digitalbusker

[OB] What do Willshapers do?

59 posts in this topic

Willshapers have Transportation and Cohesion. We've got one major character with Transportation already, but we haven't seen her do anything with it except go to Shadesmar, which is handy, but doesn't seem likely to be all it does. We haven't seen anybody use Cohesion as far as I know, except maybe in a vision once, but I think that was in Oathbringer so I won't go further.

So we don't really know what either of their Surges do, and we have even less idea what their synergy effect will be, but I'm hoping for teleportation (Trek style, where you disassemble and reassemble at the destination).

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We have actually seen cohesion- when Amaram went all crystally and turned the ground soft so that Kaladin would sink and then hardened it around his ankles- that was cohesion. Jazzy also used transportation to be able to soulcast things she wasn't touching like in the scene where she soulcasts an entire army and the soulcasting keeps jumping from one to the other (this one I'm pretty sure on but maybe someone should back it up). So transportation and cohesion would probably mean you can mold any object like it was clay- there's probably more but that's all I can think of right now

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I personally believe that Willshapers use transportation to move in the physical realm (Easier than Elsecallers can). Willshapers whole adventure vibe fit with that well. As for the melting thing being Cohesion is not 100% sure. It could have been Tension, seeing as a Stoneward in a vision uses Tension to climb up a cliff. We know it was Tension because Dalinar asks if he can do that, and the Stormfather says he'll use it differently. We may have never seen cohesion, so we'll see. 

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We shape wills obviously. :lol:

Edited by The Invested Beard
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8 minutes ago, The Invested Beard said:

We shape wills obviously. :lol:

XD 

Thank you fellow Willshaper for that clarification. I simply had no idea...

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3 minutes ago, Ookla the Variable said:

XD 

Thank you fellow Willshaper for that clarification. I simply had no idea...

It's very intangible, but once you get it, you get it. ^_^

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That was definitely cohesion. 

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

The Willshapers have to have Cohesion, because Cohesion is the "grab something solid and melt it and push it in any direction you want..." it's the weak atomic force.

It's, you can take this and push your hand into it and leave a hand print, or things like that, and that's a Willshaper thing, not a Bondsmith thing.

And Pagerunner was able to determine and have it confirmed that the Stormfather was mistaken in saying that was the other surge Dalinar could learn. 

Quote

Pagerunner

I was at the Houston signing, and Brandon referred me to you on a few technical questions that I was asking him, since he he was quite "brain dead."

First was what Surges the Bondsmiths have. Based on the ordering in the Ars Arcanum in WoR and OB, they should have Tension. But the application of the shared Surge we saw for both Stonewards and Bondsmiths in OB looks to line up more with Brandon's previous description of Cohesion from the Words of Radiance tour. (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/223/#e6061, although he did identify it as a Willshaper Surge there.) Brandon believed it was an error in the Ars Arcanum, and that Bondsmiths do have Cohesion, but he told me to confirm that with you.

Peter Ahlstrom

What power did you see in the book that Bondsmiths and Stonewards share?

Pagerunner

In Chapter 38:

The Shardbearer pressed his hand against the incline leading up to the Voidbringer, and again the stone seemed to writhe. Steps fromed in the rock, as if it were made of wax that could flow and be shaped.

...

"And that Shardbearer I saw? A Herald?"

No. Merely a Stoneward. The Surge that changed the stone is the other you may learn, though it may serve you differently.

Which seems to align with how Brandon has previously described Cohesion in the past, as opposed to Tension.

I assume this Surge is what Dalinar used to repair the temple of Talenel in Chapter 59, but that's not actually essential to the point.

Peter Ahlstrom

I think this has to be an error in the text.

Pagerunner

Sorry, which do you think is the error? The order of Surges in the Ars Arcanum? Or the Stormfather's statement to Dalinar?

Peter Ahlstrom

The Stormfather's statement.

Peter Ahlstrom

I have verified with Brandon that what the Stormfather said here is wrong and will be corrected in the future.

 

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Ah Ha!

Ok, so Mr. Stormfather = a dum dum

So we know what Cohesion does

I have some proof on why Willshapers will teleport in the Physical Realm. Oathgates are powered by 2 spren, one is an Inkspren, so the other is probably a Willshaper spren (The 2 Transportation Spren). Elsecallers can Transport into Shadesmar, which is one aspect of the Oathgates, the other is transporting across the world. Because of this I think the Willshapers will Transport around the PR.

Now what will their Resonance do?? 

Here are some WoB's that support my theory

Quote

Questioner

Is the key to the [Oathgates] dead spren?

Brandon Sanderson

*dry laughter* That’s an excellent question, you will actually find out a lot more about the Oathgates when you see them from the cognitive side.

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Can you tell us about Transportation? Is it like gates from Wheel of Time? 

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Oh, Elsecalling? No. But… but yes. 

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

*laughter* I meant, like, the whole... Just the Surge?  Does it go to the Cognitive Realm, is that all it does? 

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

It is the power by which they created the Oathgates. So, there is a little more to it than that. But yes, it’s basically… yeah.

 

Quote

 

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

The spren on the other side of the Oathgate in Shadesmar... One is an inkspren-- I am guessing, no? Because there are two spren that grant the Transportation Surge so that would make the other a Willshaper spren?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

RAFO.

 

 

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We actually know that Willshapers can Transport  into the Cognitive realm due to this WOR epigraph 

Quote

"As to the other orders that were inferior in this visiting of the far realm of spren, the Elsecallers were prodigiously benevolent, allowing others as auxiliary to their visits and interactions; though they did never relinquish their place as prime liaisons with the great ones of the spren; and the Lightweavers and Willshapers both also had an affinity to the same, though neither were the true masters of that realm. - Chapter 6, page 2" - WOR Chapter 53

So Lightweavers interact with the CR through Soulcasting, Willshapers through transportation and Elsecallers are primary Spren diplomats because they get both. 

This doesn't preclude Willshapers being able to transport in the Physical, in fact I suspect they and the Elsecallers can both do this as we have a WOB (which I can't find because I'm on my phone) that the surges act broadly the same between orders of which the only evidence to the contrary is a hugely dubious statement by the Stormfather. 

Edit: Found it.

 

Quote

 

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

We know, especially in Oathbringer, that Surges can work differently for different Orders, but we've also seen the Skybreakers and [Windrunners] with Flight, and the Truthwatchers and [Edgedancers], they both can do Regrowth, so is there some way that those actually work differently?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Each of them works a little differently for each Order. There are slight variations, but they are each drawing on the same source concept.


 

So while there is some variation I think suppositions of massive differences between orders in their use of surges is off base

Edited by Dlyol
Adding WOB
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I could see that Jasnah combined the transportation surge with transformation to transport her crystallization effect to multiple enemies while fighting in Thaylen. That is obviously something unique only to Elsecalling. 

If Willshapers, then, can use cohesion to mold things (like leaving a hand print in a boulder), my guess is that at the very least, inexperienced Willshapers will have to touch a surface to transport the cohesion surge to mold a broad area to their will, but perhaps seasoned ones can mold surfaces or objects without touching them, kind of like soulscasting, but instead of transforming, they mold and shape. 

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I really want to see a powerful Willshaper work kind of like a mix between a Waterbender and Earthbender from Avatar: The Last Airbender. I can just imagine someone kind of surfing around on a wave of liquid rock, or making giant rock spikes explode out of the ground and into a Thunderclast, or spraying someone with rock and freezing them in place.

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Okay, this topic has officially made Willshapers my favorite order. Venli is already one of my favorite characters, so if what @Ookla the Variable described is true, then Willshapers (and, in turn, Venli) are storming amazing. I can't want to see Venli in action. Just imagine a Willshaper running around, molding the rock everywhere around them to trap enemies or make huge stone spikes and also teleporting around to avoid attacks. It's gonna be awesome if this is true. (Also makes me excited to see Stonewards too)

Edited by Ookla the StrooklaEZ
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I think it was @Patrick Star who pointed this out originally but this video describes exactly how I imagine Willshapers fighting 

 

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2 hours ago, Dlyol said:

I think it was @Patrick Star who pointed this out originally but this video describes exactly how I imagine Willshapers fighting 

 

Yup, that was me lol.  I still stand by this interpretation, especially after Amaram trapped Kal in quicksand with Cohesion.  I'm really interested in how they use Transportation beyond the obvious uses though, could be fun.

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On 12/18/2017 at 6:40 PM, Ookla the Variable said:

I have some proof on why Willshapers will teleport in the Physical Realm. Oathgates are powered by 2 spren, one is an Inkspren, so the other is probably a Willshaper spren (The 2 Transportation Spren). Elsecallers can Transport into Shadesmar, which is one aspect of the Oathgates, the other is transporting across the world. Because of this I think the Willshapers will Transport around the PR.

I like the idea of one of the oathgate spren being some sort of supercharged Inkspren, as they are one of the spren that grant transportation.  One of the oathgate spren is described as being black and oil-slicky, which sounds just like how Ivory is described.  The problem I have with the other spren being a Willshaper spren, which would make sense from the transportation surge perspective, is that it's heavily implied (I don't think confirmed though) that the lightspren/reachers are the Willshaper spren.  They look like copper statues, and the second (non-corrupted) oathgate spren is described as being white and kind of pearlescent I think.

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Quote

I have verified with Brandon that what the Stormfather said here is wrong and will be corrected in the future.

So was the Radiant that Dalinar saw a Willshaper then and NOT a Stoneward?

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On 12/18/2017 at 10:04 AM, The Invested Beard said:

We shape wills obviously. :lol:

You joke, but it's as good a place as any to start, and given what we know about their powers, using their will to shape matter seems to be a good bet.

 

6 hours ago, Ookla the Variable said:

I can just imagine someone kind of surfing around on a wave of liquid rock, or making giant rock spikes explode out of the ground and into a Thunderclast, or spraying someone with rock and freezing them in place.

Yeah, like this. Manipulating the very earth around you using the power of your will.

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28 minutes ago, Rainier said:

You joke

I never joke. Except when I do.

Edited by The Invested Beard
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16 hours ago, Watchcry said:

So was the Radiant that Dalinar saw a Willshaper then and NOT a Stoneward?

Disregard. The Radiant Dalinar saw was a Stoneward. He just didn't share the surge with Dalinar, but instead he shared it with the Willshapers. 

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On 12/19/2017 at 1:04 AM, Watchcry said:

I could see that Jasnah combined the transportation surge with transformation to transport her crystallization effect to multiple enemies while fighting in Thaylen. That is obviously something unique only to Elsecalling. 

If Willshapers, then, can use cohesion to mold things (like leaving a hand print in a boulder), my guess is that at the very least, inexperienced Willshapers will have to touch a surface to transport the cohesion surge to mold a broad area to their will, but perhaps seasoned ones can mold surfaces or objects without touching them, kind of like soulscasting, but instead of transforming, they mold and shape. 

Hear me out on this. 

Willshapers are associated with building. 

Cymatics creates the shapes of the great cities in sand. 

Willshapers loosen up a material, making it liquid. Liquid that would be shaped by vibrations in the same ways and patterns. 

Willshapers build freaking cities. 

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if they build cities like you describe imagine how they could destroy cities.  Shattered planes could be the result of both skybreaker and willshapers working in tandem.   I dunno I just really like the idea of how different knights could use their different surges together creating crazy effects 

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10 minutes ago, Aminar said:

Hear me out on this. 

Willshapers are associated with building. 

Cymatics creates the shapes of the great cities in sand. 

Willshapers loosen up a material, making it liquid. Liquid that would be shaped by vibrations in the same ways and patterns. 

Willshapers build freaking cities. 

I like this. :)

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39 minutes ago, Aminar said:

Hear me out on this. 

Willshapers are associated with building. 

Cymatics creates the shapes of the great cities in sand. 

Willshapers loosen up a material, making it liquid. Liquid that would be shaped by vibrations in the same ways and patterns. 

Willshapers build freaking cities. 

I'm now trying to wrap my mind around how their version of cohesion differs from that if the Stonewards. 

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1 hour ago, Watchcry said:

I'm now trying to wrap my mind around how their version of cohesion differs from that if the Stonewards. 

It doesn't have to. I'd actually originally thought Stonewards would be the ones doing the building, but Willshapers appear to be associated with building instead. It's quite feasible both were involved. 

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3 hours ago, Aminar said:

Willshapers build freaking cities. 

 

2 hours ago, The Invested Beard said:

I like this. :)

It's storming inconvenient sometimes, though. I've finally found some cool new wilderness to explore, when I sneeze and BAM! Found a city.

*sigh* On to the next frontier....

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