this so and I don't see what motivation he would have to do that - misinformation I suppose but surely giving useless information about the past is better than misleading information about the future. I agree that most of the Death Rattles are probably forward looking for the meta reason that most of the SA happens after WOK and they function as foreshadowing but Brandon could just as easily have wanted to foreshadow reveals about the past such as we got in this book

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

12 minutes ago, Stormlightning said:

Quote

13. “He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear! ”

13. I think this refers to Kaladin, even though the tower and crown initially sound like Dalinar. I think Kaladin is eventually going to need to become King of all Radiants like Jezrien.

Totally agree that this is about Kaladin and it does seem to hint that he might be slated to be the new Herald to replace Jezrien. Here's some analysis about what the tower and crown possibly refer to. Kaladin saves Dalinar at the Tower on the Shattered Plains and he saves Elhokar (the crown) from Moash and the assassins. The spear is an obvious symbol for Kaladin.

These death rattles are so well written. They have a strangely compelling mixture of vague specificity and they are all incredibly dark metaphors. Brilliant stuff really.

[Brgst13]

I really like the idea of Kaladin replacing Jezrien as the King of the Heralds.  That actually makes perfect sense based on his character, and it makes this Rattle fit in context.

[Brgst13]

4 hours ago, Stormlightning said:

15. It hurts me to even theorize it, but if these all have to be forward-looking, I fear this could be a reference to Syl. Perhaps voluntarily breaking her connection to Kaladin and becoming a deadeye?

I dont think this has to be about Syl.  Shalash continues vandalizing artwork even through Oathbringer.  Also, she fits better with "daughter of kings and winds".  Jezrien (her father) was both a king and the Windrunner herald.

[RShara]

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12. “I'm standing over the body of a brother. I'm weeping. Is that his blood or mine? What have we done? ”

— Collected on Vevanev 1173, 107 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was an out-of-work Veden sailor.[18]

Do you think this could refer to Moash fighting Kaladin at the end of WoR?

[+ILuvHats]

23 hours ago, Stormlightning said:

15. It hurts me to even theorize it, but if these all have to be forward-looking, I fear this could be a reference to Syl. Perhaps voluntarily breaking her connection to Kaladin and becoming a deadeye?

I love this interpretation!  A lot of people seem to be thinking this refers to Shalash, but this makes a lot of sense too.  Syl is an honor Spren, so there’s an obvious connection to the wind.  She’s also considered almost royal in Shadesmar, so that kind of connects to the king part.  Maybe it’s stretching it a little, but it’s an awesome and original idea.

[Varion]

On 31/12/2017 at 2:49 AM, Stormlightning said:

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31. “He watches! The Black piper in the night. He holds us in his palm... playing a tune that no man can hear! ”

31. Seems to be a reference to the rhythms, which 'no man can hear', but the parshendi can. The black piper would be the one who makes those rhythms. Or it's something sneaky with Wit and his flute.

We have WoB that the Black Piper is not Hoid :

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Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

So, when Cenn dies, and he says "The Black Piper in the night, he holds us in the palm, playing a tune no man can hear." Is that a reference to Hoid?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

No. Good question!

After WoK, I was sure this rattle was referring to the Rhythms, suggesting that they came from the Black Piper. But there was a problem with that theory. There are two different sets of Rhythms: The old rhythms that the Listeners are attuned to; and the new, more hateful Rhythms, that come with the forms of power. Which means either there are two, separate sources of the rhythms, or there is only one source, and they are somehow being corrupted when the Listeners take on a form of power. Either way, my theory (and I think many other people's theory) was that the Black Piper was an Unmade, responsible for either corrupting the signal, or producing an Odius counter-signal. The question left unanswered here is "Where do the old Rhythms come from?" I think @Steeldancer provides by far the best explanation for the Rhythms, buried deep within his seriously impressive thesis on the Spiritual Realm (read it all if you haven't already, it's brilliant). Here's how he described the Rhythms in the essay:

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The Rhythms are likely Spiritual pulses, ideals of particular emotions. This probably comes from making small emotional connections to these Ideals, which then have this “rhythm” of investiture flow. How this works is not entirely clear. 

As I understand it, these spiritual pulses escape the SR, and reach the Listeners, filtered through the CR via their spren bonds, until they can be heard as Rhythms, resonating with their own emotions. The language used by Eshonia and Venli to describe interacting with the Rhythms is reminiscent of "tuning" into a radio, and "cycling" through the frequencies. If you've played with an old crystal radio, then the idea of a spren in a gemheart acting like a detector is an easy analogy to make. 

@Calderis does a good job of explaining this, and why the rhythms are received differently when Listeners bond voidspren and adopt forms of power.  

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As to the rhythms, they don't come from Odium, they are a phenomenon of the spiritual realm that manifests differently on Roshar. If every one of those rhythms, when filtered through something that's been corrupted by Odium is tinged with hate, I think that that is a sign of his true nature. He didn't create new rhythms, and he didn't choose what they were. They are just colored by the intent they pass through. 

Source: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/62430-ob-odium-and-dalinar-and-honor-and-cultivation/?do=findComment&comment=649064

Which is all incredibly fascinating, but doesn't really help us with our Black Piper problem. If the Black Piper isn't required to create or corrupt the rhythms, then what in Damnation is the tune he's playing? I have no idea. Any thoughts?

Edited January 1, 2018 by Varion

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

6 minutes ago, Varion said:

As I understand it, these spiritual pulses escape the SR, and reach the Listeners, filtered through the CR via their spren bonds, until they can be heard as Rhythms, resonating with their own emotions. The language used by Eshonia and Venli to describe interacting with the Rhythms is reminiscent of "tuning" into a radio, and "cycling" through the frequencies. If you've played with an old crystal radio, then the idea of a spren in a gemheart acting like a detector is an easy analogy to make. 

Some very nice analysis @Varion, but how I've always read the Singer rhythms is that they are pre-defined modes of communication that have a resonant effect. What I mean by that is that an individual Singer has volitional control over what rhythm they attune to express the emotional content of what they are trying to express. So the rhythm is a qualifier, like an extra shared emphasis that conveys emotional intent. So using your radio analogy, if a Singer accidentally bumped into someone they have a choice of which radio station they tune to have playing in the background that adds additional context to their statement that the Singer implicitly understands. So taking this example further, if their response to the Singer they bumped into is "Sorry" and they have attuned the Rhythm of Peace, their radio station would be tuned to easy listening Jazz and the Singer they bumped into would have this extra emotion-centric information to interpret their statement, and realize it was just an accident. But if they said the same thing attuned to the Rhythm of Derision, their radio Station would be tuned to a death metal or punk rock station and the emotional intent of piss-off implicit in this attuning would be conveyed.

Honestly I'll have to think some more on this, just read a WoB that is very interesting and relevant to this discussion.

Spoiler

Nepene

You've mentioned several philosophical concepts used in the writing of your books, like Jung's collective unconsciousness, Plato's cave. Could you expand a bit on your use of those in your books, and whether you think it is necessary to use philosophy to make a good fantasy world?

Brandon Sanderson

I don't think it's necessary at all. The writer's own fascinations--whatever they are--can add to the writing experience. But yes, some philosophical ideas worked into my fiction. Plato's theory of the forms has always fascinated, and so the idea of a physical/cognitive/spiritual realm is certainly a product of this. Human perception of ideals has a lot to do with the cognitive realm, and a true ideal has a lot to do with the spiritual realm.

As for more examples, they're spread through my fiction. Spinoza is in there a lot, and Jung has a lot to do with the idea of spiritual connectivity (and how the Parshendi can all sing the same songs.)

Nepene

Not completely sure where Spinoaza comes in. I guess the shards are part of the natural world and have no personality without a human wielder.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes on Spinoza there, and also the idea of God being in everything, and everything of one substance. Unifying laws. Those sorts of things. (Less his determinism, though.)

 

[IntentAwesome]

 

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1. You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me! While the sun is still hot, I die! ”

— Collected on Chachabah 1171, 10 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed soldier thirty-one years of age. Sample is considered questionable.[7]

This sample is unclear, although I speculate that this is a foreshadowing of Jezrien's murder.

 

I have always interpreted this as another hospital victim who has figured out what T's crew are doing.

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9. “Victory! We stand atop the mount! We scatter them before us! Their homes become our dens, their lands are now our farms! And they shall burn, as we once did, in a place that is hollow and forlorn. ”

— Collected on Ishashan 1172, 18 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a lighteyed spinster of the eighth dahn.[15]

This rattle appears to refer to humans conquering Roshar and exiling the Dawnsingers to Braize.

I disagree with the author here.  Again, I see Death Rattles as a forward-looking mechanism.  This to me represents the Fused describing their plan for the world as they drive humans back.

 

I agree that this doesn't refer to the humans conquering from Roshar. For one, humans don't typically refer to their homes as dens. But do the Singers? Actually, I think the characters most likely to refer to their homes as dens are the Sleepless. And we know they did something they want to be redeemed from, from the cover of WoK. 

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10. “Ten people, with Shardblades alight, standing before a wall of black and white and red. ”

— Collected on Jesachev 1173, 12 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject an ardent member of the the Silent Gatherers, overheard during his last moments.[16]

This to me represents the defense of Thaylenah.  The ten would be Dalinar, Kaladin, Szeth, Lift, Teft, Jasnah, Shallan, Renarin, Ash, and Taln.  You could easily also argue Venli to replace either Ash or Taln.  

 

This is interesting, because if it really refers to the battle at Thaylenah, then it shows that the Rattles can be (at least slightly) inaccurate, since Ash and Taln didn't really do anything, Malata was MIA, and Venli too wasn't really part of the fight against the Singers/Fused.

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13. “He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear! ”

— Collected on Vevahach 1173, 8 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a prostitute of unknown background.[19]

I think this refers to Dalinar.  The title is Bondsmith.  The tower is Urithiru, the crown is Dalinar's position as overking.  The spear I do not have an explanation for as yet.

 

As others have said, I'm pretty sure this is Kaladin. We know the tower and crown are part of the Kholin banner. If Kaladin were to start his own has underneath the Kholin banner, it makes a lot of sense that the spear would be Kaladin's personalization. Nobody else is as symbolized by the spear as Kaladin is. Unfortunately, I've always taken this as the strongest evidence that Kaladin will die. Since a banner often falls when that leader dies.

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19. “The death is my life, the strength becomes my weakness, the journey has ended. ”

— Observed on Betabanes, 1173, 95 seconds pre-death, collected secondhand and later reported to the the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a scholar of some minor renown. Sample considered questionable.[26]

This rattle appears to reference the First Ideal of the Knights Radiant: Life before Death. Strength before Weakness. Journey before Destination.

Agreed.  Sample may also be a prediction of a Knight Radiant breaking their vows, or Taln breaking under torture on Braize.

 

I think this refers to Elhokar's death, actually, since his journey ended in the midst of swearing the first ideal.

 

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29. “All is withdrawn for me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds. ”

— Collected on Tanatanev 1173, 18 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed mother of four in her sixty-second year.[37]

Refers to Kaladin saving the king from Moash during the storm.

I am forced to disagree with this interpretation.  While it could be argued that Moash saved Kaladin's life, the description "the one who killed my promises" seems to not fit Elkohar very well.  Kaladin also does not raise his hand until after the Stormfather and Syl have a minor disagreement.  I personally feel that this fits Dalinar much better, as he is the one most likely to be able to make a storm respond by raising his hand.  Also, the "All is withdrawn for me" section seems more inline with an Ascended Dalinar than Kaladin defending Elkohar.

 

I agree with the Coppermind on this one. Every part of this statement occurs in that scene. Syl--and thus stormlight--have been withdrawn from Kal because of his failure to keep the oaths. Kaladin often refers to Bridge Four, and thus Moash, as having saved his life. Kaladin literally raises his hand in the scene, and gets Syl--and thus stormlight, which Kaladin often refers to as a personal storm--back. The hardest part to fit is the one who killed my promises, but considering the chapter heading where Kaladin learns of Elhokar's role in the Roshone affair--is titled "the one who kills promises (as Stormlightning mentions), I think it is pretty clear that it refers to Elhokar.

[Blazenella]

On 12/30/2017 at 0:56 PM, Brgst13 said:

17. “I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who live wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it gain us further breath to draw. ”

— Collected on Shashanan 1173, 23 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed youth of sixteen years. Sample is of particular note.[24]

Unknown as yet, but likely to refer to a climatic event.

 

Prediction that someone will be allowed to live and therefore Odium will win a victory.  Possibly connected to 17.

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I believe that this is referencing Jasnah and Renarin due to the fact that Renarin is helpless (Stuck in vision and with a Shardblade at his neck) has a corrupted spren (Which will probably cause some conflict later in the series)

Also with someone being allowed to live *cough* Renarin *cough*

[Varion]

4 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Some very nice analysis @Varion, but how I've always read the Singer rhythms is that they are pre-defined modes of communication that have a resonant effect. What I mean by that is that an individual Singer has volitional control over what rhythm they attune to express the emotional content of what they are trying to express. So the rhythm is a qualifier, like an extra shared emphasis that conveys emotional intent. So using your radio analogy, if a Singer accidentally bumped into someone they have a choice of which radio station they tune to have playing in the background that adds additional context to their statement that the Singer implicitly understands. So taking this example further, if their response to the Singer they bumped into is "Sorry" and they have attuned the Rhythm of Peace, their radio station would be tuned to easy listening Jazz and the Singer they bumped into would have this extra emotion-centric information to interpret their statement, and realize it was just an accident. But if they said the same thing attuned to the Rhythm of Derision, their radio Station would be tuned to a death metal or punk rock station and the emotional intent of piss-off implicit in this attuning would be conveyed.

Honestly I'll have to think some more on this, just read a WoB that is very interesting and relevant to this discussion.

Yes! I agree completely with this. The Rhythms are pre-defined, in the sense that they originate from a universal set of emotional ideas within the Spiritual Realm (a very Platonic idea). And they have become a mode of communication for the Singers, who are able to hum the rhythms, and incorporate them into their speech patterns. Yes, individual Singers have control over which rhythm they attune at any time, either to communicate an emotion externally, or to help reinforce or change their own emotional state. We see this many times as Eshonai or Venli make conscious choices to attune one rhythm or another to give greater emotional context to their words. 

I assume the it's the Jungian idea of the Collective Unconscious that is being referred to in the WoB. In psychoanalytical language, that would make the Rhythms, or the emotional ideals they represent, to be "archaic remnants"or "archetypes" that provide an innate mental structure that is the common inheritance of all sapient minds (Jung would say human minds, but he didn't know about the Parshendi ;-) ). I'm cautious attributing too much direct correlation between the Rhythms and Jungian theory, since Brandon only mentioned it as an inspiration, not a firm template, but it the similarities are definitely striking. Jung believed that the Collective Unconscious was a secondary system, sitting below our immediate, individual unconscious. Our individual unconscious is built through personal experience, and is the primary driver of our immediate emotional responses and thoughts, while the Collective Unconscious comprises the entire history of consciousness, and exerts a constant pull on the individual back towards the primal paths of the mind.

This has some pretty serious implications for the Singers. In humans, the Collective Unconscious can only be accessed secondarily, though dreams, or symbol readings, for example. But the Singers have a direct link to these ideals, and can consciously attune themselves to them. This certainly has benefits, both for the individual and for the society, allowing for much higher levels of social cohesion. But by increasing the immediate influence of the archaic emotional ideals on the Singers, it also sets limitations on individual freedoms. Furthermore, it trains them to defer to and align with the emotional ideals over their personal experience and individual unconscious. Viewed like this, the corruption of the Rhythms is an extremely insidious act, because the Singers are predisposed to trust the Rhythms and adapt to those mental structures, rather than question them. 

[Fulminato]

On 30/12/2017 at 7:56 PM, Brgst13 said:

My goal in this thread is to analyze the Death Rattles we have answers to, may have answers to, or have no answers to.  I have included Coppermind annotations, with my own annotations beneath in bold.  In my interpretations, I am working from the belief that the Death Rattles are entirely forward-looking.  I have numbered the Death Rattles in the order they appear in the Coppermind in order to mention links between them more easily.

1. You've killed me. Bastards, you've killed me! While the sun is still hot, I die! ”

— Collected on Chachabah 1171, 10 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed soldier thirty-one years of age. Sample is considered questionable.[7]

This sample is unclear, although I speculate that this is a foreshadowing of Jezrien's murder.

9. “Victory! We stand atop the mount! We scatter them before us! Their homes become our dens, their lands are now our farms! And they shall burn, as we once did, in a place that is hollow and forlorn. ”

— Collected on Ishashan 1172, 18 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a lighteyed spinster of the eighth dahn.[15]

This rattle appears to refer to humans conquering Roshar and exiling the Dawnsingers to Braize.

I disagree with the author here.  Again, I see Death Rattles as a forward-looking mechanism.  This to me represents the Fused describing their plan for the world as they drive humans back.

10. “Ten people, with Shardblades alight, standing before a wall of black and white and red. ”

— Collected on Jesachev 1173, 12 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject an ardent member of the the Silent Gatherers, overheard during his last moments.[16]

This to me represents the defense of Thaylenah.  The ten would be Dalinar, Kaladin, Szeth, Lift, Teft, Jasnah, Shallan, Renarin, Ash, and Taln.  You could easily also argue Venli to replace either Ash or Taln.  

13. “He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear! ”

— Collected on Vevahach 1173, 8 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a prostitute of unknown background.[19]

I think this refers to Dalinar.  The title is Bondsmith.  The tower is Urithiru, the crown is Dalinar's position as overking.  The spear I do not have an explanation for as yet.

15. “A woman sits and scratches out her own eyes. Daughter of kings and winds, the vandal. ”

— Collected on Palahevan 1173, 73 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a beggar of some renown, known for his elegant songs.[21]

This rattle is believed to refer to the Herald Shalash, the daughter of the Herald Jezrien, Herald of Kings and patron of the Order of Windrunners.[22] Shalash is also Baxil's mistress who destroys art, including depictions of a specific Herald, believed to be those of Shalash herself.

This sample is particularly interesting.  If the Rattles are really forward-looking, this suggests that Shalash has recently started her destruction of artwork.  Given that Ishar has only recently ignited a religious war, and that statues of Shalash still exist (as they would likely not after 4,000 years of focused destruction), what have the Heralds been doing and where have they been between the last Desolation and now?

18. “Re-Shephir, the Midnight Mother, giving birth to abominations with her essence so dark, so terrible, so consuming. She is here! She watches me die! ”

— Collected on Shashabev 1173, 8 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed dock-worker in his forties, father of three.[25]

Foreshadowing of the murders in Urithiru by the Midnight Essence.  This could actually be a description of Sadeas' death, as it is the first to be mimicked.

21. “In the storm I awaken, falling, spinning, grieving. ”

— Collected on Kakanev 1173, 13 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a city guardsman.[28]

This may refer to Szeth during his fight with Kaladin.  He falls, spinning through the storm.  He grieves for his actions.  He is awakened in the storm by Nale when he is revived.

22. “The darkness becomes a palace. Let it rule! Let it rule! ”

— Collected on Kakevah 1173, 22 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed Selay man of unknown profession.[29]

This refers to the corruption of the Queen of Alethkar by Yelig-nar.

29. “All is withdrawn for me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds. ”

— Collected on Tanatanev 1173, 18 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a darkeyed mother of four in her sixty-second year.[37]

Refers to Kaladin saving the king from Moash during the storm.

I am forced to disagree with this interpretation.  While it could be argued that Moash saved Kaladin's life, the description "the one who killed my promises" seems to not fit Elkohar very well.  Kaladin also does not raise his hand until after the Stormfather and Syl have a minor disagreement.  I personally feel that this fits Dalinar much better, as he is the one most likely to be able to make a storm respond by raising his hand.  Also, the "All is withdrawn for me" section seems more inline with an Ascended Dalinar than Kaladin defending Elkohar.

33. “And all the world was shattered! The rocks trembled with their steps, and the stones reached toward the heavens. We die! We die! ”

— Observed circa 1173. Subject was Maps, a member of Bridge Four.[41]

See also 32.  These are likely related.

34. “The day was ours, but they took it. Stormfather! You cannot have it. The day is ours. They come, rasping, and the lights fail. Oh, Stormfather! ”

— Collected circa Tanat 1173 by Taravangian. Subject was a young boy.[5]

May refer to the final battle at the end of Words of Radiance.  If not, likely foreshadows a future battle.

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1) jezrien was killed during the night, not the day

Moash stepped down out of the Kholinar palace into the shadows of a night that had seemed far too long in coming. [..] Moash’s target was a particular man who sat giggling in the darkness near the back of the gardens. A madman with eye color lost to the night. “Have you seen me?” the man asked as Moash knelt. [...] Moash glanced over his shoulder toward the Fused hanging in the night sky behind the palace.

oathbringer chapter 121 "ideals"

9) the fused don't farm, they only fight. i thing more probable the point of view is a 'common' singer.

10) the death rattle we know for sure are rather specific, if ten living blades are named i think we will see ten knight with their blades. and in the battle of  Thaylenah city we don't have even ten radiant, (ash and taln don't had bond any spren, venli is only a proto-radiant) and dalinar is a radiant without blade. the color pattern is off too. the color of saedas/meridas army are forest green, the red can be the thrill and the eyes of the soldier, the black can be yelig-nar but the withe? the lack of the green?

13) i think is the moment after kaladin remember the tien's death at the end of WotK, the tower and the crown represent the dalinar army he need saving, the fallen title, the status of KR he find hard to accept and for the spear...

their song becoming more frantic. His delusions had seemed like hours, but had passed in just a few heartbeats. NO! Lopen’s litter was in front of Kaladin. A spear rested amid the drained water bottles and ragged bandages, steel head reflecting sunlight. It whispered to him. It terrified him, and he loved it. When the time comes, I hope you’re ready. Because this lot will need you. He seized the spear, the first real weapon he had held since his display in the chasm

WotK Chapter 67 "words"

15) in the prologue of WoR the male companion of nale (kalak, i suppose) “I’m worried about Ash.” “You’re worried about everything.” Jasnah hesitated in the hallway. “She’s getting worse,” the voice continued. “We weren’t supposed to get worse. Am I getting worse? I think I feel worse.”, pehraps  ash start to destroy deciption of herself not long ago.

18) a huge strech, yes she had copycat some murder but no one had seen the unmade, or one of her creation. re-shephir was only drive out the tower, no one dealt with her for good, i still think this is a future event.

21) this don't make sense for me. the 'aweken' of szeth is after the storm, after he fall to the ground and nearly die, healed by nale. not during the storm.

22) yelig-nar is a 'person size' spren. the shadow of the palace can be sja-anat or ashertmarn. i think is the last, because 'let it rule' don't mach. sja-anat is an 'she' and yelig-nar is a 'he', but ashertmarn is a mindless force leading to excess.

29) this is one of the most ironclad association, moash save the kaladin's life in WotK (Frantic, Kaladin reached the side of the bridge, but something pulled him back. Hands on his shoulder. He stumbled, spinning to find Moash there. [..] Someone stepped up beside him. Moash’s now-clean-shaven face exposed a faded scar along his chin. He studied Kaladin. “About Dunny …” “You were right to do what you did,” Kaladin said. “You probably saved my life. Thank you.” WotK Chapter 53 Dunny) the chapter kaldin was throw in prison and know the roshone affaire is called 'The One Who Killed Promises' and he strech the hand to size sylblade. and “All is withdrawn for me" can have multiple interpretation, the stormlight he cannot take because betrayed his oath, the friendship with moash, revoked for a petty vengance, the bridge four following dalinar in the expedition ...

33) it is a weak interpretation but could refer to the two storm clash, kaladin and szeth see a whole plateau begin ripped and hauled up in the sky

34) i agree, i posted my interpretation in the main 'death rattle' thread in the SA section  

 

On 31/12/2017 at 2:49 AM, Stormlightning said:

13. I think this refers to Kaladin, even though the tower and crown initially sound like Dalinar. I think Kaladin is eventually going to need to become King of all Radiants like Jezrien.

15. It hurts me to even theorize it, but if these all have to be forward-looking, I fear this could be a reference to Syl. Perhaps voluntarily breaking her connection to Kaladin and becoming a deadeye?

31. Seems to be a reference to the rhythms, which 'no man can hear', but the parshendi can. The black piper would be the one who makes those rhythms. Or it's something sneaky with Wit and his flute.

 

32. - 33. May refer to an eventual betrayal by the entire order of Dustbringers, or maybe Stonewards.

13) the kings of radiant is dalinar, only if he die kaladin can take the role, but i don't think this will happens

15) the death rattle talk of the action of a vandal, don't think an similar act can be ascribet to a 'vandal'

31) in the oathbringer prologue Klade hear "a voice" in the rhythms. i think is the most solid lead to the black piper.

32-33) betrayal from the stonewards? what?

[.S.A.M.K.M]

Apart from imminent death, what are the other situation that allow visions? They might be key about how the visions work and can be applied.

[Lupis]

On 30/12/2017 at 6:56 PM, Brgst13 said:

35. “So the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life... ”

— Observed circa Ishi 1173 by Taravangian. Subject was King Valam of Jah Keved.[4]

Prediction that someone will be allowed to live and therefore Odium will win a victory.  Possibly connected to 17.

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I've hypothesised before, probably on this board somewhere, that this should actually read "So the Knight will reign..." as they are writing down spoken words they wouldn't be sure if it is night or knight. I'm taking it as refering to Dalinar taking up some of Honor's powers. And yes I know it isn't in English and the two might not sound the same in their language, but I am assuming they do until proven otherwise.

[Stormlightning]

17 hours ago, IntentAwesome said:

Quote

9. “Victory! We stand atop the mount! We scatter them before us! Their homes become our dens, their lands are now our farms! And they shall burn, as we once did, in a place that is hollow and forlorn. ”

— Collected on Ishashan 1172, 18 seconds pre-death, by the Silent Gatherers. Subject was a lighteyed spinster of the eighth dahn.[15]

This rattle appears to refer to humans conquering Roshar and exiling the Dawnsingers to Braize.

I disagree with the author here.  Again, I see Death Rattles as a forward-looking mechanism.  This to me represents the Fused describing their plan for the world as they drive humans back

I agree that this doesn't refer to the humans conquering from Roshar. For one, humans don't typically refer to their homes as dens. But do the Singers? Actually, I think the characters most likely to refer to their homes as dens are the Sleepless. And we know they did something they want to be redeemed from, from the cover of WoK. 

Duuuuude...this is legit. Sleepless also works really well for the 'they shall burn' (Aimia was scoured). It is now hollow and forlorn.