theory [OB] Adolin and Shallan will not last

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Llayne said:

I agree that you won't develop unless you get out of your comfort zone and face challenge or your fears, but I think what Shallan is looking for right now is to heal and recover. To figure out who and what she is. I think she kept rushing toward danger as a means to distract herself. (though I may be mis-remembering that dialogue between her and Jasnah near the end)

Either way, to heal and self reflect I imagine she would want a safe place, and could be one of the reasons she chose Adolin. Whether that's what she wants and/or needs long term will likely be covered in the next few books, which is why I don't think we'll be done with the triangle any time soon.

First of all, I absolutely respect your opinion on the matter, but I think we have to establish, that what Shallan suffers from is a mental disorder, which is enabled or exacerbated by her magic.

The thing with mental disorders... They don't solve themselves. They also don't get solved by a magic pill, but rather through a long and ardous process called therapy, which demands a lot from the patient and exacts a lot of strain on them. While stationary therapy is coupled with staying at an institution to get the patient out of the confines of everyday life (basically a safe space - a place without fear), this alone doesn't solve the problem.

I think, that this is also shown in the book by the simple fact, that what helps Shallan recover in one of the worst moments in the entire series - when Grund dies in Kholinar - is not "this place without fear", but rather talking, confronting. With Wit. That was one of these rare moments, where she dropped all pretenses and was just her, which is also such a different person from the Shallan she's usually showing the world. Including Adolin. But that is only tangential.

My point is, that a place without fear is a vital part of getting better, but it is not the sole part of what actually brings health and recovery. In fact, I believe, that that alone is actually harmful, because it gives ample opportunity to avoid, lulling her into a false sense of security. And given her past inclinations towards avoidance, I fear, that she is doing exactly that again.

Edited February 18, 2019 by SLNC

[Llayne]

A fair enough point, but I'm not talking about what she needs in the large scale or long term, I'm trying to identify what she wanted in that point in time when she made the decision.

Having just gone from point of stress to point of stress, I doubt what she wanted was more stress. I think she want a break. A chance to collect herself in safety.

Yes, ultimately she'll need to face her issues, but having a place to fall back to is important as well.

As I think was mentioned previously in this thread, I also believe that Adolin's acceptance of her personalities might end up being a barrier to getting better. Sure, he refuses to 'be intimate' (?) with Veil, but if his attitude helps her normalize the situation she might not have the drive to do the work and 'get healthy.'

I'm curious to see how their relationship develops in the next book... there are so many variables we dont know.

 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Llayne said:

A fair enough point, but I'm not talking about what she needs in the large scale or long term, I'm trying to identify what she wanted in that point in time when she made the decision.

Having just gone from point of stress to point of stress, I doubt what she wanted was more stress. I think she want a break. A chance to collect herself in safety.

Yes, ultimately she'll need to face her issues, but having a place to fall back to is important as well.

Fair enough, I'm just pleading for caution, because to be frank I don't trust Shallan with such a "tool".

14 minutes ago, Llayne said:

As I think was mentioned previously in this thread, I also believe that Adolin's acceptance of her personalities might end up being a barrier to getting better. Sure, he refuses to 'be intimate' (?) with Veil, but if his attitude helps her normalize the situation she might not have the drive to do the work and 'get healthy.'

This is also something I thought about in the past. Her getting too complacent with the situation.

[Sedside]

9 hours ago, Calderis said:

@Sedside no, I'm not trying to ignore it, but weak and strong in this regard is purely opinion and I have no desire to a say you aren't entitled to have your opinion no matter how much I disagree with it.

So, I provide you with 7 quotes and my analysis of them, with logical reasonings and so on, and you just say "I disagree with you" and that's it? Well, I agree with @Alderant, this is indeed very frustrating. Good luck with your theories, the book will arbitrate us.

8 hours ago, Alderant said:

Where I disagree with is this being a sign of Adolin's love for Shallan is the language that he uses. The language he uses in the scene in question treats her like property, rather than a profession of desire for her happiness.

I totally agree with this. I would also like to add, that in my opinion, the language he uses in this whole dialogue does not seem to me as words, said by a genuinely infatuated man, who was about to make a hard decision and let go of his beloved woman to make her happy. And then, when she refuses to go, he doesn't seem happy and relieved. He continues his weak objections, like "that's worrisome", "world is full of Heralds" and so on, like he still tries to "get rid of this girl", he is just not sure and lets her convince him. And in the end he generously and somewhat lazily allows her to kiss him again. Is it how Sanderson thinks infatuated men behave?

6 hours ago, Llayne said:

visceral passion she (or Veil, but that's an entirely different topic) seemed to feel about Kaladin.

Thank you for reading my post and trying to provide arguments in turn of mine, I really appreciate that. Though, I can't agree with this statement. I really don't understand, why people keep saying, that what she feels to Kaladin is "visceral passion" and "sexual attraction", whereas it is something different to Adolin. Adolin is the guy she admires for his appearance - hair, smile, voice, arms and so on. She repeatedly says in the text, that she wants to kiss him (application for tongue), defitely wants to mate with him, rip his shirt off and so on. Whereas in Kaladin she admires his personality - determination, resolve, contained passion, leashed anger and so on. There are, I guess, only two places in the text, when she notices something about his appearance - "there was something about his curly hair" (or something like that, can't provide a quote now, it was on Radiant council in OB, prior to the sketch), and "storms, he looked good with beard", after which she immediately thinks, that this beard strikes his overall image of contained passion (like a wild spren of passion, trapped within oaths and codes). To me, those are descriptions of a very deep personal love. The ability to contain passion is not about sex, it's about having the fire inside you, but controlling it with the power of your will, which is extremely magnetic trait in people. It is not about "I want to have sex with this guy". This is "I admire this guy's personal traits".

6 hours ago, Llayne said:

I agree that you won't develop unless you get out of your comfort zone and face challenge or your fears, but I think what Shallan is looking for right now is to heal and recover. To figure out who and what she is. I think she kept rushing toward danger as a means to distract herself. (though I may be mis-remembering that dialogue between her and Jasnah near the end)

Either way, to heal and self reflect I imagine she would want a safe place, and could be one of the reasons she chose Adolin. Whether that's what she wants and/or needs long term will likely be covered in the next few books, which is why I don't think we'll be done with the triangle any time soon.

To understand who she is she first of all needs to confront it, but she doesn't confront, she runs from it. She says "they were not her, she was occasionally them" about Veil and Radiant. She pretty much already decided, that she is not Veil and Radiant. Also, if you need a safe place to recover and reflect, why marry? Marriage is something that is considered irreversible. In case she only needed a temporary shelter to recover, she could have just continued the courtship, use Adolin as a comfort provider, become whole and then make a decision, after also storming talking to Kaladin once. But she doesn't even talk to him. She runs. As well as from Jasnah and painful memories.

To learn something you must do it. To learn who she is she must explore herself, and she wants to cement who she thinks she is, thats why she is desperate to cling to anything, that can keep her in maskShallan.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Sedside

[Llayne]

18 minutes ago, Sedside said:

Though, I can't agree with this statement. I really don't understand, why people keep saying, that what she feels to Kaladin is "visceral passion" and "sexual attraction", whereas it is something different to Adolin.

Interesting comment. I suppose it's the characterization of her 'leering' at Kaladin that colors most of my opinion. Also her comment at the end that "Veil did have a tendency to fawn over Kaladin." I just finished OB (again) recently, so both of those are fairly fresh in my mind.

You're right though, there are plenty of scenes where she's thinking about how good Adolin looks. Maybe it's because we're in her POV and she's verbalizing/thinking her thoughts about Adolin that makes me think of them as more abstract and less passionate?

I'd have to do some research to form a better opinion.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Llayne said:

I suppose it's the characterization of her 'leering' at Kaladin that colors most of my opinion. Also her comment at the end that "Veil did have a tendency to fawn over Kaladin."

Just to play Devil's advocate: this comment was directed at Adolin, who she obviously wouldn't tell anything about possible profound feelings about Kaladin.

Then there also is the tangible possibility, that she pushed the unwanted feelings about Kaladin to the Veil persona, because at some point they miraculously disappear and then emerge as part of Veil, while before in WoR they were definitely felt by Shallan.

Edited February 19, 2019 by SLNC

[Sedside]

12 minutes ago, Llayne said:

I suppose it's the characterization of her 'leering' at Kaladin that colors most of my opinion.

Yeah, it was Adolin's wording, from his PoV. Maybe it's the part of his vocabulary, as he also tells Kaladin in WoR to "stop leering at her backside" on the training grounds. I'm not sure, that was what Kaladin was really doing

9 minutes ago, SLNC said:

Then there also is the tangible possibility, that she pushed the unwanted feelings about Kaladin to the Veil persona, because at some point they miraculously disappear and then emerge as part of Veil, while before on WoR they were definitely felt by Shallan.

Indeed. The other thing, that also miraculously disappeared at almost the same time (somewhat after Radiant council and being chastised by Jasnah for sketching Kaladin) is the whole Helaran issue. She just says "don't think about it" and that's all, gone. I hope it still has to be addressed in the future, as otherwise it is also something that seems absolutely unnecessary.

[ShardShaper]

Ok, so here is my theory for the "Who does Shallan storming like" debate. To me it seems like shallan is doing something to her spiritweb when she creates personas. My theory is that she will end up fracturing her spirit web, and split into three distinct physical entities. Radiant and Veil will actually just be condensed investure, but Shallan will have no control over them. So, while Shallan is happily married with Adolin, Veil will start hitting on Kaladin. Quite frankly, I feel like as soon as this happens, Radiant will immediately run off, form her own Nahel bond (possibly as a dustbringer) and kill odium. This is just my two clips, but I stand by the spiritweb fracture theory.

Edited May 27, 2019 by ShardShaper

[Karger]

On 5/25/2019 at 7:40 PM, ShardShaper said:

Ok, so here is my theory for the "Who does Shallan storming like" debate. To me it seems like shallan is doing something to her spiritweb when she creates personas. My theory is that she will end up fracturing her spirit web, and split into three distinct physical entities. Radiant and Veil will actually just be condensed investure, but Shallan will have no control over them. So, while Shallan is happily married with Adolin, Veil will start hitting on Kaladin. Quite frankly, I feel like as soon as this happens, Radiant will immediately run off, form her own Nahel bond (possibly as a dustbringer) and kill odium. This is just my two clips, but I stand by the spiritweb fracture theory.

Hahahahaha.  Upvoted

For real though pushing fealings she does not think the should have into other personas is Shallan's go to coping mechanism.  I personaly do not see anything wrong with Shallan feeling attraction for another individual while in a relationship with Adolin provided that nothing else happens.  Desireing other people is normal and while I agree that the attraction is emotional not just physical an actual relationship takes investment and commitment.  I for one do not think Shallan is going to put in either investment or commitment into the kind of relationship she views as wrong.  I think she will end up admitting that she has those feelings and then moving past them would probably be the best thing for her to do as a Lightweaver and as a wife.

[Use the Falchion]

The only way I can see Adolin and Shallan not working out is if Shallan becomes a world-hopping Ghostblood member (although weirdly enough I see that more as Jasnah's role post-SA...assuming she lives) and decides to stay on another world and/or Silverlight while Adolin stays on Roshar to be the Kholin highprince. 

[Karger]

On 5/28/2019 at 9:12 AM, Use the Falchion said:

The only way I can see Adolin and Shallan not working out is if Shallan becomes a world-hopping Ghostblood member (although weirdly enough I see that more as Jasnah's role post-SA...assuming she lives) and decides to stay on another world and/or Silverlight while Adolin stays on Roshar to be the Kholin highprince. 

Then who runs the country?

[Use the Falchion]

43 minutes ago, Karger said:

Then who runs the country?

If Jasnah abdicates? Kaladin maybe? Someone who's been around the entire series but has been darkeyes would be ideal. Maybe Alethkar as a country won't exist by the end of the books, so there's no need for Jasnah to rule. 

[Pathfinder]

10 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

If Jasnah abdicates? Kaladin maybe? Someone who's been around the entire series but has been darkeyes would be ideal. Maybe Alethkar as a country won't exist by the end of the books, so there's no need for Jasnah to rule. 

I see jasnah stepping back once elhokars baby becomes old enough to rule. That will probably be by the end of the stormlight series. Then she can go explore the cosmere. Sanderson said jasnah is not cosmere aware yet, but she can catch up fast

[Use the Falchion]

57 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

I see jasnah stepping back once elhokars baby becomes old enough to rule. That will probably be by the end of the stormlight series. Then she can go explore the cosmere. Sanderson said jasnah is not cosmere aware yet, but she can catch up fast

Oh yeah I forgot about Gavinor! You're right about that. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by Use the Falchion

[Karger]

5 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

I see jasnah stepping back once elhokars baby becomes old enough to rule. That will probably be by the end of the stormlight series. Then she can go explore the cosmere. Sanderson said jasnah is not cosmere aware yet, but she can catch up fast

Winces.  Not to be a grammar Nazi(hate the term) but I would appreciate it if you capitalized the names.  They look realy silly to me at the moment.

[Pathfinder]

On 5/30/2019 at 9:05 AM, Use the Falchion said:

Oh yeah I forgot about Gavinor! You're right about that. 

Yep, yep. Jasnah is queen fully, not just a regent, but she also respected Elhokar's rulership so I do not see her trying to usurp it from Gavinor. Jasnah went so far as leaving the kingdom to give Elhokar one less shadow (Galivar) to live under. Had her research required her to stay, she would have, but she wanted to give Elhokar the space he needed to rule. So considering the time gap, I think by the end of stormlight, Gavinor will be in the start of his 20s and if trained well, I could see him taking over. Then Jasnah can travel the cosmere, run into Khriss, and geek out. 

[Karger]

1 hour ago, Pathfinder said:

Then Jasnah can travel the cosmere, run into Khriss, and geek out. 

Nooooo.  If Jasnah meets Khriss then I will have to choose between them!

[Harbour]

Recently found out about some bulgarian covers for RoW featuring Adolin and Shallan together in Shadesmar, and that they are potentially may be separated POV from other main cast.

There are some doubts about that, but imo this is gonna be the real deal. Shallan and Adolin together on a trip, year after the marriage. Shallan, with her fractured personality. Adolin, seeing that. Together for a trip. Thats gonna be interesting to watch. 

Now, their trip is the tool that can be used in two different ways: either be the catalyst of their break up, or be the cure for their relationships.

Both ways require certain set up. Now, its pure speculation time.

I dont believe in perfect marriage for the whole year given the set up made in the end of the OB. The amount of nuances is catastrophic. 

How successful do you think Shallan will keep her promises to Adolin about her other personalities leaking? I imagine it being pretty tiresome for her to do this every time Adolin is near, for the whole year. Like, imagine the level of guilt she can have. She basically forced Adolin into marriage, promising him to be just Shallan, but she clearly had problems with personalities shifting. And Adolin would realistically have a doubt in her every time she fails to do this, while also keeping in min Kaladin stuff. 

I imagine two ways everything may go:

1) Shallan keeps her personalities in check everytime Adolin is near. She is kinda fed up with it. Every day she have to put on a mask for him. Finally, something happened before the trip and she and Adolin scream at each other or stop talking. Typical family crisis. Then Shadesmar Trip comes in and during it they manage to either fix their relationships and learn more about each other, or to make sure their relationships wont work out.

2) Shallan can hardly keep her per personalities in check, so she tries to spend as much time far from Adolin as possible. it creates some issues within Adolin for obvious reasons. Then Shadesmar Trip comes in and Shallan can no longer avoid Adolin. The issue becomes obvious the more time they spend together. Tension grows. Finally they go on angry rant. Then they either manage to fix their problems or decide to move on.

Either way, i believe Shadesmar Trip was obvious and pretty predictable concept Brandon had to introduce to show the problems of Adolin and Shallan marriage.

It can easily be used to both break them up or fix their relationships, and by the end of the RoW they will either be divorced or become even better couple.

[agrabes]

7 hours ago, Harbour said:

Recently found out about some bulgarian covers for RoW featuring Adolin and Shallan together in Shadesmar, and that they are potentially may be separated POV from other main cast.

There are some doubts about that, but imo this is gonna be the real deal. Shallan and Adolin together on a trip, year after the marriage. Shallan, with her fractured personality. Adolin, seeing that. Together for a trip. Thats gonna be interesting to watch. 

Now, their trip is the tool that can be used in two different ways: either be the catalyst of their break up, or be the cure for their relationships.

Both ways require certain set up. Now, its pure speculation time.

I dont believe in perfect marriage for the whole year given the set up made in the end of the OB. The amount of nuances is catastrophic. 

How successful do you think Shallan will keep her promises to Adolin about her other personalities leaking? I imagine it being pretty tiresome for her to do this every time Adolin is near, for the whole year. Like, imagine the level of guilt she can have. She basically forced Adolin into marriage, promising him to be just Shallan, but she clearly had problems with personalities shifting. And Adolin would realistically have a doubt in her every time she fails to do this, while also keeping in min Kaladin stuff. 

I imagine two ways everything may go:

1) Shallan keeps her personalities in check everytime Adolin is near. She is kinda fed up with it. Every day she have to put on a mask for him. Finally, something happened before the trip and she and Adolin scream at each other or stop talking. Typical family crisis. Then Shadesmar Trip comes in and during it they manage to either fix their relationships and learn more about each other, or to make sure their relationships wont work out.

2) Shallan can hardly keep her per personalities in check, so she tries to spend as much time far from Adolin as possible. it creates some issues within Adolin for obvious reasons. Then Shadesmar Trip comes in and Shallan can no longer avoid Adolin. The issue becomes obvious the more time they spend together. Tension grows. Finally they go on angry rant. Then they either manage to fix their problems or decide to move on.

Either way, i believe Shadesmar Trip was obvious and pretty predictable concept Brandon had to introduce to show the problems of Adolin and Shallan marriage.

It can easily be used to both break them up or fix their relationships, and by the end of the RoW they will either be divorced or become even better couple.

I don't know if it would go all the way to a divorce, but I do think that RoW will show us that the Honeymoon is over for Shallan and Adolin.  I think your #2 scenario is the more likely one.  Just based on Sanderson's writing style I don't see him writing a family crisis with extreme marital strife like your #1 scenario.  It doesn't really fit with the tone he uses.  I can definitely see him writing marital tension, but not a marriage where one or both parties completely get fed up with the other.

Over the last 3 years a lot of good discussion has taken place in this thread.  I've shared my own thoughts about whether or not Shallan and Adolin will actually spend a lot of RoW together in other threads, but for the sake of this discussion let's assume they do.  If it does happen, I think it could be a good opportunity for Sanderson to finally dive into the Shallan/Adolin relationship in a more meaningful way.  If you ask me, here's how it stands:

 

Leading up to this the arranged marriage, Adolin and Shallan were both motivated to make it work for non-romantic reasons.  Adolin had tried and failed multiple times at courting women and it was getting to the point that a lot of the eligible women of the Alethi court were not totally interested in getting with him.  It seemed like he'd dated just about everybody and was more interested in dueling, fashion, etc than his relationship.  He knew he needed to get married - it was a duty for him.  Shallan needed to get financial security for her family.  She knew she'd be placed in an arranged marriage for her family's political benefit from a young age.  When the option of marrying Adolin came up, it was the best possible scenario for her.  A marriage to one of the most powerful and wealthy families in Roshar.  She has a vested interest in making it work.  Once they finally meet, they realize they have a reasonable amount of compatibility with each other too, so they're happy that it will probably work out.  Neither seems to be passionately in love with the other, but both are interested in making the relationship work.

OB rolls around and Adolin recognizes that Shallan may be more interested in Kaladin.  This leads to insecurity on his part.  He's a nice guy and genuinely cares about her and is insecure about himself, his relationship with her, and his value as a non-radiant, so he offers to step aside.  [Aside: Some people earlier in the thread felt this is unrealistic or a sign that he doesn't care, this is actually the part of Adolin's romance arc that feels the most sincere and relatable to me.  In my younger days, I had a lot of insecurity about myself and my own desirability as a romantic partner so I can personally relate to this kind of feeling.]  I think that Adolin even offers this is a sign that while he does care about Shallan, he views their relationship as mostly a political arrangement, not close or deep - he sincerely believes she does not want to be with him.  It's a sign of a weak relationship - he simply isn't yet sure that Shallan is committed to him emotionally.  This makes sense due to the unusual way their relationship starts - they're just told they will be together one day without the normal process of figuring out how they actually feel about each other.  After the crisis moment at the end of OB is when their relationship begins to develop as a real, intentional relationship, rather than a political one that was thrust on them without their choice.  They finally tell each other they want to be with each other.  This is when they first confirm to each other they are changing course from "Let's make this political marriage work as best we can" to "Let's see if we can build a real romantic love and marriage between us."

Now, post OB is when things develop as a real relationship.  And I think there will be tension.  Adolin has struggled with accepting that Shallan is better than him at many things.  Shallan thinks Adolin is dumb.  Adolin may or may not be partially enabling Shallan's multiple identities.  Shallan is still struggling with the identities and this is even hinted as causing minor friction in late OB (Shallan's minor frustration that Adolin won't be intimate with the Veil persona).  Adolin is unambitious, while Shallan is very ambitious.  

In RoW, I predict there will be tension shown on screen.  I do think it will come from the identities thing.  I think Adolin will basically try to keep handling things the same way as he does initially.  I think this will lead to serious frustration on both ends.  Adolin will be frustrated that Shallan isn't improving - she'll still spend time as Veil and Radiant, who Adolin doesn't want to be married to.  Shallan will be frustrated either that Adolin won't accept those parts of her, or that he hasn't actively helped her improve and move on and has just accepted the status quo.  Also - as long as the Veil persona exists, I think she is still going to remain attracted to Kaladin even though Kaladin himself has moved on.  This might lead to some interesting confrontations.  As of the end of OB, Kaladin still doesn't know about the split personality issue, so this could be very confusing for him.  Shallan as Veil may come on to Kaladin at some point, leading to confusion from Kaladin and frustration/hurt from Adolin.  Or, Adolin may develop a close enough friendship to Kaladin and feel secure enough in his relationship with Shallan that he confides in Kaladin about these issues.  Wouldn't it be interesting if Kaladin (now moved on) confronts Shallan and tells her she needs to put those feelings to rest for Adolin's sake?  I think ultimately, it will not lead to Shallan and Adolin splitting up.  It might lead to them giving up on having a "romantic" relationship and going back toward a friendly political marriage.  Most likely though, I think the trials will probably strengthen their relationship.

[Karger]

9 hours ago, Harbour said:

Recently found out about some bulgarian covers for RoW featuring Adolin and Shallan together in Shadesmar, and that they are potentially may be separated POV from other main cast.

There are some doubts about that, but imo this is gonna be the real deal. Shallan and Adolin together on a trip, year after the marriage. Shallan, with her fractured personality. Adolin, seeing that. Together for a trip. Thats gonna be interesting to watch. 

Now, their trip is the tool that can be used in two different ways: either be the catalyst of their break up, or be the cure for their relationships.

Both ways require certain set up. Now, its pure speculation time.

I dont believe in perfect marriage for the whole year given the set up made in the end of the OB. The amount of nuances is catastrophic. 

How successful do you think Shallan will keep her promises to Adolin about her other personalities leaking? I imagine it being pretty tiresome for her to do this every time Adolin is near, for the whole year. Like, imagine the level of guilt she can have. She basically forced Adolin into marriage, promising him to be just Shallan, but she clearly had problems with personalities shifting. And Adolin would realistically have a doubt in her every time she fails to do this, while also keeping in min Kaladin stuff. 

I imagine two ways everything may go:

1) Shallan keeps her personalities in check everytime Adolin is near. She is kinda fed up with it. Every day she have to put on a mask for him. Finally, something happened before the trip and she and Adolin scream at each other or stop talking. Typical family crisis. Then Shadesmar Trip comes in and during it they manage to either fix their relationships and learn more about each other, or to make sure their relationships wont work out.

2) Shallan can hardly keep her per personalities in check, so she tries to spend as much time far from Adolin as possible. it creates some issues within Adolin for obvious reasons. Then Shadesmar Trip comes in and Shallan can no longer avoid Adolin. The issue becomes obvious the more time they spend together. Tension grows. Finally they go on angry rant. Then they either manage to fix their problems or decide to move on.

Either way, i believe Shadesmar Trip was obvious and pretty predictable concept Brandon had to introduce to show the problems of Adolin and Shallan marriage.

It can easily be used to both break them up or fix their relationships, and by the end of the RoW they will either be divorced or become even better couple.

I have some issues with your theorizing.  I admit I am biased but I still would like to bring up a couple points.  Firstly we saw Veil and Radiant disappear at the end of OB as Shallan admits to herself that it is OK for her to be happy(I personally see this as a truth).  She is getting better.  Secondly Adolin never asked Shallan to suppress her alter egos nor did Shallan promise never to use them.  OB also states that he treats Veil like a drinking buddy but wont be intimate with her so even if Shallan still keeps using her alter egos Adolin knows how to deal with them and wait for his wife to come back.  Thirdly I don't believe in perfect marriages.  I marriage is a relationship it requires work and upkeep.  It is not going to get to a perfect place and just stay there.  Shallan and Adolin are going to have to find a way to make sure it stays a healthy one that they both can rely on.  As such I am personally nixing either of your scenarios(at least until I read RoW).  I do think that the trip will force them to do a lot of work on their relationship(hopefully with Pattern acting as their couples councilor because that would be awesome) with both of them figuring out the limits of their relationship, what they want to require from each other, how honest Shallan has to be with Adolin, and what that honesty actually consists of.

16 minutes ago, agrabes said:

Neither seems to be passionately in love with the other, but both are interested in making the relationship work.

My inner Jasnah dictates I state that passionate love is overrated.  In all seriousness I actually kind of agree with her.  My favorite relationships both in fiction and in the real world are between people who seem to enjoy themselves without all of the extreme emotions that seem to go with your typical male and female star crossed lovers.

19 minutes ago, agrabes said:

I think that Adolin even offers this is a sign that while he does care about Shallan, he views their relationship as mostly a political arrangement, not close or deep - he sincerely believes she does not want to be with him.  It's a sign of a weak relationship - he simply isn't yet sure that Shallan is committed to him emotionally

I personally saw it as a sign of emotional maturity.  He knows better then to try and force things with someone who is not interested so he gives her the freedom to make her own choices without fear of embarrassment or political fallout.

21 minutes ago, agrabes said:

Adolin has struggled with accepting that Shallan is better than him at many things

Does he?  I think that is just the general inadequacy he feels in this new world. 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Karger

[agrabes]

37 minutes ago, Karger said:

My inner Jasnah dictates I state that passionate love is overrated.  In all seriousness I actually kind of agree with her.  My favorite relationships both in fiction and in the real world are between people who seem to enjoy themselves without all of the extreme emotions that seem to go with your typical male and female star crossed lovers.

I personally saw it as a sign of emotional maturity.  He knows better then to try and force things with someone who is not interested so he gives her the freedom to make her own choices without fear of embarrassment or political fallout.

Does he?  I think that is just the general inadequacy he feels in this new world. 

I agree with both your first two statements to a certain extent.  I agree that passionate love can be overrated and/or isn't required for everybody, but I guess my main point is that at least from my reading Adolin and Shallan never expressed a strong desire (passionate or otherwise) to stay together until the end of Oathbringer.  Up until that point, it was just "hey we're together, it wasn't our choice but it's not bad either so let's make the best of it".  In that moment at the end of OB, Adolin said that it didn't have to be like that if Shallan didn't want it to.  And for the first time, they committed to each other that they wanted to be together by choice, not just by circumstance.  I think that's when their relationship became real.  

I think Adolin's insecurities about his relationship are both a sign of emotional maturity and a sign of a weak relationship.  He's mature enough to acknowledge the problem and try to address it rather than let it fester, but that necessarily means that it was a problem.  The weakness of the relationship was they'd never had that "Define The Relationship" moment.  Was it a political marriage, with the understanding that they were primarily business partners with a bit of sexual chemistry who could seek their personal/emotional needs from others?  Did Shallan feel happy with Adolin as a person, or was she just happy with that status she would gain from marrying him?  Those are legitimate and important questions they had not discussed up to that point.

In terms of Adolin's struggle with his capabilities relative to Shallan, I called it a struggle because I think it's something he's working on.  In WoR before he knows she is a Radiant, there are scenes that show that Adolin thinks Shallan is someone who needs to be protected and that she can't handle herself on her own, etc.  Even prior to Shallan being a Radiant, Adolin was mostly wrong to think this and it's something that frustrates Shallan.  Then, he learns she is as Radiant, has a shard blade, etc.  And he tries to do the right thing, but it's hard for him.  I think Shallan's huge increase in relative power and influence is a major factor in Adolin's general inadequacy.  When they first meet, Adolin has all the power in their relationship.  He's the one who is wealthy and from a powerful family, he is one of the strongest fighters in the world.  Shallan has to rely on him for just about everything - if their relationship goes south she is penniless and far from home with no friends anywhere around.  By the end of WoR, she has political power and wealth in her own right as a Radiant, she has combat capabilities nearly as strong as his if not stronger, and she doesn't have to rely on him for anything.  If anything, he now has to rely on her.  Adolin's not being a jerk about this, he's doing a pretty decent job of handling it all things considered.  But it's still a serious stress point in their relationship - she grows more powerful and important as he becomes less powerful and less important.  He doesn't always handle it perfectly and has caused Shallan frustration in the past over this issue.  I think there's a reasonable chance it will be a sticking point for them again.

[Karger]

46 minutes ago, agrabes said:

Up until that point, it was just "hey we're together, it wasn't our choice but it's not bad either so let's make the best of it".  In that moment at the end of OB, Adolin said that it didn't have to be like that if Shallan didn't want it to.  And for the first time, they committed to each other that they wanted to be together by choice, not just by circumstance.  I think that's when their relationship became real.  

I agree.  They went on a few dates(highstorms, ancient mythical cities, world capitals under siege from demonic forces, previously unexplored magical dimensions, the usual) and now the have decided that they like each other and are committed to making it work.  They still have to figure out some stuff but they have plenty of time for that and the fact that they still have growing to do is not a sign of weakness it is a sign that they have work ahead.

50 minutes ago, agrabes said:

I think Adolin's insecurities about his relationship are both a sign of emotional maturity and a sign of a weak relationship. 

52 minutes ago, agrabes said:

I think Shallan's huge increase in relative power and influence is a major factor in Adolin's general inadequacy.

This one is a bit tougher.  I agree that Adolin's insecurities(like Shallan's) could pose a problem for them in the future.  He has had trouble with relationships in the past and that gives him issues with his emotional confidence(especially in regards to romance).  Shallan being so dependent may have helped Adolin with the confidence he needed to actually get to know her.  However I also think he is actually committed to dealing with them and I don't think they are just from Shallan.  The majority seem to be from his father and the problems of their relationship. 

[agrabes]

58 minutes ago, Karger said:

I agree.  They went on a few dates(highstorms, ancient mythical cities, world capitals under siege from demonic forces, previously unexplored magical dimensions, the usual) and now the have decided that they like each other and are committed to making it work.  They still have to figure out some stuff but they have plenty of time for that and the fact that they still have growing to do is not a sign of weakness it is a sign that they have work ahead.

This one is a bit tougher.  I agree that Adolin's insecurities(like Shallan's) could pose a problem for them in the future.  He has had trouble with relationships in the past and that gives him issues with his emotional confidence(especially in regards to romance).  Shallan being so dependent may have helped Adolin with the confidence he needed to actually get to know her.  However I also think he is actually committed to dealing with them and I don't think they are just from Shallan.  The majority seem to be from his father and the problems of their relationship. 

I think the biggest danger sign in their relationship, as I see it, is that Shallan is still papering over things and has not really merged herself into one complete person yet.  So, Adolin has chosen to marry the "Shallan" persona that he has known since they met in WoR, but what he doesn't realize is that the "Shallan" persona does not contain all of who Shallan is.  She hasn't been completely honest with him - he currently thinks that "Shallan" is completely real, while Veil and Radiant are completely fake personalities that sometimes take over.  We know this isn't true - we know that she uses the personas as a place to store unwanted feelings and character traits.  The "Shallan" that Adolin knows is only about 70-80% of the real Shallan.  For example - she's pushed her more aggressive and sneaky personality traits over to Veil along with her unwanted feelings for Kaladin and she's pushed the more formal and martial portions of her personality into Radiant.  At some point, we have to expect that Shallan will re-integrate herself and will no longer spin out painful memories and "undesirable" aspects of herself into these separate personas.  Her whole arc is about facing up to her own inner demons, so we have to expect she either challenges this stuff head on and fully resolves it or goes down a dark path (unlikely).

Once Shallan re-integrates herself, she will have a different personality, containing the parts of her that she intentionally hid from Adolin because she felt he would not like them.  That doesn't mean she was right to believe he wouldn't like them, but you have to imagine that will lead to at least some marital strife.  I don't think it will lead to a divorce, but I think it will lead to serious consequences that will have plot relevance.  I feel like Sanderson has been foreshadowing this for a while - Shallan and Adolin's conversations have always felt very surface level and superficial, aside from the one time at the end of OB.  I believe that understanding her true mental state has been strongly foreshadowed as a key future plot element.  The full truth of what Shallan is doing will come out at some point.  It's a ticking time bomb and I think Sanderson's been clear in interviews/Q&A sessions that Shallan's issues are not close to resolved yet.  She's only taken the first step in the right direction.  More trouble will come.  If Adolin feels she's been hiding her true self from him since day one all the way up until sometime after OB, I could see him losing a lot of trust in her.  

Adolin's generally been a good person and like you said he has generally tried to correct his mistakes and to work on his weaknesses.  I think there's a good chance he would ultimately accept Shallan, warts and all, once he knows the whole truth.  If the relationship breaks up, I think it will be from Shallan's Identity Crisis and her doing something bad to Adolin, rather than Adolin doing something bad to her.

After thinking about it, here's the future plot I hope might happen:

Shallan makes progress between OB and RoW in re-integrating some of her personality into her main self.  Adolin is pretty perceptive and notices this, and finally puts all the pieces together of her true nature and the nature of her alternate personas.  This leads to trust issues as I mentioned earlier - he thinks that she's deceived him every step of the way and their whole relationship is fake.  She fires back with some mean comments about him and it escalates from there.  By the time of RoW, they are spending most of their time apart while still keeping up appearances officially as newlyweds.  Early in RoW while everyone is still together, each of them confide in friends like Jasnah, Kaladin, Dalinar, etc about what to do - should they keep their marriage even though it's based on lies?  Kaladin finally pieces together the true nature of Shallan's mental state, has a chat with her about it and resolves their misunderstanding from OB.  They're able to have a heart to heart conversation again similar to in WoR where they talk through his killing of Helaran, which helps her process her feelings about it in a healthier way.  Kaladin and Shallan both realize that they've had feelings for each other at different times and to different degrees, helping their self esteem.  It sets up this awesome dilemma for Kaladin as he is forced to choose between his own old feelings for her and his loyalty but he ultimately tries to give her advice to help the relationship with Adolin.  All of "Team Radiant" conspires to force them together on a mission to make up, which leads to the RoW covers joint mission that ultimately leads to them reconciling.

[Karger]

2 minutes ago, agrabes said:

She fires back with some mean comments about him and it escalates from there.

I think they are both mature enough to keep it from escalating.  Adolin certainly is.

3 minutes ago, agrabes said:

Adolin is pretty perceptive and notices this, and finally puts all the pieces together of her true nature and the nature of her alternate personas.  This leads to trust issues as I mentioned earlier - he thinks that she's deceived him every step of the way and their whole relationship is fake

That is more soap opera then brandon usually goes for.  It is also, in my view, not really believable for such realistic characters.  Can you honestly see a couple you know yelling at each other over this?  The only ones that come close in my mind are people who have never thought of their relationship as permanent(IE the cause of the breakup is not this it is just the excuse).  I think a confrontation over Shallan's unconscious lying may happen but Shallan is not overtly hostile about her issues she really does want help she is just scared about Adolin's reaction.  Assuming he remains supportive(and he is a people pleaser he likes it when he can make the people around him happy) Shallan may admit the truth to herself.

10 minutes ago, agrabes said:

By the time of RoW, they are spending most of their time apart while still keeping up appearances officially as newlyweds

Again.  I give both of them more credit then that.  They both have issues but neither is particularly prone to sulking.  If they have a problem they will talk and work it out.  If they need space they will take it probably by finding plausible excuses to be away from each other for a while.  If that happens they will both work out how they feel and if the marriage really is a lost cause they will tone it down from lovers to "married friends," something I absolutely could see them being without issue. 

23 minutes ago, agrabes said:

Early in RoW while everyone is still together, each of them confide in friends like Jasnah, Kaladin, Dalinar, etc about what to do - should they keep their marriage even though it's based on lies

Is it?  Shallan may have not been her "full self" but what she said and felt was still real.

25 minutes ago, agrabes said:

aladin and Shallan both realize that they've had feelings for each other at different times and to different degrees, helping their self esteem. 

To clarify.  By feeling you don't necessarily mean just romantic ones.  Kaladin is a hotty.  Nothing wrong with being attracted.  He claims as well, I think with a fair degree of authenticity, that his feelings for her were never exactly or purely romantic.

27 minutes ago, agrabes said:

It sets up this awesome dilemma for Kaladin as he is forced to choose between his own old feelings for her and his loyalty but he ultimately tries to give her advice to help the relationship with Adolin.

I think the two of them finally untangling that knot would be good for both of them.  Talking about their loved ones could also lead to some great plot development on what the GB are doing so I definitely do think something along these lines are going to happen.

49 minutes ago, agrabes said:

All of "Team Radiant" conspires to force them together on a mission to make up, which leads to the RoW covers joint mission that ultimately leads to them reconciling.

I have trouble believing two such vital people are set on a mission exclusively to sort out their relationship drama during the apocalypse.

[Greywatch]

3 hours ago, agrabes said:

I think the biggest danger sign in their relationship, as I see it, is that Shallan is still papering over things and has not really merged herself into one complete person yet. 

Well, I kind of think that's not something we can say in the present tense. We ended Oathbringer on Shallan's realization but we have no idea what it's actually going to look like yet. She was papering over things in Oathbringer, but it was leading up the moment at the very end of the book when Shallan admits that she's not okay. Since we don't know what happens after that moment, I don't think we can say what resulted.

Quote

So, Adolin has chosen to marry the "Shallan" persona that he has known since they met in WoR, but what he doesn't realize is that the "Shallan" persona does not contain all of who Shallan is.  She hasn't been completely honest with him - he currently thinks that "Shallan" is completely real, while Veil and Radiant are completely fake personalities that sometimes take over.  We know this isn't true - we know that she uses the personas as a place to store unwanted feelings and character traits. 

I don't think I agree with the bolded; we don't see enough of exactly what Adolin thinks. And also, Veil and Radiant are definitely partially fake! Though Shallan does use them to shunt off some of the things she can't admit about herself, they are also built up of personality traits and experience that are not real. They are not 100% fake or real.