Comby23 Posted December 2, 2017 Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 Hey guys, a few months back when I first joined the Shard I put this question out there in the Cosmere Questions forum: After the epilogue of Oathbringer I grew super excited as something I thought of actually happened in the books (it's a storming rarity!). So, naturally, I'm pretty keen to discuss this. What I'm interested in discussing is: what does this mean for Hoid? How will this restrict him in terms of his worldhopping? We know he appears in MBE2, is the Cryptic with him then? And if so, how easily did he manage to take the Cryptic with him? Further questions I have would be things like: was it a long term plan of Hoid's to develop a Nahel bond? Or was it a "I simply need to stop the Fused getting it" kind of decision? I live in Australia so I won't get the chance to see Brandon anytime soon. But if you will see him and thus interests you too, please ask him about it. Lastly, I am really excited to potentially witness Hoid telling truths to his Cryptic to further the bond. I feel as though we may truly get some information about the elusive being. Plus... potential Hoid shardblade eventually?! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dopey Spren Posted December 2, 2017 Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 15 minutes ago, Comby23 said: Hey guys, a few months back when I first joined the Shard I put this question out there in the Cosmere Questions forum: After the epilogue of Oathbringer I grew super excited as something I thought of actually happened in the books (it's a storming rarity!). So, naturally, I'm pretty keen to discuss this. What I'm interested in discussing is: what does this mean for Hoid? How will this restrict him in terms of his worldhopping? We know he appears in MBE2, is the Cryptic with him then? And if so, how easily did he manage to take the Cryptic with him? Further questions I have would be things like: was it a long term plan of Hoid's to develop a Nahel bond? Or was it a "I simply need to stop the Fused getting it" kind of decision? I live in Australia so I won't get the chance to see Brandon anytime soon. But if you will see him and thus interests you too, please ask him about it. Lastly, I am really excited to potentially witness Hoid telling truths to his Cryptic to further the bond. I feel as though we may truly get some information about the elusive being. Plus... potential Hoid shardblade eventually?! The Cryptic which Hoid has, was originally Elhokar's. Hoid does say that he has many secrets, and he isn't a very nebulous character, so it's possible for him to bond with the spren, feeding it truths, rather than swearing to particular ideals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cenanin Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 9 hours ago, A Dopey Spren said: The Cryptic which Hoid has, was originally Elhokar's. Hoid does say that he has many secrets, and he isn't a very nebulous character, so it's possible for him to bond with the spren, feeding it truths, rather than swearing to particular ideals. I have a problem with this theory. Why couldn't the cryptic just disappear into the cognitive realm? Nothing is keeping him bound to the physical realm. Elhokar literally had not even said the first oath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dopey Spren Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 We know that the Cryptics had been watching Elhokar from previous books. Elhokar started to say the first ideal (and glowing in turn), its possible that this resulted in something? I don't think it's been specified enough in terms of whether he/she could just transfer back to the Cognitive Realm once the Surgebinder -to-be has been killed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cenanin Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 2 hours ago, A Dopey Spren said: We know that the Cryptics had been watching Elhokar from previous books. Elhokar started to say the first ideal (and glowing in turn), its possible that this resulted in something? I don't think it's been specified enough in terms of whether he/she could just transfer back to the Cognitive Realm once the Surgebinder -to-be has been killed off. Yea. You're right. I don't know. But I don't think we have enough information about the cryptic Hoid grabbed to conclude it was Elhokars spren. 1.) We know that when a KR dies their spren "slumbers" 2.) Elhokar hadn't even said the first ideal of all KR, so had he bonded the cryptic? I guess the cryptic was probably waiting around for Elhokar to say the oath if it is Elhokars spren. I just don't think there is enough info, and something implied to me that the parshendi were looking for something ancient in the palace. Or in the ground below it. Something Moash says. I'll look it up in a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikerEZ Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 (edited) 23 hours ago, Cenanin said: Yea. You're right. I don't know. But I don't think we have enough information about the cryptic Hoid grabbed to conclude it was Elhokars spren. 1.) We know that when a KR dies their spren "slumbers" 2.) Elhokar hadn't even said the first ideal of all KR, so had he bonded the cryptic? I guess the cryptic was probably waiting around for Elhokar to say the oath if it is Elhokars spren. I just don't think there is enough info, and something implied to me that the parshendi were looking for something ancient in the palace. Or in the ground below it. Something Moash says. I'll look it up in a bit. When a spren is ready to bond a Radiant, they transition (almost) completely into the Physical Realm, and lose a lot of their memories in the process. I think it's safe to assume that Elhokar wasn't far enough into his bond with the Cryptic so that it'd start getting its memories back, but also wasn't far enough where the bond would actually hurt the spren. So, now this (mostly) mindless spren is stuck in the Physical Realm with no way to return to the Cognitive Realm because it can't even remember how. Also, I doubt there's anything else ancient in the Kholinar palace, there were already three Unmade there, Kholinar has had its fame by now. There's no more need to go there anymore (except to reclaim the Oathgate at some point). Plus, the Singers were destroying the palace only in the area where the spren was. So, I doubt they were trying to find something hidden in the palace by only searching in one spot. Edited December 4, 2017 by Ookla the StrooklaEZ 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyrann Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 6 hours ago, Cenanin said: I have a problem with this theory. Why couldn't the cryptic just disappear into the cognitive realm? Nothing is keeping him bound to the physical realm. Elhokar literally had not even said the first oath. Actually, that is exactly what is happening. If a spren crosses over to the Physical Realm to look for a bond, they can't just go back to the Cognitive Realm anymore. They need to bond someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wintermute Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 I thought it was an interesting choice to have Hoid bond with a Cryptic (assuming he does indeed form a Nahel bond with it), since he already has access to the Yolish version of Lightweaving. I don't know if much is know about the Yolish type or even if it requires Investiture to use, but maybe the Roshar type will be easier for him to use with easy access to Stormlight. Either way, Soulcasting is definitely going to be useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_K1ngs_W1t Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 On the opening night of Oathbringer I asked Brandon ‘If Hoid could bond to any spren, which would he choose and would that spren want to bond to him.’ He gave me a RAFO card, but wrote ‘read Oathbringer’ on the back, implying the answer was answered within the text. So, I stand that Hoid has bonded to this Cryptic. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoidonalsium Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 (edited) 11 hours ago, Cenanin said: I have a problem with this theory. Why couldn't the cryptic just disappear into the cognitive realm? Nothing is keeping him bound to the physical realm. Elhokar literally had not even said the first oath. I got a WoB on this from the Glasgow signing (audio in Arcanum, pending transcription for referencing) Hoidonalsium Is Hoid's Cryptic the one that was meant for Elhokar? Brandon Yes. Hoidonalsium Is there anything more to the Cryptic than Pattern - er, Shallan's Pattern? Brandon There's more to every individual. But it is not a more powerful Cryptic, or anything like that. Edited December 3, 2017 by Hoidonalsium Formatting 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Investor Posted December 3, 2017 Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 Spoiler FirstSelector So if I'm a Surgebinder, I have my own Cognitive entity with me. Can I go off-world with that and will everything continue to work in exactly the same way? Because we've seen Cognitive entities that don't-- Brandon Sanderson So taking a Cognitive entity off-world is hard. So, Surgebinding, if you can find out how to make it happen, remember, the Investiture is keyed to Connection. This is why Kelsier is-- Oh, sorry, spoilers! When a certain somebody *laughter* had trouble getting off Scadrial, because he basically was a spren by that point so--*laughter* ...So, yeah Surgebinding would work off planet, but you'd have to get the spren off-planet first. That's hard to do. Cosmere-wide it's not hard hard but it is-- You'd have to know some stuff. You could learn how. We have a WoB that says taking a spren off world is difficult. Not impossible, but difficult. So it raises the question of how far can the spren and its bonded partner be apart from each other without consequences, or can Hoid find a way to get the spren off-world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dopey Spren Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 6 hours ago, Wandering Investor said: Hide contents FirstSelector So if I'm a Surgebinder, I have my own Cognitive entity with me. Can I go off-world with that and will everything continue to work in exactly the same way? Because we've seen Cognitive entities that don't-- Brandon Sanderson So taking a Cognitive entity off-world is hard. So, Surgebinding, if you can find out how to make it happen, remember, the Investiture is keyed to Connection. This is why Kelsier is-- Oh, sorry, spoilers! When a certain somebody *laughter* had trouble getting off Scadrial, because he basically was a spren by that point so--*laughter* ...So, yeah Surgebinding would work off planet, but you'd have to get the spren off-planet first. That's hard to do. Cosmere-wide it's not hard hard but it is-- You'd have to know some stuff. You could learn how. We have a WoB that says taking a spren off world is difficult. Not impossible, but difficult. So it raises the question of how far can the spren and its bonded partner be apart from each other without consequences, or can Hoid find a way to get the spren off-world. Seeing that it is technically possible, and what we know of Hoid, I'm sure he'll find a solution one way or another! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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