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Need Help Pairing Up Shards With Numbers

Cosmernaut

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Cosmernaut

Cosmernaut

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Just as the title says. I read in WoB that each of the Shards coincide with a number. Theories are accepted here so they don’t need to be concrete.

Theories I’ve seen so far:

Endowment: 5

Odium: 9

Honor: 10

Ruin: 11

Preservation: 16

Any other numbers for the other known Shards?

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Shqueeves

Shqueeves

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Not every Shard corresponds with a number https://wob.coppermind.net/events/47/#e678

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The Only Joe (paraphrased)

Do all shards have a number they're associated with?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Some do, (most/some) don't.

Could you link to your WoB that says that each Shard has a number? 

 

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Calderis

Calderis

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I take any WoB that includes "am I on to something," "is there any connection," or "is it possible," with a huge grain of salt. 

We know some shards are affiliated with numbers. That's enough for "something" in that WoB. 

Most numbers that we have definitive connections given, are to a planet itself. 10 for the greater Roshar system, 9 for Braize alone. 16 for the Cosmere as a whole. 

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Carbonationspren

Carbonationspren

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12 minutes ago, Cosmernaut said:

Eleven Hemalurgic spikes.

I think that the number eleven in this case is just arbitrary. After the Collapse, when Ruin had more control of the inquisitors, he gave them more spikes. The Lord Ruler didn't give them more spikes to limit their power, not because 11 was special. 11 just gave them what they needed.

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Yata

Yata

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Yeah there is no correlation between the 11 and Ruin. Ruin is honestly linked to the 16 exactly like preservation is.

The mainly theory (that could be wrong) is about the planets themself to have some weird constants who influence the magic...In this scenario the "magic numbers" are dictate by the planet more than the Shards and still is a loose correlation

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Cosmernaut

Cosmernaut

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6 hours ago, Yata said:

Yeah there is no correlation between the 11 and Ruin. Ruin is honestly linked to the 16 exactly like preservation is.

The mainly theory (that could be wrong) is about the planets themself to have some weird constants who influence the magic...In this scenario the "magic numbers" are dictate by the planet more than the Shards and still is a loose correlation

Really? That is... slightly disappointing. But only slightly. I thought there was some overarching theme with the Shards. Numbers gave the impression of a ‘pantheon’.

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Cosmernaut

Cosmernaut

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13 hours ago, Carbonationspren said:

I think that the number eleven in this case is just arbitrary. After the Collapse, when Ruin had more control of the inquisitors, he gave them more spikes. The Lord Ruler didn't give them more spikes to limit their power, not because 11 was special. 11 just gave them what they needed.

Is it? I thought the number was too specific. I’m probably wrong though.

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Yata

Yata

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13 hours ago, Cosmernaut said:

Is it? I thought the number was too specific. I’m probably wrong though.

Yeah and not all the Inquisitors of TLR's time had the exact same number of Spikes. Some of them had some "weird" spike like F-Atium for reasons we honestly don't know.

Anyway also if all the Inquisitors had 11 Spikes, this isn't any kind of proof about a Ruin's number, Inquisitors are only one of the bunch of possible Hemalurgy Constructs, they are not more important than Koloss (4 Spikes) or Kandra (2 Spikes) or any other possible Construct.

If you want to find some kind of constant in Hemalurgy, you may try to search somewhere else, for example 4 Spikes are needed to control an Humans (and I assume any other standard mortal without Realmatic weirdness) or (as said before) the Hemalurgy is 16 based exactly like Hemalurgy or Feruchemy.

For a while (when I was really try to find "Shard's number" for another Sharder) I put together those stuff trying to give Ruin the number 4 and links to the Hemalurgy with the Fault I already explained and the 4^2=16 as the Number of metal....But honestly it's a completelly arbitrary stuff.

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Lord Bookwyrm

Lord Bookwyrm

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On 2017. 12. 29. at 8:13 AM, Yata said:

Yeah and not all the Inquisitors of TLR's time had the exact same number of Spikes. Some of them had some "weird" spike like F-Atium for reasons we honestly don't know.

This is probably something more to do with the accessibility of metals rather than anything else e.g. chromium, nicrosil etc. all had quite useful allomantic effects, but it was hard to get access to them before the Catacendre. Remember, things there aren't like on Earth. Aluminium being worth more than gold, and they were far less technologically advanced, which made it hard to get metals above carbon in the reactivity series.

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The One Who Connects

The One Who Connects

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On 12/27/2017 at 11:20 PM, Cosmernaut said:

Eleven Hemalurgic spikes.

So... about that:

On 6/19/2017 at 9:32 PM, The One Who Connects said:

Additionally, there is a line in HoA when Vin first sees Marsh in his full 22 spiked glory:

Quote

Normal Inquisitors had nine spikes. The one she'd killed with Elend had ten. Marsh appeared to have upwards of twenty. He growled softly.

This is from near the end of HoA, two entire books after Marsh mentions having 11 spikes in TFE. His eleven appears to be the exception to the rule.

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Yata

Yata

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9 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

So... about that:

This is from near the end of HoA, two entire books after Marsh mentions having 11 spikes in TFE. His eleven appears to be the exception to the rule.

Yeah a standard Inquisitor is probably made with one Spike for avaliable allomantic power except Gold. Starting from a Seeker, you will got a Mistborn-like being with double Bronze.

If the guy was a Mistborn from the beginning, probably 8 Spikes are enough as double Atium is not really useful and probably an Atium Spike is better to go to someone without that power (without consider the rarity)

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Weltall

Weltall

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As noted, Preservation and Ruin are both associated with 16 since that's the number of viable metals (not counting the godmetals and potential alloys of them) and Preservation explicitly used that number as his 'signature'. Honor and Cultivation are also firmly associated with 10 while Odium (being Invested on Braize rather than Roshar) is associated with 9.

Beyond that, we have no hard associations and there are so many things we don't know about various systems so any attempt to work out numeric associations in Selish magics or Sand Mastery are just guesswork. BioChroma's also got various possibilities but we know Brandon is holding onto information about that magic for the planned second book. And since we've got that WoB that not all Shards have any particular numeric associations, it's entirely possible that there are none for these other magic systems. And in Autonomy's case, there may be multiple associations since Bavadin isn't limiting her focus to a single world.

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