Rainier

[OB][Warbreaker] Vasher, Vivenna, Nightblood, and Szeth

32 posts in this topic

For obvious reasons these three people will be coming together over a common thread: Nightblood.What face-time Szeth gets in book 4 will surely be dominated by his multiple commitments: Dalinar as the subject of his third oath, his fourth oath and the purging of the Shin, reforming the Skybreakers, and Nightblood. By bearing Nightblood Szeth will eventually draw Vivenna and Vasher. This seems the most certain to happen in book 4 and especially before the end of book 5 (I hope, I pray), although I can absolute imagine being teased for a full 10 12 books on Nightblood's fate and influence so I won't will get my hopes up. Whenever it happens, these three will either be enemies or intimate, depending on Vasher and Vivenna's motives.

The crux of this conflict will lie in Nightblood's chain of custody and the creation of Vivenna's Type IV BioChromatic sword. The last we saw Nightblood before he showed up in Nale's hands, he was with Vasher and Vivenna at the end of Warbreaker. We've been promised a sequel which should clear up these custody issues, but regardless of how (at least) three two Nalthians and their two sentient swords ended up on Roshar, we know they're all coming into conflict.

This whole post started from speculation on 'shipping Szeth, so I'll end with a twist. How will the two swords react to each other when they meet for the first time? Nightblood is ostensibly masculine, and Vivenna refers to her sword as she. Can we get some Type IV BioChromatic lovin' on?

 

Edited by Rainier
Only two Nalthians
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I agree with all that you said. It'd be interesting to see them all come together, and how they would react upon that happening.

Also it's not definitive whether Nightblood is male or female, even he/she doesn't know and is very curious in regards to genders as a concept. (Vasher used masculine based words in association to Nightblood, so I think most people assume him to be male.)

I am curious how two sentient swords would go about lovin'!

;):D

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Szeth just swore his third oath. The next book is Venli/Eshonai most likely. I think we'll be waiting for book 5 to see the meat of Szeth's Shinovar crusade after he swears the 4th near the end of the next book. 

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Considering how possesive Vasher tend(ed) to be of Nightblood, how Vivenna came to Roshar specifically hunting Nghtblood and called it a criminal, and that I don't see Szeth relinquising possesion of Nightblood easily I doubt the meeting between those 3 (5) beings will be amicable. At least not at first. I also suspect Vasher and Szeth will meet early on book 4, since both will be around Urithiru. Unless Szeth tells Dalinar of the Honorblades with the Shin, so he leaves to recover them. 

What I really want to see is what (if any) surges Nightblood grants :ph34r:.

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4 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Considering how possesive Vasher tend(ed) to be of Nightblood, how Vivenna came to Roshar specifically hunting Nghtblood and called it a criminal, and that I don't see Szeth relinquising possesion of Nightblood easily I doubt the meeting between those 3 (5) beings will be amicable.

I think Vasher was mostly possessive of Nightblood was because he knew he could resist the urges to kill with Nightblood and he didn't really trust anyone else with this super weapon.

I wonder if Nighblood was able to consume enough Investiture if he could destroy a dead Shardblade.

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Just now, Naurock said:

I wonder if Nighblood was able to consume enough Investiture if he could destroy a dead Shardblade.

Thats practically confirmed. I wouldn't be overly surprised if in the right circumstances Nightblood could also destroy living Shardblades.

Quote

Questioner

What would happen if a Shardblade hit Nightblood?

Brandon Sanderson

Nightblood would act like a Shardblade, in that it would stop a Shardblade. It is significantly more Invested than a Shardblade, so it would have some ramifications beyond that.

Quote

Questioner

How would you compare the Investiture in Nightblood to the Investiture in one of the spren turned into a--

Brandon Sanderson

Sword? They have less Investiture than Nightblood.

Quote

Questioner

I am curious about, if sprens are pieces of the god power, and investiture is the power of the god, then can Nightblood consume spren?

Brandon Sanderson

He could theoretically -- yeah, he could totally consume spren. There's not even any “theoretically” to that.

 

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Nightblood doesn't have a gender. While I personally imagine his voice as being masculine, it seems to vary by person (Vasher and Vivenna if I recall correctly referred to him as "him" when they had to, Szeth says it is neither, but Lift refers to Nightblood as "she"). 

Also, we know Vasher came to Roshar looking for Nightblood, he says as much in WoR I believe. We also know Vivenna/Azure is looking for Nightblood and Vasher (though it's possible that she's just looking for Vasher because she thinks he has Nightblood). 

My hope is Vasher notices Szeth as early into Book 4 as possible and tries to steal it back, or offers Dalinar something in exchange for the sword. Considering Nale and Cultivation both had access to Nightblood at certain points, I imagine there are a LOT of variable to this story that we just have no chance of guessing, but I don't think Szeth is destined to keep Nightblood forever. 

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Anyone have thoughts or evidence on the chain of custody? At end of Warbreaker Vasher has custody. Next we see Nightblood with Nale in Words of Radiance.  

I noticed when Dalinar went to visit the Nightwatcher, she offered him “a blade that bleeds darkness and cannot be defeated.” Sounds like Nightblood. Does she have custody of Nightblood at this point? If so, how did she get it, and how did it get from her to Nale?

Edited by knightedbishop
Fixed a typo
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So, the more I think about it, the more I think that shipping Vivenna and Szeth would be fascinating. If you think about it, they have some stark similarities. They were both bred for a role, and followed it to the detriment of their mental health, no matter what. Then they had a serious revelation, Denth's betrayal for Vivenna and Kaladin for Szeth, so they threw away the responsibilities put upon them by their leaders and became awesome under the tutelage of an Immortal mentor (Vasher and Nale). The parallels are there, and I feel like Szeth and Vivenna both have something to gain from that relationship.

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I'm honestly excited to see Szeth and where his arc goes next, which is not something I ever thought I'd say about him. I feel like finally getting him away from... all that, got him to slow down enough that I feel like I have a better read on the kind of person he is now. 

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On 12/2/2017 at 4:43 PM, Radiant Returned said:

Also, we know Vasher came to Roshar looking for Nightblood, he says as much in WoR I believe. We also know Vivenna/Azure is looking for Nightblood and Vasher (though it's possible that she's just looking for Vasher because she thinks he has Nightblood). 

We have a WOB that Vasher came to Roshar with Nightblood, and then was separated after:

 

Quote

 

AllomancerSam (paraphrased)

Were Vasher and Nightblood were separated before or after coming to Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

After hesitating for a minute, he said that they were separated after.

 

 

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48 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

We have a WOB that Vasher came to Roshar with Nightblood, and then was separated after:

 

 

My money is that something happened with Nightblood on Nalthis resulting in a decision by some parties to destroy him. Vasher, because NB is kinda his kid with Shashara, couldn't let that happen, and jumped to Roshar and gave NB to Cultivation/Nightwatcher to keep safe.

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5 minutes ago, Jhardin said:

My money is that something happened with Nightblood on Nalthis resulting in a decision by some parties to destroy him. Vasher, because NB is kinda his kid with Shashara, couldn't let that happen, and jumped to Roshar and gave NB to Cultivation/Nightwatcher to keep safe.

I like this theory. Would explain why Vivenna is chasing after Nightblood, and the warning she told Kaladin and Adolin to give to Vasher about her.

 

In short, Nightblood did something and the Nalthis people want him destroyed. Vasher takes NB to Roshar to prevent this. Vivenna comes following after (or chasing, and only just now got to Roshar, since I'm pretty sure Vasher has been on Roshar for much longer than Vivenna).

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1 hour ago, Jhardin said:

My money is that something happened with Nightblood on Nalthis resulting in a decision by some parties to destroy him. Vasher, because NB is kinda his kid with Shashara, couldn't let that happen, and jumped to Roshar and gave NB to Cultivation/Nightwatcher to keep safe.

Good theory, but I wouldn't say he gave it to Cultivation.... Her tricking him out of NB sounds like a better story 

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23 minutes ago, Felt said:

Good theory, but I wouldn't say he gave it to Cultivation.... Her tricking him out of NB sounds like a better story 

I can totally get behind that idea, I would think that he probably bargained for the ability to convert Stormlight into Breaths or something along those lines.

 

Edit for thought completion

Edited by Jhardin
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51 minutes ago, Felt said:

Good theory, but I wouldn't say he gave it to Cultivation.... Her tricking him out of NB sounds like a better story 

I figured that the Nightwatcher was aware of Nightblood on Roshar, and offered it to Dalinar, not because she had it in her possession, but because it's something a greedy or bloodthirsty man might covet. She offers him what she thinks he wants, he tries to tempt him into succumbing to his baser desires which she will then provide alongside an appropriate curse.

So if Dalinar had gotten sidetracked and said, "You know what, that sword sounds awesome. Forget forgiveness I want that," then the Nightwatcher would have led Dalinar to Nightblood somehow and likely guided him into taking it for himself.

I don't think Nightblood was ever in the possession of either Cultivation or the Nightwatcher, but then again the chain of custody of Nightblood is one of the mysteries I'm most excited to see revealed, so while I doubt it was the case, I'm not prepared to rule out anything. Such a specific call-out of Nightblood is certainly noteworthy.

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All I can say is thank goodness Szeth is carrying Nightblood in Oathbringer. This made his chapters so much easier for me to read. I would love to see him and Azure share  some page time. Their names even sound good together. I may have found a new ship! @FuzzyWordsmith  Now I have to go reread Warbreaker. 

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When Szeth goes back to Urithiru with Dalinar, Vasher will sure notice his old sword, or the sword notice him, no?

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I think Nightblood will notice Vasher and try to hide from him. From what I’ve seen, Vasher and Nightblood got along mostly, but weren’t in complete agreement about things like vengeance. Szeth in the other hand respects Nightblood and calls him “Nimi”. I think Nightblood would rather stay Szeth’s weapon, especially because Szeth is about to do some serious killing in Shinovar.

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 Do you think Vasher will try to take NB back? I recall in WoR Vasher advising Kaladin to make the choice that made it easier to sleep at night, becuase that is what he wished he did. With the other knowledge we have now, I wonder if he didn't intentionally abandon NB and wish he hasn't fled with him. 

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3 hours ago, Melovespie said:

 Do you think Vasher will try to take NB back? I recall in WoR Vasher advising Kaladin to make the choice that made it easier to sleep at night, becuase that is what he wished he did. With the other knowledge we have now, I wonder if he didn't intentionally abandon NB and wish he hasn't fled with him. 

I assume that had more to do with when Nightblood was created, or his actions in the Manywar. I didn't interpret that as having to do with Nightblood's current whereabouts, although I suppose it could be. There's just plenty of things that could keep Vasher up at night.

I have to assume that if Vasher wanted Nightblood, he'd have him, which only adds to the mystery. What the hell happened to that sword?

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23 hours ago, Govir said:

 

I like this theory. Would explain why Vivenna is chasing after Nightblood, and the warning she told Kaladin and Adolin to give to Vasher about her.

 

In short, Nightblood did something and the Nalthis people want him destroyed. Vasher takes NB to Roshar to prevent this. Vivenna comes following after (or chasing, and only just now got to Roshar, since I'm pretty sure Vasher has been on Roshar for much longer than Vivenna).

Considering he's been there at least long enough to have taught Adolin at an early age, that's pretty easy to infer. Did he teach Dalinar too? I haven't read WoR in a long time.

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I might be slow on the pickup here, but why are we all assuming that Azure is Vivenna? I mean, sure, Vivenna is certainly a possible candidate, but that's just because she's our only other known character from Nalthis. And before someone mentions her hair changing color, I'd like to point out that any Returned with practice would be able to do the same thing. 

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1 hour ago, 11thorderknight said:

I might be slow on the pickup here, but why are we all assuming that Azure is Vivenna? I mean, sure, Vivenna is certainly a possible candidate, but that's just because she's our only other known character from Nalthis. And before someone mentions her hair changing color, I'd like to point out that any Returned with practice would be able to do the same thing. 

Brandon confirmed Azure is Vivenna in a WoB on November 18

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On 12/1/2017 at 7:28 PM, Rainier said:

The crux of this conflict will lie in Nightblood's chain of custody and the creation of Vivenna's Type IV BioChromatic sword. The last we saw Nightblood before he showed up in Nale's hands, he was with Vasher and Vivenna at the end of Warbreaker. We've been promised a sequel which should clear up these custody issues, but regardless of how (at least) three Nalthians and their two sentient swords ended up on Roshar, we know they're all coming into conflict.

Wait.. Three Nalthians? Who is the third?

As far as I knew we've only seen Vivenna and Vasher so far. Unless you count the random guy in the lighthouse when Kaladin touched the shiny globe and saw his vision of Dalinar 

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