The Lord Ruler vs. Susebron

[Yata]

1 hour ago, Mutantspicy said:

I was in fact primarily referring to the bands that were piercing his skin.  Its been quite a while since I read Final Empire, so I didn't remember them being Atium.  Obviously removing would require more investment, but I don't think it would be as impossible as you are suggesting. It's not like they were buried in there too deeply just enough to prevent Steel/iron alomancy.  

They were Metalminds full of charge (hard to affect with magic) integrated into a living being (how make them harder to affect with magic) extremely High Invested (that make him harder to affect with magic)...you May see how Awaken them could be' a quite impossible task and also It will do nothing to the Atiumind...they will not stop to work or something like that.

1 hour ago, Mutantspicy said:

And while his alomancy would still be in affect, how much of that matters.  Consider that Susebron would not foolish enough to show up to such a battle with any form of metal on his person other than aluminum. Coin shots would really be TLR's only true offensive weapon which Susebron could have an intelligent aluminum shield carried by one or more of his lifeless for instance.  Soothing and Rioting could be quelled with an aluminum helm, etc. 

Well Rashek's Allomancy is so strong to affects stuff with a minim trace of metal in them...but this is mostly meaningless.

A barrage of Coins/bullets would be enough to decimate army and probably Sus. He could also recover the projectiles and repeated the stuff. By the way, how an Alluminium Shield would be super useful aganist this strategy? I am a bit confused, sure It can't be' affected directly but It could be removed fair easly with indirect meaning.

And as you pointed to Alluminium, It's possible an Alluminium hat could stop also sus' Awakening.

1 hour ago, Mutantspicy said:

As I stated early on Head to Head street fighter style, TLR wins no contest.  But with some game planning, and some knowledge, Susebron has plenty of power to make a fight out of it.

The problem yet is that Sua could mostly buy time at best but he has no real chance to put in Place a real fight. And this assuming Rashek could simply wreak him regardless of his preparatives.

Unluckly for Sus, Rashek could display a wide suite of countermoves and Skill to everything Sus (and Almost everyone) could put in place

[RShara]

If TLR has atium, he will win, hands down.  It doesn't matter how much Suse can prepare to how many come against him.  TLR can see where everything will be and strike directly.  Susebron might be able to hold out for a little while, but in the end, he's toast.

If Suse gets time to prepare and familiarity with the opponent, so should TLR.  Plenty of atium to burn, pewter, steel, etc, and awareness of Awakening so that he wears gray clothing.

[teknopathetic]

We don't known that Breathe can do well enough to make a decision. 

[Mutantspicy]

3 hours ago, Yata said:

They were Metalminds full of charge (hard to affect with magic) integrated into a living being (how make them harder to affect with magic) extremely High Invested (that make him harder to affect with magic)...you May see how Awaken them could be' a quite impossible task and also It will do nothing to the Atiumind...they will not stop to work or something like that.

I agree.  I don't think trying to awaken the metalminds is the way to remove them.  Instead I would create a series tentacles made of rope or silk, with sing goal of ripping the metalminds free.  You could create a lot more of them cheaply. You would have to employ them while TLR is distracted.

Well Rashek's Allomancy is so strong to affects stuff with a minim trace of metal in them...but this is mostly meaningless.

A barrage of Coins/bullets would be enough to decimate army and probably Sus. He could also recover the projectiles and repeated the stuff. By the way, how an Alluminium Shield would be super useful aganist this strategy? I am a bit confused, sure It can't be' affected directly but It could be removed fair easly with indirect meaning.

It simply a deflection shield, if it were intelligent it could turn a lifeless into a master defender.  similar to how nightblood cause the wielder to go blood thirsty.

And as you pointed to Alluminium, It's possible an Alluminium hat could stop also sus' Awakening.

That doesn't seem likely.

The problem yet is that Sua could mostly buy time at best but he has no real chance to put in Place a real fight. And this assuming Rashek could simply wreak him regardless of his preparatives.

Right I agree with that, That's why I think the primary strategy for success would be to buy enough time for Rashek to run out of atium, and create enough diversion to sneak attack with the silk webs I described to remove his bands.  Also, another factor is sight.  Susebron can bend light and make himself blinding.  And without any metal or allomancy, Rashek would have a hard time seeing him. 

Unluckly for Sus, Rashek could display a wide suite of countermoves and Skill to everything Sus (and Almost everyone) could put in place

His chances are slim to none, but I think its interesting to ponder over potential strategies.  I do think Sus if anyone has the best shot of defeating him.

 

[asterion137]

Raoden has a better chance of killing the lord ruler than susebron does

[Yata]

Ok I got some of your points.

7 hours ago, Mutantspicy said:

I agree.  I don't think trying to awaken the metalminds is the way to remove them.  Instead I would create a series tentacles made of rope or silk, with sing goal of ripping the metalminds free.  You could create a lot more of them cheaply. You would have to employ them while TLR is distracted.

Here I am uncertain, how those tentacles could hit him moving at high speed and with a Mistborn's mobility ? Without considerating he could simply cut/burn them or discarge with Chromium. I also agree with the cheaper part, but remember also every Awakening comes to an high price, I know 100k Breath could seems an unlimited amount but....losing 100 Breath (a basic assumption about the minimum to craft Awakened objects) would cost him 0,1% of his Reserve each. Could seems not too much, but I assume your want for him to build a complete counter force...We are talking of a lot of Awakened Objects.

Objects that are unlikely to be able to keep aganist TLR's speed...damnation it, he could simply create a sonic boom when he need to push away the attacker with the bare shockwave.

7 hours ago, Mutantspicy said:

It simply a deflection shield, if it were intelligent it could turn a lifeless into a master defender.  similar to how nightblood cause the wielder to go blood thirsty.

This is simply insane, no way a Lifeless (or three) could hold aganist an object pushed by TLR's level of power. It's simply ridicolous the raw power Rashek's showed is enough to trip Shield+multiple bearers at the same time. Without considerate that you need tons of them to cover all the angles the attacks could come. You can't really expect a Lifeless to be able to counter TLR's movements and cover every angle. The sheer amount of cover Sus would need it's almost a complete dome around and then he surelly can't awaken stuff out of the Dome (by the way, it's not a Stephen King's reference, I hate him XD)

7 hours ago, Mutantspicy said:

That doesn't seem likely.

It could or not...I see as a concrete possibility but nothing sure. If an Alluminium-Hat prevents Magic to affect your mind, it would prevent also your mind to affect the external world. At least the Mental Command will be shouted. But as it's a speculation, put it aside for this topic. By the way, thanks for made me think about...I never considerated that before.

7 hours ago, Mutantspicy said:

Right I agree with that, That's why I think the primary strategy for success would be to buy enough time for Rashek to run out of atium, and create enough diversion to sneak attack with the silk webs I described to remove his bands.

Honestly guy, I never considerate TLR burning Atium in the fight XD Again the silk tendril ripping his bands out is mostly out. I already exposed it before the reason of that.

7 hours ago, Mutantspicy said:

Also, another factor is sight.  Susebron can bend light and make himself blinding.  And without any metal or allomancy, Rashek would have a hard time seeing him. 

ok now you are joking. First of all, do you remember the Sus's description of how he see the world thanks to his ridiculous amount of raw power ? TLR is mostly the same, no blinding or light could affect that (just see the BoM's holder's PoV for a comparative)...At those level of Investment, the people start to see the Realmatic matrix behinde the stuffs. Regardless, do you really proposed that a guy with enanched Bronze Sense and with two powers who affect Senses could have problem in fight aganist a blinding guy ?

7 hours ago, Mutantspicy said:

His chances are slim to none, but I think its interesting to ponder over potential strategies.  I do think Sus if anyone has the best shot of defeating him.

Probably here we will disagree forever. I see Sus or every other Awakener as the bottom of the TLR's competitors. He is a glass cannon who could hold the field for a while with the right prep. Probably other kinds of magic users also if less Invested are a better adversary to him (and they will still lose). I don't want to go into details because we are in mistborn's section here.
Unluckly for everyone, a Fullborn also without Compounding and Rashek's OP Allomancy has a too wide array of options to use...it's a versatile fighter who could cover almost every circumstance and counteract to mostly everything (by the way a Mistborn alone is already in this scope of possibilities)

@asterion137 we are in mistborn here. Probably it's better to remove other stories's stuff.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Yata

[The One Who Connects]

22 hours ago, Mutantspicy said:

I was in fact primarily referring to the bands that were piercing his skin.  Its been quite a while since I read Final Empire, so I didn't remember them being Atium.  Obviously removing would require more investment, but I don't think it would be as impossible as you are suggesting. It's not like they were buried in there too deeply just enough to prevent Steel/Iron Allomancy.
I don't think trying to awaken the metalminds is the way to remove them.  Instead I would create a series of tentacles made of rope or silk, with sing goal of ripping the metalminds free.  You could create a lot more of them cheaply. You would have to employ them while TLR is distracted.

The Investment level was irrelevant for both our purposes. I mean the physical effort of pulling something like a bangle or ring is much less than the effort needed to pull something that pierces the skin. A ring will slide right off a finger, but piercings don't just "slide." That was my point. You'd have to rip them out faster than TLR can heal himself, which simply isn't feasible.

They pierce both sides of his arm, so you can't just pull it out like a splinter. The awakened ropes(or whatever) will need to physically bend the Atiumminds enough so that the ends are no longer piercing his skin so the band can slide/fall off. Bending metal isn't exactly the easiest thing to do.

22 hours ago, Mutantspicy said:

Susebron could have an intelligent aluminum shield carried by one or more of his lifeless for instance.
It simply a deflection shield, if it were intelligent it could turn a lifeless into a master defender.  similar to how nightblood cause the wielder to go blood thirsty.

You forget that Aluminum is immune to all the magic systems, including Awakening. You can have a mundane aluminum shield, or you can have an awakened shield of some other material, but not both. And as Yata mentioned, whatever the shield is made off, if TLR pushes a moderately heavy object into it, it'll be shoved back too. You don't expect an Aluminum/Awakened Shield to stop a car, do you?

TLR casually throws a push in Vin's direction, and it also pushed upon the trace metal in the coloring of the stained glass window fragments. Susebron might not be carrying metal, but he can't prevent the environment from having metal, not to that extent.

16 hours ago, Mutantspicy said:

21 hours ago, Yata said:

And as you pointed to Alluminium, It's possible an Alluminium hat could stop also sus' Awakening.

That doesn't seem likely.

Oh no? An aluminum hat can interfere with Soothing as well as being Soothed, so logically the same holds true for Awakening, making it.. risky. It also blocks in a bubble, so too many Aluminum shields can interfere with Susebron just as easily.

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]
So, if we switch to Scadrial, and I had lined the inside of my hat with aluminum, I'm protecting myself from emotional Allomancy. What if I was able to use emotional Allomancy? Would that block me?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
So, it's going to interfere a little bit. But the issue with that is, a lot of Allomancy is coming from center and going to head. So, you're probably still gonna be okay with the helmet... So, I'm gonna say, you don't want a lot of aluminum around you, but you could probably still make it work.

---

Questioner
Is aluminum shielding from emotional Allomancy strictly line of sight? So, can someone in the basement bypass somebody’s aluminum hat on the first floor?

Brandon Sanderson
No, they could not. You just put enough aluminum there and it disrupts.

Questioner
So it disrupts like a field.

Brandon Sanderson
Yep.

---

17 hours ago, Mutantspicy said:

Susebron can bend light and make himself blinding. 

No, he can't. Semi Warbreaker Spoilers:

Spoiler

The Color Aura is an inherent trait of Breath, not some alterable power. Our only examples of messing with it are suppressing it, and I'm not sure the reverse is possible.

---

18 hours ago, RShara said:

If Suse gets time to prepare and familiarity with the opponent, so should TLR.  Plenty of atium to burn, pewter, steel, etc, and awareness of Awakening so that he wears gray clothing.

While I agree with you, his(MutantSpicy) plan didn't actually involve awakening anything TLR had on him, making it semi-moot. Given him mentioning Lifeless, it's more than likely that Susebron would come pre-prepared, making any prep TLR does to make the arena awakener-proof moot too. Otherwise, you make a valid point about fairness.

[MonsterMetroid]

18 hours ago, RShara said:

If TLR has atium, he will win, hands down.  It doesn't matter how much Suse can prepare to how many come against him.  TLR can see where everything will be and strike directly.  Susebron might be able to hold out for a little while, but in the end, he's toast.

I think this is assuming that atium works on susebron. We know that atium works like shardic sight, but everyone we have seen atium used on has been partially created by ruin or has ruin in them. Maybe atium wouldn't work on people that ruin has no investiture in like susebron.

14 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

23 hours ago, Mutantspicy said:

Susebron could have an intelligent aluminum shield carried by one or more of his lifeless for instance.
It simply a deflection shield, if it were intelligent it could turn a lifeless into a master defender.  similar to how nightblood cause the wielder to go blood thirsty.

You forget that Aluminum is immune to all the magic systems, including Awakening.

You are forgetting that aluminum is immune to MOST magic systems, not feruchemy

Edited January 3, 2018 by MonsterMetroid
added response to One that connects

[RShara]

If metals from different planets will work for Allomancy (which they do) and they can affect things on other planets (which they do), there's no reason to think people from other planets wouldn't throw atium shadows.

 

Atium works by allowing the allomancer to see slightly into the Spiritual Realm.  This function is independent of location.  If someone has a Spiritual aspect, they will be visible to atium, unless there is proof to the contrary.

Edited January 3, 2018 by RShara

[MonsterMetroid]

8 minutes ago, RShara said:

If metals from different planets will work for Allomancy (which they do) and they can affect things on other planets (which they do), there's no reason to think people from other planets wouldn't throw atium shadows.

Ok yeah I agree with you, especially after finding this WoB

source

Quote

L0neGamer

*posting a thread in the "WhoWouldWin" subreddit titled "Randland vs Scadrial"*

Round 1: Zen Rand (after revelation, before last battle) vs Mist Vin (Feeding on infinite metal sources) - Both at their top tiers, they should, by my estimation, be matched because of the rays of power vs seeing the future.

Round 2: The armies of Randland vs The armies of Scadrial - Aes Sedai, Asha'man, dragons/cannons, vs koloss, mistings, mistborns.

Bonus round: The Lord Ruler and his armies have to take on the Dark One, and his armies. How well do they fare?

Other rounds would be cool if you come up with more.

EDIT: Since people seem to think that RandLand would stomp, how would Vin and crew, with/without the Lord Ruler, fare if they had full knowledge of Rand's abilities and 6 months to prepare?

Brandon Sanderson

I think that while Vin in the state you mention might be able to give a good fight to Rand, overall, Randland winds. Channelers are more powerful and versatile than most metalborn. Randland has far better generals; everyone on Scadrial is basically still winging it. I hand this one to Randland, unless Kelsier can pull off some improbable assassinations before the whole thing begins.

potentscrotem

Would the time reversing properties of balefire remove the ability [of atium] to see the future?

Brandon Sanderson

Boy, this one is a tough call. Mixing cosmologies is tough. If we're IN Randland, then atium would work by reading the pattern--but in the cosmere, it looks into the Spiritual Realm--where all times, locations, and possibilities conflate. Either way, I'd say Balefire could counteract atium--but it would be tricky to use correctly, as you'd basically have to balefire some object that the atium burner was factoring into their plans very soon, tripping them up and catching them unable to adjust to the new futures quickly enough.

Argent

Not too long ago you told us atium works in the Cognitive - to quote you in reference to how stronger atium burns, "However, there's a certain breaking point where you kind of crack the whole system, peer straight into the cognitive realm, and kind of have a "It's full of stars" moment."

Are the two replies still compatible?

Brandon Sanderson

I meant Spiritual there. Sorry. I deal with the cognitive so much in the books, and Spiritual so infrequently, I often have a silver/tin moment when my fingers just type the thing I'm used to typing.

So yeah if it peers directly into the spiritual reams then yeah it should work.

[The One Who Connects]

57 minutes ago, MonsterMetroid said:

You are forgetting that aluminum is immune to MOST magic systems, not Feruchemy

It prevents Feruchemical Healing, so its immune to something. I've also replied in the other thread, as it's more relevant there.

---

Either way, I'm still right about Awakening it.

Quote

Argent

Which suggests you can't actually Awaken aluminum.

Brandon Sanderson

No. It's not going to hold a charge.

[teknopathetic]

Ive always wondered if Susebron would awaken air. True, it has no colour, but is Susebron beyond needing colour? If we pretend air has enough colour in dust etc (or he doesn't need colour anymore since he bleeds white), can he Breathe-cast air and instantly win most fights? He can awaken at a distance now as well, so...

I doubt the lord ruler has that much oxygen stored in his metal minds. 

[Yata]

2 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

Ive always wondered if Susebron would awaken air. True, it has no colour, but is Susebron beyond needing colour? If we pretend air has enough colour in dust etc (or he doesn't need colour anymore since he bleeds white), can he Breathe-cast air and instantly win most fights? He can awaken at a distance now as well, so...

I don't understand your color's argument. Awakening needs color...but the color doesn't need to come from the Awakened stuff.

2 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

I doubt the lord ruler has that much oxygen stored in his metal minds. 

He didn't need it, it could just go with Health to heal the damage of oxygen lack. By the way, He could compound also oxygen on the fly if he want

[Weltall]

1 hour ago, teknopathetic said:

Ive always wondered if Susebron would awaken air.

We know that air can be manipulated in certain magic systems that probably work on similar fundamentals so it's theoretically possible but Brandon has implied that Awakening liquids and gasses wouldn't really be useful, so it's probably a non-starter of an idea.

Quote

Questioner 2

If you had enough of a cloud in one place, could you Awaken a cloud?

Brandon Sanderson

Um, you could Awaken anything. It's probably not going to work the way you want it to. There is a reason why they Awaken the things that they do. For instance if you want to make a transforming golem, you would be much better off with something thicker.

 

[The One Who Connects]

8 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

True, it has no colour, but is Susebron beyond needing colour?

Warbreaker Spoilers

Spoiler

During Susebron's big awakening scene, the floor of the room beyond him gets bled of color. So no, we have direct evidence that he still needs color.

Not that we need that evidence, Yata is correct that most of our examples of Awakening drain color from something else.

[teknopathetic]

We also don't know what else Awakening can do. Vasher somehow took the memories of that abused child, and we have no idea if such an act could be weaponized in some form. I suppose it is possible that Vasher used another divine breathe to help that child, or he sacrificed enough breathe to make the equivalent of a divine breathe, but I am not convinced. 

[Yata]

On 9/1/2018 at 6:09 PM, teknopathetic said:

We also don't know what else Awakening can do. Vasher somehow took the memories of that abused child, and we have no idea if such an act could be weaponized in some form. I suppose it is possible that Vasher used another divine breathe to help that child, or he sacrificed enough breathe to make the equivalent of a divine breathe, but I am not convinced. 

Probably it's not needed but Warbreaker Spoiler:

Spoiler

Vasher used a single Breath to manipulate the child's mind.
Indeed to be more precise, the child manipulate his own mind under the Vasher's istructions.
So the auto-awakening is performable only on the user himself....Hard to weaponize this under normal circumstances, but I could see some applications

 

Edited January 11, 2018 by Yata

[Stark]

In 99.99% of cases, TLR wins.  His Allomancy is too strong.  He is functionally immortal with Gold.  All the metal everywhere gives him a ludicrous home turf advantage.  Susebrons only chance is to fully immobilize him off the bat, by either having him tackled by lifeless, or constricted by awakened cloth.  If he can pull that off before dying, and deliver a persistent injury until TLR's gold runs out, he wins.   But seeing as TLR can still move by steel and iron in Kredik Shaw, that will be nearly impossible to maintain, especially given his Feruchemical and Allomantic strength enhancements.

Best chance I see for suse is to show up to the fight with a handfull of lifeless and preawakened objects, with commands along the lines of "At my command, bind my enemies."  Once immobilized, dump TLR into an extremely thick Aluminum, water tight coffin.  Fill it with water, or concrete, and seal it.  Wait three weeks to make sure he is drowned and used all his gold.

 

But the margin for error for that plan is non-existent.  Even pulled off perfectly, I see Suse failing more often than succeeding.

 

Move the fight to the Shattered plains, where there is far less metal available, and far less colour, and the fight gets more interesting.  TLR still wins most of the time, before getting eaten by a chasmfiend and ripping his way out of its stomach, but taking away all the metal of Kredik Shaw, and Luthadel in general, gives Suse more of a chance.  If Suse is allowed to cheat and take the Batman route of planning his approach before showing up to the fight.

 

The problem with this premise is that we are talking about a fight between a super charged individual with a limited mana pool who has lived for fifty odd years, and an individual who ascended to be a sliver before mastering not one, but two complementary magic systems that allow him to be functionally immortal, while being a savant in everything those systems can do, who has had over 1000 years to forget more than his opponent has ever learned.  Betting on this outcome would be like betting on TLR vs Odium in a no holds barred match.  They are on two entirely different power levels.

[Yata]

@Stark now I am doing the devil's advocate but:

- what stop TLR from compound oxygen to keep himself alive in the coffin? Of course this assuming he doesn't prefer to use the Cadmius to directly "skip time"

- how they manage to imprison him into an Alluminium coffin? It's quite hard and risky to grab Rashek both for a Lifeless (expecially for Chromium) and an Awakened object (Chromium or the Identity trick) and keep in Place someone who could alter his body-size (Pewter Feruchemy), mass (F-iron), is agile as hell and could letherally torn apart whatever binding Force sent to him.

- There is also a way (unknown yet) to worldhop using the Metallic Arts, as TLR has all' the possible Powers...he would be able to performe It. So binding isn't really a problem when he could slip into Shadesmar.

By the way as I saw Susebron be' able to prepare whatever he want for the fight.

I assume for sake of equality, TLR could be' at least armed too. 1-2 meele weapons (a Metallic slash weapon and a torch-like took) and a sack of Coins/similar-objects.

Assuming this, TLR could really easily destroy whatever Awaken Cloth Duse could use before the object is able to be' harmful.

By the way, I really want to try to figure how much Sus could awake with his Treasure. His stock of Breath is impressive but also Awakening consumes a lot of Breath.

Edited January 12, 2018 by Yata

[Stark]

@Yata Agreed.  This is why I feel, even with time to prepare awakened constructs in advance, Suse still looses in 99.9999% of cases.  For many of the reasons you've mentioned, especially regarding the shape changing and strength augmentation from Feruchemy.  I had not even thought of leeching the investiture out of an Awakened construct, or compounding oxygen.

I outlined the only way I thought Suse had a snowball's chance in the ashmounts to win, and as you saw, it has so many holes, the snowball has a better shot.  This is why I concluded that the orders of magnitude for the power of these two contestants is too disparate for the outcome to be contested.  Susebron loses.

But thanks for thinking points on TLR's powers that I had not considered yet!

[Landis963]

On 1/11/2018 at 1:05 AM, Yata said:

@Stark now I am doing the devil's advocate but:

- what stop TLR from compound oxygen to keep himself alive in the coffin? Of course this assuming he doesn't prefer to use the Cadmius to directly "skip time"

- how they manage to imprison him into an Alluminium coffin? It's quite hard and risky to grab Rashek both for a Lifeless (expecially for Chromium) and an Awakened object (Chromium or the Identity trick) and keep in Place someone who could alter his body-size (Pewter Feruchemy), mass (F-iron), is agile as hell and could letherally torn apart whatever binding Force sent to him.

- There is also a way (unknown yet) to worldhop using the Metallic Arts, as TLR has all' the possible Powers...he would be able to performe It. So binding isn't really a problem when he could slip into Shadesmar.

By the way as I saw Susebron be' able to prepare whatever he want for the fight.

I assume for sake of equality, TLR could be' at least armed too. 1-2 meele weapons (a Metallic slash weapon and a torch-like took) and a sack of Coins/similar-objects.

Assuming this, TLR could really easily destroy whatever Awaken Cloth Duse could use before the object is able to be' harmful.

By the way, I really want to try to figure how much Sus could awake with his Treasure. His stock of Breath is impressive but also Awakening consumes a lot of Breath.

If TLR is Rashek, then he probably wouldn't have access to the Era 2 metals (if only because he'd have known that any metals he brought to such a battle royale would be picked up by the Inquisitors).  If "TLR" is shorthand for "a Fullborn," then yeah, they'd have access to anything and would be basically invincible.  

[MountainKing]

Susebron would beat TLR because he can just awakened the air with command, "Stop anyone from me from moving." or he could just awaken something on TLR to Nightblood level power, and use that to kill him, and for the argument that everything on TLR is to invested to be invested again, remeber Susebron had enough breath to awaken all the carpets in a palace and still reach the tenth awakening.

[Stark]

On 2/4/2018 at 9:27 PM, MountainKing said:

Susebron would beat TLR because he can just awakened the air with command

Can you awaken air though?  I was under the impression that you could only awaken solids - or liquids and gases if they were encased in a solid to give them form.  I don't think this is a legit option.

You are entirely right, if Susebron creates another nightblood on the spot, he wins.  Or at worst, everyone loses.

 

As for awakening everything around, its already been pointed out that TLR's compounded strength would make it virtually impossible to bind him with cloth.

[Weltall]

@MountainKing@Stark I refer you to my earlier post here. Awakening a gas may be theoretically possible but it wouldn't actually work that way.

Awakening something Nightblood-style would be a much better option but that's not one that Susebron may have. Shashara and Vasher were scholars who performed lots of research into Awakening and they thought long and hard about the procedure of awakening steel and the Command they would give it before they went about doing so. Susebron, it's safe to say, doesn't have their experience and probably couldn't perform the necessary visualization of the Command on the spur of the moment. And Rashek is an allomancer so he's not going to be carrying enough metal on him to Awaken, other than his metalminds which, being Invested, are harder to affect with other magics.

As noted, awakening his clothes to strangle him runs into the problems that Rashek has effectively infinite reserves of health and strength so he can keep himself alive long enough to either remove the affected clothes or wait for the Breath that's animating them to run out. Or he could leech them; we're told that Rashek did know about chromium and it's an abundant metal so he might indeed have kept some around just in case he ever needed it, so it's a valid option for this hypothetical matchup.

[Stormrunner1730]

On 1/2/2018 at 8:46 PM, asterion137 said:

Raoden has a better chance of killing the lord ruler than susebron does

I agree with this on the basis that the diversity of Raoden's power is limitless as far as we're concerned.  But I can't think of anything that isn't a Shard that could be a Fullborn.  The asterisk with Raoden is that we don't know the limitations of his abilities beyond "the strength of his glyphs (I forget the technical word) decrease with physical distance from Elantris."  Even so, I can't think of how he'd actually kill TLR given the sheer power a fullborn has.

Edited February 7, 2018 by Stormrunner1730