theory Voidlight is not Odium's Investiture!

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

5 hours ago, Darvys said:

In the examples you listed the Thrill seems odd in this context, isn't it confirmed that the Unmade are splinters of Odium ? Why would their influence on a human or listener be a hack ?  In those cases you have a blank canvas in which you inject one Shard's investiture, what is there to co-opt ?

Sadeas troops are influenced by Thrill after they have been bonded to spren, here are the relevant passages from OB:

In Chaper 112, For the Living (when Kal and Co get to the Oathgate in Shadesmar):

Quote

Beneath them, the device itself manifested as a large stone platform with a wide, sweeping white bridge running over the beads and to the shore.

That bridge was guarded by an entire army of enemy spren, hundreds—perhaps thousands—strong.

Then later in Chapter 115, the Wrong Passion, after the Thrill has transitioned from Shadesmar to PR:

Quote

"I've prepared these men for decades," Odium said. "Men who want nothing so much as something to break, to gain vengeance against the one who killed their highprince. Let the singers watch and learn. I've prepared a different army to fight for us today."

Ahead of them on the battlefield, the human ranks slumped, their banner wavering. A man in glittering Shardplate, sitting upon a white horse, led them.

Deep within his helm, something started glowing red.

The dark spren flew toward the men, finding welcoming bodies and willing flesh. The red mist made them lust, made their minds open. And the spren, then, bonded to the men, slipping into those open souls.

"Master, you have learned to inhabit humans?" Turash said to Subservience.

"Spren have always been able to bond them, Turash," Odium said. "It merely requires the right mindset and the right environment."

Ten thousand Alethi in green uniforms gripped their weapons, their eyes glowing a deep, dangerous red.

"Go," Odium whispered. "Kholin would have sacrificed you! Manifest your anger! Kill the Blackthorn, who murdered your highprince. Set your Passion free! Give me your pain, and seize this city in my name!"

I mentioned it in the OP that I think the real nature of Odium's power is the ability to control vessels (humans or listeners) with access to investiture, and that voidbinding is really the process of controlling Investiture by proxy. I think the voidbinding chart in the endpapers of TWoK is solely representative of how Odium uses voidbinding to control the Singers. The quote above shows how the process work, Odium creates the proper mindset in the vessel to be voidbound by having the vessel give them their passion, creating an open space in their soul where he can insert his controlling hatred. That's one reason I think Odium is one of the most dangerous of all shards, because his power is the power to corrupt / hijack the investiture of other shards, and he does this by manipulating people's emotions and providing them an external rationalization for their evil actions.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2017 by hoiditthroughthegrapevine

[RShara]

12 minutes ago, Jhardin said:

No need for sarcasm. Its just a suggestion that I feel like both points are headed in the right direction based on what we know. kthx.

That wasn't sarcasm.  That was a brilliant idea!  I mean, we have no proof, but I can get behind it.  Actually, I didn't even realize you were proposing that idea.  It came to me when reading your post, but I didn't realize you were actually advocating it.

[Furry-And-Lovable-Grover]

1 minute ago, RShara said:

That wasn't sarcasm.  That was a brilliant idea!  I mean, we have no proof, but I can get behind it.  Actually, I didn't even realize you were proposing that idea.  It came to me when reading your post, but I didn't realize you were actually advocating it.

Oh I definitely don't think that Nohadon is the sibling, but that forum puts forth the idea that Nohadon may have bonded either the Sibling or one of the other Superspren and later have become a Cognitive Shadow. Something in all of that feels like it's on the right track. 

[RShara]

16 minutes ago, Jhardin said:

Oh I definitely don't think that Nohadon is the sibling, but that forum puts forth the idea that Nohadon may have bonded either the Sibling or one of the other Superspren and later have become a Cognitive Shadow. Something in all of that feels like it's on the right track. 

Oh..  But I like Nohadon now being the Sibling to be a much more fun theory

[Fourth Of The Night]

4 minutes ago, RShara said:

Oh..  But I like Nohadon now being the Sibling to be a much more fun theory

Hey, we do have a canon example of a Cognitive Shadow merging with a Spren! I'm totally down for this.

[MonsterMetroid]

 

 

 

Everyone is right that the link to honor and the color blue is tenuous at best.

But we know Syl is fathered by the Stormfather and syl is blue-white. Now how boring would it be to just have one of your moons be white? But also most importantly as we see from this quote

Quote

“Nomon—the middle moon—had begun to rise, bathing the city in pale blue light. Staying up this late had been a rare privilege for her in her father’s house…”

Sounds kind of like blue-white doesn't it?

Plus its way more fun to assume that the moons are associated with shards or investiture sources

If we do go off these assumptions though who would be associated with Violet?

Remember from the first WoB that OP shared that all existing investiture was assigned to a shard upon the shattering so the shard never actually had to be there to set it up if Adolnasium did it himself.

The first thing that comes to my mind is... Ambition. I have always imagined that the shades are a purple hue, and if they and someone knows what color they actually are that would be cool to share. But there are other reasons I like this idea. First is this:

There is a whole lot of ambition in SA in people motivations like for instance venli's description on the cover:

Quote

The Traitor, broken by ambition, seeks freedom.

And if you think of it plenty of other characters with ambition to change culture, tradition, or kill a high king and so on.

But we also have the unmade and what they seek/represent

Quote

Ashertmarn, the Heart of the Revel, is the final of the three great Mindless Unmade. His gift to men is not prophecy or battle focus, but a lust for indulgence.

Let me no longer hurt! Let me no longer weep! Dai-gonarthis! The Black Fisher holds my sorrow and consumes it! 

Nergaoul was known for driving forces into a battle rage, lending them great ferocity. Curiously, he did this to both sides of a conflict, Voidbringer and human. This seems common of the less self-aware spren. 

Re-Shephir, the Midnight Mother, giving birth to abominations with her essence so dark, so terrible, so consuming. She is here! She watches me die! She is a creature of instinct that is drawn to violence and pain. -coppermind wiki

 

Of the Unmade, Sja-anat was most feared by the Radiants. They spoke extensively of her ability to corrupt spren, though only "lesser" spren - whatever that means. These corrupted spren often act as her servants and messengers. -coppermind wiki

 

I would argure that each of the unmade represent a common goal of ambition... that was twisted by hatred

Ashertman- lust and gluttony

Dai-gonarthis- suffering of others

Nergaoul- killing, physical superiority

Reshepsir- Envy twisted into violence and pain

Sja-anat- leadership twisted into a form of slavery or mastery

and Yelig-nar- pure unadulterated Power

So I think the unmade are a splinter/natural occurance of Ambition that Odium also added his splinters to. Thus why Sja-anat would say:

Quote

We were made, then Unmade

It would also make sense why Odium would kill ambition first then come to a Storming planet with two shards!!! he knew he could coopt and hack a portion of the magic system that was no longer being actively directed by a vessel.

But thats just a Theory, A cosmere Theory! Thanks for Reading.

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

@MonsterMetroid I love where your post is going!

4 hours ago, MonsterMetroid said:

Everyone is right that the link to honor and the color blue is tenuous at best.

But we know Syl is fathered by the Stormfather and syl is blue-white. Now how boring would it be to just have one of your moons be white? But also most importantly as we see from this quote

Quote

“Nomon—the middle moon—had begun to rise, bathing the city in pale blue light. Staying up this late had been a rare privilege for her in her father’s house…”

Sounds kind of like blue-white doesn't it?

This is my last attempt to sway the unbelievers that the white of stormlight might in fact be pale blue light. The most often metaphor used for describing visible manifestations of stormlight is smoke, so here are a couple of pictures showing what I know from the first hand experience of being a smoker, smoke has slight blueish tinge to it. The two pictures below show this coloration in two different lighting conditions with two different backgrounds. You can find pictures of smoke that look more whiteish, but believe me, I have observed enough smoke in my lifetime to know that it is in fact blue-ish tinged, and the fact that smoke sometimes appears white is a subtle confirmation of it possibly being mistakenly referred to as white:

4 hours ago, MonsterMetroid said:

If we do go off these assumptions though who would be associated with Violet?

Remember from the first WoB that OP shared that all existing investiture was assigned to a shard upon the shattering so the shard never actually had to be there to set it up if Adolnasium did it himself.

The first thing that comes to my mind is... Ambition. I have always imagined that the shades are a purple hue, and if they and someone knows what color they actually are that would be cool to share.

I don't recall what color the shades are, I just remember that their eyes change to red when they are enraged, having them be violet would be visually amazing! I personally like this idea a lot, I have to think about it more to be sure, but very interesting to speculate about. Just got my upvotes back, enjoy one! I still am partial to stormlight being ostensibly white with a faint blue nimbus at the margins of the light.

Edited December 29, 2017 by hoiditthroughthegrapevine

[RShara]

16 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

@MonsterMetroid I love where your post is going!

This is my last attempt to sway the unbelievers that the white of stormlight might in fact be pale blue light.

Nope. 

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

36 minutes ago, RShara said:

Nope. 

Darn it, I know I should have used a picture of a celebrity smoking instead...

How about now @RShara, see the smoke is still blueish white.

[RShara]

3 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Darn it, I know I should have used a picture of a celebrity smoking instead...

How about now @RShara, see the smoke is still blueish white.

Nope.

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

2 minutes ago, RShara said:

Nope.

Okay, time to pull out the big guns:

How 'bout now?

[RShara]

It's not going to happen

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

8 minutes ago, RShara said:

It's not going to happen

Concedes defeat:

[RShara]

 

[StrikerEZ]

I think it would be interesting if Voidbinding was Odium's special power to take over other Investiture systems, but I don't really think it is. We know from Brandon (and a little bit of postulating) that magic systems form through combinations of planets' qualities and Shards' qualities. If Ruin and Preservation had Invested in a different planet, their magic systems would've been very different. They can influence how the magic develops, but it all kind of depends on the planet as well. So, while Odium's number is 9, it doesn't surprise me that his Rosharan magic system has Roshar'a number. 

[Wit Beyond Measure]

4 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Sadeas troops are influenced by Thrill after they have been bonded to spren, here are the relevant passages from OB:

In Chaper 112, For the Living (when Kal and Co get to the Oathgate in Shadesmar):

Then later in Chapter 115, the Wrong Passion, after the Thrill has transitioned from Shadesmar to PR:

I mentioned it in the OP that I think the real nature of Odium's power is the ability to control vessels (humans or listeners) with access to investiture, and that voidbinding is really the process of controlling Investiture by proxy. I think the voidbinding chart in the endpapers of TWoK is solely representative of how Odium uses voidbinding to control the Singers. The quote above shows how the process work, Odium creates the proper mindset in the vessel to be voidbound by having the vessel give them their passion, creating an open space in their soul where he can insert his controlling hatred. That's one reason I think Odium is one of the most dangerous of all shards, because his power is the power to corrupt / hijack the investiture of other shards, and he does this by manipulating people's emotions and providing them an external rationalization for their evil actions.

Ooo, yes!  Odium, the bringer of the emotional void! 

You know, I think Odium might be stripping both Parshendi and humans of their Identity in order to be able to plant his corrupted spren inside them.  In fact, the corrupted spren seem to already be fused (yes, as in Fused) with the Identity of the ancient, crazy Parshendi, which is why Odium must first create the void before he can impregnate them with his Voidspren.  (I don't fully understand Identity yet, so a better term might be souls or spirits.)

Quote

She suddenly felt something odd. Like a rhythm, but oppressive, demanding. It shook the very air, and the ground beneath her feet trembled. Lightning in the clouds behind seemed to flash to this rhythm, and in a moment she saw that the area around her was filled with ghostly spren.

Those are the spirits of the dead, she realized. Fused who haven’t yet chosen a body. Most were twisted to the point that she barely recognized them as singers. Two were roughly the size of buildings.

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (pp. 1087-1088). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

So the spirits of dead singers and these ghostly (corrupted?) spren have been fused together to form these Thaylen City Fused, almost all of whom bond with Amaram's army.

Quote

What we’ve been calling ‘Voidbringers’ are instead a combination of a parshman with some kind of hostile spren or spirit.”

“The Fused,” Dalinar said.

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (pp. 412-413). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

Again, we see that the Fused (capital) are a fusing of hostile (corrupted?) spren and spirit.  Hence the name, obviously.

But in order for the Fused, containing both spren and spirit, to bond with a person or Parshendi, that person's spirit (Identity?) needs to first be removed to make room for the new spirit.  We see this when the Fused spren tries bonding with Venli and she resists:

Quote

A pressure enveloped her, pushing at her mind, her soul. Let Me In.

With difficulty, she opened herself up to this force. This was just like adopting a new form, right?

Pain seared her insides, as if someone had set fire to her veins. She screamed, and sand bit her tongue. Tiny coals ripped at her clothing, singeing her skin.

And then, a voice.

WHAT IS THIS?

It was a warm voice. An ancient, paternal voice, kindly and enveloping.

“Please,” Venli said, gasping in breaths of smoky air. “Please.”

YES, the voice said. CHOOSE ANOTHER. THIS ONE IS MINE.

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 574). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

So, Venli's voice is in quotes.  The Fused spren quotes are italicized.  Whose voice is the CAPS-LOCK one, the warm, paternal, kind voice?  Is that Venli's Identity?  Or her soul?

Here is where Venli confronts the Fused Formerly Known as Demli:

Quote

“Bring Demid back. He needs to know the consequences before he can choose such a drastic—”

“Back?” Ulim said. “Back? He’s dead. As you should be. This is bad. What did you do? Resist, like that sister of yours?”

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 577). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

Demli is "dead" because his Identity or spirit has been removed in order to make room for the new spirit, right?

And so Odium being the emotional Voidbringer is perfect for removing Identity (or spirits?) to make room for the Fuzed (fusing both spren and spirit).  Humans have to be seriously coerced into giving up their spirits, though, which is why he brought The Thrill along.

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

As per usual, awesome quotes @Wit Beyond Measure.

15 minutes ago, Wit Beyond Measure said:

You know, I think Odium might be stripping both Parshendi and humans of their Identity in order to be able to plant his corrupted spren inside them.  In fact, the corrupted spren seem to already be fused (yes, as in Fused) with the Identity of the ancient, crazy Parshendi, which is why Odium must first create the void before he can impregnate them with his Voidspren.  (I don't fully understand Identity yet, so a better term might be souls or spirits.)

In in Chapter 17, Trapped in Shadows, we hear from Kaladin's talk with Sah, his recently awakened Parshman captor that:

Quote

"They may have taken your freedom, but they took our minds"

Syl, in the same chapter, explains the functional cause of this by explaining how this process was reversed:

Quote

"The Everstorm," Syl said. "Power has filled the holes in their souls, bridging the gaps. They didn't just wake Kaladin. They've been healed, Connection refounded, Identity restored. There's more to this than we ever realized. Somehow when you conquered them, you stole their ability to change forms. You literally ripped off a piece of their souls and locked it away."

This explains a lot about what parshmen were before the Advent of the Everstorm, they are functionally an animate corpse capable of perceiving and responding to stimulus in their environment but unable to think, and unable to feel any sort of connection, to the place they live or those around them. There has been some speculation (which I think has merit) that the event that caused this transformation in the Parshmen was teh real reason for the Recreance. To knowingly rob an entire people of their ability to think and act with any sort of volition seems about as wrong as anything possibly could be.

But this also gives a clue as to how Singers change forms, we know that Singers can view spren and that this most likely indicates a greater awareness of and presence in the Cognitive Realm. So when they bond with a spren in their gemheart, they use the free kinetic investiture available during a high storm (and possibly an Everstorm) to merge their cognitive aspect (their mind, which is possibly the CR component of Identity) with that of the bonded spren. This creates a fusion, which due to the Singers greater presence in the cognitive realm, allows for the Cognitive change to manifest as a physically altered form. This is at least how I understand the process.

I think the Fused are a different case that uses a mechanism that is similar. We know that Singers have to allow the ancient ghostly spren into their gemhearts for the transformation to occur, but when the Fused fuse with their Host, the Identity and Connection of the Singer host is destroyed and supplanted by that of the Fused. This probably is due to the fact that even though the Fused are Cognitive Shadows, they have their own seperate and unique Identities and Network of Connections. So the mental and spiritual components of the Fused completely supplant the Identity and Spiritual Connection of the host Singer. This is how I understand the process at least.

So, the restoration of Identity and Connection to the parshmen was vital for the Fused to be able to join the battle. There is a lot of speculation that the thing that destroyed this connection to the Parshmen was something that Melishi the bondsmith did.

Quote

So Melishi retired to his tent, and resolved to destroy the Voidbringers upon the next day, but that night did present a different stratagem, related to the unique abilities of the Bondsmiths; and being hurried, he could make no specific account of his process; it was related to the very nature of the Heralds and their divine duties, an attribute the Bondsmiths alone could address.

A lot of the speculation is that it has to do with capturing Ba-Ado-Mishram, which I could easily see being the case. If BAM was supplying violet investiture to the vast amry of Singers, either the Fused or those who were bonded to spren which granted forms of Power, then application of the proper surge directed to propogate out to all who were Connected to BAM, might have been able to sever their Connection and Identity. This is pure speculation, but it seems like it's going along the right lines to me at least. The other interesting thing about this is that this removal of Connection and Identity did propagate to the parshmen's children (as evidenced by Sah's daughter, because we know that she was born to Sah in the same Identity-less and Connection-less state that Sah was in while he was still a parshman). So I think that this a case of the Parshman having their minds (Identity) and souls (Connection) completely removed. Their whole people were relegated to the insensate life of Chulldom in one fell swoop, that's even worse than genocide. In WoR Eshonai and Venli's mother mention the Last Legion, a group that intentionally turned away from the old gods. I think they accomplished this by becoming dull form Listeners, and without a bonded spren, they weren't subjected to the same Mental and Spiritual lobotomy that the rest of the Singers experienced.

As for Venli's transformation sequence, I think this is most probably the voice of Envoy form spren that bonds her. My first time reading through OB I thought it was Timbre, but the bit "It was a warm voice. An ancient, paternal voice, kindly and enveloping." makes it seem more like it's older spren, with a higher level of sapience than Timbre seems to show.

51 minutes ago, Wit Beyond Measure said:

And so Odium being the emotional Voidbringer is perfect for removing Identity (or spirits?) to make room for the Fuzed (fusing both spren and spirit).  Humans have to be seriously coerced into giving up their spirits, though, which is why he brought The Thrill along.

So in answer to this, I think that what is happening here is that Odium is using pain as a lever with anger as the fulcrum to open the spiritual web of the target so that he can insert something controlling and damaging into the spiritual web of the vessel. This is pure speculation, but it seems to fit. I think also that we have yet to see the Odium invested manifestation of Voidbinding, all we have seen so far is the investiture corrupting manifestation of Odium's powers, which like @Calderis mentioned are just a means of hacking surgebinding, and this really isn't what true voidbinding is.

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

1 hour ago, StrikerEZ said:

I think it would be interesting if Voidbinding was Odium's special power to take over other Investiture systems, but I don't really think it is. We know from Brandon (and a little bit of postulating) that magic systems form through combinations of planets' qualities and Shards' qualities. If Ruin and Preservation had Invested in a different planet, their magic systems would've been very different. They can influence how the magic develops, but it all kind of depends on the planet as well. So, while Odium's number is 9, it doesn't surprise me that his Rosharan magic system has Roshar'a number. 

I don't think that it's all there is to voidbinding, in fact I think it's a special case of his Investiture and intent being uniquely suited to accomplish this Investiture hack. I don't think we are going to see real Voidbinding based solely off of Odium's investiture until the army comes from the Island at the Origin "with light in their pockets" (from the Puuli interlude).

[Mutantspicy]

22 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

 

 

I have labeled points of interest on this chart from 1 to 6, and refer to them by number below in this discussion.

The first things of interest are the surges associated with the god's eye orders of Voidbinders. Note how the surges of tension (1) and Illumination (4) are encapsulated in blue with spikes of energy that radiate inwards and that these are further encapsulated by violet spikes radiating outwards towards the left hand surges. Note how this is then mildly inverted for the surges of Adhesion (3) and Progression (6), where the surges are encapsulated in violet which radiates inwardly and this is encapsulated by green spikes of energy that radiate outwards towards the right hand surges.

 

Thanks for this! While I'm not sure it proves your thesis. Voidlight is not of Odium    You are certainly on to something with this chart.  A couple of points to consider maybe 1)High Storms and Everstorms travel in opposite directions which may indicate something.  Perhaps why the symbols are often mirrored and maybe even the energy flow is backwards.  Instead propagating from connection with the spren to the surges to the radiants.  It goes from the fused to the surges, with gems being the tie that binds(trap for spren).  2) the non-symmetry of the colors which you describe I agree seems important.  I like the way you describe it, but I feel like there is something missing.  I find it interesting the layout of where the violet and green lightning bolt head to.  WR's And ED's have green bolts, and LW's and SW's have violet bolts the interesting part here is WR's and ED's seem to have a stonger yellow bond between them, as do LW's and SW's.  I don't know why it feels important but it does. Like maybe WR, ED, LW, & SW are top targets to work his corruption scheme.  3) After OB I don't know who truly represents Voidlight and who represents stormlight anymore, But I will say if your theory is correct I think you may have it backwards.  illumination should be a violet surge, and progression should be a blue surge perhaps.  On the other hand maybe the initial surges Blue and Violet represent Cultivation and Honors investiture of Roshar. And the yellow lines simply represent How Odium hacked them. 

Either way, you'v'e given me a lot to consider.  Thanks again.

[Mutantspicy]

So taking it further.  Using your pattern consider.   Yellow bolts equal the cognitive realm (odiums only path to corrupt spren)

Green bolts equal physical realm where cultivation is most invested,  Violet bolts represent the spiritual realm where the storm father is most invested.  The dark purple lines represent the energy flow of surges to the various invested objects.  Just offer another way to consider the puzzle. 

[StrikerEZ]

Honestly, I think you guys are reading too much into the Voidbinding chart. Brandon has said that he let Isaac (I think, it might've been a different artist) have a little bit of free reign with the chart. I doubt that the lightning bolts represent everything you guys are trying to say they do, and I've seen no real evidence from the books for your claims. And Brandon has said not every Shard has a number, color, or any of those other things, and I just don't buy that the color of the moons, which aren't even apart of Roshar, have such a great effect on Roshar (besides tides, rotation, etc.)

@hoiditthroughthegrapevine I just don't think Shards can use their magic systems directly. Magic systems result as an interaction between a planet and a Shard's Investiture, and, unless a Shard Invests with the intent to make a magic system, usually happen as a side effect of other things. 

I also don't like the idea that the Fused are converting their gemhearts into voidlight (also don't like the term violet light, because it just adds an unnecessary complexity to something that's already pretty complex) because the Singer gemhearts are described as very small, so they would very quickly get used up and then the Fused would die randomly, which we haven't seen happen. Also, one of the epigraphs said that BAM was fueling them with voidlight directly, so I take that as confirmation that Voidlight is indeed the right term and that the Fused can't be converting gemhearts because what would be the point of their connection to BAM then?

[Wit Beyond Measure]

Love, love, love!  Thank you, @hoiditthroughthegrapevine.  I appreciate the entire post, especially the parts explaining more about Identity and Connection.

15 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

In WoR Eshonai and Venli's mother mention the Last Legion, a group that intentionally turned away from the old gods. I think they accomplished this by becoming dull form Listeners, and without a bonded spren, they weren't subjected to the same Mental and Spiritual lobotomy that the rest of the Singers experienced.

Awesome!  I also believe dullform is achieved through not bonding with spren, but I believe that this makes Parshendi almost as dull as parshmen because the spren Gemheart bond enhances Identity and Connection.  I'm not sure if that makes sense, but if you go to the WoB and search symbiotic, you'll find many instances of Brandon saying the Gemheart Bond is a symbiotic relationship between spren and host.  I think the benefit to the host is enhanced Identity and Connection.  So dullform Parshendi have Identity and Connection but not much more than parshmen until they bond a spren, or at least that's how I view the differences. 

The spren Gemheart bond also may enhance every host's Connection and Identity, where we see the Santhid intelligently seeing Shallan and emotionally responding to her.  It seems like Shallan was also surprised by the depth of the chasmfiend.  Certainly the Rhyshadium show more intellect and emotion, as well.  And the greatshell seemed quite fond of Rhys to give her a larkin.

Quote

As for Venli's transformation sequence, I think this is most probably the voice of Envoy form spren that bonds her. My first time reading through OB I thought it was Timbre, but the bit "It was a warm voice. An ancient, paternal voice, kindly and enveloping." makes it seem more like it's older spren, with a higher level of sapience than Timbre seems to show.

Yes, the CAPS-LOCK is more reminiscent of powerful beings like the Stormfather.  However, I am also wondering about Eshonai's inner voice (or inner screams, really), the one she suppressed after gaining stormform.

Quote

Eshonai cycled through the new rhythms, careful not to hum them. The others weren’t ready yet.

She sat down, then gasped.

That rhythm! It sounded like . . . like her own voice yelling at her. Screaming in pain. What was that? She shook her head, and found that she had reflexively pulled her hand to her chest in anxiety. When she opened it, the cometlike spren shot out.

Sanderson, Brandon. Words of Radiance (The Stormlight Archive, Book 2) (pp. 711-712). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

I had wondered at one point if that voice wasn't Timbre, but this quote makes it obvious that Timbre is still external and the rhythms are internal.

Quote

I think also that we have yet to see the Odium invested manifestation of Voidbinding, all we have seen so far is the investiture corrupting manifestation of Odium's powers, which like @Calderis mentioned are just a means of hacking surgebinding, and this really isn't what true voidbinding is.

I couldn't find the reference, but weren't we told at one point that the Parshendi could only do one surge each instead of two?  And now we have this Voidbinding chart where all of the Voidbinders have two surges, clearly.  I don't know that we've seen evidence of a Fused Parshendi who has more than one surge, have we?  Perhaps Sja-anat's (recently?) manifested abilities to corrupt Radiant spren have led to these new and more powerful Voidbinders that the chart shows?  I'm not sure - just speculating.

I also am loving @Calderis's insights.  I don't believe Odium is on Roshar quite yet, though, and perhaps I have mistaken your meaning.  Seems like Odium can show up on Roshar only during Everstorms, and I don't think he's fully there even then.  Or at least that is my impression.  Thank you!

[StrikerEZ]

I think the voice Venli hears in her failed Fused transformation was Odium himself. As we see later in the book, Odium can visit her during the Everstorm's passing. Plus, she was handpicked for her role with envoyform, so it wouldn't be that big of a shocker that the voice she heard was Odium telling the Fused to go away because he had plans for Venli. Plus, why would a Fused listen to anything telling it to stop, other than BAM or Odium himself?

Edited December 30, 2017 by StrikerEZ

[The One Who Connects]

13 hours ago, Darvys said:

I wasn't aware of anything close to that, so thanks for the WoB. In the examples you listed the Thrill seems odd in this context, isn't it confirmed that the Unmade are splinters of Odium ? Why would their influence on a human or listener be a hack? In those cases you have a blank canvas in which you inject one Shard's investiture, what is there to co-opt ?

Remember that Nergaoul himself is red, while the other Unmade are all described as black(Ashertmarn - black heart. Re-Shephir - black tar. Yelig-Nar - black smoke. Sja-Anat - black shadow). Logically, the point of corruption is there, rather than in those he influences.

However, those possessed by Yelig-Nar have red eyes, so the point of corruption should be there.

13 minutes ago, Wit Beyond Measure said:

However, I am also wondering about Eshonai's inner voice (or inner screams, really), the one she suppressed after gaining stormform.

Make assumptions regarding this "hint" we apparently got.

Quote

dragonssleepinfire

After Eshonai bonds the storm spren, she starts hearing this screaming voice in her head. Is that her voice?

Brandon Sanderson

Well, um… It is a combination of her voice and something that is happening with Roshar, and at the end of the next book you’ll get a big clue.

---

13 minutes ago, Wit Beyond Measure said:

Perhaps Sja-anat's (recently?) manifested abilities

I don't believe it's "recent." Credit to The Sovereign for pointing it out to me.

Quote

"Don't tell anyone. I can't say it. I must whisper. I foresaw this."

30-20

a particularly small emerald

This gem entry is from before the Recreance. Seems rather familiar to something we've seen, no?

Edited December 30, 2017 by The One Who Connects

[Wit Beyond Measure]

4 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

This gem entry is from before the Recreance. Seems rather familiar to something we've seen, no?

Absolutely! 

Although, a small part of me does wonder if Truthwatchers weren't always fortune tellers.  After all, a true fortune teller actually watches for the truth, right?  Everyone always says that predicting the future is of Odium, but we watch Honor do it in Dalinar's visions.  And then Honor says he's not nearly as good at seeing the future as Cultivation:

Quote

You’re probably wondering if this is a vision of the future.

...

I cannot see the future completely. Cultivation, she is better at it than I. It’s as if the future is a shattering window. The further you look, the more pieces that window breaks into. The near future can be anticipated, but the distant future … I can only guess.

...

That is what could happen.... It’s what I fear will happen. It’s what he wants. The True Desolation.

Sanderson, Brandon. The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive, Book 1) (p. 995). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

And then we also know that the Truthwatchers were very secretive of their Order.

Quote

Now, as the Truthwatchers were esoteric in nature, their order being formed entirely of those who never spoke or wrote of what they did, in this lies frustration for those who would see their exceeding secrecy from the outside; they were not naturally inclined to explanation; and in the case of Corberon’s disagreements, their silence was not a sign of an exceeding abundance of disdain, but rather an exceeding abundance of tact.

--WoR from the chapter epithets

The crystal panes Renarin uses to tell the future in seem much like the crystal panes that Wyndle makes.  Of course, we never see the future in Wyndle.  I count this theory as plausible though perhaps unlikely.