[OB] Adonalsiumspren and Nahel Bond?

[NotBurtReynolds]

Any chance we see an adonalsiumspren existing outside the 10 orders, bond someone? Would this grant them all surges? Is this a ridiculous question and not just because that would make one person way too powerful?

[DocHoliday]

No.

Edit: I decided the laconic fell flat.

Adonalasium Spren exist, but to our knowledge don't form Nahel-bonds.

Edited December 7, 2017 by DocHoliday

[Blazenella]

 

Quote

 

mooglefrooglian

Could Honor have made an Honorblade granting all the Surges at once, rather than just two? If so, why didn't he do that?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO.

 

Here's a little tidbit of info

[Blazenella]

45 minutes ago, NotBurtReynolds said:

and not just because that would make one person way too powerful?

You realize that this is what Yelig-Nar does? You swallow a gemstone with Yelig-Narin it, and if you can control it gain access to all 10 surges

[Heretic]

2 minutes ago, Blazenella said:

 

Here's a little tidbit of info

Maybe it’s the Dawnshards? That could be what makes them such powerful weapons

[Oberyn]

This topic is making me wonder what kind of interesting things Dalinar might be able to create because he has more of honor than former bondsmiths.

Could he create an 10 surge honorblade? Can he create new spren? Can he even create new KR orders? He said to the stormfather himself that they are something new, maybe he can change the system to more than 10 surges(even if it the number for Roshar) or new surge combos?

Also isn't there a WoB somewhere that said that the vessel can interpret the meaning of the shard in a different way?

[aemetha]

9 minutes ago, Oberyn said:

Also isn't there a WoB somewhere that said that the vessel can interpret the meaning of the shard in a different way?

Yes there are several, and they can sort of do that. They cannot change the intent of a shard, but they can interpret the intent differently. The intent is filtered through the vessels point of view or interpretation of the intent. Exactly how profoundly the outcome of this is modified is highly debatable.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/256-oathbringer-london-signing/#e8685

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Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

We know <Ati chose how Ruin was interpreted, in that he was> a card-cackling maniac. Could someone so differently interpret a Shard as to change its name to be something different? Could someone pick up the Shard of Ruin and think I'm the Shard of Change?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes. To an extent. The interpretation, what you call a thing... I think it would be arguable either way in-world, regardless of what they call themselves. There are those who would say the core intent is still there and you can't shift it that far, and others would argue you can shift it far enough to change the definition to a synonym. You see evidence of someone claiming this in the books. I'm not gonna confirm or deny for you whether that is actually a thing or not.

 

[Erunion]

This is likely what’s going on with Odium/Passion. 

Shard intent originally something to do with justice/wrath/righteous anger. Through the lense of Rayse, it became Odioum - but Rayse himself claims it’s just passion. 

Or maybe we’ve been deceived.... or maybe there’s more to it. 

[Heretic]

16 minutes ago, Ookla the Idiopathic said:

This is likely what’s going on with Odium/Passion. 

Shard intent originally something to do with justice/wrath/righteous anger. Through the lense of Rayse, it became Odioum - but Rayse himself claims it’s just passion. 

Or maybe we’ve been deceived.... or maybe there’s more to it. 

There’s always another secret

[NotBurtReynolds]

I shouldve written a better question;).. I know that we haven’t had an adonalasiumspren with a Nahel bond yet, I was thinking more in the lines of, would Brandon put a great spren outside of the 10 that could bond and be a kind of super Radiant a la a Mistborn. Or would that be seen as too much of a cheat code addition? Now that I know that there’s an Unmade who can do the same, Im more likely to think we’ll have a human doing the same

[NotBurtReynolds]

17 hours ago, Blazenella said:

You realize that this is what Yelig-Nar does? You swallow a gemstone with Yelig-Narin it, and if you can control it gain access to all 10 surges

Is their any evidence to this besides the epigraph where it says “Yelig-Nar had great powers, perhaps all the surges compounded into one.”? Because we saw 2 people bonded with YN and neither seemed to be using surges.  Is this because they hadn’t been bonded long enough to understand using them? 

[Blazenella]

26 minutes ago, NotBurtReynolds said:

Is their any evidence to this besides the epigraph where it says “Yelig-Nar had great powers, perhaps all the surges compounded into one.”? Because we saw 2 people bonded with YN and neither seemed to be using surges.  Is this because they hadn’t been bonded long enough to understand using them? 

We see Amaram use quite a few. We see Tension (Or Cohesion), Abrasion, what appears to be a lashing, Soulcasting or Division (He sets the air on fire), so he has acces to more than one surge for sure.

[NotBurtReynolds]

1 minute ago, Blazenella said:

We see Amaram use quite a few. We see Tension (Or Cohesion), Abrasion, what appears to be a lashing, Soulcasting or Division (He sets the air on fire), so he has acces to more than one surge for sure.

Thank you. Hadn’t combed over the Amaram part yet on the reread. 

[NotBurtReynolds]

I guess I just don’t understand why he fought the way he did if he had full control of 10 surges? Why use Shardblades and shardbows? Why not overwhelm with surges?I get him not being a master of all of them quickly, but why only use 3 when you have 10?  It feels like a Mistborn fighting with swords and shields.  But regardless, I still don’t think an UmMade with 10 surges means we’ll see a human with mastery of all. Perhaps, just don’t think it’s a given. 

[Knight Oblivion]

17 minutes ago, NotBurtReynolds said:

I guess I just don’t understand why he fought the way he did if he had full control of 10 surges? Why use Shardblades and shardbows? Why not overwhelm with surges?I get him not being a master of all of them quickly, but why only use 3 when you have 10?  It feels like a Mistborn fighting with swords and shields.  But regardless, I still don’t think an UmMade with 10 surges means we’ll see a human with mastery of all. Perhaps, just don’t think it’s a given. 

It makes sense that he doesn't just use surgebinding. Amaram literally just gained access to the surges during the battle. Much of what he does with them seems more instinctual than not. He'd be more well versed in fighting with shards than surges, new at incorporating them in his fighting skill set.

[Wandering Investor]

Amaram just received Yelig-nar and the surges. So he both had to experiment/learn with the surges, while fighting Yelig-nar, and while fighting Kalidin. So that's probably why he didn't use all ten, he didn't know how and instead had to rely on his sword experience to fight Brightlord Broodingeyes.

[Naurock]

19 minutes ago, NotBurtReynolds said:

I guess I just don’t understand why he fought the way he did if he had full control of 10 surges? Why use Shardblades and shardbows? Why not overwhelm with surges?I get him not being a master of all of them quickly, but why only use 3 when you have 10?  It feels like a Mistborn fighting with swords and shields.  But regardless, I still don’t think an UmMade with 10 surges means we’ll see a human with mastery of all. Perhaps, just don’t think it’s a given. 

It took Kaladin pretty much half a book to master the basic lashing on himself. I think Amaram was still fusing with the Unmade and wasn't completely done, but since he still had his own personality he was more likely to rely on battling the way he knows. Plus he seemed to be enjoying taunting Kaladin.

[NotBurtReynolds]

Thanks for the thoughts everyone.

[Stormrunner1730]

4 hours ago, NotBurtReynolds said:

I guess I just don’t understand why he fought the way he did if he had full control of 10 surges? Why use Shardblades and shardbows? Why not overwhelm with surges?I get him not being a master of all of them quickly, but why only use 3 when you have 10?  It feels like a Mistborn fighting with swords and shields.  But regardless, I still don’t think an UmMade with 10 surges means we’ll see a human with mastery of all. Perhaps, just don’t think it’s a given. 

The Shin trained with all of the Honorblades (well, except for Taln's, but they would have had access to his Surges through two other Blades).  So I bet there are quite a few Shin who at least know how to use all ten Surges (Szeth being one of them, per one of his POV chapters). 

Whether we'll see one with mastery of all ten actually have access to all ten at once remains to be seen.  Amaram would have been making educated guesses about some of the Surges after being taken over by Yelig-nar.  He also wouldn't have been in his right mind.  I do think we'll see someone with the skill, knowledge, and access to all ten of the Surges by the end of the series though.  I think the fact that Brandon RAFOd a question about Honor choosing to split up the Surges in the Honorblades is a big clue to this.

[Rainier]

What's a spren? A living idea. Some of these living ideas can have ideas of their own, and these spren are the ones that bond humans.

I don't see how or why we'd have Adonalsiumspren, because spren are a manifestation of the shards in the system, not some universal truth to the Cosmere. Furthermore, there aren't enough people with the idea of Adonalsium to make a living idea. 

Now, that doesn't mean there aren't various shards of Adonalsium beyond the 16 main shards (I'm thinking very tiny, like splinters or droplets), but Adonalsiumspren doesn't make sense to me.

[NotBurtReynolds]

I believe adonalasiumspren have been confirmed by Brandon. Don’t have time to find wob right now

[Rainier]

1 hour ago, NotBurtReynolds said:

I believe adonalasiumspren have been confirmed by Brandon. Don’t have time to find wob right now

I'd love to see this, because while I'm actually anticipating additional 'hidden' shards of Adonalsium floating around, I'm less thrilled about describing them as spren any more than I'd describe them as mistwraiths or seons. 

[Varenus]

3 hours ago, Rainier said:

because spren are a manifestation of the shards in the system

 

Pretty sure that  spren existed before the arrival of any shards on Roshar. Unless greatshells didn't exist and the Parshendi didn't have forms before the shattering, which I doubt. So, wouldn't those spren that greatshells bond and the lesser spren Parshendi bond count as "adonalsiumspren" because Adonalsium made them? Granted, they aren't powerful spren like Stormpappy, but they should still count. 

Also,  Shards have to work within the system of a shardplanet and can only make a system from scratch if they have made the whole planet(like Scadrial). Yes, there is wiggle room allowing for the Shards to make their own spren types, but for the most part the shards on Roshar are bound by what has already been done by Adonalsium on Roshar. Therefore its a reasonable assumption that spren existed before any Shards made their way to Roshar because spren bonds are a central focus of magic on Roshar. 

[BeskarKomrk]

There were certainly spren on Roshar before the Shattering of Adonalsium. However, after the Shattering all Investiture in the Cosmere was assigned to one of the sixteen Shards (source: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/256-oathbringer-london-signing/#e8605. So while there may originally have been adonalsiumspren, I don't think the qualify anymore.