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[OB] Kelsier vs Kaladin

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Spoiler

Who would win between Kelsier and Kaladin? We can take both pre-deth and resurrected kelsier. Also Vin vs Kaladin? 

Mistborn Spoilers 

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I think there’s a WOB about this sayin in the battlefield Kaladin would win but Kelsir and Vin would win since they would just kill you in your sleep. 

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Secret History spoilers: 

Spoiler

Resurrected Kell would destroy Kaladin, since he is a Fullborn. 

 

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In a battle to the death, Kaladin would win...

Kelsier is already dead! :D;):rolleyes:

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Kaladin in a fair fight. Kelsier would cut his throat in his sleep though.

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Kelsier whoops that wind walking behind.

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What about this? 

Spoiler

Fullborn kelsier vs Waxillium with the bands of mourning fully charged?

 

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A Mistborn burning atium is basically impossible to defeat.

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2 minutes ago, RShara said:

A Mistborn burning atium is basically impossible to defeat.

^^^This^^^

Also, I hate to say it, but Kal is a little emotionally fragile, a strong soothing might make him just give up.

Also, lets not forget the time Vin split a man in half, I don't think stormlight could heal that. Fun question though, if it could, would you end up with 2 Kaladins?

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Nah, it'd be whichever part managed to hang on to his spiritweb.

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Do you think it would be possible to split the spirit evenly? So that there are two different parts,  essentially two of the same person?

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I think that would be very difficult.  The person sees themselves as one being.  They'd have to see themselves as two separate, identical beings at the moment that they're split, strongly enough to change their spiritweb.  Seems unlikely.

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Is there something that somehow suggests that this is what happened to adonalsuim to create the shards?

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7 hours ago, RShara said:

A Mistborn burning atium is basically impossible to defeat.

I wonder, could Renarin defeat an Atium-burning MIstborn with his visions. When he was Seeing things at the same time as Odium, then they didn't come true, like Dalinar's denying Odium, or Jasnah's mercy towards Renarin. 

If Renarin can learn to simultaneously fight while having his visions, he could probably stand a change against someone burning Atium. 

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His visions weren't like that, though.  They were of specific events, not what a person near him is intending to do.  So it wouldn't help much for him to be having a vision of Jasnah while Malata tries to kill him or something.

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First, I acknowledge that I am heavily biased towards Kaladin and know nothing of post-death Kelsier. That said...

7 hours ago, Messremb said:

Also, I hate to say it, but Kal is a little emotionally fragile, a strong soothing might make him just give up.

...doesn't investure resist investure? Kaladin should be immune to soothing so long as he has Stormlight, right?

7 hours ago, RShara said:

A Mistborn burning atium is basically impossible to defeat.

How much precognition does Atium give? I'm not so biased that I think Stormlight enhanced speed will win out there but it should at least dull the effect somewhat. It does me no good to know a bullet is coming towards me if I am physically incapable of moving out of the way in time, or if I am fast enough to move but there are a lot of bullets Sylblades so that I can do little else but dodge the OP insta-kill-sword.

And Kaladin's win condition is a heck of a lot easier to obtain than his opponent's.

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12 minutes ago, Elanmorin said:

Kaladin should be immune to soothing so long as he has Stormlight, right?

Not immune, resistant, and it would depend a great deal on the skill of the soother and how alerted Kaladin is to it. Breeze could have had a field day with Kaladin without him even blinking in surprise. Kelsier on the other hand, lacks such subtlety at the times we've seen him employ soothing. He has had a long time to practice though.

17 minutes ago, Elanmorin said:

How much precognition does Atium give?

A few seconds. It's generally long enough to give someone burning it time to move out of the path of a bullet or a blow. Now, here's an interesting conundrum - does Renarin negate the power of burning Atium?

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https://wob.coppermind.net/events/34-arcanum-unbounded-seattle-signing/#e5720

Quote

Questioner

Is there one magic system that is, like, the one that would win all the battles?

Brandon Sanderson

So, the thing is, they have their strengths and weaknesses. All of the surgebinders are really hard to kill while they have access to Stormlight and that's a huge advantage. But a mistborn is way more versatile, they have access to more powers, and things like that. So it really depends how much of each do you have, how many times does the mistborn have to kill the Bondsmith; a Bondsmith's not going to do a great job in a fight because...I mean Dalinar would coz he's Dalinar, but the powers do not lend themselves to combat in the same way that windrunning does, and things like that, so...

So it's pretty up in the air, depends on who's fighting who.  Atium gives at least several seconds.  It also gives you faster reflexes so that you can act on that knowledge.  I don't know if we've seen someone with atium dodge bullets, but coinshots can get their metal projectiles moving fairly fast.  I can't think that even a Shardblade would move much faster than that. 

Edited by RShara
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Kelsier's pewter is close enough to stormlight in stats that I'm going to call it a draw, although pewter is probably a bit stronger and stormlight a bit faster. Kaladin is a far better fighter if it goes hand to hand, but kelsier will probably not want it to go hand to hand once he sees that, or if they start with any prior knowledge of each other.

Kelsier could also keep his distance and shoot steel projectiles. Kaladin has a counter to that with his reverse lashings, but if they're fighting in the air that won't be an option. And they'll definitely be fighting in he air. As soon as Kelsier's first jump, Kaladin's mind will go THE SKY IS MINE THE WINDS ARE MINE and he'll have to stay in the air even after he gets shot full of coins, because if he lands it just makes it easier for Kelsier.

Kaladin is more mobile in the air, but Kelsier has a reliable ranged attack and atium to make up for it. In the air he also doesn't really need to burn pewter, meaning that he'll be conserving his metal reserves and prolonging his already pretty large endurance advantage. I think the only way for Kaladin to win this fight is to end it fast with the shardblade, and Kelsier's Atium will prevent that. I predict it will turn into an aerial fight, which favors Kelsier because of the higher average distance from each other so he can abuse steel and iron.

 

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No matter who would win (I love them both and their abilities) I wanna see that fight happening.

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atium burns too fast to be of use in a prolonged fight, and don't forget about the other lashings (arrows and the shield from WoK) painting the floor or other objects with storm light and no mistborn would be able to move, and when all is said and done kaladin could with enough storm light effectively throw a boulder faster than a bullet with enough lashings. a mistborn needs metal every object is a potential bullet to a wind runner, the real problem is kaladin can kill unless he is protecting. mistborn have no checks on their power

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I think there are three main problems:

  1. People on Roshar wear metal stuff
  2. Mistborn are highly mobile
  3. Mistborn can attack from range

The ideal strategy for a mistborn would be to keep distance from the windrunner by pushing on metal in their clothing (i.e. Kaladin wears a metal dagger) and using their own pushes/pulls while continuously pelting their opponent with metal to force them to use stormlight to heal. Once their stormlight runs out, the mistborn wins without difficulty - though engaging at close quarters is probably still a really bad idea due to shard blades. This dynamic might change once Kaladin gets his armor, though - I doubt a mistborn could push on him then.

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We really need Brandon to just write the scene even if it's non-canon.

...Then again, he'd probably turn it into a draw.

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If we are talking straight up fight where neither side has the element of surprise then I think Kal would win UNLESS

1. Kelsier has Atium. We know for a fact that Atium lets you see a few seconds into the future and enhances your mind and reflexes to process the additional information. Thats easily a big enough advantage for Kelsier to win even if he had enough for only a short fight.

2. Secret History Spoilers

Spoiler

We are talking post death Kelsier as a fullborn. I back a fullborn with his metalminds over any non-shard and I think we can count on Kel not being caught without his metalminds

In any other situation Kelsier would probably lose unless he could outlast Kaladins stormlight with his metal reserves intact but I doubt he would manage it.

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