Szeth's Unique Aquisition (SPOILERS!!!!!!)

[Seerow]

 So, of course, Nightblood would be able to feed of Light. The question is, how efficient will it be? We really need some SI units for measuring magic, discussions are starting to get bottlenecked by their lack...

 

Getting a little ahead of ourselves aren't we? We don't even have a quantified way to measure Stormlight yet, think we need that before we can start getting a Cosmere standard.

[Shadow Guardian]

Zahel says that the Purelake reminds him of his home.  Does he mean the mild climate?  If he meant the constant shallow water than I think we can rule out his being from Nalthis.

 

The colors thing though... I don't remember the Nalthians speaking like that in Warbreaker.  Though they are obviously obsessed with color.  Hmmm.

 

Given Zahel's constant complaints about language, I'm guessing that it is in part because of however the languages translate. We see it all in English, but that doesn't mean the languages correspond to one another.

[Zmann966]

I literally leapt out of bed shouting "No!! NOOO!!! YESSS!!!" When I read the end of that scene. Makes me very glad I re-read Warbreaker not too long ago.

As for Nightblood vs. a Shardblade... I remember asking Brandon at SDCC years ago something like this... Right after I finished my ARC or WoK: "So... Nightblood and a Shardblade have some pretty similar qualities. Both cut clean swaths through material, burn out people souls. Any comment?"
Got RAFO'd at the time, but it simply makes sense when you think about it.

 

A Shardblade is the physical manifestation of a spren into a weapon. It is, literally, a "soul" manifest. And, keep this in mind: spren are created by humanity's cognitive perception.
Humanity's emotions, ideas, thoughts; we perceive the world and create spren in the image of our perception. We personify and they exist.

Spren, in turn follow and bind oaths and, in turn can become weapons for their sworn Radiants.

 

Now, our favorite sentient sword of the cosmere (close to catching up Syl, but you're still #2) Nightblood.

He was created by shoving a vast amount of breath into a weapon. Thousands of humans' souls were extracted and invested into this blade. And we already know that Awakening personifies the invested object, it gains "life" and, in turn acts like we, humankind, perceives life. Awakened object imitate life, partially due to our soul's investiture powering it, partially due to our cognitive perception of anything that lives.
When creating an Awakened object, you bind it to orders in your own native tongue. You, essentially, give it an oath. And it obeys.

Please tell me you've drawn the same connections by now?

 

Without trying to be too inflammatory: Nightblood is a Shardblade, albeit created a little differently. When put into perspective, created backwards.
Spren are created in humanity's thoughts, then manifests spiritually and physically. A bonded spren will hold its Radiant to their oaths, and give him a weapon and the power over Stormlight (investiture).
Nightblood was created physically then forced with humanity's sprirt (breath) and thought. Nightblood demands it's wielder obey the oath to destroy and takes the power of investiture.
It stands to reason that he will function a bit differently than a Shardblade:

Dark smoke instead of glowing mist. Never progresses out of the innocent "dumb" phase of intelligence, and perpetually in that "bad memory" loop. Self-vowed (to destroy evil) with no perception of evil, rather than oath-bound to a human soul and exacting those oaths with back-and-forth of such things, such perceived things, like evil, truth, etc.

The final kicker I can say is:
A Sharblade cuts through the soul of a thing. It slices stone cleanly and severs the soul of living things.
Nightblood destroys the entire thing. It evaporates entire objects in a puff and rips through living flesh.

Even lifeless, who are non-living things with a bound-soul disappear entirely, rather than be cut (I know the gray-flesh connection of lifeless and shard-severed flesh has already been ironed out right?) In my opinion, most Shardblades will completely evaporate when confronted with Nightblood. And I imagine the still "alive" ones carried by the Radiants will see it for what it truly is: a bastardization of their own kind.

[marianmi]

So ... Nightblood to get rid of the "evil" shardblades?

[Zmann966]

Wow, wall of text. Apologies.

Last thing I wanna say is there HAS to be some kind of mythology connection between Nalthis and Roshar. Some legend or something...
I know it's been postulated: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4841-kaladin-and-kalad-the-usurper-warbreaker/

But you don't name a character KALADIN if, somehow, his parents haven't heard of KALAD's legend. Especially if you're going to bring Kalad himself in to train Kaladin as a swordmaster,
I'll accept they're not the same, as speculated, but if Vasher's been in the employ of the Kholin's for a dozen years, and AROUND the cosmere for at least 300 (not even COUNTING the pre-Warbreaker 300 he lived) there's gotta be some mix of mythos.

I'll even accept that a worldhopper jumped to Roshar and told a story about Kalad the Usurper and the Manywar in a tavern somewhere and the name got around the Alethi.

[Cayden]

The real question to be is that what happens when an Honorblade and Nightblood fight. Personally I am inclined to believe that it would be a close fight and more determined by the skill of the wielder than anything.

 

Thats why I am hoping that Zahel gets an Honorblade to defeat Szeth

[Swimmingly]

Getting a little ahead of ourselves aren't we? We don't even have a quantified way to measure Stormlight yet, think we need that before we can start getting a Cosmere standard.

Sizgil weeps at the lack of quantisation. However, with the dawn of fabrial science and the reawakening of Surgebinders, Stormlight's gonna get quantized quickly. Trade may even shift from using spheres denomination to using the amount of stored Stormlight.

[Guest Shash]

Hmmm...there are probably countless readers out there who are unaware of this site who really think the blade Szeth got was just another Shardblade...

 

I love being in the know.

[Gamma Fiend]

My head exploded when I read that page.

I do believe a long while back in my Cosmere Battle Royale Thread, Mikanium postulated this;

If I really wanted to be be cruel, I think I would embed Szeth's oathstone into Nightbloods hilt, and have it tell Szeth what to do.  

 

Now that would give me nightmares.  I think it would make a fun short story to write.

And while Szeth doesn't have an Oathstone to follow.... I think him and NB will get alone just fine.

[+Aletus]

What would give me nightmares - is Nightblood holding odium. 

[Guest Shash]

What would give me nightmares - is Nightblood holding odium. 

 

Could Nightblood hold a Shard?  Is all you need Sentience, or do you need to be a human?

[pottsman85]

I haven't logged into this site in years...but I had to show up after reading that one Szeth scene as I was powering through the last half of the book last night.  Holy crap is Szeth going to be a killing machine.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

I haven't logged into this site in years...but I had to show up after reading that one Szeth scene as I was powering through the last half of the book last night.  Holy crap is Szeth going to be a killing machine.

 

Probably not any more of a killing machine than he already was!

[Aminar]

Probably not any more of a killing machine than he already was!

Except that he can probably bypass Stormlight Healing... Hard to heal being turned to smoke...

[Link Von Kelsier Harvey]

Every time I think about this again, I get a big stupid grin and start squeeing all over again.

[Dahak]

The real question to be is that what happens when an Honorblade and Nightblood fight. Personally I am inclined to believe that it would be a close fight and more determined by the skill of the wielder than anything.

 

Thats why I am hoping that Zahel gets an Honorblade to defeat Szeth

 

Conveniently Szeth dropped one.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

Except that he can probably bypass Stormlight Healing... Hard to heal being turned to smoke...

 

Hard to heal the soul of your arm being severed too, but Kaladin managed it twice! I'm hopeful that enough investiture will keep them safe. 

 

I purchased the "Firstborn/Elysium" hardback from Brandon's store and asked a question about an Awakener with a ton of breath's being hit by a shardblade: 

 

 

Q: what would result from a shard blade attacking and awakener? Do extra breaths stop auto death?

A: a shard blade would work very well against an Awakener. breaths would be like holding Stormlight, won't save you.

 

 

 

Here is a thought I've been tossing around in my head for a bit... I have always assumed that a Shardblade is cutting/severing someone's soul, because that is what is thought in-world. 

 

What if...

 

Since shardblades are really Spren, which are really Cognitive creatures, shardblades are instead severing the cognitive connection between your physical self or portions? 

Edited March 8, 2014 by Green Hoodie Mistborn

[Gaz]

Every time I think about this again, I get a big stupid grin and start squeeing all over again.

Yeah, I've got the same feeling.

[Youngy]

Here is a thought I've been tossing around in my head for a bit... I have always assumed that a Shardblade is cutting/severing someone's soul, because that is what is thought in-world. 

 

What if...

 

Since shardblades are really Spren, which are really Cognitive creatures, shardblades are instead severing the cognitive connection between your physical self or portions? 

This is actually intriguing.

The fact that Szeth could be resurrected could imply that he wasn't actually dead - it was simply his cognitive aspect which had been destroyed - which Stormlight seems to be able to repair. He hadn't quite died, the body was still living, just not receiving any commands.

More to this.

When a blade cuts off a limb, the limb turns numb, not dead - just a lack of cognition and control of the limb.

When the blade cuts the spine, the persons eyes are burnt out and they die. Now, this is a bit touch and go... But to me, the eyes are the part of the body that most represents the cognitive ability of a person, the ability to see.

 

So I would be implying you are right. Shardblades cut cognitive because they are cognitive.

Stormlight healing however, can heal the cognitive part of a body because it seems to restore humans to the spiritual standard - encompassing both the cognitive and physical parts of the person.

 

[PorridgeBrick]

INTERVIEW: Apr 15th, 2013

Reddit AMA 2013 (Verbatim)

KURKISTAN ()

Does a limb that has been "severed" by a Shardblade have any Hemalurgic bindpoints? If the same limb was then cut off more conventionally, would a Bloodmaker ferring be able to grow it back?

BRANDON SANDERSON

A severed Shardblade limb needs repair to the soul before it would function again. A Bloodmaker would be able to heal it without needing to grow it back.

Shardblades are spiritual, not cognitive.

[IllNsickly]

This thread it telling me in a very stern voice that the pieces of the cosmere falling on Roshar are rather large indeed.

Evidently, i really need to read Warbreaker

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

Shardblades are spiritual, not cognitive.

 

I wonder though if Brandon was just being loose with his words a bit there.

 

Bloodmakers are using investiture to heal in the same way that Kaladin used Stormlight to heal his Shardblade wound. Essentially they are restoring the body to how the self "sees it". Here is a reddit WoB dealing with healing/souls/righting the self. 

 

"Seeing of the self" is all about the Cognitive aspect of a person from what I know. So to me that still says that they make a cognitive change to the person, not spiritual. 

 

Maybe we need to get Brandon to nail down a definition of a "soul" in the cosmere in relation to Realmatic theory... that would help answer some of these questions. 

 

That also raises some questions for me regarding Renarin and the healing of his eyes. If he needed the glasses as part of himself, then Stormlight should not have healed him to the point that he didn't need them anymore. Maybe that was his Surge of Growth/Regrowth at work rather than just stormlight healing? 

[happyman]

That also raises some questions for me regarding Renarin and the healing of his eyes. If he needed the glasses as part of himself, then Stormlight should not have healed him to the point that he didn't need them anymore. Maybe that was his Surge of Growth/Regrowth at work rather than just stormlight healing? 

 

I've felt that Renarin regrowing his eyes without the need for glasses and Lopen regrowing his arm mean that, at some level, neither of them had really accepted those changes as part of themselves.

 

It also makes Kaladin keeping his brands but not his tattoo even more meaningful.

[Aminar]

It's possible Shardblades cut the cognitive, it would explain the interactions with the nervous system(cut the spine to kill.) But we also know they do what they do because they are heavily invested, something that is spiritual in nature.

Szeth was most definitley dead. Just not dead long enough for his soul to move on. That one guy from Mistborn's soul hasn't moved on yet and that was centuries ago... Too bad his body got eatwn I suppose.

Happyman, do they mention if Bridge 4 starts losing their Tatoos or Slavebrands while holding Stormlight. I don't remember...

Edited March 8, 2014 by Aminar

[happyman]

It's possible Shardblades cut the cognitive, it would explain the interactions with the nervous system(cut the spine to kill.) But we also know they do what they do because they are heavily invested, something that is spiritual in nature.

Szeth was most definitley dead. Just not dead long enough for his soul to move on. That one guy from Mistborn's soul hasn't moved on yet and that was centuries ago... Too bad his body got eatwn I suppose.

Happyman, do they mention if Bridge 4 starts losing their Tatoos or Slavebrands while holding Stormlight. I don't remember...

 

I don't think there is any mention of what happens when Bridge 4 starts holding Stormlight beyond The Lopen growing his arm back.  On the other hand, I don't think that they would lose their tattoos.  They understand and embrace them in ways that Kaladin doesn't.