dvoraen Posted December 30, 2017 Report Share Posted December 30, 2017 I think the major question with the Diagram, is whether Cultivation can tamper with Taravangian at will without being detected, since the Nightwatcher "blessed" him. Having her super spren do things that open people up to Cultivation's influence (while it looks like the Nightwatcher's work) would be rather sneaky, to me. In other words, the Nightwatcher's blessing is a Trojan horse, and I mean that in almost every respect (including and especially the computer science definition). I definitely like the idea that the Diagram is basically an extraordinary ruse, though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleid Posted December 30, 2017 Report Share Posted December 30, 2017 On 15/12/2017 at 4:42 PM, Khyrindor said: I think you’re right about the Diagram being a misdirection, but I think it’s fooled Taravangian too. The diagram comes totally from Cultivation, and she’s going to use it to take down Odium, all while mr T thinks he’s doing everything for Odium. I think it's fooled every Taravangian up to, BUT NOT INCLUDING, the Taravangian who wrote it. His heartlessness stretched to such an extreme that he even stopped caring about himself. The diagram will destroy Taravangian. But that was the plan. In doing so, it will leave Odium vulnerable in the same way that Cultivation made Odium vulnerable by checkmating him on Dalinar. The diagram is the same thing on a much grander scale - with the whole world as bait 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganagem Posted December 30, 2017 Report Share Posted December 30, 2017 On 12/15/2017 at 6:55 PM, Messremb said: I was actually just listening to one of the Mr. T interludes and he remarks at one point that on the day he created the diagram "He was a God on that day". At first I just assumed it was hyperbole, but what if it wasn't? what if he was so heavily invested with Cultivations power he was literally a sliver of Cultivation. It would make sense, as according to Honor, Cultivation is better at predicting the future than him. That would explain how the diagram predicts so much. Also, if Cultivations goal is to stop\kill Odium then this would be a great way to misdirect him into a position where he could fail. My only concern is that since we know so little of what cultivation actually wants, and her intent is not one we can count on to be favorable to the humans on Roshar, that we may be completely off on what she is trying to accomplish. anyways, I agree that something is suspicious with the diagram, and its goal is not what we have seen. Responding to the bit that's emboldened above.... One tiny clue to her motives may be found in her planning on Dalinar getting those memories back. She tells him that his memories will come back, very explicitly. And we understand from later events that Dalinar had to have that happen prior to facing Odium in order to defeat Odium or it would have been an onslaught he could not have handled.... He is very clear on that. That seems, how can I say it, friendly to the cause of humans, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.S.A.M.K.M Posted December 31, 2017 Report Share Posted December 31, 2017 It was originally written in a language said to have been created by Mr T. It might simply be a language previously unknown to Roshar. Sure he left a key for the text, but a lot could be lost in translation. Those difference could be key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted December 31, 2017 Report Share Posted December 31, 2017 2 hours ago, Meganagem said: That seems, how can I say it, friendly to the cause of humans, yes? There also exist stanzas of the Diagram calling for the assassination of Dalinar Kholin and/or the destruction of the new KR if need be. Spoiler tag for size. Spoiler On 12/23/2017 at 7:18 PM, The One Who Connects said: Assuming that Cultivation is in fact responsible for the Diagram, we don't even need Odium's word on this. Quote Writings upon the Bedstand Lamp “ Chaos in Alethkar is, of course, inevitable. Watch carefully, and do not let power in the kingdom solidify. The Blackthorn could become an ally or our greatest foe, depending on whether he takes the path of the warlord or not. If he seems likely to sue for peace, assassinate him expeditiously. The risk of competition is too great.” —Paragraph 4 You can either hand me a word that one could feasibly mistranslate into "assassinate" and still be a valid sentence, or you can accept that Cultivation was willing to kill off Dalinar as part of her plan. Oh and then there's this gem, which speaks for itself: Quote Book of the 2nd Ceiling Rotation “ 1118251011127124915121010111410215117112101112171344831110715142541434109161491493412122541010125127101519101112341255115251215755111234101112915121061534” —Pattern 15 This is a code that translates to "Hold the secret that broke the Knights Radiant. You may need it to destroy the new orders when they return." Cultivation is only on "our side" when our goals match hers. If the KR and the Diagram end up at cross-purposes on how to save the world, and the KR end up inhibiting Cultivation's plans with the Diagram, she's not gonna seem very friendly to the KR. To her, her goal is of the utmost importance, and anything that gets in her way is a distraction and will be removed. Assume she wrote the Diagram for a moment, and you'll see she says just this in her own words: Quote Q: What cost must we bear? A: The cost is irrelevant. Mankind must survive. Our burden is that of the species, and all other considerations are but dust by comparison. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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