Crysanja Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 his actions in this book feel realy odd. i mean he knows what Dalinar goes through in the Highstorms - so why keep everything secret? but he just keeps increasing all the confuision with writing down this countdown on the walls. he propably even has/had more information about it. training/fighting with a screaming Shardblade is not an issue to speak about for him either? but when it actualy comes to fighting he cant do it, but telling about the problem is not an option? ok maybe he didnt breath in Stormlight consiously, but healing his eyesight is nothing to speak about too. hey i dont put on my glasses anymore, im even more odd to run around "bilnd" ! then his box - he propably keeps his Spren locked in it? playing around with it all the time. the next odd action - joining bridge 4, again a crazy action, without an explanation for us. he propably argues hours and hours with Dalinar and Adolin, but never mentioned anything from the above. and he must have way more "oddities" we havent seen, which others know. do you have any insight into him? for me it feels just wrong, like Brandon forgot to finish him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 He's trying very hard to prove his capability after years of being considered half a man by most, even his closest family. That leads to a mot of bottling up as he tries to be what the people around him want to be. The Alethi aren't exactly a communicative thoightful culture. And we never see him learn much in his training. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colby Jack Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Doesn't feel right, does it? When you put a character up on a pedestal and then it turns out that he just doesn't perform as well as you've expected. I hope the burn wasn't too bad. A lot of people here really liked Renarin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysanja Posted March 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 he just could have done so much. and speaking about his discoverys/problems could have helped him alot too. kind of funny that he dicided to met up with Shallan, Kaladin and Dalinar at the end of the book, up the tower. i have my personal theory, that the book didnt have enough space for some things. like more of Shallans paintings. or more about Renarin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raevun Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Judging from the Truthwatcher excerpt, his oddness is entirely intentional and not an oversight. Now, as the Truthwatchers were esoteric in nature, their order being formed entirely of those who never spoke or wrote of what they did, in this lies frustration for those who would see their exceeding secrecy from the outside; they were not naturally inclined to explanation; and in the case of Corberon's disagreements, their silence was not a sign of an exceeding abundance of disdain, but rather an exceeding abundance of tact. I don't think we're going to be getting much sense from Renarin for a while. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tarion Posted March 4, 2014 Popular Post Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 I think everything Renarin does makes sense if you believe that he doesn't trust his spren. He's come to the same conclusion as Lift - That he's bonded to a Voidbringer. Only he doesn't accept it as readily as she does. My conclusion (Listed in the Surgebinding/Knights Radiant thread) is that Truthwatchers have some way of predicting the future. Not by magic, like Voidbinding, but through pattern spotting and logical inference, the same way as Taravangian's Diagram. Imagine if you started being able to do that, in Alethi society? You'd keep it quiet too. There are some clues all the way in book one. Notice that he's the one most familiar with the Old Magic. He's the one that pushes for them to prove Dalinar's visions, and comes up with sound ways to do it. He isn't distressed at the thought of Dalinar seeing the past, but is less comfortable with the idea of seeing the future. Sure, it's not conclusive, but it makes sense. It's the research I'd be doing if I thought something was magically wrong with me. But then you get to Words of Radiance. He doesn't mention his issue with Shards, because Shards were designed to kill Voidbringers. What does it mean that he can't handle them? The logical conclusion, from what he knows, is that he's somehow tainted. He doesn't mention his predictions of the future, because he seems them as a curse. Seeing the future is "the essence of Voidbinding", after all. “I can see the future itself. Why? Why, Almighty? Why have you cursed me so?” He doesn't mention his healing, because it ties back to his spren. I'm guessing he joins Bridge 4 because his spren spotted Syl (Much as Syl spotted Pattern), and he wanted to find out more. I'm guessing his spren pushed him to it as proof that he's not evil. At the end of the book, with the revelation about the new Knights Radiant, he finally starts believing his spren, doesn't think he's evil anymore, and reveals himself. 28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysanja Posted March 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 ah this makes alot more sence. guess i forgot this part you found Raevun was is part of the "words of radiance" book from Shallan? -- about this topic i thought this would be a good start into the discussion. the topic does not spoiler much, Renarin was allways a bit odd, but you will know what it is about =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post FeatherWriter Posted March 4, 2014 Popular Post Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 HELLO FRIENDS THERE IS A RENARIN TOPIC I AM HERE So, let's talk about him a bit, shall we? First of all, when we talk about Renarin, something that we have to remember is that he is not neurotypical. Renarin is confirmed for be on the Autism Spectrum and his epilepsy is a part of this. Brandon consulted with a fan who has a very similar condition to Renarin to make sure that Renarin's behavior is accurate on this front. Elise Warren. She's mentioned in the acknowledgements. (And she's also one of my very best friends.) A lot of his behavior has to do with this. For instance, the box that he fiddles with is a stim (stimulation) toy, just a small piece that he can fiddle with to calm himself down and relax. Repetitive movements and actions are often calming to ASD people, and being able to fiddle with it is a coping mechanism for him and is mostly subconscious. Whether or not there's a magic system element to the box or if he keeps Glys in there, we don't know, but I'd say there's a good chance that there's not anything supernatural about it and it's just a stim toy. Why didn't he mention anything about the things he was seeing? Remember, this is Vorin society. Telling the future is EXPLICITLY taboo. So... not only is Renarin terrified that he's manifesting powers that he doesn't want, but they're also incredibly blasphemous powers. He already feels somewhat outcast and separate from the people around him and he knows that he's different, so he tries to hide it and suppress it and make it go away. It isn't until the other three Surgebinders reveal what they can do that he finally gets the courage to reveal himself. In the last chapter before the epilogue - when he finally reveals himself Dalinar asks why he kept hidden: "And the Shardblade," Dalinar said, stepping over and taking his son by the shoulder. "You hear screams. That's what happened to you in the arena. You couldn't fight because of those shouts in your head from summoning the Blade. Why? Why didn't you say anything?" "I thought it was me," Renarin whispered. "My mind." Renarin thought that he was going mad or being cursed with visions of the future. He took his Shardblade's screaming to be a sign of that. And Light above, but I am so incredibly proud of him in this book. He was absolutely marvelous and the fact that he did all of the things he did while enduring that kind of horrifying situation, the fact that he went to protect Adolin in the arena without Shardplate, without training, withiout any idea that he was going to survive, on top of the fact that his Blade was screaming in agony at him the entire time and then continuing to hold his ground through the midst of an epileptic seizure and panic attack... I just... If you aren't apreciative of how overwhemlingly strong of a character Renarin is... you definitely need to reread. 38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Didn't Brandon say he wouldn't even be Asperger's level on the Autism Spectrum(Which technically(Aspergers at least) doesn't really exist anymore as of DSM V) That's not a debilitating level of not nuerotypical, and nowhere near the need for Stimming... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeatherWriter Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Aspergers level aren't the only ones who use stim behavior! Not at all! I'd say that it's probably a very common type of behavior because it's easy to accomplish and it's soothing. I know I talk about Ellie a lot but she's a lot like Renarin when it comes to neurotype stuff. She's not Asperger's level either, but she uses stim behavior quite a bit. I'm pretty sure her epilepsy is about Renarin level as well. (I want to try making her a duplicate of Renarin's stim toy box just as a way of saying thank you to her for helping Brandon with Renarin's character!) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chlehrma Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Well. We still do not know what kind of spren he has...and seeing the future is of Odium...so maybe he has bound a voidspren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeatherWriter Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Light, I hope not... Hasn't my poor darling been through enough this book? I would hope Brandon wouldn't be so cruel after all he made Renarin suffer through in this one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesomeness Summoned Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) Tanavast mentioned to Dalinar that Cultivation was good at seeing the future as well so some of the surges coming from her spren could grant that power. It was just the church that spread the idea that seeing the future was of the voidbringers. Edit: i think the deck would be stacked too highly in the void's favor if they could see the future and the light side couldn't. Edited March 5, 2014 by Awesomeness Summoned 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Aspergers level aren't the only ones who use stim behavior! Not at all! I'd say that it's probably a very common type of behavior because it's easy to accomplish and it's soothing. I know I talk about Ellie a lot but she's a lot like Renarin when it comes to neurotype stuff. She's not Asperger's level either, but she uses stim behavior quite a bit. I'm pretty sure her epilepsy is about Renarin level as well. (I want to try making her a duplicate of Renarin's stim toy box just as a way of saying thank you to her for helping Brandon with Renarin's character!) Carve it with a rener - neren phonetic glyph structure, assuming those are a thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 when you see it in the right light, his actions make a lot of sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeatherWriter Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 I was actually thinking of using the Truthwatcher glyph! However, I'd like confirmation on which of the orders it is. I think Truthwatchers are #10, Ishi's Order. I think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azul Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 He doesn't mention his healing, because it ties back to his spren. I'm guessing he joins Bridge 4 because his spren spotted Syl (Much as Syl spotted Pattern), and he wanted to find out more. I'm guessing his spren pushed him to it as proof that he's not evil. I think you are spot on on everything Tarion except for why he joined Bridge 4. I imagine its for similar reasons as Elhokar going to Kaladin to ask how to be a hero. He sees a group of men who are former slaves that were beaten down bridgemen and in this group they have become something so much more, even a parshman, and thinks 'maybe it can do the same for me'. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 I think you are spot on on everything Tarion except for why he joined Bridge 4. I imagine its for similar reasons as Elhokar going to Kaladin to ask how to be a hero. He sees a group of men who are former slaves that were beaten down bridgemen and in this group they have become something so much more, even a parshman, and thinks 'maybe it can do the same for me'. That was my initial thought when he joined. But after finding out about his power, I wouldn't be surprised if he saw something that lead him to Bridge 4. so maybe he has bound a voidspren. I strongly doubt it. I'd expect something like that to show in Renaren's personality - either through what had initially attracted it to the young man, or through it exerting influence on him. But we see nothing to suggest that. However, I wouldn't be surprised if *Elhokar* is being influenced by void spren. He mentions to Kaladin that Kaladin's presence seems to drive away whatever it is that he keeps seeing out of the corner of his eye. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Unless Cryptics and honorspren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Unless Cryptics and honorspren. Yeah, but in WoR, Elhokar specifically describes whatever it is he's seeing as "darkness". I was leaning toward cryptics in WotK, but now I'm starting to wonder. Jealousy would certainly be a good word to attach to Elhokar these days, and that's very dark emotion. I could see a void-focused "Envy-Spren" trying to bond with Elhokar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marianmi Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) * There are almost no chances of Renarin being bonded to a voidspren, his behaviour is so much like Truthwatchers described in WoR paragraph * I think Bondsmiths are Ishi #10, both surges have to do with building bonds (adhesion is used by winrunners to stick things, tension is "soft axial interconnection"), and pious/guiding looks more like Dalinar (head of Radiants guiding them) than resolute/builder. We are left with #8 resolute/builder with cohesion + transportation and #5 learned/giving with illumination and progression. #5 being a lot of Cultivation (green color also) would make sense to be the order that sees the "future", but since all the other radiants have the same gender as their heralds (even look like them a bit), I would say Truthwatchers are Kak #8. This would mean Renarin has cohesion and transportation. Being able to "see" and having the possibility of instant travel is useful. Also, being able to "see" can be connected to "motion" and "realmatic transition". * Elhokar is still an interesting subject... I would say voidspren cannot bind with humans (like honorspren and cultivationspren cannot bind with parshendi), only influence them (like the Thrill)... and also Elhokar needs to speak truths in order to bind cryptics, which he did not do until the last assasination attempt, when he was drunk... so I still believe he can become a lightweaver... but anything goes... Edited March 6, 2014 by marianmi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadewolf Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 since all the other radiants have the same gender as their heralds (even look like them a bit) Are you forgetting Ym? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Light, I hope not... Hasn't my poor darling been through enough this book? I would hope Brandon wouldn't be so cruel after all he made Renarin suffer through in this one! I guess I'm saying, that having worked with a multitude of Spectrum Kids where he aits isn't a very debilitating place to be. Just eccentric. The siesures are his only real issue. (I wouldn't call fidgeting with a box stimming though either... My experience with Stimming has always been more severe and entirely attention grabbing. Trying to do line therapy with a kid that only wants to stim is miserable...) Renarin isn't doing anything you're average ADD case wouldn't do. So we can't blame his lack of nuerotypicallity for much. Just siezures we've lkterally never seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fistsofrage Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 * There are almost no chances of Renarin being bonded to a voidspren, his behaviour is so much like Truthwatchers described in WoR paragraph Where is the Truthwatcher paragraph? I don't recall seeing it so i was beginning to assume Renarin might have a voidspren... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 It's an Epigraph. One of the chapters from Words of Radiance as Shallan is reading it. Midbook somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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