[OB] How old is Azure? (and other speculation)

[Calyx]

I believe Azure is mentioned as appearing around 30.

Of course, Azure is Vivenna, making her a world hopper. This brings up several questions:

1. Do we know the relative time between Warbreaker and Oathbringer?
2. How long has Vivenna been on Roshar?
3. Has Vivenna achieved the fifth heightening?

Vivenna obviously has a decent amount of breath, and certainly seems to use awakenings; her cloak was wrapped around her arm while fighting, and she asked the Honorspren on the ship to cut cloth into presumably human shape before the fused attacked (one a side note, I would have really liked to see that battle). I think it is likely that she has the fifth heightening, making her ageless. 

Then there are questions about why world hoppers from Nalthis are on Roshar. Certainly Nalthians are relatively common for world hoppers, as the lighthouse keeper initially assumes that Kaladin - who is invested - is Nalthian (asking him what heightening he is). Vivenna is on Roshar to find Nightblood (presumably to ensure it can't be used - I think Nightblood tells Szeth that Vivenna never drew him even once when she carried him). Was Nightblood brought to Roshar by Vasher? Why? If so, how was it lost and why is Vasher just a swordmaster?

Vivenna is a character that I really love, and it was great to see how she has grown between Warbreaker and Oathbringer. She is now clearly formidable, which is where I feel that her arc was heading. Now that Szeth - who seems fairly responsible, to be honest - has nightblood, what do people think Vivenna will do when she catches up? Will she come into conflict with Dalinar et al? What role will she and Vasher play in the broader Stormlight series?

 

[Ryder]

I'm having trouble finding a good source for this, but IIRC Warbreaker happens at around the same time as the first mistborn trilogy.  Then the Wax and Wayne books take place about 300 years after the Catacendre and are happening during the time jump between stormlight books 5 and 6.  That puts Azure as somewhere between 250-300 years old at this point I think.

Also, Vivenna mentions while they're in Shadesmar that she arrived on Roshar about a year ago.  We do know that Vasher arrived on Roshar with Nightblood, and then they got separated somehow afterwards.  Vasher came to Roshar mainly because it's easier for him to get stormlight than breath.

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Questioner

So assuming you have mentioned that it is technically possible to be able to use one magic system on another planet from a different one...

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Is it possible to fuel that... Like, say could you fuel Awakening using Stormlight, or do you have to bring Breaths?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, you could!

Questioner

Okay.

Brandon Sanderson

Excellent question. Now it's-- there are tricks to making it happen on each world. Some are easier than others, but yes you can.

Questioner

So could that allow a loophole to maybe... convert from one form of power to another? Or like from Stormlight to Breath?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. In fact, that's part of why Vasher--

Questioner

Vasher. I wondered that.

Brandon Sanderson

--is on Roshar, is because it's a lot easier to get Stormlight than Breath.

 

[Blazenella]

We know that Vasher had gone to Roshar (Before the Many-War) so maybe that's where Peacegivers treasure (Over 10,000 Breaths) came from.

Also, Vivenna says she's looking for a sword (Nightblood) and a criminal, the one who took him to Roshar. She also tells Kaladin/Adolin to warn Zahel she's looking for him.

[Knight Oblivion]

Let's see, Vivenna is 22 at the start of Warbreaker if I remember correctly. Also, if I remember correctly, Warbreaker takes place between Mistborn Era 1 and WoK with it being much closer to the Catacendre. Mistborn Era 1 takes place about 345 years before Era 2 which is situated somewhere in the roughly 15 years between the two arcs of the Stormlight Archive. I'm on mobile right now so I'm having trouble finding a more exact time that Warbreaker takes place.

 

However, assuming that Warbreaker happens within 40 years of Mistborn Era 1 (sounds aboutright with regard to my vague recollection but, again, having trouble finding things since I'm on my phone) we can get a decent range. Taking the uncertainties into account (a roughly 55 year uncertainty) we get a range of 327 to 382.

 

This is by no means perfect however. Beside the assumptions made above, it does not take into account the timespan from the end of Oathbringer to Stormlight 5. It also does not account for differences between the Nalthian, Scadrian, and Rosharan years. 

[aemetha]

Judging Vivenna's age by the passage of time between Warbreaker and Oathbringer probably won't cut it because time can get funky when world hopping.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/3-firefight-chicago-signing/#e37

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Questioner

Can worldhoppers travel forwards and backwards in time or are they stuck going forward?

Brandon Sanderson

They are stuck going forward. Good question.

Questioner

So Hoid has to move in a straight line?

Brandon Sanderson

He has to move in a straight line. It can squish-- stretch or squish that line but he can't go back along the line.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/223-words-of-radiance-seattle-signing/#e6259

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Questioner

See *inaudible* and other signings that Hoid had both long life and lived through time when we was worldhopping, how about other members-- or not "other," just members of the Seventeenth Shard? Like are they time travelling or they have long life--

Brandon Sanderson

It is a mixture of both. Either, or, and.

Questioner

And the RAFO question: where did they get it from?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO! There are many methods and there is no one method, and you know some of them already.

 

[YungDankBlast]

I'm sorry I think I must have missed something somewhere, but... how are we sure that Azure is Vivenna?  It makes sense to me, I'm just curious as to how we are certain of that.

[Calderis]

10 minutes ago, CayJoBla said:

I'm sorry I think I must have missed something somewhere, but... how are we sure that Azure is Vivenna?  It makes sense to me, I'm just curious as to how we are certain of that.

Basically because Brandon told us ahead of time that she's in OB. 

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Questioner (paraphrased)

What happened to Vivenna?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

She's looking for Vasher. Keep your eyes wide open when reading Oathbringer.

 

[RShara]

I don't think we have a fixed time for how long before Mistborn Era 1 that Warbreaker happens, other than it's somewhere less than 300 years.  It could be 10 or 50 or 300.  Vivenna's been on Roshar about a year, give or take.  She says this while they're traveling in Shadesmar.

[YungDankBlast]

10 hours ago, Calderis said:

Basically because Brandon told us ahead of time that she's in OB. 

Ah, okay thanks.

[Vortaan]

She also can't be Fifth Heightening. That's extremely noticeable even to people without any Breath. She's probably First or Second, if she hasn't gained any new Breath since the end of Warbreaker. She might be keeping Breath in her clothing to keep it from being noticeable, but Fifth Heightening is a lot of Breath and she had absolutely no resources at the end of Warbreaker to buy any more.

[RShara]

1 minute ago, Vortaan said:

She also can't be Fifth Heightening. That's extremely noticeable even to people without any Breath. She's probably First or Second, if she hasn't gained any new Breath since the end of Warbreaker. She might be keeping Breath in her clothing to keep it from being noticeable, but Fifth Heightening is a lot of Breath and she had absolutely no resources at the end of Warbreaker to buy any more.

Other than being the sister-in-law of the guy with 10,000+ Breaths

[Vortaan]

Just now, RShara said:

Other than being the sister-in-law of the guy with 10,000+ Breaths

Valid point. But fifth heightening is 2000 of those. Pretty sure Susebron, nice as he is, wouldn't give that up. Maybe to Vasher, but Vasher doesn't seem to have much Breath at all

[aemetha]

Speculating on the age of a worldhopper is always going to be extremely difficult if we aren't explicitly told how old they are. You can't even measure the time between books because of worldhopper time shenanigans. If they move forward through time, can it be said they lived those years?

17 minutes ago, RShara said:

Other than being the sister-in-law of the guy with 10,000+ Breaths

I've been wondering if this is what the criminal she is chasing stole since she mentioned it (Nightblood seems too obvious to me). Regardless, I don't think we can take it for granted that she doesn't have 2000 breaths because she hangs out with a guy who has a definite talent for acquiring more breaths.

[Nymeros]

Biologically? Early 30s.

[JamesMc6]

On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 0:41 PM, Ryder said:

We do know that Vasher arrived on Roshar with Nightblood, and then they got separated somehow afterwards.

Is there a WoB for this? I've always had the impression Vasher left Nightblood with Vivenna before he left Nalthis for Roshar. So, "Azure" is chasing whomever stole Nightblood from her and took it to Roshar. Sort of following her own bounty. Mraise maybe? Yes, Azure is looking for Zahel, but not necessarily because she thinks he has nightblood. In fact, I think she needs to recover Nightblood before she can return it to Warbreaker the Peaceful. (Been waiting to use that name.)

Or, there is a WoB that explains this and my speculation is for naught.

[aemetha]

4 minutes ago, Brightlord Brooding Eyes said:

Is there a WoB for this?

All the WoB's I've seen on the subject are Brandon saying it will be explored in a future book. I have not seen anything suggesting Vasher brought Nightblood to Roshar. Vivenna doesn't even seem that interested in looking for Vasher, so I personally doubt he was the one who brought Nightblood there.

[JamesMc6]

1 minute ago, aemetha said:

All the WoB's I've seen on the subject are Brandon saying it will be explored in a future book. I have not seen anything suggesting Vasher brought Nightblood to Roshar. Vivenna doesn't even seem that interested in looking for Vasher, so I personally doubt he was the one who brought Nightblood there.

Okay, cool so all my speculation isn't for naught.

[Ryder]

@Brightlord Brooding Eyes and @aemetha, here’s the WoB I’m basing my earlier comment on: 

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AllomancerSam (paraphrased)

Were Vasher and Nightblood were separated before or after coming to Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

After hesitating for a minute, he said that they were separated after.

 

Edited December 19, 2017 by Ryder

[JamesMc6]

8 hours ago, Ryder said:

here’s the WoB I’m basing my earlier comment on: 

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AllomancerSam (paraphrased)

Were Vasher and Nightblood were separated before or after coming to Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

After hesitating for a minute, he said that they were separated after.

Got it. Thank you, @Ryder! So there is much more to be discovered about Nightblood's adventures on Roshar.