hoiditthroughthegrapevine

theory
Voidlight is not Odium's Investiture!

69 posts in this topic

Good theory with some pretty convincing evidence! I have only read through half so far so i will edit this when I finish.

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27 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

SUPPORTING DETAILS

The three moons are highly symbolic, and we know that Adonalsium created the Rosharan system before the arrival of Honor, Cultivation and Odium, so it seems somewhat safe to assume that moons existed pre-shattering as well.

  1. Salas the violet moon which rises first in the night time sky (representing the force of investiture that allows the growth of the gemheart vessel that can house the renewable form of investiture, i.e. stormlight)
  2. Nomon the blue moon which rises second and is, according to the Natan origin myth story, the most powerful of the moons (makes sense because it is the most active vehicle for distribution of investiture in the form of Stormlight)
  3. Mishim the green moon that according to the same myth is the cleverest of the moons.

...

TWoK_Rear_Endsheet.jpg

I've barely scratched the surface, but I'm enjoying things so far!  I do have a couple of burning questions:  1.)  How do we know the things I've bolded from your post?  Do you recall a source and an approximate location?  2.) Is this chart in the books?  Which one and where?  I'm having a hard time finding this in my Kindle version.  Thanks!

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1 minute ago, Wit Beyond Measure said:

I've barely scratched the surface, but I'm enjoying things so far!  I do have a couple of burning questions:  1.)  How do we know the things I've bolded from your post?  Do you recall a source and an approximate location?  2.) Is this chart in the books?  Which one and where?  I'm having a hard time finding this in my Kindle version.  Thanks!

The items that you highlighted were parenthetical speculations, you're correct that there is no direct textual proof of either of those statements. They are just logical suppositions, I've edited my post to make this more obvious.

The Voidbinding chart is in the endpapers at the back of the U.S. hardcover edition of The Way of Kings along with a map of Shadesmar. The U.S. hardcover edition also includes the Surgebinding chart and a map of Roshar in the front endpapers.

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2 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

The items that you highlighted were parenthetical speculations, you're correct that there is no direct textual proof of either of those statements. They are just logical suppositions, I've edited my post to make this more obvious.

The Voidbinding chart is in the endpapers at the back of the U.S. hardcover edition of The Way of Kings along with a map of Shadesmar. The U.S. hardcover edition also includes the Surgebinding chart and a map of Roshar in the front endpapers.

Awesome sauce!  Thanks, greatly!  I suspect I am missing some beautiful pictures, sadly, but I wouldn't trade the searchability of Kindle for them.  Maybe I should get some posters, especially the ones of the Oathbringer gods I think I'm also missing.

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@hoiditthroughthegrapevine

The Voidbinder chart at the end of WoK has always baffled me. I appreciate your thoughts on it and the way you analyzed the colors and lines.  You gave me a lot to think about! 

 

Now I wonder if Renarin has one power from the Knights Radiant (progression) and one power (the ability to see the future) from the Voidbringer chart. What happens if you overlay those two charts? His corrupted spren granted powers from two different sources  

I also have wondered about the moons. Blue = Honor, Green = Cultuvation. There are three bondsmiths. Three moons. But Odium is not violet (as you stated). — but some have said red & violet are the same. (I don’t think they are)  The other thing in the books that you didn’t mention that were violet are the wines. I need to go look at that wine illustration again. If somehow the violet wines were influencing Dalinar that entire time he was drinking . . . . . . and consumed by the thrill . . . . 

 

Thanks for your your well thought out post. 

521983C7-2D77-48AB-8F24-1D3ED50C796A.png

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So looking into this more, I think that the Voidbinding chart is actually revealing quite a bit more than you might think at first glance. If there are 3 native types of investiture, keyed to the colors of the moons of Roshar, Violet, Blue and Green, then I think this theory is definitely onto something that has only, up to this point, been adumbrated by a loose collection of details. I have created a labeled Voidbinding chart which I will explain in detail below (the positions of Odium's Champion and BAM are total speculation):

VoidbindingChart_Labeled.jpg.e70581edefc54d2fb08b3241822bd263.jpg

Firstly, as I mentioned in the OP, the fact that all of the orders of voidbinding are linked to eachother by yellow lightning bolt connections while the orders of voidbindings are linked to their associated surges by violet lightning bolts is very significant. I believe the explanation for this is that voidbinding is a magic for controlling a vessel that has access to Investiture. This would make Odium a truly dangerous shard because it would give him the power to corrupt/control investiture from any shard.

I have labeled points of interest on this chart from 1 to 6, and refer to them by number below in this discussion.

The first things of interest are the surges associated with the god's eye orders of Voidbinders. Note how the surges of tension (1) and Illumination (4) are encapsulated in blue with spikes of energy that radiate inwards and that these are further encapsulated by violet spikes radiating outwards towards the left hand surges. Note how this is then mildly inverted for the surges of Adhesion (3) and Progression (6), where the surges are encapsulated in violet which radiates inwardly and this is encapsulated by green spikes of energy that radiate outwards towards the right hand surges.

This would seem to imply an overlap of the 3 native types of Investiture to Roshar, and further seems to imply (by the vertical stacking order) a more meaningful relationship. The blue (honor coded) surges seem to imply that Stormlight can be converted into violet light investiture. While the green (cultivation coded) surges seem to imply that violet light investiture can be converted into Life force energy (for want of a better thing to call Cultivation specific Investiture).

Some possible ramifications of the above observations (which are totally speculative):

  1. Perhaps Odium can only pick a bondsmith or a truthwatcher as his Champion
  2. Perhaps Renarin is able to use the voidbinding surge of illumination to see the future without having his eyes go red, because it's a matter of converting stormlight into violet light investiture and has nothing to do with Odium interferring directly with the surge of Illumination.

 

There are possibly many more ramifications, but I think that this chart is information rich, and that the linkages and relationships in this chart are incredibly meaningful.

Edited by hoiditthroughthegrapevine
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I don't see anything in your post that would contradict voibinding/light being of Odium other than the colors not matching, which is a moot point since if as you assume Honor's color is blue then that wouldn't fit stormlight being always white ( don't know where you got the blue stormlight ? ). 

The only other argument you give is a massive leap in my view, you take the absence of red glow in Renarin's eyes to somehow mean that the Fused' use of voidbinding is a hack, when the much simpler explanation is that the red glow is due to the use of the voidlight to power whatever magic you're using, the glow comes from holding a specific investiture not using surges.

Then there's the whole consuming gemhearts to get investiture bit, i don't know where that comes from, but i guess the theory needs a way to separate Odium from voidlight so whatever. 

We know there's likely more to the Everstorm than just a way to bypass Braize, it somehow healed the parshmen and allowed them to regain their minds.

Venli got a gem from Gavilar ? i kinda rushed her chapters but i doubt i'd have missed that, my understanding is that Gavilar had two gems, one holding Yelignar that remained in Kholinar and was used by Aesudan, and the one he gave Szeth for safekeeping. But anyway, Sja-Anat could or could not be involved in the whole mess in the plains, remember that Taln had already fallen at that point so voidspren were loose and it made sense they'd flock to the only band of listeners capable of forming bonds let alone the fact that Odium planned the whole thing anyway so they'd go where he points. As for Renarin's spren, he could have been created anywhere then went looking for a viable host.

 

For the Voidbinding chart, the interpretation seems rather random to me, but i'll leave that to people more versed in Brandon's magic systems.

 

Edited by Darvys
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First have an upvote, no theory is worth anything if it can't stand up to challenges.

1 hour ago, Darvys said:

I don't see anything in your post that would contradict voibinding/light being of Odium other than the colors not matching, which is a moot point since if as you assume Honor's color is blue then that wouldn't fit stormlight being always white ( don't know where you got the blue stormlight ? ). 

I have been looking for textual references to find how I got the impression that Stormlight was blue-ish tinged, but all the ones I've found so far mention it as white. I know that I have the impression that it is blue, but I have been unable to find any specific references. I always imagined it as a brilliant white with a faint nimbus of blue around it (like the light given off by flash powder mixed with Copper (I) chloride):

1508186494_016482083a_z.jpg?zz=1

 

Stormlight is also constantly referred to as luminescent smoke, and from first hand experience as a smoker, I can tell you that smoke has a slight blueish tinge to it as well.

1 hour ago, Darvys said:

The only other argument you give is a massive leap in my view, you take the absence of red glow in Renarin's eyes to somehow mean that the Fused' use of voidbinding is a hack, when the much simpler explanation is that the red glow is due to the use of the voidlight to power whatever magic you're using, the glow comes from holding a specific investiture not using surges.

There's a WoB that explicitly states that the color red signifies co-opted investiture:

Quote

FirstSelector [PENDING REVIEW]

Does red in cosmere signify one Shard co-opting or corrupting another Shard's magic?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes.

So the fact that the Fused, the Stormform Parshendi and the Alethi being controlled by the Thrill all have red eyes is indicative that they are under the influence of one shard that has co-opted investiture from another source.

1 hour ago, Darvys said:

Then there's the whole consuming gemhearts to get investiture bit, i don't know where that comes from, but i guess the theory needs a way to separate Odium from voidlight so whatever. 

This is the speculative part of theory, to try and explain why the Fused give off the violet light and seem to have a nearly limitless supply of violet light investiture. When Moash visits Hnanan, who is a highprince among the Fused, he sees some of the flying fused, casually floating while reading books:

Quote

Near the king's chambers, Moash passed two Fused reading books in the library. They'd removed their lengthy coats, floating with bare feet peeking from loose rippling trousers, toes pointed downward.

Supposedly the SIngers with their gemhearts are better vessels for maintaining stormlight, but not perfect (like a perfect gem). If the Fused float even when doing something as mundane as reading a book, this implies that they don't view violet light investiture as a limited resource, even though the Everstorm at this point is only coming once every 9 days.

1 hour ago, Darvys said:

Venli got a gem from Gavilar ? i kinda rushed her chapters but i doubt i'd have missed that, my understanding is that Gavilar had two gems, one holding Yelignar that remained in Kholinar and was used by Aesudan, and the one he gave Szeth for safekeeping. But anyway, Sja-Anat could or could not be involved in the whole mess in the plains, remember that Taln had already fallen at that point so voidspren were loose and it made sense they'd flock to the only band of listeners capable of forming bonds let alone the fact that Odium planned the whole thing anyway so they'd go where he points. As for Renarin's spren, he could have been created anywhere then went looking for a viable host.

I mis-typed that, it was Eshonai who recieved the sphere from Gavilar (this has been edited in the original post). While true that Renarin's spren could have been corrupted at a different location, I think the more telling bit is that the Parshendi had access to a vast number of red stormform spren, which I still think are corrupted windspren.

There might be something off in my analysis, but the coloring of the Voidbinding chart is as it is. I think that it is significant and should be looked at with more scrutiny.

Edited by hoiditthroughthegrapevine
found a better picture of luminescent blue tinged light/smoke
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@hoiditthroughthegrapevine I haven't seen it mentioned much on the forums, but through discord I know there's a good chunk of us who believe that the Fused aren't Voidbinding.

Their surges function in fundamentally the same way as they do for Radiants, and the change to the radial symmetry of the surge glyphs on the Voidbinding seems to imply that the surge functions differently (obviously this is all speculation). 

So I, and a at least a few others, think that the Fused are just surgebinding with a hack to fuel the surges via Voidlight. 

By this logic, the only voidbinding that we have seen thus far is Renarin's use of the Voidbinding version of illumination for his foresight. 

Just throwing out something else to think about. I disagree with your premise, primarily because of this epigraph. 

Quote

"Ba-Ado-Mishram has somehow Connected with the parsh people, as Odium once did. She provides Voidlight and facilitates forms of power. Our strike team is going to imprison her."

BAM provides Voidlight, as Odium once did. 

I believe with an active Desolation, and Odium on Roshar, Odium is directly providing the Voidlight to fuel his minions. 

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This is quite impressive. I am going to do some thinking on this and come back. 

I've been constantly bothered by evidences throughout the books that imply that there are three systems/sources/somethings significant to Roshar, and yet that Odium is not a part of them. Your theory does a lot to make sense of that. Plus the moons are unquestionably important, since Wit took the time to delve into a story about them, and your interpretation works quite well to me. The violet light vs. golden light thing is probably my biggest selling point, though. They're so obviously different, readers could easily just run with it. It seems exactly like something Brandon would do. Obviously incongruent, but just in the background enough to escape notice.

All that said, I do agree with Calderis that you might not be quite on with your interpretation of the Fused, mostly because there's still so much confusion regarding the Fused and voidbinding in the first place. As we clear that up, it might still leave room for much of your theory, though.

Edited by Stormlightning
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17 minutes ago, Calderis said:

So I, and a at least a few others, think that the Fused are just surgebinding with a hack to fuel the surges via Voidlight. 

I think this is true as well, I think the hack to fuel the surges is the conversion of the gemheart (physically manifest investiture) into kinetic investiture (the violet light that is seen like a nimbus around the flying Fused in particular). This investiture is used to access the normal surges (ineffeciently) and the voidbinding aspect of this system is that the vessels capable of accessing investiture are controlled by Odium.

14 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Just throwing out something else to think about. I disagree with your premise, primarily because of this epigraph. 

Quote

"Ba-Ado-Mishram has somehow Connected with the parsh people, as Odium once did. She provides Voidlight and facilitates forms of power. Our strike team is going to imprison her."

BAM provides Voidlight, as Odium once did. 

I believe with an active Desolation, and Odium on Roshar, Odium is directly providing the Voidlight to fuel his minions. 

I think that this is true as well, but we know that there are 10 orders of Voidbinding shown on the voidbinding chart but Nine is Odium's number. My postulate on this front is that Odium fills in the role (or his proxy, Odium's Champion) of the what would be the order of the Voidbinding Bondsmith. That's why there are only 9 types of Fused and 9 types of voidbinding. This of course, is speculation too.

 

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2 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

VoidbindingChart_Labeled.jpg.e70581edefc54d2fb08b3241822bd263.jpg

Eek!  I think I'm in love with these additions!  I was trying ever so hard to make sense of all of the glyphs, and you've done a brilliant job.  I'm not sure if the glyphs had a key in the book or not, but I was struggling hard.  Now that they are identified, I can't help but notice how the Void glyphs for the orders and the surges resemble and yet are fundamentally different from the Surgebinder glyphs for orders and surges, https://coppermind.net/wiki/File:TWoK_Front_Endsheet.jpg.  Could the differences be because the orders and surges are corrupted with corrupt spren?  

Edited by Wit Beyond Measure
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1 hour ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

First have an upvote, no theory is worth anything if it can't stand up to challenges.

I have been looking for textual references to find how I got the impression that Stormlight was blue-ish tinged, but all the ones I've found so far mention it as white. I know that I have the impression that it is blue, but I have been unable to find any specific references. I always imagined it as a brilliant white with a faint nimbus of blue around it (like the light given off by flash powder mixed with Copper (I) chloride):

It might be from the WoR cover?

wordsofradiance-809x538.jpg

Edited by RShara
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1 hour ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

I have been looking for textual references to find how I got the impression that Stormlight was blue-ish tinged, but all the ones I've found so far mention it as white.

 

Quote

Pole-mounted gem lamps ringed [the king's island], glowing with blue Stormlight, and a firepit dominated the center of the platform.

Sanderson, Brandon. The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive, Book 1) (p. 325). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

There are many instances of blue Stormlight mentioned in WoK, such as this one, but all might be from sapphires.

All of this has gotten me thinking about eye color, as well.  Ash's eyes, for which she is famous, are a violet so pale they are almost white.  Taln's are dark.  But don't the rest have light blue eyes?  Light eyes, for sure.  I don't know if they are blue.  

 

Edited by Wit Beyond Measure
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39 minutes ago, Wit Beyond Measure said:

There are many instances of blue Stormlight mentioned in WoK, such as this one, but all might be from sapphires.

All of this has gotten me thinking about eye color, as well.  Ash's eyes, for which she is famous, are a violet so pale they are almost white.  Taln's are dark.  But don't the rest have light blue eyes?  Light eyes, for sure.  I don't know if they are blue. 

I think you are right, the only stormlight that is directly referenced as blue is coming from sapphire colored gems. I only have physical and audiobook copies of the books, so I don't have the searchable power of kindle editions. But I found about 3 references that mention stormlight as white light, like luminescent smoke, so maybe my impression came from the cover of WoR like @RShara found (nice find by the way). I still think there might be some reference where Kaladin puffs out blue smoke, but it's very hard to find when combing through physical copies.

IIRC, eye color only changes when a KR summons a shard weapon, and the coloring of the eyes seems to reflect the color of the gem associated with the KRs order. Kaladin's eyes turn blue (like sapphire) and Lift's eyes turn white (like diamond at the battle of Thaylen fields after summoning her shard pole). I don't know if a lighteyed KRs eye color changes, when Shallan summons Pattern their is no mention (that I remember) of her eye color changing. And likewise when Renarin summons Glys for the first time in front of Adolin, Adolin doesn't mention his eye color changing either. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but I don't think we have an onscreen instance of it occuring (but I totally could be wrong too).

I don't think the eyes of the heralds match the color of the gemstone corresponding to their order from the 10 essences table in Ars Arcanum. Jezrein has dark eyes (if they matched they would be sapphire blue), and Taln has dark eyes as well (if they matched they would be yellowy/amber orange like Topaz).

Also that labeled voidbinding chart was made using the corresponding names of the Orders of Knights Radiant from the Surgebinding chart, so that is not necessarily what the orders of Voidbinders are called, the labels are just showing how the voidbinding orders relate to the surgebinding orders. Glad you liked the chart, I think the best observation was the pattern of coloration of the energy/connection lines.

Edited by hoiditthroughthegrapevine
typo, like usual
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14 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

I think you are right, the only stormlight that is directly referenced as blue is coming from sapphire colored gems. I only have physical and audiobook copies of the books, so I don't have the searchable power of kindle editions. But I found about 3 references that mention stormlight as white light, like luminescent smoke, so maybe my impression came from the cover of WoR like @RShara found (nice find by the way). I still think there might be some reference where Kaladin puffs out blue smoke, but it's very hard to find when combing through physical copies.

IIRC, eye color only changes when a KR summons a shard weapon, and the coloring of the eyes seems to reflect the color of the gem associated with the KRs order. Kaladin's eyes turn blue (like sapphire) and Lift's eyes turn white (like diamond at the battle of Thaylen fields after summoning her shard pole). I don't know if a lighteyed KRs eye color changes, when shallan summons Pattern their is no mention (that I remember) of her eye color changing. And likewise when Renarin summons Glys for the first time in front of Adolin, Adolin doesn't mention his eye color changing either. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but I don't think we have an onscreen instance of it occuring (but I totally could be wrong too).

I don't think the eyes of the heralds match the color of the gemstone corresponding to their order from the 10 essences table in Ars Arcanum. Jezrein has dark eyes (if they matched they would be sapphire blue), and Taln has dark eyes as well (if they matched they would be yellowy/amber orange like Topaz).

Also that labeled voidbinding chart was made using the corresponding names of the Orders of Knights Radiant from the Surgebinding chart, so that is not necessarily what the orders of Voidbinders are called, the labels are just showing how the voidbinding orders relate to the surgebinding orders. Glad you liked the chart, I think the best observation was the patterns of coloration of the energy/connection lines.

I think the Heralds' eyes only change when wielding their Honorblades.  That's what happens with Szeth, anyway.

Syl is blue-white.

The Radiants in Dalinar's visions wore Shardplate that glowed with their color, and several of them were Windrunners, so glowed blue.

Kaladin's Sylblade glows blue

 

Those are the only instances of non-sapphire blue glowishness that I can find in all 3 books.

 

Edited by RShara
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1 hour ago, Wit Beyond Measure said:

Eek!  I think I'm in love with these additions!  I was trying ever so hard to make sense of all of the glyphs, and you've done a brilliant job.  I'm not sure if the glyphs had a key in the book or not, but I was struggling hard.  Now that they are identified, I can't help but notice how the Void glyphs for the orders and the surges resemble and yet are fundamentally different from the Surgebinder glyphs for orders and surges, https://coppermind.net/wiki/File:TWoK_Front_Endsheet.jpg.  Could the differences be because the orders and surges are corrupted with corrupt spren?  

There is also this post that really heped me out theorize with the void chart if you need more help

 

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13 minutes ago, RShara said:

I think the Heralds' eyes only change when wielding their Honorblades.  That's what happens with Szeth, anyway.

Syl is blue-white.

The Radiants in Dalinar's visions wore Shardplate that glowed with their color, and several of them were Windrunners, so glowed blue.

Kaladin's Sylblade glows blue

 

Those are the only instances of non-sapphire blue glowishness that I can find in all 3 books.

All of this totally makes sense, thanks for looking those up!

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4 hours ago, Calderis said:

@hoiditthroughthegrapevine I haven't seen it mentioned much on the forums, but through discord I know there's a good chunk of us who believe that the Fused aren't Voidbinding.

Their surges function in fundamentally the same way as they do for Radiants, and the change to the radial symmetry of the surge glyphs on the Voidbinding seems to imply that the surge functions differently (obviously this is all speculation). 

So I, and a at least a few others, think that the Fused are just surgebinding with a hack to fuel the surges via Voidlight. 

By this logic, the only voidbinding that we have seen thus far is Renarin's use of the Voidbinding version of illumination for his foresight. 

Just throwing out something else to think about. I disagree with your premise, primarily because of this epigraph. 

BAM provides Voidlight, as Odium once did. 

I believe with an active Desolation, and Odium on Roshar, Odium is directly providing the Voidlight to fuel his minions. 

To be fair when this story started we thought void bringers were some demonic god like cancer. Then we thought they were the manipulated parschendi, then we realized it was the humans some of whom use surgebinding, at the current position its pretty clear that humans and parshendi alike are able to pick sides, maybe not easily, but we all see its possible. Maybe even spren, void spren, and possibly unmade can change sides.  Point is words aren't always true, especially when special interest groups are the only one with control of the books.  I guess I just saying voidlight, schmoidlight, what does voidbinding or voidbringring even mean anymore.  It seems to me the magic is similar, but  the religious and cultural perspectives change which create all the fun bits.

PS,  OH to be clear I agree in the belief that void light is similar to stormlight balance and all that, but more importantly was part of Roshar before the the shards shatterered and clung to it all. 

PSS. Also First of Sun doesn't have a shard supposedly, but appears to have some kind of investiture, so once again I agree that certain powers seem to exist on pre-shard planets in the cosmere. 

Edited by Mutantspicy
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8 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

There's a WoB that explicitly states that the color red signifies co-opted investiture:

So the fact that the Fused, the Stormform Parshendi and the Alethi being controlled by the Thrill all have red eyes is indicative that they are under the influence of one shard that has co-opted investiture from another source.

I wasn't aware of anything close to that, so thanks for the WoB. In the examples you listed the Thrill seems odd in this context, isn't it confirmed that the Unmade are splinters of Odium ? Why would their influence on a human or listener be a hack ?  In those cases you have a blank canvas in which you inject one Shard's investiture, what is there to co-opt ?

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7 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

I think you are right, the only stormlight that is directly referenced as blue is coming from sapphire colored gems. I only have physical and audiobook copies of the books, so I don't have the searchable power of kindle editions. But I found about 3 references that mention stormlight as white light, like luminescent smoke, so maybe my impression came from the cover of WoR like @RShara found (nice find by the way). I still think there might be some reference where Kaladin puffs out blue smoke, but it's very hard to find when combing through physical copies.

I couldn't find any instances of "blue smoke" that relate to Kaladin, unfortunately.  When combing through WoK searching "blue," I did see several instances when Kal's hand glowed blue, but in each instance it was either clear or at least implied that Kal was holding a sphere, perhaps a sapphire one.  There might have been something I missed (skimmed because there is a lot of blue, of course) or something in the other two books.

I love that the gods match the moon colors in Wit's story, but I do think that the story itself needs to make sense when we match the gods up properly.  Tsa has a white light associated with her since the moon becomes white.  

It would make sense that Odium would have tricked a god into something, but would he have had a child with a god?  Could the white actually represent the people?  Did the people trick Cultivation in order to get with Honor and form an alliance with Honor?  Resulting in the birth of the Heralds?

Sorry, that would put Odium back as the violet light.  Perhaps there is a way to make the story make sense with Odium as the white light?  And then who is the violet light?  Just BAM?  Thank you!

Edited by Wit Beyond Measure
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I'm definitely onboard with this idea. I put forth the idea that the third moon/investiture on Roshar might be from a source other than Odium before and this line of reasoning certainly supports that. Following along these lines, I can definitely get behind the idea of BAM being related to the non-Honor/Cultivation investiture. I don't like the idea of BAM for the Sibling, because I think that the Stormfather would have had some insight in that vein. 

I also think that there's a way to fit this theory together with the Nohadon theory.

 

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3 minutes ago, Jhardin said:

I'm definitely onboard with this idea. I put forth the idea that the third moon/investiture on Roshar might be from a source other than Odium before and this line of reasoning certainly supports that. Following along these lines, I can definitely get behind the idea of BAM being related to the non-Honor/Cultivation investiture. I don't like the idea of BAM for the Sibling, because I think that the Stormfather would have had some insight in that vein. 

I also think that there's a way to fit this theory together with the Nohadon theory.

 

Gasp.  Nohadon is the Sibling.

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Just now, RShara said:

Gasp.  Nohadon is the Sibling.

No need for sarcasm. Its just a suggestion that I feel like both points are headed in the right direction based on what we know. kthx.

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