(OB) Most Disliked Stormlight Character

[CosmicSieve]

I voted other. I just don't enjoy Mraize, I find him to be grating. 

[Toaster Retribution]

7 hours ago, CosmicSieve said:

I voted other. I just don't enjoy Mraize, I find him to be grating. 

I think Mraize might be one of the most hated characters after SA4/5. He seems to be a pretty evil person, but just hasnt had the screen-time to show it.

I really like him though. He is a cool character.

[Karger]

I would like to point out that least favorite and disliked are not the same thing.

[InfernalSquid]

Moash somehow kindles an irrational hate in me.

[Honorless]

I voted Other for Hashal and her husband, Matal from WoK: the lighteyes responsible for managing the Bridgecrews

[Aon Tia]

On 9/17/2019 at 10:44 PM, InfernalSquid said:

Moash somehow kindles an irrational hate in me.

I can not think of anything irrational about hating Moash

[Frustration]

I'm utterly appalled that anyone would hate Lift. Lift is the second best Stormlight neigh Cosmere, you know what I will say character that Brandon Sanderson has second to Hoid only.

[Calderis]

7 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

I'm utterly appalled that anyone would hate Lift. Lift is the second best Stormlight neigh Cosmere, you know what I will say character that Brandon Sanderson has second to Hoid only.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. 

Lift is a very well written character. 

She's also obnoxious, and I can't wait for her to grow up. 

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Calderis said:

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. 

Lift is a very well written character. 

She's also obnoxious, and I can't wait for her to grow up. 

Fair enough though you have to admit she is very consistent always want's the same thing even the forms Wyndle takes (#Shardfork) are a reflection of that.

[Vindo]

Im always mixed on Taravangian I think his character is interesting, but don't agree with his actions. I think his big downfall will be hubris. His character trusts the diagram and smarter version of himself too much. Which will lead to his downfall. 

[bxcnch]

I think I know what character I hate the most now: Gavilar. Seriously, there is just nothing likeable about that guy. Everytime that Navani, Jasnah or Dalinar think back to him and complain how much they miss him and how great a king he was, I always find myself gnashing my teeth and rolling my eyes. He was a man who decided to conquer his neighboring nations and unite them under his rule, without any real provocation. He watches with indifference as his brother succumbs to a drug-like bloodlust and doesn't care about his obvious mental instability. He marries a woman he doesn't really love that much, despite his brothers obvious attraction to her - he generally often treated Dalinar as his own personal attack dog, more as a tool than a family member. Even when he turns to philosophy and embraces the Way of Kings, he simultaneously also joins a sect of religious fanatics whose methods are in direct contrast to Nohadon's beliefs. I mean, he wants to bring back the desolations! And unlike Amaram, he probably saw the visions and what the desolations were like! He has everything that is bad about Amaram, without any of the sympathetic traits. His best friend? Torol Sadeas. Dalinar was Sadeas' friend back when he was a bloodthirsty psychopath - Gavilar doesn't have that excuse. Even Amaram disliked Sadeas. Gavilar tries to portray himself as a good and just ruler, while plotting to bring about the end of the world. He's a ruthless, fanatic and machiavellistic megalomaniac, just like Amaram, but at least Amaram had a conscience. Case in point: Remember the scene in OB where Gavilar happily celebrates that his brother seemingly killed the ruler of Rathalas, his wife and his seven-years-old son? Or the scene where he almost threw a tantrum because his brother hadn't really killed said seven-year old? At that point it went from simple dislike to just pure disgust. 

Edited October 24, 2019 by bxcnch

[Config2]

@bxcnch

Totally agree. He is one of my least favorite characters so far. Plus he did something the Jasnah when she was ill as a child. 

I'm excited to get his perspective on his final night in book 5.

[WhiteEmporer]

Just based on general scumbaggery, I chose Sadeas. He just is excellently written as a repulsive, detestable person who makes your skin crawl simply by his prescence. 

Writing-wise, I don't actually hate any of those characters. Sadeas is well-written for the very reason that he's so eminently hateable. Same with Amaram. I even like Moash as a character in the story. I think he fills an important role as a foil for Kaladin, and also for Dalinar in OB.

While I don't think i particularly hate any stormlight character from a writing perspective (Brandon does good characters), the one that irritates me is, believer it or not, Jasnah. But that's mostly because I can't stand condescending people. I admit that she's objectively awesome. But she still grates on me horribly, and I'm waiting for her to finally get knocked down a peg (Brandon has to do it sometime. She can't always win.)

[Toaster Retribution]

On 2019-10-24 at 11:25 PM, bxcnch said:

I think I know what character I hate the most now: Gavilar. Seriously, there is just nothing likeable about that guy. Everytime that Navani, Jasnah or Dalinar think back to him and complain how much they miss him and how great a king he was, I always find myself gnashing my teeth and rolling my eyes. He was a man who decided to conquer his neighboring nations and unite them under his rule, without any real provocation. He watches with indifference as his brother succumbs to a drug-like bloodlust and doesn't care about his obvious mental instability. He marries a woman he doesn't really love that much, despite his brothers obvious attraction to her - he generally often treated Dalinar as his own personal attack dog, more as a tool than a family member. Even when he turns to philosophy and embraces the Way of Kings, he simultaneously also joins a sect of religious fanatics whose methods are in direct contrast to Nohadon's beliefs. I mean, he wants to bring back the desolations! And unlike Amaram, he probably saw the visions and what the desolations were like! He has everything that is bad about Amaram, without any of the sympathetic traits. His best friend? Torol Sadeas. Dalinar was Sadeas' friend back when he was a bloodthirsty psychopath - Gavilar doesn't have that excuse. Even Amaram disliked Sadeas. Gavilar tries to portray himself as a good and just ruler, while plotting to bring about the end of the world. He's a ruthless, fanatic and machiavellistic megalomaniac, just like Amaram, but at least Amaram had a conscience. Case in point: Remember the scene in OB where Gavilar happily celebrates that his brother seemingly killed the ruler of Rathalas, his wife and his seven-years-old son? Or the scene where he almost threw a tantrum because his brother hadn't really killed said seven-year old? At that point it went from simple dislike to just pure disgust. 

I think its hard to judge Gavilar before we know his full motivation. The guy is a riddle, and we will probably not know his full character until book 5. I do seem to recall him hiding alcohol from Dalinar, so he did try to help a little. 

He also gets extra points for throwing the most confusing party in the history of the Cosmere. 
 

@WhiteEmporer Agreed about Jasnah.

[Vissy]

Gavilar knew more than he let on, much more I think. He was clearly into some sort of occult rust. I hope that he'll be sort of redeemed posthumously and that he regretted everything, but right now I really don't like Gavilar. Dude was an cremhole. 

[IcaroRibeiro]

Moash, Roshone and Elhokar. Also Szeth 

Poor Lift, Shallan and Adolin to be on the same poll of the others

Edited October 28, 2019 by IcaroRibeiro

[Aon Tia]

5 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

 I do seem to recall him hiding alcohol from Dalinar, so he did try to help a little. 

Eh.. he did not hide the alcohol... just saying... 

Dalinar drank it all and kept blaming these guys for hiding it.. bcoz he refused to believe that he drank it all...

Although he did seem to care about Dalinar.. 

[ArdentRuby]

Moash and Sadeas were clearly made to be hated, and they are extremely effective in their role. And I think one of the reasons why is because how convinced yet wrong they are.

Although, the character I truly dislike (alongside Moash) is Shallan, mostly in OB, because how much screen time she has, and how boring her chapters were.

In the other books there's no character I dislike actually. Well, maybe Elhokar in most of WR, because he is an idiot.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Tristan_Hollow

[Pathfinder]

On 10/27/2019 at 10:51 AM, WhiteEmporer said:

While I don't think i particularly hate any stormlight character from a writing perspective (Brandon does good characters), the one that irritates me is, believer it or not, Jasnah. But that's mostly because I can't stand condescending people. I admit that she's objectively awesome. But she still grates on me horribly, and I'm waiting for her to finally get knocked down a peg (Brandon has to do it sometime. She can't always win.)

This being a thread where anyone can say anything about any character they dislike, so not posting to say you are wrong to feel the way you do at all. Completely respect that Jasnah does not do it for you. Though since i spent a whole bunch of time writing a long thread on her, I have this obligatory urge to anytime someone dislikes her, to just reference the thread. If you are so inclined, give it a gander. It might give a new perspective on why she acts the way she does. Or it could only further reinforce how you feel, or you could not want to give the thread the time of day. Whatever works best for you. So below is the obligatory tag, whatever you decide, I respect. 

 

On 10/24/2019 at 5:25 PM, bxcnch said:

I think I know what character I hate the most now: Gavilar. Seriously, there is just nothing likeable about that guy. Everytime that Navani, Jasnah or Dalinar think back to him and complain how much they miss him and how great a king he was, I always find myself gnashing my teeth and rolling my eyes. He was a man who decided to conquer his neighboring nations and unite them under his rule, without any real provocation. He watches with indifference as his brother succumbs to a drug-like bloodlust and doesn't care about his obvious mental instability. He marries a woman he doesn't really love that much, despite his brothers obvious attraction to her - he generally often treated Dalinar as his own personal attack dog, more as a tool than a family member. Even when he turns to philosophy and embraces the Way of Kings, he simultaneously also joins a sect of religious fanatics whose methods are in direct contrast to Nohadon's beliefs. I mean, he wants to bring back the desolations! And unlike Amaram, he probably saw the visions and what the desolations were like! He has everything that is bad about Amaram, without any of the sympathetic traits. His best friend? Torol Sadeas. Dalinar was Sadeas' friend back when he was a bloodthirsty psychopath - Gavilar doesn't have that excuse. Even Amaram disliked Sadeas. Gavilar tries to portray himself as a good and just ruler, while plotting to bring about the end of the world. He's a ruthless, fanatic and machiavellistic megalomaniac, just like Amaram, but at least Amaram had a conscience. Case in point: Remember the scene in OB where Gavilar happily celebrates that his brother seemingly killed the ruler of Rathalas, his wife and his seven-years-old son? Or the scene where he almost threw a tantrum because his brother hadn't really killed said seven-year old? At that point it went from simple dislike to just pure disgust. 

Only thing I disagree with is the whole guilty misunderstood Amaram portion. From my reading Amaram was a narcissist that got recruited by a guy who pretty much exemplifies everything he values. Both Gavilar and Amaram worked to bring about the end of the world which would result in untold numbers dying, to prove themselves right. And it is beginning to look like in both cases when they find out they were wrong, instead of trying to fix the issue, they doubled down and kept going. For me, if you genuinely were doing something for good reasons, then when you found out what you were doing was actually wrong and horrific, then you would go "hey i should stop, take responsibility, and try to fix what I did". Not "eh, not my fault. they are the problem, so lets all burn." Though part of that is referencing the reading Brandon did, so I will leave it as vague as possible unless you want me to specify, in which case I will spoiler tag it. 

Edited October 28, 2019 by Pathfinder

[IamSylphrenia]

I have an unpopular opinion on this: my least favorite is Kal. His depression is understandable and it the correct way to write him, but reading his chapters gives me depression. So much so that I have only read his parts of Way Of Kings twice. Is Kal a good charecter? Yes. Do I like him? No

[Justi]

I voted Shallan and I find this so funny her results are with Sadeas and Amaram. When your female lead is on par with bad guys for popularity... This tells you a lot. And I’m a woman btw.
 

I never enjoyed her chapters so mostly I skipped her chapters. But in Oathbringer her story is in everywhere.I want to enjoy from what I read. I don’t want to spend my time with Sanderson’s PR tactics to make her likeable. It is so obvious. I’m sorry but I’m expecting her death spoiler for 4th book before buying the book. If she is not death I’m finished with this series. Normally I would respect writer. It is his choice afterall. But no, enough is enough. Don’t force her on us. 

[Winds Alight]

10 minutes ago, Justi said:

I voted Shallan and I find this so funny her results are with Sadeas and Amaram. When your female lead is on par with bad guys for popularity... This tells you a lot. And I’m a woman btw.
 

I never enjoyed her chapters so mostly I skipped her chapters. But in Oathbringer her story is in everywhere.I want to enjoy from what I read. I don’t want to spend my time with Sanderson’s PR tactics to make her likeable. It is so obvious. I’m sorry but I’m expecting her death spoiler for 4th book before buying the book. If she is not death I’m finished with this series. Normally I would respect writer. It is his choice afterall. But no, enough is enough. Don’t force her on us. 

OK wow. I knew she wasn't the favourite of many people (she wasn't mine during WoK) but that's pretty strong. What's there to hate so much that one would drop the whole series over her?

[Karger]

On 10/24/2019 at 5:25 PM, bxcnch said:

I think I know what character I hate the most now: Gavilar. Seriously, there is just nothing likeable about that guy. Everytime that Navani, Jasnah or Dalinar think back to him and complain how much they miss him and how great a king he was, I always find myself gnashing my teeth and rolling my eyes. He was a man who decided to conquer his neighboring nations and unite them under his rule, without any real provocation. He watches with indifference as his brother succumbs to a drug-like bloodlust and doesn't care about his obvious mental instability. He marries a woman he doesn't really love that much, despite his brothers obvious attraction to her - he generally often treated Dalinar as his own personal attack dog, more as a tool than a family member. Even when he turns to philosophy and embraces the Way of Kings, he simultaneously also joins a sect of religious fanatics whose methods are in direct contrast to Nohadon's beliefs. I mean, he wants to bring back the desolations! And unlike Amaram, he probably saw the visions and what the desolations were like! He has everything that is bad about Amaram, without any of the sympathetic traits. His best friend? Torol Sadeas. Dalinar was Sadeas' friend back when he was a bloodthirsty psychopath - Gavilar doesn't have that excuse. Even Amaram disliked Sadeas. Gavilar tries to portray himself as a good and just ruler, while plotting to bring about the end of the world. He's a ruthless, fanatic and machiavellistic megalomaniac, just like Amaram, but at least Amaram had a conscience. Case in point: Remember the scene in OB where Gavilar happily celebrates that his brother seemingly killed the ruler of Rathalas, his wife and his seven-years-old son? Or the scene where he almost threw a tantrum because his brother hadn't really killed said seven-year old? At that point it went from simple dislike to just pure disgust. 

A few points.  Gavilar's marriage to Navani was politically motivated and Dalinar went to great lengths to keep him from figuring out that he also liked her.  You think the attraction is obvious but up until mid WoKs he is pretty good at making it seem like she annoys him to the point where she can't figure out that he actually likes her.  Gavilar did actually love his brother but he was also kind of a megalomaniac.   However I see this as pitiable more then anything else as it made it difficult for him to have real relationships

Quote

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 27, 2018)
#4 Oct. 27, 2018 Share Copy

 

 

LerasiumMistborn

What was Gavilar's opinion on Dalinar? I can't help myself, but I feel Gavilar saw Dalinar more like an effective tool rather than his brother.

Brandon Sanderson

He DID have affection for his brother, but Gavilar had a tendency to use everyone like tools to further his goals. Including people close to him.

 

#

As to him joining the Sons of Honor we don't actually know what he was up to or what he was getting at yet.  I do agree that the way he treated Navani and Jasnah was contemptible.  However none of this changes that he was in fact a good king.  As to his unprovoked attacking of the other highprinces.  Alethkar was in a constant state of war after the recreance.  It is not like he did not have an ample excuse to attack his neighbors if he wanted it.  Also I would actually hazard that a unified alethkar and Kholin rule has been a net possessive to the average Rosharan citizen.  He was also an important influence on Dalinar's transformation and that has saved the world.  He is of course a problematic figure(most conquerors are) but that does not mean that he is not in some respects worthy of admiration and respect.

[Aon Tia]

5 hours ago, Justi said:

I voted Shallan and I find this so funny her results are with Sadeas and Amaram. When your female lead is on par with bad guys for popularity... This tells you a lot. And I’m a woman btw.
 

I never enjoyed her chapters so mostly I skipped her chapters. But in Oathbringer her story is in everywhere.I want to enjoy from what I read. I don’t want to spend my time with Sanderson’s PR tactics to make her likeable. It is so obvious. I’m sorry but I’m expecting her death spoiler for 4th book before buying the book. If she is not death I’m finished with this series. Normally I would respect writer. It is his choice afterall. But no, enough is enough. Don’t force her on us. 

I don’t really like shallan either as in that she is certainly not my favourite character. But on multiple rereads I may sometimes skip or just skim through her chapters but still I think a lot of people really like her too. Besides, in order to understand her, think from her perspective, she puts a happy face over it and pretends but the truth is that her life has been one of the worst of all the Cosmere characters. She has had a very tough childhood, I can only imagine the kind of scars it leaves on an individual when they don’t feel safe in their own house. When their own mother tries to kill you, your bestfriend (spren) helps you kill your mother and your father protects you and takes the blame. The fear the guilt and trauma! And then, her father became what he became! And she ended up killing her father as well to protect her brother! And still cannot confess to her brothers that she was the reason for everything.. 

All things considered I am actually surprised at how well she manages. But I am not surprised at the troubles that she is facing with her powers. Her illusions are so realistic that she has ended up fracturing her personality even more! Each a coping mechanism!

basically, she may not be my favourite character but I find her very interesting too. Her struggles are very understandable and all in all, do not forget all the things that she achieves..

She is actually quite an incredible character..

Edited November 15, 2019 by The traveller

[Karger]

4 hours ago, Justi said:

I never enjoyed her chapters so mostly I skipped her chapters. But in Oathbringer her story is in everywhere.I want to enjoy from what I read. I don’t want to spend my time with Sanderson’s PR tactics to make her likeable. It is so obvious. I’m sorry but I’m expecting her death spoiler for 4th book before buying the book. If she is not death I’m finished with this series. Normally I would respect writer. It is his choice afterall. But no, enough is enough. Don’t force her on us. 

What PR tactics is he using?  Also everything @The traveller said.