[OB] A new shard mentioned in Oathbringer?

[DevanFlaherty]

SPOILERS TO OATHBRINGER

 

 

So in Oathbringer near the end of the book when Dalinar creates Honor’s Perpendicularity Dalinar says:

”I am unity.”

Didn’t seem too strange, Honor kept telling him “Unite them”. Which I’m guessing we can all agree has multiple meanings. The people, the radiants, the honor blades maybe? Heralds? As well in this instance it is very literally the 3 realms. 

 

Later though... I forget who it was, I believe it was Odium... mentioned Dalinar’s ascension. So go with me here. What if Dalinar is becoming the unmentioned shard of Unity?

It sounds like it could be a shard. I mean all this is a little hard for me to grasp. What are shards and how people ascend such as small Rayse/Odium isn’t quite clear. But I do believe it is noted that there is an un-named shard. 

And if you think of how Adonalsium was shattered, which is the oppsoite of being unified, it could make sense that it has been a hiding or missing shard.

I sound crazy and probably way off but I thought it could be an interesting idea.

Edited December 22, 2017 by DevanFlaherty

[Blazenella]

So there has been quite a bit of speculation on this and Brandon has continually RAFO'ed everything involved with it. Now the word "Ascension" is the process of at least becoming a Sliver. Rashek (The Lord Ruler) "Ascended" when he touched the power in the Well (Preservation) becoming a Sliver of Preservation. I highly doubt that Dalinar is a shard as of yet because we've seen what Sazed did when he picked up Ruin/Preservation. He literally terraformed Scadrial with ease, and Dalinar is exhausted from summoning a Perpendicularity. 

Conclusion: Dalinar is a Sliver, not a Shard. 

Edited December 22, 2017 by Blazenella

[DevanFlaherty]

Oh that definitely makes more sense!

Thanks for the reply @Blazenella.

[Melovespie]

The interesting thing about Dalinar is that he seems to be a sliver holding powers from multiple shards. While the majority of investiture seems to be Honor's, it appears that he at least has some of Odium and Cultivation powers within him. We know Odium was grooming him to become his champion, and that Cultivation preened him to allow him to defy Odium. It seems likely that there was some sort of investiture contributed for both of those actions. Is anyone else thinking along those lines?

[JamesMc6]

12 hours ago, DevanFlaherty said:

”I am unity.”

If I remember correctly, the quote is "I am Unity." That capital is a big deal, I think.

3 hours ago, Melovespie said:

The interesting thing about Dalinar is that he seems to be a sliver holding powers from multiple shards. While the majority of investiture seems to be Honor's, it appears that he at least has some of Odium and Cultivation powers within him. We know Odium was grooming him to become his champion, and that Cultivation preened him to allow him to defy Odium. It seems likely that there was some sort of investiture contributed for both of those actions. Is anyone else thinking along those lines?

I'm also thinking along those lines. Thus the Sliver of Honor, which Dalinar briefly is after ascending, will unite all the Slivers of investiture on Roshar. Could this happen by Dalinar somehow bonding the Stormfather (Honor); and the Nightwatcher (Cultiviation); and the Sibling (Unknown)? Not three Bondsmiths, but one Super Bondsmith? My understanding is those three high spren are just very, very strong Cognitive Shadows, but bonding all of them would generate some serious investiture. Enough to Ascend with all of it? (Some of this might be realmatically incorrect. I'm not an expert on this yet so correct me if that's the case.)

Anyway, when all is said and done--and this is not a new theory--Honor will still be dead, but there will be a new Shard of Unity with Dalinar as its vessel.

[StormingTexan]

A shard does not change it's intent upon having a new vessel so if Unity is an intent then it is in fact a melding of shards like Harmony. When this happened I did not really see a melding of shards intents but Dalinar summoning Honor's Perpendicularity. Odium also said "We killed you" and as far as we know Cultivation is still alive so it is not a melding of Honor and Cultivation. Thus I do not think "Unity" is a new shard but I agree the capital U sure does sound important. Maybe not a new shard bit a sliver as others have suggested. I do agree Dalinar is unique in that he pretty clearly has been influenced by all three shards. 

On a side note I am feeling more and more that "Unite them"means the Heralds especially since we know the back 5 books are focused on the Heralds. It's really just a hunch but something about how we see Taln and Ash and then Jezrien die at the end. 

[Kered]

3 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

A shard does not change it's intent upon having a new vessel so if Unity is an intent then it is in fact a melding of shards like Harmony. When this happened I did not really see a melding of shards intents but Dalinar summoning Honor's Perpendicularity. Odium also said "We killed you" and as far as we know Cultivation is still alive so it is not a melding of Honor and Cultivation. Thus I do not think "Unity" is a new shard but I agree the capital U sure does sound important. Maybe not a new shard bit a sliver as others have suggested. I do agree Dalinar is unique in that he pretty clearly has been influenced by all three shards. 

On a side note I am feeling more and more that "Unite them"means the Heralds especially since we know the back 5 books are focused on the Heralds. It's really just a hunch but something about how we see Taln and Ash and then Jezrien die at the end. 

So far most of the things that largely deal with the Spiritual Realm have their first letter capitalized, and this is particularly prevalent in OB(Connection, Fortune, Unity, etc.). Also we know from Ivory that during the climax the Three Realms were coming closer together, almost being one. I think the "Unity" is Dalinar bringing the realms together and thus summoning the perpendicularity, also "uniting" with Honor's splintered power.  

[StormingTexan]

9 minutes ago, Kered said:

So far most of the things that largely deal with the Spiritual Realm have their first letter capitalized, and this is particularly prevalent in OB(Connection, Fortune, Unity, etc.). Also we know from Ivory that during the climax the Three Realms were coming closer together, almost being one. I think the "Unity" is Dalinar bringing the realms together and thus summoning the perpendicularity, also "uniting" with Honor's splintered power.  

I like this and think it is a feasible explanation to "Unity". 

[Scion of the Mists]

44 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

A shard does not change it's intent upon having a new vessel so if Unity is an intent then it is in fact a melding of shards like Harmony.

Relevant WOB:

 

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

We know <Ati chose how Ruin was interpreted, in that he was> a card-cackling maniac. Could someone so differently interpret a Shard as to change its name to be something different? Could someone pick up the Shard of Ruin and think I'm the Shard of Change?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes. To an extent. The interpretation, what you call a thing... I think it would be arguable either way in-world, regardless of what they call themselves. There are those who would say the core intent is still there and you can't shift it that far, and others would argue you can shift it far enough to change the definition to a synonym. You see evidence of someone claiming this in the books. I'm not gonna confirm or deny for you whether that is actually a thing or not.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2017 by Scion of the Mists

[StormingTexan]

@Scion of the Mists coincidentally Harmony is a synonym for Unity.

[Kered]

55 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Relevant WOB:

 

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

We know <Ati chose how Ruin was interpreted, in that he was> a card-cackling maniac. Could someone so differently interpret a Shard as to change its name to be something different? Could someone pick up the Shard of Ruin and think I'm the Shard of Change?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes. To an extent. The interpretation, what you call a thing... I think it would be arguable either way in-world, regardless of what they call themselves. There are those who would say the core intent is still there and you can't shift it that far, and others would argue you can shift it far enough to change the definition to a synonym. You see evidence of someone claiming this in the books. I'm not gonna confirm or deny for you whether that is actually a thing or not.

 

Do we know who it is that Brandon is referring to? I think think of anything off the top of my head. 

37 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

@Scion of the Mists coincidentally Harmony is a synonym for Unity.

I like where you're going with that. 

Edited December 22, 2017 by Kered

[Scion of the Mists]

25 minutes ago, Kered said:

 

1 hour ago, StormingTexan said:

@Scion of the Mists coincidentally Harmony is a synonym for Unity.

I like where you're going with that. 

I actually  have no Idea where you're going with that.  Harmony being a synonym for Unity would actually be evidence against it being a new merged shard.  Because then there would be multiple shards with the same intent, which doesn't seem likely.  

[StormingTexan]

29 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

I actually  have no Idea where you're going with that.  Harmony being a synonym for Unity would actually be evidence against it being a new merged shard.  Because then there would be multiple shards with the same intent, which doesn't seem likely.  

It was just a coincidence I thought was interesting. I am sure it doesn't mean anything. Or does it..Crackpot theory Sazed is expanding his influence throughout the Cosmere "We should all be harmoniously united, I think.". 

[Landis963]

2 hours ago, Kered said:

Do we know who it is that Brandon is referring to? I think think of anything off the top of my head. 

Probably Odium referring to himself as "Passion."  Which is technically true, I will admit, but only under a very specific frame of reference that - to put it mildly - doesn't hold up under scrutiny.  

Edited December 22, 2017 by Landis963

[Scion of the Mists]

31 minutes ago, Landis963 said:

2 hours ago, Kered said:

Do we know who it is that Brandon is referring to? I think think of anything off the top of my head. 

Probably Odium referring to himself as "Passion."  Which is technically true, I will admit, but only under a very specific frame of reference that - to put it mildly - doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

I think that Odium is lying when he describes his intent as Passion.  He's using it as a euphemism to make himself seem less evil.  

The only other thing I can think of is sort of the reverse: a shard corrupting its holder (Ati once being a "kind and generous man").  

[Chinsukolo]

I have nothing to base it on other than my gut - but I wonder if SA ends with Shard mergers instead of shattering.   I.e. Cultivation, Odium, and the splintered Honor are all absorbed and merged into Unity - with a capital U. 

Thus Rayse is defeated, but not through - what I had assumed would come previously - shattering, but through merging with less angry shard(s).

 

Edit:  Forgot to add my "hope" to this as well.

We've seen on screen Dalinar called a Son of Odium (for his Thrill addiction and Odium's guidance) and a Son of Honor (as a KR). 

With Cultivation having personally "adjusted" Dalinar in both a way to make him a better man, but also to force him to come to terms with his decision (because she can see the future better, and saw what Odium was planning for him) as a way to help him not become Odium's Champion.  I can also see him being a "Son of Cultivation" now as well.  

He is the only person (I can think of, feel free to correct) who has been touched by/seen all 3 Shards (or their Cognitive Shadow).  Sounds pretty close to the "set up" that Sazed had before grabbing Ruin and Preservation.   So Maybe Dalinar himself will become Unity at the end of SA.  =D   That'd make me pretty happy.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Chinsukolo

[JamesMc6]

5 minutes ago, Chinsukolo said:

I have nothing to base it on other than my gut - but I wonder if SA ends with Shard mergers instead of shattering.   I.e. Cultivation, Odium, and the splintered Honor are all absorbed and merged into Unity -with a capital U.  Thus Rayse is defeated, but not through - what I had assumed would come, previously - shattering, but through merging a less angry shard(s).

My gut agrees with your gut, but would this be too similar to Mistborn? Preservation + Ruin = Harmony? Cultivation + Odium + (Honor) = Unity?

[Chinsukolo]

2 minutes ago, Brightlord Brooding Eyes said:

My gut agrees with your gut, but would this be too similar to Mistborn? Preservation + Ruin = Harmony? Cultivation + Odium + (Honor) = Unity?

Too similar, yes perhaps.  I can not argue with that.  But I do greatly "prefer it" (for lack of better words) as the way to defeat the evils in the Cosmere, vs. actual destruction/shattering.  It takes on the whole, "world is not black and white"  "evil will always exist and needs to be balanced" view for dealing with the bad guys.  I think that's a nice change from much of Sci-Fi / Fantasy.

[Scion of the Mists]

7 minutes ago, Brightlord Brooding Eyes said:

14 minutes ago, Chinsukolo said:

I have nothing to base it on other than my gut - but I wonder if SA ends with Shard mergers instead of shattering.   I.e. Cultivation, Odium, and the splintered Honor are all absorbed and merged into Unity -with a capital U.  Thus Rayse is defeated, but not through - what I had assumed would come, previously - shattering, but through merging a less angry shard(s).

My gut agrees with your gut, but would this be too similar to Mistborn? Preservation + Ruin = Harmony? Cultivation + Odium + (Honor) = Unity?

It's an interesting idea, but it would take away the (current) primary antagonist in the cosmere: Odium.  What would that leave for the Cosmere finale?  

[Chinsukolo]

1 minute ago, Scion of the Mists said:

It's an interesting idea, but it would take away the (current) primary antagonist in the cosmere: Odium.  What would that leave for the Cosmere finale?  

The "Fen Life" that Yolen was dealing with in the first place.   Which I also believe to be corrupted investiture and the "Red Scar" in the Cosmere cosmos.  It's been neglected for a "long time" while all the shards were off doing their own thing.

[JamesMc6]

9 minutes ago, Chinsukolo said:

Too similar, yes perhaps.  I can not argue with that.  But I do greatly "prefer it" (for lack of better words) as the way to defeat the evils in the Cosmere, vs. actual destruction/shattering.  It takes on the whole, "world is not black and white"  "evil will always exist and needs to be balanced" view for dealing with the bad guys.  I think that's a nice change from much of Sci-Fi / Fantasy.

 

5 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

It's an interesting idea, but it would take away the (current) primary antagonist in the cosmere: Odium.  What would that leave for the Cosmere finale?

Well we are only at book 3 of 10. It's hard to guess the end game. Let's call this a working theory.

[CosmereQuestioner]

What if Dalinar, with his Connection to all 3 shards was able to somehow take some power from each of them (as much as Honor can give at this point, and whatever Cultivation and Odium have that's accessible to him) and made a new shard from that.  So none of the 3 were destroyed or taken over, but all were diminished, and this new Unity shard as the combination of power from those 3 united.

Edit: not that I've jumped on the "Unity is a new shard for sure" bandwagon, but just a speculative possibility.

Edited December 22, 2017 by CosmereQuestioner

[Kered]

2 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

It's an interesting idea, but it would take away the (current) primary antagonist in the cosmere: Odium.  What would that leave for the Cosmere finale?  

There's going to be some 36 Cosmere novels. We still have 7 SA books left, the Dragonsteel Series(though it's a prequel), and the final Mistborn trilogy. I don't think Odium will be the "final" villain for the cosmere. 

Of the 16 Shards, these are the ones we know of or have hints about:

• Devotion- Splintered by Odium, it's residual power part of the Dor. 
• Dominion- Splintered by Odium, it's residual power also part of the Dor. 
• Preservation- Now half of Harmony.
• Ruin- The other half of Harmony.
• Odium- Trapped in the Roshar system.
• Cultivation- Still active on Roshar the planet. 
• Honor- Splintered by Odium, left over power and Dalinar doing weird things. 
• Endowment- Still active Nalthis. 
• Autonomy- Active on Taldain and most likely other planets. 
• Ambition- Splintered by Odium, left over power doing some weird stuff according to some WoB's. 
• A shard that just wishes to survive 
• A  shard that does not inhabit a planet, it could be the "survival" shard. 

If we count the "survival" shard as the one not inhabiting a planet, then that is 11 known shards. Not going to count the Patji shard recently mentioned as it most likely an avatar of Autonomy. That leaves 5 shards. I don't think it's a stretch to think that Odium isn't the only "evil" shard of 16. It could be a reasonably safe bet to assume that maybe one of the remaining 5, or a combination of them, will be the future villain in the cosmere. 

 

I could just be off my rocker, though. 

[Melovespie]

On 12/22/2017 at 4:15 PM, Scion of the Mists said:

It's an interesting idea, but it would take away the (current) primary antagonist in the cosmere: Odium.  What would that leave for the Cosmere finale?  

I am fairly certain that Odium will be dealt with within the SA. With Odium being identified as the main villain how could you end the series without the resolution of said villain? Brandon isn't the kind if author that would finish a series with a "now read this other series to find out what happens!" 

I think there is even a decent chance that Odium is the antagonist for the first 5 and something different moves in for the back 5, although that may be hard to do (if anyone could do it, Brandon could).

[Everstorm Entropy]

The context of "Unite Them" seems to change with every book, leading to deeper and deeper meanings.  At first, we were led to believe that Dalinar was supposed to unite the High Princes to create a united Alethkar.  Then in WoR, it was concluded he was meant to unite the Knights Radiant so they could stand against the Desolation.  In OB, we see several instances: he's actively uniting the Monarchs (i.e. uniting the kingdoms of Roshar against Odium) and by the end, Dalinar is literally uniting the three realms and creating a perpendicularity.

As a Bondsmith, Dalinar's role will continually be to form bonds, and I have a feeling that he'll still be hearing "Unite Them", even after all he's done.

Why?  Because I think the end-game to Dalinar's arch is uniting Odium, Cultivation, and the splinters of Honor to become a new Shard, similar to how Sazed united Ruin and Preservation to become Harmony.  Dalinar's role on the highest level is to help reform Adonalsium.