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WoR Chapter 84 code


Satsuoni

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That would be confusing because Vedeledev is the "patron Herald" of the Edgedancers (order 4), and Pailiah is the "patron Herald" of the Truthwatchers (order 5).

 

Yeah, also the pictures don't match up. My translations of the calligraphic glyphs are still heavily speculative.

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I have been following this thread eagerly, hoping that smarter minds than mine will find a solution...but I had a few thoughts.

 

1) The people who are working on the diagram in the book are able to tell that one of the entries is a list of dates.  I know that people on the forum have speculated that these are the dates of highstorms, but given the context, I slightly disagree.  Here is my reasoning.  These characters are already very familiar with highstorms and the calculations to predict their occurances, but "(This appears to be a sequence of dates, but their relevance is as yet unknown)".  This tells me that they do not correspond with currently known lists of highstorm dates. My theory is that they may coincide with dates that the Everstorm will occur and cause parshmen to change into the new storm form, or dates that the Everstorm encounters the Highstorms as the two systems circle the globe.

 

2) Many of the references in the epigraphs mention "kingship" or "king".  I believe that this may link something in the epigraphs to either the Brandon Sanderson novel WoK or the in-story Way of Kings that was read by Dalinar in the first book.

 

3)  Floorboard Paragraph 2, sequence 1 references making a Truthless and using him as a weapon, Paragraph 6 expounds on this by saying that the danger in using a weapon like a Truthless is the possible encouragement of those exploring the Nahel bond to say more words and become closer to becoming a Radiant.   

 

4) Floorboard Paragraph 2, sequence 2 talks about a Parshendi who will gain their power and form a bridge.  After reading the Listener epigraphs, it is clear that the Parshendi COULD bond with a spren, but that the spren prefer men.  If a Parshendi were to bond a spren (say Shen aka Rlain for example) then that could form a bridge between the two powers of Honor and Odium.  Hence the desire to have the Alethi wipe them all out.

 

5) I don't know if this is helpful or not, but "They will come you cannot stop their oaths look for those who survive when they should not that pattern will be your clue - From the Diagram, Coda of the Northwest Bottom Corner: paragraph 3"

A "coda" is something that ends and completes something else.  It is the only passage that is identified as a coda.

 

6) does this sequence strike anyone else as odd? "SetoffObviousRealizationlikeapricity"

 

Anyway...that's all I've got...hope some of these ideas spark something for the rest of you!

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I have been following this thread eagerly, hoping that smarter minds than mine will find a solution...but I had a few thoughts.

 

2) Many of the references in the epigraphs mention "kingship" or "king".  I believe that this may link something in the epigraphs to either the Brandon Sanderson novel WoK or the in-story Way of Kings that was read by Dalinar in the first book.

 

5) I don't know if this is helpful or not, but "They will come you cannot stop their oaths look for those who survive when they should not that pattern will be your clue - From the Diagram, Coda of the Northwest Bottom Corner: paragraph 3"

A "coda" is something that ends and completes something else.  It is the only passage that is identified as a coda.

 

6) does this sequence strike anyone else as odd? "SetoffObviousRealizationlikeapricity"

 

Anyway...that's all I've got...hope some of these ideas spark something for the rest of you!

 

I took the liberty of taking some numbers out of your quote, SpydrJOAT, that I didn't have comments on to shorten the post. Hope you don't mind :)

 

These three points have been rolling around in my head the past couple of hours. I am nowhere near as smart as others posting here, so have no hope of figuring this out, but also hope to help if I can!

 

I love #2 because the first thing I did when attempting to find links/patterns on this was look for obvious connections. Specifically, the numbers reference "pattern 15", and there is a specific epigraph that is from the Desk Drawer paragraph 15 (see below)

 

"There is one you will watch. Though all of them have some relevance to precognition, Moelach is one of the most powerful in this regard. His touch seeps into a soul as it breaks apart from the body, creating manifestations powered by the spark of death itself. But no, this is a distraction. Deviation. Kingship. We must discuss the nature of kingship.

 

From the Diagram, Book of the 2nd Desk

Drawer: paragraph 15"

 
That red text is what I found interesting....I have no idea how that could help break a code, but hey, you never know :)
 
#5 I saw this too, and I think it's been mentioned already in this thread, but I agree this is highly suspect unless it's there just to throw us off! As you pointed out, it does specifically reference Coda, pattern and clue...
 
#6 I KNOW RIGHT!?!?!?! That specific passage/epigraph has been driving me NUTS!! What the heck is that supposed to mean?? Hmmmmm....
 
Edit to add more...
 
So expanding on #6 comments above...the other thing that is driving me crazy in this text is the "wherewherewherewhere". That doesn't make sense to me. Also, I have the kindle version of the book because my hardcopy got shipped back to Amazon due to the fact that they couldn't find my address (which is ridiculous because we get packages from UPS and Fedex nearly EVERY DAY GRRRR....) and I didn't want to wait to read the book, so just download the e-copy :) I digress...
 
My point is that in the kindle version at least, this passage matches the "format" of the numbers passage eerily well. Same number of lines, same format. I find it odd if this isn't formatted this way on purpose:
 

111825101112712491512101011141021511

711210111217134483111071514254143410

916149149341212254101012512710151910

111234125511525121575511123410111291

5121061534

 

"AhbuttheywereleftbehindItisobviousfromthenatureof

thebondButwherewherewherewhereSetOffObvious

RealizationlikeapricityTheyarewithintheShinWemust

findoneCanwemaketouseaTruthlessCanwecrafta

weapon

From the Diagram, Floorboard 17: paragraph 2, every second letter starting with the first"

 

Edited by rhaiynebow
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I think Spydr makes an interesting observation in point 2 regarding kings and kingship.

I've been wondering myself about the odd punctuation here:

 

"You must become king. Of Everything."

 

But I've reached the conclusion that this is unlikely to be directly related to the code.

At least I fail to see the logic.

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I did a search on my Kindle for all instances of the word "key" and this popped up:

 

This had to work. It had to. “This is all in the Dawnchant,” Inadara said. “I can’t make sense of any of it.” The Knights Radiant are the key. Shouldn’t Renarin’s sword have been enough? “What’s the pattern?” she whispered. “Mmm  .  .  .” Pattern said. “Perhaps you cannot see it because you are too close? Like the Shattered Plains?” Shallan hesitated, then stood and walked to the center of the room, where the depictions of the Knights
 
Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 1019). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 
 
I have no idea if this is of relevance, but it does directly state what the key is ;) 
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I did a search on my Kindle for all instances of the word "key" and this popped up:

 

This had to work. It had to. “This is all in the Dawnchant,” Inadara said. “I can’t make sense of any of it.” The Knights Radiant are the key. Shouldn’t Renarin’s sword have been enough? “What’s the pattern?” she whispered. “Mmm  .  .  .” Pattern said. “Perhaps you cannot see it because you are too close? Like the Shattered Plains?” Shallan hesitated, then stood and walked to the center of the room, where the depictions of the Knights
 
Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 1019). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 
 
I have no idea if this is of relevance, but it does directly state what the key is ;)

 

 

One of my favourite possibilities!

I've tried KNIGHTSRADIANT as a Vigenère key, without much success.

There's also the epigraph: "They will come you cannot stop their oaths look for those who survive when they should not that pattern will be your clue", which would seem to point to this key.

However, following that line of thought SONSOFHONOR could also be an option as it's implicitly referenced in the chapter 83 epigraph.

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5) I don't know if this is helpful or not, but "They will come you cannot stop their oaths look for those who survive when they should not that pattern will be your clue - From the Diagram, Coda of the Northwest Bottom Corner: paragraph 3"

A "coda" is something that ends and completes something else.  It is the only passage that is identified as a coda.

 

Could it be:

They will come you cannot stop their oaths: Listeners who got turned by their oath with the stormfather

 look for those who survive when they should not : the group that escaped from being killed for their refusal to turn

 

from:

 

“General,” he said to Anxiety. “They’ve escaped!”

“Who?”

“The ones you had us set apart, the ones who did not want to transform. They’ve fled.”

“Well, chase them down,” Eshonai said to Spite. “They can’t get far. The workers won’t be able to jump chasms; they can only go as far as the bridges allow.”

“General! They cut down one of the bridges, then used the ropes to climb down into the chasm itself. They’ve fled through those.”

Edited by shinintendo
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Should we assume that the Ceiling Rotations are related? The other one discusses things like: The Desolation and The Ancient Of Stones (?).  Maybe they're also discussed somewhere in this code as well.  Likely not, but since my code breaking is awful, I may as well offer crazy ideas. 

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Ok, so I'll see what I can do with the paragraph that has the wherewherewherewhere in it and the SetOff...etc. in it. I still think that one, at least by format and content, seems pertinent in that it's odd :)

 Format is different in hard copy.

 

They will come you cannot stop their oaths:  Knights Radiant will return. No possibility to stop every candidate from speaking the words

 look for those who survive when they should not : Kaladin (Fight against shardbearer, bridgeruns, highstorm, etc, etc), Shallan (shipwreck,

killing her mother in self defence with Pattern as shardblade instead of being killed by her

): Surgebinders survive when normal people would not.

 

It's less the stuff in those epigraphs than missing things. Taravangian won't encode something he has written on other places in plaintext.

 

At the moment I am trying some Vigenere chiffres with different keys. The greatest uncertainty however is still the parsing of the Code. Well, and the fact that we don't know what kind of encryption we have to deal with.

 

Although...I don't think it's Vigenere. Most passwords would destroy the symmetry of the code. On the other hand, the symmetry could  be an artifact of our imagination - we simply see ghosts after hours and hours of code-watching...

Edited by Pattern
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Could it be:

They will come you cannot stop their oaths: Listeners who got turned by their oath with the stormfather

 look for those who survive when they should not : the group that escaped from being killed for their refusal to turn

 

from:

 

No, this passage seems fairly straightforward...you could roughly translate this as, "You will know someone who has the potential to become a Radiant and who will be swearing oaths by hearing stories of amazing survival against all odds".

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I have been following this thread eagerly, hoping that smarter minds than mine will find a solution...but I had a few thoughts.

 

1) The people who are working on the diagram in the book are able to tell that one of the entries is a list of dates.  I know that people on the forum have speculated that these are the dates of highstorms, but given the context, I slightly disagree.  Here is my reasoning.  These characters are already very familiar with highstorms and the calculations to predict their occurances, but "(This appears to be a sequence of dates, but their relevance is as yet unknown)".  This tells me that they do not correspond with currently known lists of highstorm dates. My theory is that they may coincide with dates that the Everstorm will occur and cause parshmen to change into the new storm form, or dates that the Everstorm encounters the Highstorms as the two systems circle the globe.

 

My personal theory is that they directly continue the sequence of dates associated with the death messages in the WoK epigraphs.

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/6398-wor-chapter-84-code/?p=104365

 

Do we have any sense of the date when the Diagram was constructed? The dates contained within might be a prediction of future utterances.

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 Format is different in hard copy.

 

They will come you cannot stop their oaths:  Knights Radiant will return. No possibility to stop every candidate from speaking the words

 look for those who survive when they should not : Kaladin (Fight against shardbearer, bridgeruns, highstorm, etc, etc), Shallan (shipwreck,

killing her mother in self defence with Pattern as shardblade instead of being killed by her

): Surgebinders survive when normal people would not.

 

Yea I prefer your interpretation, when I read what you wrote I went -  OF COURSE silly me should've have thought of that hehe

Edited by shinintendo
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 Format is different in hard copy.

 

They will come you cannot stop their oaths:  Knights Radiant will return. No possibility to stop every candidate from speaking the words

 look for those who survive when they should not : Kaladin (Fight against shardbearer, bridgeruns, highstorm, etc, etc), Shallan (shipwreck,

killing her mother in self defence with Pattern as shardblade instead of being killed by her

): Surgebinders survive when normal people would not.

 

It's less the stuff in those epigraphs than missing things. Taravangian won't encode something he has written on other places in plaintext.

 

At the moment I am trying some Vigenere chiffres with different keys. The greatest uncertainty however is still the parsing of the Code. Well, and the fact that we don't know what kind of encryption we have to deal with.

 

Although...I don't think it's Vigenere. Most passwords would destroy the symmetry of the code. On the other hand, the symmetry could  be an artifact of our imagination - we simply see ghosts after hours and hours of code-watching...

 

Agreed on both points. The Vigenere is one of my favorite ciphers, so I played with that early on -- but I couldn't find a logical way to set up the rows & columns that was consistent with any of the number parsings.

Edited by Harakeke
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Do we have any sense of the date when the Diagram was constructed? The dates contained within might be a prediction of future utterances.

 

In the Taravangian interlude, the chart lists the last 500 days, and based on this quote, it doesn't seem that the Diagram Day was included in that, but I could be misreading:

 

“So this is where I was most intelligent,” Taravangian said, pointing at the last point on the chart. It was far to the right, and very close to the bottom. A representation of high intelligence and a low frequency of occurrence. “This was that day, that day of perfection.” “No,” Adrotagia said. “What?” “That was the time you were the most intelligent during the last five hundred days,” Adrotagia explained. “This point represents the day you finished the most complex problems you’d left for yourself, and the day you devised new ones for use in future tests.” “I remember that day,” he said. “It
 
Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 907). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 
 
Edited to remove an extraneous word
Edited by Ryshadium
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My personal theory is that they directly continue the sequence of dates associated with the death messages in the WoK epigraphs.

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/6398-wor-chapter-84-code/?p=104365

 

Do we have any sense of the date when the Diagram was constructed? The dates contained within might be a prediction of future utterances.

 

Have looked into that earlier today.

Someone else has made an excellent timeline of events in Words of Radiance and the dates match the highstorms recorded there.

That being said, I've also double checked them against the death rattles from WoK and there's no apparent correlation.

And finally logic would dictate that death rattle predictions are less probable that high storm predictions, which are fairly commonplace.

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Has anyone tried writing out the two lines together to see if any pattern can be found that matches the chapter 84 code pattern?  When I tried it, I got a lot of areas where you had letters grouping together like "ee" or "tt" or "hh" for example.  I would post what I did, but I don't think I got it exactly right when I laid it out, because the one sentence was longer than the other.

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In the Taravangian interlude, the chart lists the last 500 days, and based on this quote, it doesn't seem that the Diagram Day was included in that, but I could be misreading:

 

“So this is where I was most intelligent,” Taravangian said, pointing at the last point on the chart. It was far to the right, and very close to the bottom. A representation of high intelligence and a low frequency of occurrence. “This was that day, that day of perfection.” “No,” Adrotagia said. “What?” “That was the time you were the most intelligent during the last five hundred days,” Adrotagia explained. “This point represents the day you finished the most complex problems you’d left for yourself, and the day you devised new ones for use in future tests.” “I remember that day,” he said. “It
 
Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 907). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 
 
Edited to remove an extraneous word

 

We can do better than that even.  The diagram suggests "crafting a weapon" by making a Truthless, so that suggests that it predates Szeth's binding to his oathstone (and acquisition of his blade).  That means it was at least 6 yr's ago (plus whatever lead up time to making Szeth there was).  I'd probably stick it at ~10 years or maybe a bit more.  Mr. T would have had to have been in power at the time.

 

Do we know when his hospital started?  I think that would be after the diagram as well.

 

This means that the dates are being predicted very far in advance, which is interesting.

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Has anyone tried writing out the two lines together to see if any pattern can be found that matches the chapter 84 code pattern?  When I tried it, I got a lot of areas where you had letters grouping together like "ee" or "tt" or "hh" for example.  I would post what I did, but I don't think I got it exactly right when I laid it out, because the one sentence was longer than the other.

 

Check the earlier posts, if I'm reading your idea right it's been done.

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A quick search of hospital gives no immediate indication of when they were built, but it is definitely a long time. Kaladin states that Lirin was trained by a Kharbranthian surgeon (page 259 WoK, Kindle), but I don't know if that gives any substantial proof that the hospitals were built that long ago.

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We can do better than that even.  The diagram suggests "crafting a weapon" by making a Truthless, so that suggests that it predates Szeth's binding to his oathstone (and acquisition of his blade).  That means it was at least 6 yr's ago (plus whatever lead up time to making Szeth there was).  I'd probably stick it at ~10 years or maybe a bit more.  Mr. T would have had to have been in power at the time.

 

Do we know when his hospital started?  I think that would be after the diagram as well.

 

This means that the dates are being predicted very far in advance, which is interesting.

 

I'm not sure that we can date it back too far...there was a line from T that said he asked the Nightwatcher for "capacity" to save mankind after having a conversation with Gavilar on the night that the Alethi king died about needing to unite the world against the coming desolation.  Gavilar shared his visions with T that night, so I think that's the earliest we could say the diagram was created.

 

Also, I posted this earlier, but I guess it got deleted.  "Apricity" is a word that means "feeling the warmth of the sun on a cold winter's day".  So when he has a revelation that is obvious, it is "like apricity" or like the feeling of warmth of of the sun on a cold winter's day.

 

I DO wonder if the word "capacity" might be the key word though...given that it is what T asked for from the Nightwatcher, it stands to reason that it would be very important to him.

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We can do better than that even.  The diagram suggests "crafting a weapon" by making a Truthless, so that suggests that it predates Szeth's binding to his oathstone (and acquisition of his blade).  That means it was at least 6 yr's ago (plus whatever lead up time to making Szeth there was).  I'd probably stick it at ~10 years or maybe a bit more.  Mr. T would have had to have been in power at the time.

 

Do we know when his hospital started?  I think that would be after the diagram as well.

 

This means that the dates are being predicted very far in advance, which is interesting.

 

 

However, the Diagram mentions the Parshendi by name.

 

Gavilars visions prompted Mr T's visit to the Nightwatcher.

 

Gavilar's personality changed in reaction to his visions and Elhokar mentions that Dalinar are beginning to sound like his father did towards the end.

 

The hunt on which they first encountered the Parshendi was proposed by Dalinar as a reaction on Gavilar's changes.

 

I'd say that the meting of the Parshendi occurred at the most two years prior to the assassination.

 

If it's correct to assume that Mr T "created" instead of found Szeth the Diagram would have been written sometime between the founding of the Parshendi and the assassination. If we allow for the indirect travel that took Szeth across the continent and then add the time it took to decipher the Diagram and set up his fall from grace, I think we can safely say that the events had to be set in motion one year or more before Szeth's fateful appointment with Gavilar.

 

 

Conclusion: The Diagram was written sometime between year -7 and -6*.

 

* with year 0 being the day that Kaladin was enslaved.

 

 

Edit:

 

Gavilar shared his visions with T that night, so I think that's the earliest we could say the diagram was created

 

Saw this after I posted so I reread the section, and it seems that I'm way off in my estimates. =)

Edited by Djerf
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Great sleuthing!

According to the wiki, that would be around 1165-66, and the first death messages were recorded around 1167 (though the ones in the epigraphs only start in 1171). Way of Kings takes place in early to mid 1173, and many of the death messages from WoK fall within this range. The North Wall Coda dates are from late 1173, which is when I believe WoR takes place.

Edited by Harakeke
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