Aminar Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 (edited) I did other. And the answer is Gaz. He's been just kind of there and I want to know why. But until then he just pops up and then is gone. (Second place. Szeth.) Edited December 3, 2017 by Aminar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution Posted December 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 6 minutes ago, aemetha said: Just delete the poll and go with the advice my lecturers always gave. Explain yourself and cite two supporting references for each point. You should also deduct points from peoples opinions if they fail to adhere to correct APA referencing . I understood the first sentence, but you lost me after that. You might be using the wrong APA referencing :-) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aemetha Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 5 minutes ago, Ookla the Toasted said: You might be using the wrong APA referencing :-) Quite right! Here you go. Lecturer, M. Y. (2016). Correct APA referencing. How not to fail an assessment, 1(1), 1-5. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfbeckett Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 I voted Sadeas and Amaram. Moash is a douche as well but at least he acts somewhat openly. Sadeas is a weasel that smiles and shakes your hand while plotting to stab you in the back the minute you turn around while Amaram is the worst kind of hypocrite. 100% glad to see the end of the both of them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelDeath Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 (edited) I voted other because Dalinar wasn't on the list. I think he's boring, self righteous, and commits genocide, but still gets to be the hero. As far as badly written character i would say Lift. I've known many people who are or were homeless teenagers. And Lift is a really bad representation. Also i love Moash. I think he's one of the best done characters. Edited December 3, 2017 by AngelDeath Forgot to add something 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art336 Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 I can scarcely believe that Aminar was the first, and only, to mention Szeth the sociopath as their least favorite. He runs about committing regicide for the first two books hiding behind the convenient lie that "I have no choice but to plunge the world into chaos" which would better read as "Since I'm such a useless bloke, I'm going to kill everyone that is a better man than I am. Oh, and I'm going to use a magical weapon to do so, because I have no power of my own." I realize that some people see the "honor" in his choice of being an assassin, one that doesn't even get paid, much more like a chained hound, but I just see him as a weak willed child with no true character. Oh, and swearing an ideal and following Dalinar all of a sudden does not forgive you your crimes, it's another copout. It'd be like that vegetarian painter, name of Adolf Hitler, giving some pretty pictures to the Jews and saying "Oh, my bad guys." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N006+ard4life Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 I know I'm in the minority here, but I just don't like Kaladin. I dread dread dread reading his chapters. I don't like being in his head. And while I can understand a lot of what he's going through, I don't like reading him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution Posted January 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 1 hour ago, art336 said: I can scarcely believe that Aminar was the first, and only, to mention Szeth the sociopath as their least favorite. He runs about committing regicide for the first two books hiding behind the convenient lie that "I have no choice but to plunge the world into chaos" which would better read as "Since I'm such a useless bloke, I'm going to kill everyone that is a better man than I am. Oh, and I'm going to use a magical weapon to do so, because I have no power of my own." I realize that some people see the "honor" in his choice of being an assassin, one that doesn't even get paid, much more like a chained hound, but I just see him as a weak willed child with no true character. Oh, and swearing an ideal and following Dalinar all of a sudden does not forgive you your crimes, it's another copout. It'd be like that vegetarian painter, name of Adolf Hitler, giving some pretty pictures to the Jews and saying "Oh, my bad guys." Szeth is a coward, and is basically a slave to his culture. He follows their laws and codes in a precise manner, because is he afraid of going against them. He never chose to be an assassin, nor to kill people. In fact, he wants to avoid it. The honor he has lies in that he follows a set group of laws or codes to the end. That is essentially what honor means. It isn't always good. And Szeth is an extremely honorable character. As for his redemption... well, he is fighting for the good side now, and would give his life for Dalinar at this point. I'd say that he is pretty far away from Hitler distributing pictures to jews. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazenella Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 Moash is an obvious #1 but my close second would be Shallan I hated her in WoK and WoR, and she was only ok in OB She has a lot of development to go before I like her 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotbibliophile Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) I had to pick other. Neither of my choices was an option. I cannot decide between Dalinar and Szeth. I hate them both. If their chapters were removed from all the books I would be very happy. I think it is silly to say Szeth is honorable. He knew what he was doing was wrong and he still did it and then he whined that no one was able to stop him. He goes around complaining that his victims keep dying. Dalinar is arrogant, power hungry, self righteous, patronizing, a hypocrite, an alcoholic, and a monster. The worst part for me is that he is patronizing. Well the worst part before OB. Now, after OB, the worst part is that he is a monster and he will never have to pay for his crimes. He and Szeth belong together. Neither will ever pay for their crimes. ETA: I thought of more stuff to hate about Dalinar. He is a bad husband and a very bad father. He is the worse father imaginable without actively beating his children. Edited January 12, 2018 by Greywatch Do not try to get around the swear filter, please. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, wotbibliophile said: I think it is silly to say Szeth is honorable. He knew what he was doing was wrong and he still did it. Honorable =/= Moral. Breaking your word is dishonorable, doing something that's "wrong" is immoral. On to the thread itself, was it ever clarified which sense you mean? If you wanted the character we disliked the most in-world, I can't give you an answer. There aren't really any characters I hate that much. (If I had to choose, it'd be "other," because even if I don't know who it is yet, it's not one of the names up there) If you mean the character we dislike reading about the most, honestly, I have to say Kaladin. He just... isn't that interesting to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotbibliophile Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 @The One Who Connects I really hate Szeth. I do not want to attribute any positive characteristic to him. To be honorable sounds like a positive so I categorically refuse to attribute it to him. In my defense, Szeth fails to honor his orders to kill Dalinar, both times he either runs away or gives up. He does not fulfill this obligation therefore he is not honorable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prelude Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 I found Moash fascinating and one of the few surprises in OB. He is exactly what I want in my villains. When he is on the page no one feels safe which that is the point (to me) of a good villain. I will find his pages easier to reread than several of our “smaller” characters. Odium and Amaram didn’t have the edge I wanted them too. So I’m looking forward to more of Moash. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvisual Haze Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 On 12/2/2017 at 7:28 PM, Necessary Eagle said: By "hated", do you mean that we hate them in-universe, or find them to be badly written? Because those are two very different things. Exactly. If we're talking most loathsome person I vote Taravangian. He is a morally degenerate monster who murders children and the most vulnerable of society all for what he envisions as "the greater good". There is no moral event horizon he will ever shy away from, because the ends will always justify the means. But in the end it won't actually matter though, because as Hoid so succinctly stated, "These are the men...well, these are the men who actually change the world. And they terrify me. For men never see as far as they think they do." I think we can trust the experiences of Hoid on this one, perfectly predicting the future is a fool's game. Even Odium, a god whose shard seems especially talented at seeing into the future, has demonstrated a capacity to be occasionally blindsided by events. Using your best guesses of future events to justify throwing away all moral scruples is monstrous. Taravangian is a fantastically written character though, and I love what depth he adds to the story. If we're talking "detracts the most from my enjoyment of the story", then the sad prize goes to Shallan. It's so strange, because I was really impressed how much she grew as an entertaining and likeable POV character between WoK and WoR. The scene where she inspires the night bandits to transform themselves into better people and try to be heroes again is one of my favorites in the whole series. Oathbringer Shallan/Veil is just dull to me though, her character felt like it was regressing and by the end the Veil-centric chapters especially were just a chore to read. It's not just that her character isn't clicking with me though, she was by wordcount% the most prominent POV character if we don't include the flashbacks. This is Dalinar's book Shallan, stop hogging the present time POV spotlight! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmé Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) I love them all, even the villains! D: I’m going to have to vote Other/Eshonai. She had some interesting scenes in WoR, but I never really got engaged in them. The things she did in Storm Form were also just plain mean. I might have a different impression by the time book 4 is up. Second place is Navani. Just never got into the character. I love Shallan, etc though, and while Moash is evil, I still like his character. Edited January 12, 2018 by Cosmé 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solant Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 I don't have any characters who I didn't enjoy reading, once you understand their motivations, so I'm going to choose based on the characters themselves. Adolins choice to murder Sadeas was completely justified, if only based on the events at the Tower. I mean the man plotted the murder of his army, his friends, his father and himself, and basically promised to continue causing even more trouble. I can't fault his lack of remorse. Shallans arc, while tedious at times, was mostly just to display her rapid decline in mental health, even as her powers grew just as rapidly. Lift I just love. She's eccentric and fun. If I could adopt her, I would. Szeth made a seamless transition from villain to tragic victim of his own overzealous culture to stoic bodyguard. He's probably the most trustworthy one in the whole bunch. Amaram and Moash were presented as contrast to Kaladin and Dalinar, showing us how they might have turned out had they made different choices. Plus, they both showed subtle (and some obvious) influence from Odium, and I can't imagine shardic influence is an easy thing to resist. (I mean, they can't be blamed for it, right? It wasn't their fault, they were forced into it. ). You can include Aesudan in with that. Roshone just seemed like a scared little man as soon as someone stood up to him. Even Mr.T thought he was doing what was best for Roshar. My vote easily goes to Sadeas himself. No secret societies, no shard influence that we know of other than the Thrill. Just an unquenchable desire for wealth and power. The bridge crews, the Tower, the never ending manipulation of the light eyes and the King (who was a Kholin, to boot!) Loved reading about him, couldn't stand em. I am surprised nobody mentioned Mraize, however. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution Posted January 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Solant said: am surprised nobody mentioned Mraize, however. It is because he is awesome. Edited January 12, 2018 by Toaster Retribution 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorkel Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 Lopen. He's annoyingly happy and weird! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShardplateJoe III Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 My vote goes to Shallan, I just really do not like her. There were some moments that I enjoyed of her in Oathrbinger, especially with her interactions with Wit, but throughout Stormlight, I have dreaded getting to her pov's, especially during rereads. I will say, I LOVED Dalinar's story in Oathbringer. 12 hours ago, wotbibliophile said: Dalinar is arrogant, power hungry, self righteous, patronizing, a hypocrite, an alcoholic, and a monster. The worst part for me is that he is patronizing. Well the worst part before OB. Now, after OB, the worst part is that he is a monster and he will never have to pay for his crimes. He and Szeth belong together. Neither will ever pay for their crimes. I think that is the point. There is a big difference between is and was. I'm sure you could find an example of people who have done bad things in the past that they disavow now and do not do, and people who now do things they said they would never do. Is is not was. Dalinar was a monster-- but he would never repeat a Rathalas, Dalinar was an alcoholic-- but he now adheres to the codes, is patronizing, arrogant, and acknowledges that he hates giving up power-- but I do not think Dalinar ever was a hypocrite. In the past, when Dalinar did his monstrous deeds, he openly acknowledged that he wanted what he wanted and he would get it when he wanted. And he now will decry his former deeds. He recognizes they were wrong and disavows them. That is the difference between a hypocrite and a man improved. A hypocrite will continuously perform deeds they decry, while a repentant man will forsake the crime they now despise. This is not a perfect analyses, obviously. I wrote this while on my break, I did not have time to get into all if the good things Dalinar has done, nor the bad, but ultimately, Dalinar is a better man than he was, and I think that is the point of his whole arc in Oathbringer. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 I voted other and my least favourite character is young Dalinar. Not thinking about what you're doing to others and your family, killing and drinking is one of the worst combinations I could imagine in a human being... Although I quite like what he does in the current timeline. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devout Pathian Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 On 12/3/2017 at 0:04 PM, Stairdweller said: While I don't dislike Lift as a character, I voted for her because I find her kind of irritating. And I'm dreading her becoming a more common viewpoint. Do not want! But I don't hate her. Not like I hated Elayne from WoT. My thoughts also as well. I can't decide if I like or dislike Lift. It depends if she is being irritating at the time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 (edited) On the Dalinar thing... If you choose to believe that a man can't change for the better then everyone is horrible. Absolutely everyone. It's just a matter of magnitude. Everyone changes. Everyone grows. If what we were in the past defined us, and we could never change or be forgiven for our misdeeds, than every human alive would be a walking collection of wrongs. If you look at Dalinar's past, and that doesn't make the current Dalinar seem that much better in contrast... I don't even know. We all have our demons. Keeping someone subject to the past when they are obviously a better person means that the accuser better have an absolutely spotless history, which by the act of living they don't. It's hypocrisy of the highest order. Edited January 12, 2018 by Calderis 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red032 Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 I vote Moash, for he is a serial betrayer. I understand that he is foreshadowing the system that Odium uses to corrupt people, and that will be crucial to understand how and why Dalinar was able to foil the plans to make him a the champion (and how Cultivation had a finger on it - or a tree branch, if you will) Lift is annoying, but I can see that there's a path for her. And that she is the Dungen Master´s own character. That is a RPG term, yeah.... Shalam is a problem. As someone notes here, she grows and learn on one POV and on the next time she getas screentime, she has lost that growth. I hope she estabilizes as hinted on the end of the book. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsterMetroid Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 11 minutes ago, Calderis said: On the Dalinar thing... If you choose to believe that a man can't change for the better then everyone is horrible. Absolutely everyone. It's just a matter of magnitude. Everyone changes. Everyone grows. If what we were in the past defined us, and we could never change or be forgiven for our misdeeds, than every human alive would be a walking collection of wrongs. Agreed!! I really like the contrast that it showed true change in a character. However this is also the reason why I still like and have hope for Moash. He was super focused on making sure that the person who killed his grandparents to pay for his crimes. It caused him to abandon Kaladin and he deeply regrets it and misses Bridge 4. I don't think Moash deserves all the hate that he is getting. P.S. Im really glad there isnt a downvote button cause I'm sure this post would be downvoted to Braize. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ymawgat Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 I super dislike Venli since reading Oathbringer. Pretty much every other character I can tolerate because I can clearly see their role in the story and the reasonings behind their actions, but I've ended up actively hate Venli, mainly because I think we're supposed to like her? Amaram and Sadeas are shown as irredeemable monsters so why are we asked to care about Venli, who's actions are as much if not more destructive and "evil"? Venli caused the deaths of almost all the Parshendi and kick started the 100th desolation all for her own personal gain, and at the end of Oathbringer she's handed a nahel bond and a chance at happiness. Add on to this that she's now taken the place of a much more interesting and likeable Willshaper character I just can't see how or why we're meant to like her? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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