theory [OB] Adolin and Shallan will not last

[MonsterMetroid]

11 hours ago, Llarimar said:

Sanderson usually has a pretty idealized depiction of marriage in his books.  Especially when main characters get married, it is depicted as their happily ever after - even if they experience struggles afterwards, their marriage generally remains strong.  

As I said in my OP

On 12/19/2017 at 10:19 AM, MonsterMetroid said:

Next we have almost every other kind of relationship you can imagine: Dalinar and Navani widowed and remarried, Sebarial and Palona not married, and a mentions of a Gay romance. Brandon usually likes the full set of these things I feel.

But I really don't like like analyzing this from a meta standpoint anyways of whats on brandon's mind because we cant really know.  The only thing we can do is look at the characters.

One thing that really stuck out to me in this reading of oathbringer is how Shallan wanted to call the wardship over. Remember this is something she worked VERY hard to get and was very persistant and didnt want to screw it up. But, she only wanted it for a reason right? To steal the soulcaster. That reason has long since come and gone, and the benefits of the wardship dont seem to be outweighing the cons in shallans mind especially when it comes to her freedom.

Now you may be saying ok MM what does this have to do with her marriage?

Originally her becoming causal betrothed to Adolin was for what reason? Love? No she hadn't even met the man yet! It was for protection for her and her family. Now... does shallan need protection for her family anymore? NO "That reason has long since come and gone" and I contend that in the future the benefits of marriage won't seem to be outweighing the cons in shallans mind especially when it comes to her freedom.

Right now the only thing that Shallan and Adolin really seem to share is an attraction to one another. Well attraction can, and often does fade over time.

This is speculation, but I feel it is quite reasonable speculation given how Shallan doesn't like to be beholden to anybody whether it be the Ghostbloods, Jasnah, Sebarial (when is the last time she balanced his books), and certainly not storming Adolin when it comes to protecting her. Shallan in this book is still trying to figure out what she wants and tries to go with the flow as much as she can until she figures out what that is. In the next book or two we will begin to see what it is she wants for herself... and it might not be Adolin any longer.

[IGetLIFTed]

On 12/19/2017 at 4:35 PM, StrikerEZ said:

Kaladin literally loves the fact that Shallan is able to hide away her problems, which actually is a terrible thing for Shallan right now. If they got together, it wouldn't just lead to a very toxic relationship where they each love the other person's mental issues, not the person themself. 

I thinks it’s important to point out that a lot of people misinterpret what Kaladin said. Kaladin probably doesn’t know about Shallan’s mental state; all he knows is that she’s been through a lot and can still smile. He doesn’t know what it costs her to remain cheery and “normal,” but he lauds her ability to keep going and not dwell on the past, not the fact that she splits her personality in order to deal with trauma. It’s not really fair to say he loves her mental issues when he probably has no idea they even exist.

[StrikerEZ]

1 hour ago, IGetLIFTed said:

I thinks it’s important to point out that a lot of people misinterpret what Kaladin said. Kaladin probably doesn’t know about Shallan’s mental state; all he knows is that she’s been through a lot and can still smile. He doesn’t know what it costs her to remain cheery and “normal,” but he lauds her ability to keep going and not dwell on the past, not the fact that she splits her personality in order to deal with trauma. It’s not really fair to say he loves her mental issues when he probably has no idea they even exist.

That’s actually a fair point. I still think that neither of them are in a good enough emotional state to really get into a relationship right now, and especially not with each other. 

[IGetLIFTed]

10 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

I still think that neither of them are in a good enough emotional state to really get into a relationship right now, and especially not with each other. 

I completely agree. They both are young and have issues, and aren’t really ready for relationships, especially not marriage. I am hoping, though, that maybe Adolin will “stabilize” her for long enough that she can pull herself together and get closer to reintegration. After that, she can continue the relationship, or she could choose to make a different decision. I love Shalladin, but right now, they’re not ready for each other.

[Sedside]

1 hour ago, IGetLIFTed said:

I love Shalladin, but right now, they’re not ready for each other.

Same for me. Well, journey before destination and stuff 

I also totally agree that Shadolin won't last or at least will never be a happy marriage. Here is my bunch of reasons for that:

1. Adolin doesn't love Shallan. I just don't see any textual evidence of his feelings to her. Well, there is some initial attraction in WoR, yes, but nothing in OB. I don't see any single thought about her in his PoVs. He never thinks she is pretty, while he thinks Syl is pretty (two or three times, I can't clearly remember, just finished part 1 OB reread). And I've also stated in another thread that their infamous final dialogue after TC battle is not a dialogue of a man who is in love with a girl and was about to lose her. There is no relief, no happiness, no "oh Almighty, I can't believe it, I thought I was about to lose you forever, my love!". There is "oh, well, you know, the world is so weird now... maybe we don't? oh, you insist... well, you know, you are weird too, all these three-persona stuff, maybe we don't? ah, well, you still insist... well, all right, I don't wan't to make any decisions for my life on my own anyway, it was clearly stated in almost every my PoV since WoK".
2. Shallan doesn't love Adolin. She likes his appearance, yes, she definitely wants him sexually, but it's not a good basis for a wedding. What drives her there is probably a "momentum" and fear of changing something and of "loneliness". Maybe as well fear to stay face to face with Kaladin (this is my clear speculation, no text evidence). So I beleive that all this "storms, she loves this man" is yet another lie to herself.
3. I believe personaShallan is the farthest persona from realShallan. There are moments in WoR, where she thinks, that she would rather go infiltrating Ghostbloods than do all of this courting stuff. There is also a moment in OB where she chases ReShephir and sends Pattern for Adolin and B4 and then realises she is wearing Veil's clothes. She creates an illusion of havah and thinks something like "It is real me. Is it? Why wear this face above another face?" (quote not exact, just IIRC) She questions herself if Shallan was real her or not and why does she put her face (or not face, but disguise of her) above Veil's. We have some other moments in OB that are said with those question marks and they are interesting too, that's why I think it's important.
4. I'm sorry, Adolin lovers, but I personally don't think Adolin deserves a happy relationship. Well, maybe Sanderson will manage to evolve him somehow that he becomes worthy, I would be happy to see this, but as far as Adolin is now, he is a man who just gets everything he wants all of a sudden, avoids death four or five times, avoids humiliation after his stupid challenge for 4v1 duel, avoids responsibility for clearly anything including murder, and what is the most interesting - that's what he wants for his life, no responsibility and someone to just take care of it all (it's a quote from WoK or WoR or both maybe). I just don't believe that in a series with responsibility being one of the key ideas it can happen. The statement "manage to be born a handsome prince and everything will drop in your hands on its own" isn't sign of a good literature. He lets someone else to make a choice for him with whom he will spend the rest of his life! He must face the consequences of this. This chain of luck must end eventually.

I don't think it will be a divorce, though. I am on a "dark Adolin" side and I think he will die. Probably in a dramatic way by the hand of the one of MCs. I prefer Shallan in this role  This comes from an idea (it was originally posted in a looooong triangle thread, though I don't remember the author) that this square triangle thing is a mirror of Evi-Dalinar-Navani-Gavilar.  Evi=Adolin, Dalinar=Shallan, Navani=Kaladin, Gavilar=Jasnah and I found this theory convincing. I've also found some supporting textual hints for Shallan being mirror of Dalinar, and the whole Shadolin marriage being a mirror of Dalinar-Evi marriage, but my post is already too long.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Sedside

[IGetLIFTed]

7 minutes ago, Sedside said:

This comes from an idea (it was originally posted in a looooong triangle thread, though I don't remember the author) that this square triangle thing is a mirror of Evi-Dalinar-Navani-Gavilar.  Evi=Adolin, Dalinar=Shallan, Navani=Kaladin, Gavilar=Jasnah and I found this theory convincing. 

Oh the mirroring theory I’ve heard had Shallan as Navani, Kaladin mirroring Dalinar, and Adolin as the new Gavilar, but this one could work too.

[Pathfinder]

To clarify I will list all three theories regarding the "mirroring" and a brief break down on the proponents reasons for them. I also stress I do no prefer nor believe any one over the other, merely stating them for completeness

 

Shallan = Navani - Choosing between two people.

Kaladin = Dalinar - Both commented on their intensity, passion and gruffness. Both push down their emotions for the other party (Adolin - Gavilar) (this portion was my understanding of the argument, if in error, please let me know and I will edit it out.) Share deeper connection

Adolin = Gavilar - Both marriages based on what the union can materially provide, nobility, clean cut. Share surface connection

 

Shallan = Dalinar - Choosing between two people

Kaladin = Navani - Both express interest, but hold back due to the other party involved (Adolin - Evi). Both feel everyone is pushing the other two to get together (Shallan - Dalinar and Adolin - Evi). Both share deeper connection with their love interest

Adolin = Evi - Both arranged marriage, with disparate personalities of their love interest. Both change their respect partner, whether intentional or unintentional (Shallan - Dalinar)

 

Shallan = Navani - Choosing between two people

Kaladin = Gavilar - Now that Kaladin is a radiant, from the outside he is viewed as the better and surer choice, but does not truly understand her

Adolin = Dalinar - Now that he is not a radiant and a prince falling from grace, from the outside he is viewed as the lesser and less desirable choice, but truly does understand her. 

 

If I have mis-represented any of these, please feel free to let me know and I will update/edit the post. But to be clear, to edit the post, you must be the proponent of said argument. I will not edit it if you disagree with a particular argument. For instance the posts say "shares deeper connection". That is the opinion of the proponent of that argument. If you disagree, regardless your reasons, that still does not change that that individual holds that opinion in that argument, so that will not be changed. Thank you. 

 

edits have been made curtesy of Sedside's input. If anyone disputes or has anything to add, feel free to tag this post and let me know!

Edited January 31, 2019 by Pathfinder

[Vuko]

So it's not really mirroring because you can compare everybody to each other on some level.

[Guest]

Well, Sanderson called it a "mimicry" in the WoB, that gave birth to the ideas.

I don't really see it as a mirroring of characters, but rather as similarities in relationship dynamics.

[Pathfinder]

21 minutes ago, Vuko said:

So it's not really mirroring because you can compare everybody to each other on some level.

it is mirroring because as per WoB, Brandon said he wanted to mirror something in the past. Individuals then interpreted it in those three manners. Just because there could be multiple interpretations does not invalidate the theory. WoB below:

 

Questioner
Is Adolin and Shallan going to get together, or will Kaladin and Shallan?

Brandon Sanderson
That is quite the question. I will eventually answer that, but you are getting Read-and-Find-Outed. It is intentionally a bit of a mimicry of something else that happened in the past.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Pathfinder

[Vuko]

33 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

I will eventually answer that, but you are getting Read-and-Find-Outed.

But it's WoB from Dec 2016 when Oathbringer was in the first draft, so people had perspective only from WoR about that. Also he said that it is "a bit of mimicry" so it could mean that it's just a little bit like Dalinar/Gavilar/Navani, where Navani hesitate between two brothers not full resemblance to the past. So when you read Oathbringer you find out how it ended for the three of them, obviously there will be further character development.

But not everything good needs to end as soon as it started.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Vuko

[Pathfinder]

23 minutes ago, Vuko said:

But it's WoB from Dec 2016 when Oathbringer was in the first draft, so people had perspective only from WoR about that. Also he said that it is "a bit of mimicry" so it could mean that it's just a little bit like Dalinar/Gavilar/Navani, where Navani hesitate between two brothers not full resemblance to the past. So when you read Oathbringer you find out how it ended for the three of them, obviously there will be further character development.

But not everything good needs to end as soon as it started.

Please re-read my original post. I am not advocating the theory, nor any particular argument of the theory. The theory came up, so for completeness I presented all three. The theory is predicated on that WoB. If you do not think the WoB is applicable that is your right, but that does not intrinsically invalidate the individuals who hold to the theory based on that WoB. In other words, it is not not mirroring just because you feel the WoB isn't as strongly linked as you would prefer. Hopefully that clarified things. 

 

edit: also where does "not everything good needs to end as soon as it started" come in? There is a theory in there having Adolin and Shallan being together, and there is one having Shallan and Kaladin be together. You are entitled to believe one couple is "good" over the other, but that does not mean the people who hold the opposing view wants to "end" something "good". 

Edited January 30, 2019 by Pathfinder

[Vuko]

24 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

If you do not think the WoB is applicable that is your right, but that does not intrinsically invalidate the individuals who hold to the theory based on that WoB.

I'm not saying that the theories are wrong but it's an old WoB before third book was in it's final form, so when he told that "Is Adolin and Shallan going to get together, or will Kaladin and Shallan?" is a RAFO he in my opinion didn't wan't to spoil most of the Oathbringer relation between this three characters, with as even BS said "a bit of mirroring". But Oathbringer is done and we know now how it ended.

I also didn't say that one couple would be good and other not but we know how it ended in OB, so when i said "not everything good needs to end as soon as it started" i meant that in order to prove Kaladin and Shallan theory the mariage would need to end in some way. I mean a lot can change in two books before time jump.

[Pathfinder]

56 minutes ago, Vuko said:

I'm not saying that the theories are wrong but it's an old WoB before third book was in it's final form, so when he told that "Is Adolin and Shallan going to get together, or will Kaladin and Shallan?" is a RAFO he in my opinion didn't wan't to spoil most of the Oathbringer relation between this three characters, with as even BS said "a bit of mirroring". But Oathbringer is done and we know now how it ended.

I also didn't say that one couple would be good and other not but we know how it ended in OB, so when i said "not everything good needs to end as soon as it started" i meant that in order to prove Kaladin and Shallan theory the mariage would need to end in some way. I mean a lot can change in two books before time jump.

Eh, still stating it that way can be a very loaded gun. You see the marriage as a good thing. There are those that do not. There are those that see Kaladin and Shallan as a good thing. Them seeing Kaladin and Shallan as a good thing does not mean they want "something good to end soon". Also there are those that do not think Oathbringer is the end of it. Either way that is immaterial to the theory and WoB I posted. As you said, it is still your opinion. Your interpretation. The people who posited those three theories interpreted the WoB in those ways, and considering it was brought up, there are clearly people who still believe as much. That doesn't support your assertion that just because it could be applied in three different combinations that the theory is not valid (which was your initial response to me). I feel like you want to start a discussion/argument with me about why Shallan and Adolin should remain together when that was not the purpose of my post at all. I was only presenting the three theories. Do you have anything to add to clarify any of the three I presented? Otherwise feel free to discuss your thoughts on Shallan, Adolin, and Kaladin with anyone else on this thread who would wish to continue to discuss it. I just suggest staying away from verbiage that would imply a negative connotation to views differing than your own. Hopefully that came out as neutral as it was intended. 

[Quantus]

Personally, I dont think Kaladin is really on the table anymore (even if 2/3 of Shallan are apparently still interested as of the end of OB).  My interpretation of his talk with Syl at the end of OB is him realizing that his feelings toward her were the result of her having the same strange Emotional Support effect on him that Tien did when they were younger.  He had been fascinated by her ability to bear similarly deep scars as him without falling into the depression Dark Place that has haunted him since he was younger and enjoyed being near another Lightweaver like Tien that had the uncanny ability to shake him out of it.  That leaves me with the expectation that they will continue to get close (as I expect all of our leading Radiants to do) but that any actual Love that develops will be more along the lines of a Sibling sort of relationship, which could be very healthy for both of them from a mental stability perspective. 

That being said, since his Depression is a mundane Non-Magical neurochemcial thing, and two separate Lightweavers have been shown to help balance him (with a mention of how Lightweavers historically provided "spiritual sustenance" to the other Orders), absent a world with a proper understanding of neurochemistry and pharmaceuticals I certainly hope he ends up with a Lightweaver for his own sake.  Shallan already has one Squire and will likely collect more, so maybe he'll have some social luck there...

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by Quantus

[Vuko]

"Shallan = Dalinar - Choosing between two people" - Did Dalinar really choose between two people? Or just Navani choose his brother because as i remember she was bit scared of Dalinar back in his days.

"Adolin = Gavilar - Both arranged marriage, nobility, clean cut. Share surface connection" Is that really surface connection between Adolin and Shallan?

As from WoB "When she becomes different people, even if she's not completely Lightweaving herself, she shifts. --And he wouldn't be able to point out that he had seen that. But it's intuitive, and he's learned to recognize that." Sharing of  the murder he commited and so on.

Also don't the point of Adolin-Gavilar and Adolin-Dalinar contradict each other a bit? Or i'm reading into it wrong?

 

 

[Pathfinder]

14 minutes ago, Vuko said:

"Shallan = Dalinar - Choosing between two people" - Did Dalinar really choose between two people? Or just Navani choose his brother because as i remember she was bit scared of Dalinar back in his days.

"Adolin = Gavilar - Both arranged marriage, nobility, clean cut. Share surface connection" Is that really surface connection between Adolin and Shallan?

As from WoB "When she becomes different people, even if she's not completely Lightweaving herself, she shifts. --And he wouldn't be able to point out that he had seen that. But it's intuitive, and he's learned to recognize that." Sharing of  the murder he commited and so on.

Also don't the point of Adolin-Gavilar and Adolin-Dalinar contradict each other a bit? Or i'm reading into it wrong?

 

 

You are reading it wrong. Those are three separate views deriving from the WoB, so they are not meant to coincide with each other. As to your comments, are you a proponent of the arguments you are commenting on? What I mean by anything to add, I mean lets say you said "All school buses are yellow". I then say "Vuko said all buses are yellow". You then say to me "that is not what I said. to clarify I am only stating all school buses are yellow" , to which I then acknowledge my mistake, and correct the post.

So by commenting on choosing between two people, are you saying I should word it differently to better represent that argument?

When you ask about a surface connection between Adolin and Shallan, are you saying you believe what is between Adolin and Shallan is superficial but you have more descriptors to support that assertion? 

When you state that WoB are you speaking to me or to Quantus?

 

edit: to add one more bit of clarity. It sounds to me that you are of the camp that feel Shallan and Adolin should be together. Based on that, do you have anything to add to the third theory that says Adolin understands Shallan better than Kaladin in the context of the mimicing? Did how I write it mis-represent that argument in anyway that I can then improve?

Edited January 30, 2019 by Pathfinder

[Vuko]

30 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

When you ask about a surface connection between Adolin and Shallan, are you saying you believe what is between Adolin and Shallan is superficial but you have more descriptors to support that assertion? 

I'm saying it's not superficial, or it is as superficial as between Kaladin and Shallan.

30 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

So by commenting on choosing between two people, are you saying I should word it differently to better represent that argument?

I meant that this argument didn't strike me as one that could be applied to Dalinar at all because he really didn't have an option of choosing between Navani and Evi. 

30 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

When you state that WoB are you speaking to me

Yes.

Edit to not double post:

"to add one more bit of clarity. It sounds to me that you are of the camp that feel Shallan and Adolin should be together."mimicing?"

In case of WoR and OB it's better fit for all three of them in my opinion, Kaladin has serious depression and he needs to deal with this himself (obviously not alone but not by getting into relationship) not "by someone else", he has lot's of friends and people close to him. So if marriage between Shallan and Adolin helps her with her own problems she can be better help to others, same with problems that Adolin have (or will have in 4 book), so yes in my opinion they should be together until as books go something happens or someone dies.

"Based on that, do you have anything to add to the third theory that says Adolin understands Shallan better than Kaladin"

Well he sees her as who she is and accepts her multiple personalities even if not agrees with the choices that personalities made, he also can instinctively recognize when Shallan uses Lightweaving or have some changes, while Kalladin understands Shallan because they both have tragic past and feels better when she is around same as with Tien (so not romantic relation), for the tragic past that also could add another implications when Adolin finds out how his mother died.

 

 

Edited January 30, 2019 by Vuko

[Pathfinder]

24 minutes ago, Vuko said:

I'm saying it's not superficial, or it is as superficial as between Kaladin and Shallan.

I meant that this argument didn't strike me as one that could be applied to Dalinar at all because he really didn't have an option of choosing between Navani and Evi. 

Yes.

Edit to not double post:

"to add one more bit of clarity. It sounds to me that you are of the camp that feel Shallan and Adolin should be together."mimicing?"

In case of WoR and OB it's better fit for all three of them in my opinion, Kaladin has serious depression and he needs to deal with this himself (obviously not alone but not by getting into relation) not "by someone else", he has lot's of friends and people close to him. So if marriage between Shallan and Adolin helps her with her own problems she can be better help to others, same with problems that Adolin have (or will have in 4 book), so yes in my opinion they should be together until as books go something happens or someone dies.

"Based on that, do you have anything to add to the third theory that says Adolin understands Shallan better than Kaladin"

Well he sees her as who she is and accepts her multiple personalities even if not agrees with the choices that personalities made, he also can instinctively recognize when Shallan uses Lightweaving or have some changes, while Kalladin understands Shallan because they both have tragic past and feels better when she is around same as with Tien (so not romantic relation), for the tragic past that also could add another implications when Adolin finds out how his mother died.

 

 

I am sorry, you are still mis-understanding the entire purpose of my post. let us say one person mentions an intersection is dangerous because people speed through it. I then say, "hey there are two other arguments regarding that intersection, I shall present all three. they are:

 

1. it is dangerous because cars speed through it

2. it is dangerous because people do not look when they cross

3. the intersection is not dangerous, you are looking at too close a time period when compared to other streets

 

Individual comes along and says "hey i believe the intersection is dangerous because cars are speeding through it, but you forgot to add that it tends to be sports cars that drive through, which makes it even more dangerous". Ah I see, then I will edit number one to read

1. it is dangerous because sports cars tend to frequent that intersection at high speeds

 

I explained this all at the end of that original post. I do stress to read the entirety of it before responding, as this negates the reason for me to respond to the rest of your points as they do not apply to my post. 

Edited January 30, 2019 by Pathfinder

[Vuko]

If you referring to mirroring then I think that I responded with that I disagree about points like Shallan=Dalinar or "Kaladin=Navani - Both share deeper connection with their love interest", even Kaladin told Syl that this was never love. As you said this are three different views but in one Adolin truly understands her and in the other only shares surface connection...

And I responded with my own thoughts, some other facts from books or WoB and I try to expand on what I meant, I don't want to change your mind or opinion I just expanded on the topic and offer different perspective (perhaps it was already posted, don't know).

[Pathfinder]

37 minutes ago, Vuko said:

If you referring to mirroring then I think that I responded with that I disagree about points like Shallan=Dalinar or "Kaladin=Navani - Both share deeper connection with their love interest", even Kaladin told Syl that this was never love. As you said this are three different views but in one Adolin truly understands her and in the other only shares surface connection...

And I responded with my own thoughts, some other facts from books or WoB and I try to expand on what I meant, I don't want to change your mind or opinion I just expanded on the topic and offer different perspective (perhaps it was already posted, don't know).

At this point I must admit I am rather frustrated. Had you read my post, you would already know it is not my own mind nor opinion. I presented three theories I heard of based on that WoB for completeness so they could all be represented. The very first sentence of that post stated I did not support nor oppose any of them. My request for additional input was only so I would not in error misrepresent anyone else's argument in that matter. You have persisted across multiple posts in trying to engage me in a debate on adolin, shallan and kaladin when that was never my intention to begin with. I have had to literally go back to the original post and bolded the portions and still they have been ignored. So at this stage I will not longer continue discourse with you. Thank you. 

Edited January 30, 2019 by Pathfinder

[SwordNimiForPresident]

6 hours ago, Quantus said:

Personally, I dont think Kaladin is really on the table anymore (even if 2/3 of Shallan are apparently still interested as of the end of OB).  My interpretation of his talk with Syl at the end of OB is him realizing that his feelings toward her were the result of her having the same strange Emotional Support effect on him that Tien did when they were younger.  He had been fascinated by her ability to bear similarly deep scars as him without falling into the depression Dark Place that has haunted him since he was younger and enjoyed being near another Lightweaver like Tien that had the uncanny ability to shake him out of it.  That leaves me with the expectation that they will continue to get close (as I expect all of our leading Radiants to do) but that any actual Love that develops will be more along the lines of a Sibling sort of relationship, which could be very healthy for both of them from a mental stability perspective.

Thank you.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Quantus said:

Personally, I dont think Kaladin is really on the table anymore (even if 2/3 of Shallan are apparently still interested as of the end of OB).  My interpretation of his talk with Syl at the end of OB is him realizing that his feelings toward her were the result of her having the same strange Emotional Support effect on him that Tien did when they were younger.  He had been fascinated by her ability to bear similarly deep scars as him without falling into the depression Dark Place that has haunted him since he was younger and enjoyed being near another Lightweaver like Tien that had the uncanny ability to shake him out of it.  That leaves me with the expectation that they will continue to get close (as I expect all of our leading Radiants to do) but that any actual Love that develops will be more along the lines of a Sibling sort of relationship, which could be very healthy for both of them from a mental stability perspective. 

That being said, since his Depression is a mundane neurochemcial thing, and two separate Lightweavers have been shown to help balance him (with a mention of how Lightweavers historically provided "spiritual sustenance" to the other Orders), absent a world with a proper understanding of neurochemistry and pharmaceuticals I certainly hope he ends up with a Lightweaver for his own sake.  Shallan already has one Squire and will likely collect more, so maybe he'll have some social luck there...

 

Just to provide a counter idea:

Since it has been established, that Kaladin suffers from depression and depression often is accompanied by lasting doubts of self-worth. Couldn't it be that he is just telling Syl that to convince himself of it?

In fact, he has been doing the same thing from late WoR, where he told himself how Shallan and Adolin fit. This is basic depressed behaviour. And telling Syl that, is just another extension of that behaviour. Is it reflective of his true feelings/attraction? I don't think so, because his actions throughout OB show otherwise. He's obviously interested in Shallan. He has repeatedly shown worry about her, has shown jealousy and, if we remember how he looked at her during the flight to Kholinar, he is obviously attracted to her.

Yes, he's amazed by Shallan's ability to just ignore, but reducing his attraction to that is unfair in my opinion as he has shown so much more.

I get that the comparison between Tien and Shallan seems obvious, especially because Lightweavers tended to give "spiritual sustenance". But, again, depressed people often find a few people, that just plain make them feel better. The first person Kaladin found, that made him feel better was Tien. And then he found Shallan. Who else should he compare it to than Tien? I think it's a logical consequence, that he did. He had nothing else to compare to. Also, if his depression is "mundane" (I'm sorry, I have a real problem with calling depression mundane, but I don't think you wanted to offend) and not magical, then it would be strange, if it would be "fixed" by some inherent Lightweaver thing, right?

Edited January 31, 2019 by SLNC

[Vissy]

Never say never. I don't think Shalladin is likely, but the groundwork for it to happen exists. For now though, it's Shadolin show, and whether or not Shalladin will ever happen will probably depend on how badly this instant marriage plan goes.

[Winds Alight]

12 hours ago, Quantus said:

Shallan already has one Squire and will likely collect more, so maybe he'll have some social luck there...

 

I am so sorry, I completely understand what you wanted to say with this and I am inclined to agree with you, but my first thought was Kaladin/Vathah and I'm wheezing right now.

I personally have grown rather tired of the Kaladin-Shallan-Adolin discussion so I'll just sit back and see how it turns out, save reading the occasional OT3 or Kadolin fic.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Winds Alight