[OB] Secret of Aimia

[Jack33210]

From the Kaza Soulcaster interlude, we found out that the Aimians are guarding the island (or maybe more specifically Akinah?) to prevent people from finding out some secret.

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“After many warnings not to come to this place,” the cook said. “It is rare I must guard it so … aggressively. Men must not again discover this place.” “The gemstones?” Kaza asked, growing more drowsy. “Or … is it something else … something … more…” “I cannot speak,” the cook said, “even to sate a dying demand. There are those who could pull secrets from your soul, and the cost would be the ends of worlds. Sleep now, Soulcaster. This is the most merciful end I could give.”

I also found this mention from one of the epigraphs in Oathbringer:
 

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"I returned to the tower to find squabbling children, instead of proud knights. That’s why I hate this place. I’m going to go chart the hidden undersea caverns of Aimia; find my maps in Akinah."

- From Drawer 16-16, amethyst

 

 

Kaza was around this area while dying slowly from the poison the cook (a disguised Aimian). Her last scene was her soulcasting the ground into smoke and falling through it:
 

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The cremlings began to pick at her hand, taking off her Soulcaster. No … she had one last thing to do.

With a defiant shout, she pressed her hand to the rocky ground beneath her and demanded it change. When it became smoke, she went with it.

 

What are your guys theories about what is going on here? What is this secret that they are hiding?

We know the Aimians have long been allies of the Knights Radiant (unless that changed, but I don't think that's the case"

[RShara]

I think she soulcast the stone into smoke and became smoke, she didn't fall through it.

But I wonder if whatever is binding Odium to the Rosharan system might be there?

[PhineasGage]

8 minutes ago, RShara said:

But I wonder if whatever is binding Odium to the Rosharan system might be there?

Given that "and the cost would be the ends of worlds" is said, it seems likely that there is at least something there.

I suspect that the scouring is more recent than whatever happened when Odium was bound to the Rosharan system by Honor. Mainly because it is implied that the scouring happened only a few generations ago (Axies talks about it in his PoV chapter in Iri) whereas it is implied that Odium was bound when (or possibly before) the Desolations started, because Odium is likely tied to the Oathpact in some way. I think he is gradually slipping free and perhaps killed Honor and thus shattered the Shattered Plains at a later date. It is unclear who did the Scouring of Aimia. I think it is meant to be related to a natural disaster but it is possible that it was done deliberately by eg the Aimians themselves, Cultivation, or perhaps another group like the Skybreakers who want to prevent Odium getting free. It would prevent people getting there - we know at least some of the defences are deliberate, on top of guardians of the island. 

The problem with the timeline is that Dysian Aimians (and it is implies Siah Aimians too) are functionally immortal. Their perception of time may therefore be distorted in comparison with short lived humans. It is also clear that they are native to Roshar, but they don't seem to side with the Listeners/Odium, but it is unclear if they are truly on the side of humans either. Prior to the scouring, people got soulcasters from there and yet even a skilled artifabrian like Navani has no idea how they work suggesting that the Aimians did something truly unique. They are "spying" or gathering information all over Roshar via the Dysian Aimian cremlings, and perhaps Axies is doing more than simply chasing spren.  There are a great many mysteries surrounding them and I don't know that we have enough information to draw any proper conclusions yet.

[Jack33210]

31 minutes ago, PhineasGage said:

Given that "and the cost would be the ends of worlds" is said, it seems likely that there is at least something there.

I suspect that the scouring is more recent than whatever happened when Odium was bound to the Rosharan system by Honor. Mainly because it is implied that the scouring happened only a few generations ago (Axies talks about it in his PoV chapter in Iri) whereas it is implied that Odium was bound when (or possibly before) the Desolations started, because Odium is likely tied to the Oathpact in some way. I think he is gradually slipping free and perhaps killed Honor and thus shattered the Shattered Plains at a later date. It is unclear who did the Scouring of Aimia. I think it is meant to be related to a natural disaster but it is possible that it was done deliberately by eg the Aimians themselves, Cultivation, or perhaps another group like the Skybreakers who want to prevent Odium getting free. It would prevent people getting there - we know at least some of the defences are deliberate, on top of guardians of the island. 

The problem with the timeline is that Dysian Aimians (and it is implies Siah Aimians too) are functionally immortal. Their perception of time may therefore be distorted in comparison with short lived humans. It is also clear that they are native to Roshar, but they don't seem to side with the Listeners/Odium, but it is unclear if they are truly on the side of humans either. Prior to the scouring, people got soulcasters from there and yet even a skilled artifabrian like Navani has no idea how they work suggesting that the Aimians did something truly unique. They are "spying" or gathering information all over Roshar via the Dysian Aimian cremlings, and perhaps Axies is doing more than simply chasing spren.  There are a great many mysteries surrounding them and I don't know that we have enough information to draw any proper conclusions yet.

From an Oathbringer Epigraph:

 

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If I’m correct and my research true, then the question remains. Who is the ninth Unmade? Is it truly Dai-Gonarthis? If so, could their actions have actually caused the complete destruction of Aimia?

—From Hessi’s Mythica, page 307

 

 

[PhineasGage]

2 minutes ago, Jack33210 said:

From an Oathbringer Epigraph:

So this is possible too - but as the epigraphs are written in-world and therefore blinkered by the limitations of the person writing them, they cannot be assumed to be 100% accurate.

It is just as possible that Dai-Gonarthis attempted to access something there and Aimia was destroyed to prevent that happening. Alternatively, Dai Gonarthis was trapped in the caverns under Aimia and during an escape attempt (presumably failed as we haven't seen DaiGonarthis yet afaik) the island was destroyed in someway. There are loads of ways in which Dai-Gonarthis could be implicated but not acting to destroy the island directly. On top of that, it isn't 100% the epigraph has a lot of "ifs" in in. If Daigonarthis is the 9th unmade (does seem reasonable) it might be related to the destruction of Aimia. Given how the word voidbringer has been co-opted, this could be much more subtle than it immediately appears.

[Lord Spiral]

If I remember correctly, the scouring of Amia resulted in the extinction of the Larceryn. Based on what we've seen of Larkin being able to suck in Stormlight and possibly also Voidlight, and that Larkin are baby Larceryn. Is it possible that the gemhearts of Larceryn are perfect gemstones? And that this was the reason why an Unmade went to great lengths to destroy them?

Maybe the underground caverns were succesfully kept hidden, and were kept hidden in order to breed/ cultivate/ guard a perfect gemstones reserve/ prison?

[Dryone_2]

My theory: Dawnshards. They were used to destroy the Tranquiline Halls/Ashyn and there is no way that H+C would have allowed the humans to keep them when they arrived on Roshar.

[ParadoxicalZen]

I'm thinking the treasure trove that is most of the abandoned Shards of the Radiants. Or possibly the Dawnshards. Or possibly more powerful fabrials. Or maybe even a treasure trove of knowledge that could destroy the foundation of everything that is known about Roshar...

Or the recipe for perfecting Chouta

[Toaster Retribution]

3 hours ago, Dryone_2 said:

My theory: Dawnshards. They were used to destroy the Tranquiline Halls/Ashyn and there is no way that H+C would have allowed the humans to keep them when they arrived on Roshar.

This is a good theory. I wonder what part the Dysians and Siah respectively play in this. The Dysian seem to be keeping people away from Akinah, but the Siah? Wonder if they have given up on the protecting of whatever the aimians are hiding?

[Jack33210]

The Dawnshards was a theory I've also heard mentioned by others. 

It's going to be interesting learning how exactly Aimia was destroyed. Arclo in Edgedancer easily handled 2 journeyman Skybreakers and I would assume it would take some pretty powerful tools to get rid of them. 

[TJtheWiz]

17 hours ago, Jack33210 said:

The Dawnshards was a theory I've also heard mentioned by others. 

It's going to be interesting learning how exactly Aimia was destroyed. Arclo in Edgedancer easily handled 2 journeyman Skybreakers and I would assume it would take some pretty powerful tools to get rid of them. 

 

I can't remember where, but I was reading in another thread about the Dysian Aimians and it has been theorized that they were destroyed by fire (so as to kill all the hordelings/cremlings at once, therefore killing the Aimian). To support this, here is a quote from Oathbringer during Dalinar's vision of Aharietiam with Yanagawn that says:

"One spot they passed had a whole heap of strange cremlings, burned and smoking." (Pg. 438)

Also, I'm new to this site, so if anyone can, could you explain how to put book quotes under a quote link/bar?

Edited December 4, 2017 by TJtheWiz

[Rainier]

On 12/1/2017 at 11:52 PM, Jack33210 said:

"Men must not again discover this place.” ... “I cannot speak,” the cook said, “even to sate a dying demand. There are those who could pull secrets from your soul, and the cost would be the ends of worlds."

Count me among those who is thinking Dawnshards, and also thinking that these Dawnshards are what destroyed the previous world of the original humans on Roshar. The plural, ends of worlds, tells me the stakes are much higher than we're giving credit for, and a cache of ancient artifacts with the power to destroy worlds fits that bill.

It seems that Aimia and the Dawnshards are being set up as our next 'level-up' in power as the series continues. 

[Dryone_2]

Another theory on the Dawnshards: I think they must use Odiums power, since they were used by humans when he was their god. Maybe Odium is invested in the Dawnshards, so he is trapped in Roshar as long as the Dawnshards are kept from him?

[The Invested Beard]

5 minutes ago, Dryone_2 said:

Another theory on the Dawnshards: I think they must use Odiums power, since they were used by humans when he was their god. Maybe Odium is invested in the Dawnshards, so he is trapped in Roshar as long as the Dawnshards are kept from him?

I'm not sure that makes sense though. Doesn't the Stormfather tell Dalinar he could use the Dawnshards to defeat Odium if only they still had them? How would you fight a shard with its own power?

[Dryone_2]

I don't remember that. When did SF say that?

[The One Who Connects]

25 minutes ago, Dryone_2 said:

I don't remember that. When did SF say that?

He didn't. It was Tanavast, in one of Honor's pre-recorded visions.

[The Invested Beard]

3 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

He didn't. It was Tanavast, in one of Honor's pre-recorded visions.

That's right I knew it was Honor in one form or another. Still, even more of a direct source.

[aemetha]

I don't think it holds anything that specifically binds Odium, I think there is a simpler explanation for Odiums binding.

Now, we know the oathpact does not specifically bind Odium, but it is involved. We also know that the oathpact binds the voidspren to Braize. I think it works like this.

• Odium must divest himself in order to leave the Roshar system.
• Odium has invested the voidspren.
• The voidspren are bound, preventing Odium from divesting.
• Odium can't really divest during a desolation when the voidspren are unbound because it would basically end the desolation and lead to them immediately being bound again, and consequently his being bound. He has to kill the heralds and end the oathpact in order to divest and move on.

I agree with the idea that it is likely the dawnshards. I think the "one of them will destroy us" could be a foreshadowing of one of the characters taking up the dawnshards. Prophesies are made to be broken, there is no point to them if the events they predict are inevitable, but I do think we'll see one of our main characters in a circumstance where they can acquire and use the dawnshards.

[Jack33210]

8 hours ago, aemetha said:

I agree with the idea that it is likely the dawnshards. I think the "one of them will destroy us" could be a foreshadowing of one of the characters taking up the dawnshards. Prophesies are made to be broken, there is no point to them if the events they predict are inevitable, but I do think we'll see one of our main characters in a circumstance where they can acquire and use the dawnshards.

I thought at first "one of them will destroy us" might have referred to Dalinar as the whole champion stuff. Everybody with some foresight seemed to falsely believe that he would fall to Odium and become his champion. 

 

Preservation even after she prunes him mentioned something along the lines of "Even if you are ultimately his" despite being the one to help him. 

 

But I definitely did reconsider that theory when I was researching about Aimia and the Dawnshards.

[ZenBossanova]

My suspicion is that it was the Skybreakers who scoured Aimia, for similar reasons that they were hunting proto-Radiants. 

I also suspect that the secret has something to do with Odium's imprisonment- they were somehow involved in trapping him. 

That also makes me wonder if the Aimians are also newcomers to Roshar. 

[Jack33210]

9 minutes ago, ZenBossanova said:

My suspicion is that it was the Skybreakers who scoured Aimia, for similar reasons that they were hunting proto-Radiants. 

I also suspect that the secret has something to do with Odium's imprisonment- they were somehow involved in trapping him. 

That also makes me wonder if the Aimians are also newcomers to Roshar. 

I'm not sure they could've handled the Sleepless. Arclo in Edgedancer easily took care of those 2 journeyman Skybreakers. He said something along the lines of them not being able to do any real harm to him. Now with that said (and if it wasn't them), it makes you wonder what actually managed to destroy them. 

[RShara]

Is it possible they scoured Aimia themselves, to protect whatever it is that could cause the ends of worlds?

[echaozh]

The Dysian Aimian separating into cremlings and then regrouping into humanoid, is definitely magical, right? What's the magical system? Cultivation's? How did they come to this? Cremling is local to Roshar, so this ability was acquired on Roshar, unless they can do with any local insect-like animals.

The back cover of OB reads: "We may soon hold surges again, for Radiance has returned to some and shines toward others." Why do they hold surges only when there are human KRs? How can they produce soulcasters? What's the relationship between them and the spren?

Also the moon story, Blue people born by a queen going to the skying and getting pregnant by a blue moon. If the Aimian are not the queen's descendants, then they must have been the moon. They were considered gods by the humans.

My guess would be that the Aimian may have been slivers of Honor, and they now have some remaining splinter of Honor's power hidden. Cultivation may be helping them guarding the splinter, and that's why she doesn't want to be too involved in the recent struggles with Odium, in order not to expose the location.

[Jack33210]

1 hour ago, RShara said:

Is it possible they scoured Aimia themselves, to protect whatever it is that could cause the ends of worlds?

That would sure be some dedication lol, but I don't think that would be the case.

[RShara]

Well, the ones we've had viewpoints from don't seem particularly torn up about it.