Briar King

Official Star Wars Episode VIII Spoiler Topic

129 posts in this topic

I’m hoping Jace will be able to sit through this long movie without needing to pee. Can’t wait to take him.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haven’t read all the comments which I will because I’d like to see others thoughts. Ok let me start off by saying I’ve read one stinking  Star Wars book so I’m pretty oblivious to the expanded universe. For those that have I have to ask are some of these Jedi powers from those books? 

I thought it was weird in The Force Awakins that Rey all of the sudden had Jedi powers with no apparent training and could fight with a light saber without training but my thoughts were she was one of Lukes students and that explained her knowledge. Well apparently that was completely wrong. Then in this movie we have brand new physical telepathy and hologram powers.. What have I missed???

Other than that it was an ok movie. I was thinking we’d see some training between Luke and Rey which we kinda did I guess but most of it was just weird like the cave/mirror scene. The endless chase of a cruiser was pretty lame too. We’ve seen small fighters take out the Death Star but apparently tie fighter can’t take out a resistance cruiser so they just chase them until they run out of gas.. The Casio city run by Finn and Rose was just boring and weird. 

I did like the some of the characters though. I dunno I’d rank it a 5/10. 

Edit: Dang I forgot the wackiest part! Leia surviving the vacuum of space and floating back to the ship..

Edited by StormingTexan
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most of those powers are straight out of old EU like Leia’s Jedi trance and breath holding. That’s used constantly for speed heals. That space walk was small potato’s as there is no gravity in space. The Rey/Kylo is a mixup of stuff that was in also. Usually shows past events or what’s going on at that time but connecting 2 people directly is new I believe. Esp long distance.

For sure what’s new was Rey’s teleporting. Not sure what they were thinking with that one.

Edited by Briar King
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On December 25, 2017 at 10:27 PM, StormingTexan said:

I thought it was weird in The Force Awakins that Rey all of the sudden had Jedi powers with no apparent training and could fight with a light saber without training but my thoughts were she was one of Lukes students and that explained her knowledge. Well apparently that was completely wrong.

"Darkness rises, and light to meet it."

Rey's strong use of the Force simply comes from her being the vessel the Force chose to counterbalance the darkness in Ben Solo. Sure, you need training to master the Force, but you don't need training to use the Force. The idea with Rey's character is that she is the equal, but opposite to Ben Solo in the Force. 

The Force seeks balance throughout the universe. When Ben Solo became Kylo Ren, his shift to the dark side meant the Force had to choose a vessel from the light side to match him. This isn't new for the series. Luke was the light side counterpart to Vader. Anakin and Sidious, you could argue, ended up being the dark side counterpart to the old Jedi Order. I always had the theory that the old Sith Lords used to be so powerful because their numbers were so small. If the Force seeks balance, and there are thousands of Jedi, imagine how powerful a dark side user is going to be to counter them. 

What we're seeing with Rey is only new in the sense that the old ways of the Jedi Order are no more. The Force has always seeked balance, training or no training. Having a teacher is important, but it isn't mandatory to be taught in order to be strong with the Force.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Andy92 said:

"Darkness rises, and light to meet it."

Rey's strong use of the Force simply comes from her being the vessel the Force chose to counterbalance the darkness in Ben Solo. Sure, you need training to master the Force, but you don't need training to use the Force. The idea with Rey's character is that she is the equal, but opposite to Ben Solo in the Force. 

The Force seeks balance throughout the universe. When Ben Solo became Kylo Ren, his shift to the dark side meant the Force had to choose a vessel from the light side to match him. This isn't new for the series. Luke was the light side counterpart to Vader. Anakin and Sidious, you could argue, ended up being the dark side counterpart to the old Jedi Order. I always had the theory that the old Sith Lords used to be so powerful because their numbers were so small. If the Force seeks balance, and there are thousands of Jedi, imagine how powerful a dark side user is going to be to counter them. 

What we're seeing with Rey is only new in the sense that the old ways of the Jedi Order are no more. The Force has always seeked balance, training or no training. Having a teacher is important, but it isn't mandatory to be taught in order to be strong with the Force.

I get all that with the balance of the force and understand why she can be strong with the force. I'd argue though that she is showing a level of mastery beyond inherent ability to use the force. I could dismiss the part where she was able to resist Kylo's mind control but then she is just able to instinctively use the mind control on the Storm Trooper? Also be able to fight off and best Kylo (who had two very powerful masters to train him in both the dark and light) the first time she picks up a lightsaber? As I said I thought this was weird in The Force Awakens but dismissed it at he time thinking we would learn she was one of Luke's students or some other reason for her apparent skills. 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

I get all that with the balance of the force and understand why she can be strong with the force. I'd argue though that she is showing a level of mastery beyond inherent ability to use the force. I could dismiss the part where she was able to resist Kylo's mind control but then she is just able to instinctively use the mind control on the Storm Trooper? Also be able to fight off and best Kylo (who had two very powerful masters to train him in both the dark and light) the first time she picks up a lightsaber? As I said I thought this was weird in The Force Awakens but dismissed it at he time thinking we would learn she was one of Luke's students or some other reason for her apparent skills. 

I think she's just good with combat weapons. She's been defending herself on Jakku ever since she was a little girl. She beats the crap out of some thugs with her staff in TFA easily. But I think the main reason Rey is seemingly so naturally gifted is because she opens herself up to be used by the Force. Luke alludes to that in this movie. "The Force isn't a power you have, it's what binds all living things together." She seems naturally trusting in what the Force can do through her. That's really the key in being strong with the Force. 

And don't get me wrong, some of it is just cinema. "We need a hero to root for" kinda thing. But I don't think what she can do is too far fetched given what we know about the Force and the Star Wars universe in general. 

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 27 december 2017 at 11:44 PM, Andy92 said:

We need a hero to root for"

Is it wrong to root for Kylo and Hux?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Is it wrong to root for Kylo and Hux?

No. I am.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Is it wrong to root for Kylo and Hux?

I don't think so. Kylo Ren is a multi-dimensional villain. You can see his struggle on-screen to the point where it's hard not to feel for his character too.

For me though, Hux not so much. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ren kind of irks me. He's all FORGET THE PAST RAE!!!!! and then he can't even forget his own.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, ryshadium90 said:

Ren kind of irks me. He's all FORGET THE PAST RAE!!!!! and then he can't even forget his own.

I think he wants to forget his past, but is unable to do so, because it haunts him so much.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Overall I liked it. Not a fan of some of the things they did, but I do like the new direction they're going in. Creating a new mold for the future Star Wars movies. 

Favorite Scenes

  • Snoke interrogating Rey.
  • Rey and Kylo fighting the Knights of Ren.  
  • Luke throwing the lightsaber right after Rey hands it to him(though I'm sorta in the camp against grumpy Luke)
  • General Hux saying "You think we got him" after Kylo ordered all guns to shoot Luke. Combines with the scene of Luke doing the "dusting his shoulders off" things. 
  • Yoda's appearance. Obviously. 
  • Rey going to the Dark Side part of the island. 

I have a tie for my favorite two scenes. One was the Admiral going light speed right into the First Order's ship. The silence right after it and the visuals were simply amazing. Kylo killing Snoke. I 100% did not see that coming and was the plot twist that resonated with me the most. I expected, like most people, that Snoke was going to be the main baddie till the end. Kylo just straight up merking him was a great scene to watch. 

My least favorite scene was when Leigh was blown up in the bridge, was drifting in outer space then "force floated" to safety. Just so much what and so much nope all wrapped together. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Kered said:

General Hux saying "You think we got him"

The best line in the entire movie. Hux is one of my favorite SW villains after TLJ. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/27/2017 at 3:09 PM, Andy92 said:

"Darkness rises, and light to meet it."

Rey's strong use of the Force simply comes from her being the vessel the Force chose to counterbalance the darkness in Ben Solo. Sure, you need training to master the Force, but you don't need training to use the Force. The idea with Rey's character is that she is the equal, but opposite to Ben Solo in the Force. 

The Force seeks balance throughout the universe. When Ben Solo became Kylo Ren, his shift to the dark side meant the Force had to choose a vessel from the light side to match him. This isn't new for the series. Luke was the light side counterpart to Vader. Anakin and Sidious, you could argue, ended up being the dark side counterpart to the old Jedi Order. I always had the theory that the old Sith Lords used to be so powerful because their numbers were so small. If the Force seeks balance, and there are thousands of Jedi, imagine how powerful a dark side user is going to be to counter them. 

What we're seeing with Rey is only new in the sense that the old ways of the Jedi Order are no more. The Force has always seeked balance, training or no training. Having a teacher is important, but it isn't mandatory to be taught in order to be strong with the Force.

This is one of the things that confused me most about this whole movie. In one scene they mention how Rey is no-one special and the force is for everyone. But in another Yoda is saying

Quote

Lost Ben Solo, you did. Lose Rey, we must not.

 and the fact that the force chose her as an opposite would that Make her special? Why would there need to be a prophecy of one to bring balance to the force if the force always balances itself... Some things in the movie really did feel like they couldn't make a decision between two options so they chose both.

 

On 12/27/2017 at 3:44 PM, Andy92 said:

I think she's just good with combat weapons. She's been defending herself on Jakku ever since she was a little girl. She beats the crap out of some thugs with her staff in TFA easily

You are right of course she did beat up the thugs but look at this clip:

I think we can all agree here this more looks like a bar brawl and not the refined duelist style we saw from her in the last jedi. Even her fight with Kylo felt unrefined in TFA. And that's the issue many fans are having is she hasn't trained at all because luke won't train her. If you want her to be amazing with the lightsaber you need to explain it because skills with lightsaber and skills with the force are separate.

Now I enjoyed this movie a lot! But the main thing that prevents me from loving it is the plot holes it opens up into the Star wars universe and the movie in general. Remember this is Star Wars 8 if you are going to make a movie in a series you must abide by rules set in the universe not just pick and choose what you want and this movie makes it feel fairly obvious that this trilogy isn't being planned as a trilogy, but as 3 separate movies and it shows.

Without belaboring the points I made on page 4 of this thread already here are some questions to ask yourself:

Why would Luke Skywalker, who surrendered himself to the empire to attempt to save the 2nd most EVIL person in the galaxy because he was his father, even Think about killing his nephew the only son of his sister and his best friend?

Why would luke leave a map to find him if they needed help to only refuse to help them when they found him because he came there to die?

Why didn't star destroyers warp in front of the cruiser during the longest space chase ever and surround them?

Why would Holdo not tell Poe (the guy that sent a bunch of people to die in a mission earlier against orders...) that she had a plan to stop him from ruining her plan?

How in the heck did Finn and Rose get back into the base on the planet when they were one step away from the AT-ATs after their salt speeders crashed?

Why are Finn and rose even in this movie? (Note I really wish they would have done a stand alone movie for these two cause i love these characters but this arc does absolutely nothing besides make the movie LONG!!!!)

I the force balances light and dark whats the point of trying to fight light or dark because if you go dark wont it choose someone else to go light or make someone else more powerful?

If darth sideous and darth vader were the last two Sith, where did Snoke come from? 

Why did the fake dice stick around after Luke died? Heck why didnt he actually come himself?

How did Rey escape Snokes ship, meet up with Chewbacca, got on the Falcon, and then find the resistance with no problems from a whole army of first order troops/ships?

What did the dark side of the island even do for rey?

Anyways like I said it was a great movie but I would have enjoyed the movie much more if it was in a galaxy not far, far away.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MonsterMetroid said:

If you want her to be amazing with the lightsaber you need to explain it because skills with lightsaber and skills with the force are separate.

Not exactly. It's clear in the fight at the end of The Force Awakens that Rey is about to lose until she allows the Force to fully control her actions. The Force is what makes all great Jedi good with a lightsaber. Exactly how much lightsaber fighting did Luke do onscreen before he beat Vader? Not much. He simply became more accustomed to trusting the Force. 

1 hour ago, MonsterMetroid said:

Why would luke leave a map to find him if they needed help to only refuse to help them when they found him because he came there to die?

He didn't leave the map behind. The map showed the location to the first Jedi temple, the location that people closest to him assumed he had gone to (Han's words in The Force Awakens). The research done and stored in the map led to that temple. 

1 hour ago, MonsterMetroid said:

Why would Holdo not tell Poe (the guy that sent a bunch of people to die in a mission earlier against orders...) that she had a plan to stop him from ruining her plan?

This was something I watched for in my second viewing. I think it comes down to Poe's arrogance during the situation. He assumed during the briefing that he was going to be named Admiral in Leia's absence. Following that moment is the only time he approaches Holdo. She may not have had a concrete plan during that scene, we don't really know. But Poe never tried to talk to her again throughout the entire film (until his mutiny). It's not like Holdo needed to search Poe out to give him updates. When Poe learned the plan was to use the transports, he flipped out. Once he knew what the plan was, he still didn't like it. So telling him earlier wouldn't have made a difference anyways.

1 hour ago, MonsterMetroid said:

in the heck did Finn and Rose get back into the base on the planet when they were one step away from the AT-ATs after their salt speeders crashed?

Film magic (this one does seem like an oversight). 

1 hour ago, MonsterMetroid said:

Why are Finn and rose even in this movie? (Note I really wish they would have done a stand alone movie for these two cause i love these characters but this arc does absolutely nothing besides make the movie LONG!!!!)

Eh, I liked what Rose brought to the film, and I think Finn showed some nice character growth. He had to learn to stop fighting for himself and start fighting for his team. That was something about his character from The Force Awakens that did need addressed after he planned to leave the Resistance at Maz's castle. I do agree that their side plot was too long though. 

1 hour ago, MonsterMetroid said:

I the force balances light and dark whats the point of trying to fight light or dark because if you go dark wont it choose someone else to go light or make someone else more powerful?

I actually think this movie does try to address this some. Luke and Yoda wanting to move on from the old Jedi Order. Kylo Ren wanting to kill the past, leave the Jedi and the Sith both behind. The Force will always be there, but until the people of the galaxy learns how to balance the light and dark within themselves, the Force will always be looking for that balance (and we keep getting more movies!). 

1 hour ago, MonsterMetroid said:

If darth sideous and darth vader were the last two Sith, where did Snoke come from? 

We'll probably get his backstory in a book lol. 

1 hour ago, MonsterMetroid said:

Why did the fake dice stick around after Luke died? Heck why didnt he actually come himself?

Luke's X-wing was in the bottom of the ocean...so he literally had no way off the island after Rey left on the Falcon. 

1 hour ago, MonsterMetroid said:

How did Rey escape Snokes ship, meet up with Chewbacca, got on the Falcon, and then find the resistance with no problems from a whole army of first order troops/ships?

She stole Snoke's ship after the fight scene. Kylo Ren tells Hux that's how she got away. Doubt anyone would think to shoot at Snoke's ship since no one knew he was dead at the time. 

1 hour ago, MonsterMetroid said:

What did the dark side of the island even do for rey?

I personally loved that scene because it paralleled what Luke saw in his dark side vision during Empire. He looked in the face of Darth Vader and only saw himself. Now we have Rey searching for why she's significant to this story, and when searching for her parents, she finds herself. I think that's the symbolism the scene is trying to show. She doesn't need validation from her past to show why she's important in the present. 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Andy92 said:

Not exactly. It's clear in the fight at the end of The Force Awakens that Rey is about to lose until she allows the Force to fully control her actions. The Force is what makes all great Jedi good with a lightsaber. Exactly how much lightsaber fighting did Luke do onscreen before he beat Vader? Not much. He simply became more accustomed to trusting the Force.

And sure the force might be able to let you have better reaction time or something but it can't help you better develop a style of dueling I mean there are multiple fighting styles in Star wars just like there is in Stormlight and no one is better than the other they just have better situational uses. In TFA though you can see in this clip that Rey's fighting style is still super unrefined even when she allows the force to help.

https://youtu.be/9hkFXWyyvok?t=1m40s

There is a lot of jabs and overhand swings leaving herr wide open to attacks. I contribute a lot of her success in beating him to Chewbaccas blaster shot and him losing blood which is why I never minded this.

As for Luke he didn't get much lightsaber fighting on screen that's for sure but according to most lore about 5 years passed between the destruction of the 2 death stars and about a year between ESB and RotJ. granted he didn't have a master to teach him most of that time(unless you count a possiblity of Obi-Wan's ghost) but he did have time and experiences with the rebellion to get better, neither of which Rey had between movies.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Andy92 said:

Luke's X-wing was in the bottom of the ocean...so he literally had no way off the island after Rey left on the Falcon. 

You see I saw this as just a teaser like when the X-wing was at the bottom of Dagobahs swamp I assume it would still work cause those things be like waterproof or something.

 

23 minutes ago, Andy92 said:

I personally loved that scene because it paralleled what Luke saw in his dark side vision during Empire. He looked in the face of Darth Vader and only saw himself. Now we have Rey searching for why she's significant to this story, and when searching for her parents, she finds herself. I think that's the symbolism the scene is trying to show. She doesn't need validation from her past to show why she's important in the present.

Hmm interesting, I do like this so have an upvote. Rians view of the force definately seems to vary way differently from the previous movies where dark and light sides of the force were almost 2 different entities trying to draw people from the light side to the dark. It feels like rian went with more of a "the force is grey not good or bad" outlook that some villains blame their actions on in other movies. So I guess the Dark side figured it would draw her over if she really was a nobody then?

 

29 minutes ago, Andy92 said:

Eh, I liked what Rose brought to the film, and I think Finn showed some nice character growth. He had to learn to stop fighting for himself and start fighting for his team. That was something about his character from The Force Awakens that did need addressed after he planned to leave the Resistance at Maz's castle. I do agree that their side plot was too long though. 

Don't get me wrong like I said I enjoyed their characters, a lot, but their whole plot in the movie if you removed them from it you don't really lose anything of great worth! it feels like what you would expect from a LotR extended edition of 45 more minutes of flavor but in the end meaningless content to the story. I mean they didnt get the right codecracker, they didn't succeed in stopping the hyperdrive tracker thing. I mean if they just edited a lot of that out It would have made for a much better length movie and they could more fully flesh out those characters in a spin-off where they can get the time they more fully deserve.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@MonsterMetroid Overall I think it was a good, but not amazing movie. It takes some risks for a Star Wars movie, some that failed and some that really succeeded as well. I think you make a lot of valid points. For me it was a film I had to watch twice before certain things started to really set in for me.

Some of the ways we remember the Force from the original movies is being expanded on for sure, but I think it keeps things fresh. The black and white hero vs. villain arc has been done time and time before, and we know how it ends. One of the things that excites me the most right now about the franchise is that the main villain is off the rails and unpredictable. Vader killed the Emperor because he wanted to save his son. Kylo killed Snoke because of envy and lust for power. That's going to be really interesting and has a lot of potential for how his character plays out in Episode IV. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am neutral about the movie, I don't think it was bad, I enjoyed it, but there are things I didn't like.I hated Finn's and Rose's plot, I loved Poe's plot and I thought Rei's was ok.I don't like she been so good with the Force with 0 training or how Snoke died, but I like her scenes with Luke and with Kylo.

Also it has too many jokes.

Edited by Idealistic
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Idealistic said:

I am neutral about the movie, I don't think it was bad, I enjoyed it, but there are things I didn't like.I hated Finn's and Rose's plot, I loved Poe's plot and I thought Rei's was ok.I don't like she been so good with the Force with 0 training or how Snoke died, but I like her scenes with Luke and with Kylo.

Also it has too many jokes.

I thought the humor was good, but also weird because some of the previous movies had more dark to humor ratios. The way Snoke dies was interesting because it was comparing Rae to himself and how Kylo saw them. I thought that the scenes with him and Rae were interesting but their trust progressed really quickly.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So....

I dont havre much to say that hasnt already been said.  Im mostly wondering how they're going to tie up this trilogy and all of star wars with the next movie. Even if they defeat the entire First Order, there won't be one fair ruling power and this galaxy and it'll still all go to chaos. 

On 21 December 2017 at 1:48 PM, PlanetReelo said:

3) Luke Skywalker's end - I was okay with this, if a little sad. I'm fine with the fact that the OT characters are slowly being phased out to make way for the new generation. I think the general consensus on the JC forums is that people expected him to have greater involvement in episodes 8 and 9. They felt that his death wasn't befitting of a jedi (Yoda anyone?) and indeed that many of his actions were out of character (refusing to help Rey, considering killing Kylo Ren in the hut etc). But i'm actually glad that he didn't stay the same for 30 years, and that he's become a more jaded person. It makes sense given everything he's been through.

So thematically Luke needs to die like Snoke and let the next generation take over. But plot wise, what killed him? I mean sure he did that weird corporeal-when-it-feels-like-it ghost, and it obviously took a lot out of him, but also, he's not exactly old and frail. Did he choose to die because he'd finally confronted Kylo?

Also, I assumed the Knights of Ren were the other students who left with Kylo, but youre all saying they're the guys Rey and Kylo fought after killing Snoke. So.....huh?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Del-light-full said:

So....

I dont havre much to say that hasnt already been said.  Im mostly wondering how they're going to tie up this trilogy and all of star wars with the next movie. Even if they defeat the entire First Order, there won't be one fair ruling power and this galaxy and it'll still all go to chaos. 

So thematically Luke needs to die like Snoke and let the next generation take over. But plot wise, what killed him? I mean sure he did that weird corporeal-when-it-feels-like-it ghost, and it obviously took a lot out of him, but also, he's not exactly old and frail. Did he choose to die because he'd finally confronted Kylo?

Also, I assumed the Knights of Ren were the other students who left with Kylo, but youre all saying they're the guys Rey and Kylo fought after killing Snoke. So.....huh?

When Kylo and Rey's minds first started connecting, he made a comment about how, "This can't be you doing this; the strain would kill you." Force-projection is a bit beyond extremely taxing; Luke was not only able to pull it off, but manage it complete with fancy battle moves and imaginary lightsaber. He drained his reserves completely dry and then some; that's why he died.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Kaymyth said:

When Kylo and Rey's minds first started connecting, he made a comment about how, "This can't be you doing this; the strain would kill you." Force-projection is a bit beyond extremely taxing; Luke was not only able to pull it off, but manage it complete with fancy battle moves and imaginary lightsaber. He drained his reserves completely dry and then some; that's why he died.

Not to mention that, IIRC, he had cut himself off from the Force previously. Both factors combined = extra strain.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really liked the movie. There are some parts that left me feeling conflicted, but overall I liked it.

I have a tendency to rant, so I apologize. I went ahead and put the major ones in spoiler tags so that it wouldn't take up too space.

Luke

Spoiler

This is easily my biggest rant/issue with the movie. I'd first like to preface this by saying that Luke was one of my favorite characters, so I'm a little biased. 

I liked how they explained that Luke closed himself off from the force, since it gave a credible reason why he wasn't doing anything during the Force Awakens, what with several planets worth of "millions of voices that suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced" that was going on. I also liked the conflict he showed and their explanation for how Kylo was created.

I was also mostly okay with Luke's reason for being on the island. He felt he had lost his way, both for almost killing his nephew and for acting in such a way as to cement his path to the dark side. I will say that it still seems a bit silly that he went there to die, yet still decided to leave a map to his location (I'll admit that I've always found that particular part of Awakens plot ridiculous).

I wasn't happy with how they ended Luke. It irritates me to no end. They gave him a great scene where he was finally back, helping the Resistance (who for some reason feel like keeping that name like some kind of rebranding, even though literally every single person is referred to as a rebel, but I'm digressing) escape the base, and his confrontation with Kylo seemed like a really great way to show the history and relationship between them. The whole "Be seeing you kid" at the end really made me happy because it seemed like he was promising to be a thorn in Kylo's side by joining the Resistance. But instead he just disappears, apparently becoming a force ghost.

That really disappointed me. It just doesn't make sense. You could argue that he overexerted himself, but he was able to get back up after collapsing, and was sitting on his rock without signs of strain before fading away. And Rey and Leia seemed to support the theory that he made the choice by saying that he was at peace. But this is really what irritated me. He made a big statement about how the Jedi were not gone, and that Rey would carry the torch. I get that. But why on earth would you decide "hey, you know what would be great? Even though we currently have the dark side out-numbered 2-1, and even though there's a whole lot I could teach Rey in person, I'm just going to fade away." It's ridiculous. They showed his x-wing was in the water, but it's not like that was a problem before on Dagobah. He could have lifted it out of the water, fixed anything that needed fixing, and flown off to become a mentor. Instead he decides to become a force ghost, who are often just to the left of useless.

(Explanation for my belief on force ghosts)

Spoiler

They have rarely ever done much for the plot. Obi-wan made a big deal about it, but his whole "more powerful than you can possibly imagine" boils down to 2 useful sentences and 2 5 minute conversations that didn't really accomplish much. His only two real accomplishments were convincing Luke to "trust the force" and getting Luke to go to Dagobah, the second of which could have easily been accomplished with a recorded message, never mind that it took him 3 years to do so, during which Luke received little to no Jedi training.

If you then take into account the events of The Last Jedi, their uselessness becomes even more apparent. Yoda apparently has the power to call down lightning, yet none of the force ghosts could be bothered to help when the Jedi were being wiped out for the 2ND TIME. That's 4 force ghosts who just twiddled their ghostly thumbs while children were being massacred. One of them was even the cause of the first jedi purge, and you'd think that he of all the spirits would be the most invested in stopping it from happening again. Before, you could potentially argue that they were neutral forces, only able to act as advisors and even then infrequently. That is no longer a valid excuse, since they can apparently decide to impact the physical world. In the end, while it's neat that they're able to become ghosts, the ghosts never seem to accomplish much.

I just feel like they could have done more with his character. The fact that a major plot point of Awakens was finding Luke and bringing him back makes his decision to disappear (again) feel even more abrupt. It especially disappoints me since it feels like they are doing this solely to make Rey seem more important. There's no real reason why Luke had to to this. I feel like Rey could still be the main hero of the saga, and that having some mentor (who is actually around to help and teach) wouldn't hurt. It just seems to make no sense. The entire last movie's plot was originally driven by the need to find Luke, and yet he has little to no real impact on this trilogy. It just felt like a weird shift to go from "We need to find Luke to restore the jedi order" to "Rey is our patron jedi now". Especially since Luke was some figure acknowledged by most of the galaxy, while Rey is someone they met literally 3 days ago. Maybe my feelings will change when the trilogy is finished, but for now I'm still a little bit sad/miffed.

Rey

Spoiler

I really liked how she tried to help Kylo, (even though I didn't want him to be redeemed). I liked that she was willing to have hope, even when everyone else was convinced there was nothing that could be done. I also liked her interactions with Luke, and the way she was always trying to learn more. Her and Kylo fighting the guards after Snoke's death was awesome, and was definitely one of my favorite scenes. I really like the dynamic between the two, and how they were both fighting each others ideals, while still trying to work together.

Things I didn't like

  •  The reveal about Rey's parents. I get what it was going for. Anyone can become a hero/you don't need to be from some important bloodline in order to be a powerful jedi. I like the message, and if it weren't for the previous movie, I could be okay with it. However the previous movie made a point to put special emphasis on Rey, both on her existence and the question of her parents. True, it can be said that people's expectations were too high, especially with all the crazy theories going around. However I can't help but feel like these expectations weren't completely unwarranted. The Force Awakens made a point of stressing the mystery of her past, often hinting that it was important. You can see examples with Kylo focusing the fact that "a girl" was with the droid, and when Maz Kanata looked at Han, asking "who's the girl" only for the scene to cut away. Now apparently we know that it cut away from Han saying "I don't know", which is (in my opinion) completely and utterly pointless. The reveal disappointed me because it seems to make all the the foreshadowing and mystery pointless, especially when you watch through the movies again. It just seems like a waste of foreshadowing. Like the directors decided, "we are going to have this huge red herring, only the red herring is the idea that there was a herring in the first place". It just feels like it could have been more. Especially since it could have been used to continue different themes, for a cool moment, or explain away plot holes from the previous movie. It just felt like something of a let down.
    • It's like if in the Mistborn Trilogy (Spoilers below, please be careful)
      Spoiler

      If Brandon had given all those hints that there was something going on with Vin's earring, only for Vin to realize in the HoA that the earring wasn't special in any way. The reason why she couldn't access Preservation's power was because she didn't have enough faith in herself, and thus could not see herself actually holding the power, with some message like "even those who are great can have doubts" or something like that.

      It's like, "sure that's a nice message, but what about all that foreshadowing about the earring? You mean it was all for nothing?"

       

  • Rey's still inexplicable competence. This was a problem for me while I was watching Awakens. I couldn't understand how Rey, a girl who has never held a lightsaber in her entire life could beat Kylo Ren, someone who had been trained by both jedi master and  whatever Snoke was (a sith?). I mean, it's true that he was injured and was in emotional turmoil, but it's shown that wasn't much of a factor, considering he was able to beat Finn 5 seconds earlier. Finn, who is a child soldier from birth, who has had actual military training in a variety of weapons. I was able to accept it though since I figured that we didn't know her past, and there was a chance she had either spent time in Luke's new jedi school, or was related to some jedi character. However, as seen above, that was not the case. Fast forward to Last Jedi, and Rey spends 2 days with Luke learning to be a Jedi. During that time, the amount of training she received to use a lightsaber sums up to a few minutes waving a lightsaber around with no instruction whatsoever. That's it. And yet somehow she is able to beat several trained bodyguards in Snoke's throne room? Not to mention use the force to open a cave at the end? Keep in mind that the Last Jedi occurs almost immediately after Force Awakens, the events of which occurred in one day. That means that the current trilogy's events have happened over the course of about 3 days, or half a week. Half-a-week. Half a week, and suddenly Rey goes from not even knowing that the Force exists to being one of the most powerful jedi we've seen and able to out-fight people should have years more training than her? Luke had 3 YEARS to practice and even then he could barely pull a lightsaber out of some snow. Even after spending time with Yoda, he was no where near Rey's level of fighting ability, and he had been fighting in a war for years. This problem is kind of a lead off of the previous one, since I felt like they could have used the previous one to explain her skill, but really it just bugs me that she is able to become so skilled and accomplished so quickly, when in both the original and prequel trilogies it was shown that mastery takes time, even when a person has high aptitude.

Finn & Rose

Spoiler

I liked Rose for 90% of the movie. The reason why this dropped from being a full 100% was because of her actions on the salt planet. To recap: The Resistance were trying to stop the mini death star laser from destroying their front door. They suffer heavy casualties, and make the call to turn back. Finn goes against orders and decides to sacrifice himself in order to stop the laser from firing.

It was at this point in the movie that I was hoping for a miracle. I like Finn, but I didn't see anyway out for him. However, as he was moments from impact, I was making my peace that this was the end. "It's all right" I figured. "He may die, and I may not like it, but he's going out a hero, saving several lives, so its oka-" and then Rose comes out of left field to slam Finn out of the way of the laser. 2 seconds later, the laser fires, breaking down the door and likely killing several people.

This really made the logical part of my brain very angry. Especially when Rose turned to Finn talking about how this was how they were supposed to fight, not giving up things they love. That's a really great message. Thank you for that Rose. In other news, you've just helped ensure that LITERALLY EVERYONE IS GOING TO DIE. Because at this point Rose did not know that Rey was coming with the Falcon to help. She didn't know Luke was going to stall the First Order. All she knew was that their one job was to stop the First Order from breaking down the front door, because that was the Resistance's last line of defense. And she helped stop their only hope of destroying the laser.

I mean, I was happy that Finn survived, and that they get to have a happy life together. I'm just not happy with the method used to make it so that it could happen.

At the end of the day though, I really liked their interactions. They helped show us viewers new parts of the galaxy, as well as help bring some hope to a group of people we see later in the ending minute of the film.

Closing thoughts: I really liked what they did with Ben/Kylo's character. I liked how they showed that he was conflicted, with his hesitancy to kill Leia, and his conflict with Snoke. I was legitimately unsure about whether he would turn, and I really liked that. I liked how they lightly introduced new lore, but still left room for mystery. The light speed scene was awesome, though it raises a few questions about why it isn't done more often. I also really liked Yoda's appearance, and the message he gave. I'm curious about how the story will go from here.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I liked it well enough. I wouldn't call it great or bad. I feel it tried a lot more risky things than TFA and often when those worked it worked really really well. TFA didn't try nearly as hard to be original or interesting but was considerably more consistent in quality throughout, lacking some of the bigger slumps that Last Jedi has. If I had to pick I'd say I prefer the Last Jedi over TFA but I'm not sure I would overall consider it a "better" film, just one that better suits my tastes.

On 1/11/2018 at 7:51 AM, Del-light-full said:

Also, I assumed the Knights of Ren were the other students who left with Kylo, but youre all saying they're the guys Rey and Kylo fought after killing Snoke. So.....huh?

Rian Johnson has confirmed that those were not the knights of Ren. I don't think it's been outright confirmed that the knights of Ren are the other students who left with Kylo but there is reasonably strong reason to think that they are and little reason to think they aren't.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Witness the end of the resistance," Snoke breathed, sadistic glee burning in his eyes. "See the transports carrying your friends burst into flame, one by one. That's two of them at once... now three... now four... now a five six seven eight...!"

Upbeat jazz music began playing from all corners of the red throne room, guards leaping into a choreographed routine as the Supreme Leader produced a cane, top hat, and tap dancing shoes out of nowhere. Rey watched the spectacle with horror and confusion. Kylo Ren sighed and rubbed the bridge of his nose.

6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.