Head Crabs

[OB] The Sibling of Urithiru

36 posts in this topic

I'm back baby! And i've got a big one here!

 

The third and final greater spren is the sibling. A vast embodiment of stone that used to reside in the giant power core and by extension throughout the gem veins all through the city of urithiru. Probably powering all the different functions that arent working yet. Just like a modern fabrial, it requires stormlight and a spren to function which is why renarin and jasnah were unable to force stormlight into the fabrial to get it to function. 

 

From a chapter heading: 

 

Good night, dear Urithiru.

Good night, sweet Sibling. 

Good night, Radiants. 

 

 

Between the stormfather and dalinar:

 

"... are there others, though? Spren like you, or the Nightwatcher? Spren that are shadows of Gods?"

There is ... a third sibling. They are not with us. 

"In hiding?" 

No. Slumbering.

"Tell me more." 

No.

"But-" 

No! Leave them alone! You hurt them enough. 

 

 

 

My guess is that this sibling was the bonded great spren during the last desolation and was sent into catatonia when the last bondsmith died or lost their oaths. Falling into a long slumber the same way that Sylphrena did. I imagine that the sibling could be woken again and come back to live in urithiru, it might not have to be bonded to someone to power the city. Or maybe we'll get another bondsmith someday! 

 

Now for the nature of this third greater spren. Stone seems the obvious affiliation for me. The chapter headers of translations from that early dawnsinger speaks of how the humans turned the spren of the wind and stone against them. We already hear the listeners complain about how the storm (wind) was no longer completely theirs, and i believe the sibling was the other great spren to begin favoring the humans over dawnsingers. Each of the other great spren seem to have gained an influence from the shards present on roshar, the Stormfather and Honor, the Nightwatcher and Cultivation. The final pairing of course: the Sibling and Odium. With the sibling's presumed association with stone it may be responsible for all the great cities and fortifications throughout all of roshar! Using the cymatic vibrations on a huge scale to create the symmetrical fortifications. The striations in kholinar's windblades are pointed out as being identical to those inside urithiru. I think this slumbering Sibling is the architect behind the dawncities.

 

Perhaps this sibling can be woken in the CR the same way that the stormfather came and revived Sylphrena. And we'll get to see it flip the ignition on urithiru or even create new cymatic patterns designed to protect against both the highstorms and everstorms! 

 

Discuss! 

Edited by Head Crabs
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One thing that confuses me is Hoid's interaction with that child in the Epilogue. That child was weird - like really really weird. And how it kept saying "I cant leave Mama" made it seem, well it made it seem like it was talking about Cultivation. Could the child be the conscious form of the Sibling, and Hood tried to bond it? Then Hold decided to not do so, and moved on Elokar's Liespren instead?

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I think that was just a child who had been traumatized by the forceful occupation of Kholinar by the singers. Hoid's abilities put him in the city to find that cryptic and bond it, adding one more form of investiture to his arsenal. 

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5 minutes ago, Head Crabs said:

I think that was just a child who had been traumatized by the forceful occupation of Kholinar by the singers. Hoid's abilities put him in the city to find that cryptic and bond it, adding one more form of investiture to his arsenal. 

Maybe, but something is up. Why THAT child? Did Hoid save them? Why? Also Hold needed to deposit his breathe somewhere in order to bond a Cryptic,  but why did he leave the Awakened doll with THAT child? Kid seems really suspicious to me. 

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Alright, so i found the thread by @FirstSelector so be sure to go see his/her much better explanation for how the sibling powered urithiru and was bonded. 

 

Ah well! 

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12 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

Maybe, but something is up. Why THAT child? Did Hoid save them? Why? Also Hold needed to deposit his breathe somewhere in order to bond a Cryptic,  but why did he leave the Awakened doll with THAT child? Kid seems really suspicious to me. 

He actually retrieved his breath covertly right before he left. Reaching over to touch the doll and say something about taking care of them (the adoptive parents) Im not sure if he would need to store his breath, though that would be easy enough while he continued creating the disguise as he made his way to the palace 

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Yeah! I'm super-curious myself.  

Throwing out some semi-random ideas:

  1. Gloryspren seem to be the minor spren for Bondsmiths, like windspren are the minor spren for Windrunners and creationspren seem to be the minor spren for Lightweavers.  So the Sibling could be related.  If we think of the Surgebinding chart as having the more Honor-like spren on top and more Cultivationy spren on the bottom, then the Bondsmiths are most Honory in a way.  Glory and Honor seem pretty similar.  The value of this idea is that a superspren based on glory could be hurt when the reputation of the Knights goes bad.  The problem with this idea is that these superspren seem different.  The Nightwatcher seems very different from a gloryspren or the Stormfather.  The Stormfather is kind of more of the mother of all windspren that a gloryspren and seems to hang out with the Honorspren.  
  2. Shallan can't draw Urithiru, similarly to how she can't draw Pattern.  Could the Sibling have built Urithiru and be related to a Cryptic?  
  3. The OP proposes stone above, which makes sense.  Maybe related to whatever spren the Stonewards bond?

Who am I kidding?  After this much buildup, Brandon will come up with something better.  But maybe this will help someone think of something cool.

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3 hours ago, Head Crabs said:

I'm back baby! And i've got a big one here!

 

The third and final greater spren is the sibling. A vast embodiment of stone that used to reside in the giant power core and by extension throughout the gem veins all through the city of urithiru. Probably powering all the different functions that arent working yet. Just like a modern fabrial, it requires stormlight and a spren to function which is why renarin and jasnah were unable to force stormlight into the fabrial to get it to function. 

 

From a chapter heading: 

 

Good night, dear Urithiru.

Good night, sweet Sibling. 

Good night, Radiants. 

 

 

Between the stormfather and dalinar:

 

"... are there others, though? Spren like you, or the Nightwatcher? Spren that are shadows of Gods?"

There is ... a third sibling. They are not with us. 

"In hiding?" 

No. Slumbering.

"Tell me more." 

No.

"But-" 

No! Leave them alone! You hurt them enough. 

With the sibling's presumed association with stone it may be responsible for all the great cities and fortifications throughout all of roshar! Using the cymatic vibrations on a huge scale to create the symmetrical fortifications. The striations in kholinar's windblades are pointed out as being identical to those inside urithiru. I think this slumbering Sibling is the architect behind the dawncities.

I had the same thought, that the spren wasn't just of Urithiru but all the dawncities and would certainly be an answer for why the singular sibling is also referred to as "they". 

 

Perhaps part of why it went to sleep was the destruction of Stormseat? Could the original shattering have damaged such a spren, eventually leaving the Sibling in a state where it gradually shut down?

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The gemstone archive epigraphs suggest, though, that the sibling was retreating because of the perceived worthiness of the KR, but not because it intended to. The Stormfather seems genuinely protective of them and says “you’ve hurt them enough”. This implies it wasn’t killed like the shard blade spren, but chose withdrawal because of that hurt. I wonder if it is the nature of fabrial magic in general, and people began to forcefully capture spren to make them do what they wanted, as opposed to having them choose to do that duty. And this is not honorable (the Stormfather mentions that the mark of Honor is choice and respecting and honoring your choices). Just something I’ve been thinking about, but maybe that’s too simplistic.

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3 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

Maybe, but something is up. Why THAT child? Did Hoid save them? Why? Also Hold needed to deposit his breathe somewhere in order to bond a Cryptic,  but why did he leave the Awakened doll with THAT child? Kid seems really suspicious to me. 

I don’t disagree that the child interaction was suspicious ( I’ve read the epilogue like 3 times now).  However, just to clarify when Hoid finally pulled the girl away he describes seeing the remains of a person burried by rubble in the alley way, that was probably the girls mother....

“The girl hugged the patchwork creation, and he picked her up, turning away from the broken building—and the bones of a leg sticking from the rubble just inside.”

Absolutely broke my heart when I noticed that on a re-read.

Edited by menacekop
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5 hours ago, menacekop said:

“The girl hugged the patchwork creation, and he picked her up, turning away from the broken building—and the bones of a leg sticking from the rubble just inside.”

Absolutely broke my heart when I noticed that on a re-read.

The bones. This is what I kept thinking after the epilogue. How long was that little girl there after her mother was crushed?

As for the Sibling, I'm pretty convinced they were killed during the Recreance. Here's why I believe this:

  1. There can be only three Bondsmiths at a time
  2. There are three greater spren they can bond: The Stormfather, the Nightwatcher, and the Sibling (This is the part I'm least sure of)
  3. The final generation of Knights Radiant had only one Bondsmith -- one of the gemstone records speculated this was why the orders were failing
  4. Spren who were bonded to KR during the Recreance died
  5. Stormfather and Nightwatcher aren't dead
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Fantastic work OP. You've scratched crumbs off a much bigger worldbuilding sensation that will leave us reeling of Sanderson genius-spren. 

If Dalinar united all 3 realms near that Urithiru gemstone ignition pillar, wouldn't all the gems come to life and wake the tower?

Thank you for your realizations. Keep them coming hero.

Edited by tabitreader
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I'd thought similar things in regards to one godpren being of honour, one being of cultivation and one being of odium. I was thinking maybe the one of odium is the last unmade which we haven't seen any information of yet? 

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Already a thread on this. Mostly, I don't remember if anyone proposed the Sibling being killed/going to sleep being caused by the Recreance. But the Sibling appears to be withdrawing before the Tower was abandoned, which was before the Recreance, so I think the cause would be something else.

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The most obvious reason would be The Shattered Plains/Stormseat. Which begs the question.

Why did the Releasers destroy Stormseat?

Was it an Unmade? Was Stormseat where they confronted Bo-Ado-Mishram?

If The Sibling is connected to all the Ten Cities could they do 'things' when they awaken?

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I think Shallan was unable to draw Urithiru because at the time it was host to an unmade and somehow the way they tend to do funky things to the world and didn’t she have trouble with Kholinar as well

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On 11/30/2017 at 6:42 PM, deddinty said:

why the singular sibling is also referred to as "they". 

They is gender-neutral, so Brandon can get away without using a "he/she." They can also be singular, for that exact reason.

I use "they" far more often than "he" or "she" in my natural vocab, so this might just be me, but I don't see anything out of place when reading that passage.

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32 minutes ago, ScavellTane said:

The most obvious reason would be The Shattered Plains/Stormseat. Which begs the question.

Why did the Releasers destroy Stormseat?

Was it an Unmade? Was Stormseat where they confronted Bo-Ado-Mishram?

If The Sibling is connected to all the Ten Cities could they do 'things' when they awaken?

I agree that this is most interesting insofar as it pertains to the Shattered Plains. Assuming the Sibling is connected in some fashion to stone (which I think is probable), then what is going on with the Shattered Plains?

I'm not so sure the Dustbringers are responsible, I think it's more likely that the harm done to the Sibling is related to the shattering of the Shattered Plains. I also like the thought that the event was in some way related to a confrontation of the Voidbringers/Unmade. The presence of the Listeners/Parshendi in that location isn't likely to be coincidental.

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The swirls and lines extended across the tabletop, a masterwork of engraving accomplished in moments. Malata blew off the ash. The Surge she used, Division, caused objects to degrade, burn, or turn to dust.

I'm fairly sure the Releasers were responsible for The Shattered Plains.

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10 hours ago, tabitreader said:

Fantastic work OP. You've scratched crumbs off a much bigger worldbuilding sensation that will leave us reeling of Sanderson genius-spren. 

If Dalinar united all 3 realms near that Urithiru gemstone ignition pillar, wouldn't all the gems come to life and wake the tower?

Thank you for your realizations. Keep them coming hero.

They've already tried to transfer Stormlight and it wouldn't hold it. Renarin, Jasnah and Navani are constantly mentioning it's a fabrial. I'm curious how a spren retreats from a fabrial, because King T says you trap a spren in the gemstone. Maybe because it's not a lesser/mindless spren?

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9 minutes ago, Naurock said:

They've already tried to transfer Stormlight and it wouldn't hold it. Renarin, Jasnah and Navani are constantly mentioning it's a fabrial. I'm curious how a spren retreats from a fabrial, because King T says you trap a spren in the gemstone. Maybe because it's not a lesser/mindless spren?

Maybe it was released from the Fabrial. I imagine that bonding with the Stormfather and the others would be more of an agreement(normally, Dalinar excluded). Whomever made the City-Fabrial could have made a deal with the Sibling, rather than forcibly trapping it. There's an epigraph mention of some of the cities functions not working anymore, perhaps due to the Sibling being released?

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My theory based largely on certain thematic similarities is that the Skybreakers shattered the plains. It seems improbable that the Stormseat Oathgate was left open because it was forgotten about as Jasnah theorises so it seems likely it was a contingency of some kind. As the Skybreakers not abandoning their oaths seems also to be a sort of contingency and they possess the surge of Division it seems likely to me that they shattered the plains and then didn't seal the gate for the same reason they didn't abandon their oaths

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I wonder if this has to do with Honor's splintering. I think as Honor was destroyed some of the power source for the city may have faded with him. 

Either that or after the Sibling's Bondsmith died, it slowly lost is sapience and abilities. Transitions must have happened before, when Radiants died, but maybe there wasn't a Squire ready or willing to take the last one's place. 

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1 hour ago, The One Who Connects said:

Maybe it was released from the Fabrial. I imagine that bonding with the Stormfather and the others would be more of an agreement(normally, Dalinar excluded). Whomever made the City-Fabrial could have made a deal with the Sibling, rather than forcibly trapping it. There's an epigraph mention of some of the cities functions not working anymore, perhaps due to the Sibling being released?

Who knows, this is a fabrial unlike anything we've seen yet it seems. I think an epigraph said it protects the city somehow.

It's strange, because the Stormfather has like a split consciencneness, as it's now always with Dalinar and also with the storms. Maybe these Uber spren can bond people and also run super style systems. But I'm still kinda stuck on the wording "trapped", lured in and trapped. How does it leave the gem? King T. also said it's lured to something it loves, so either it loves the stone or something else of the building attracted it?

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Regarding the Sibling - anyone else think that "the parent" that the gate-spren referred to at the TC Oathgate were referring to the Sibling? We know the Sibling is linked to Urithiru, the Oathgates are linked to Urithiru, the God spren can create other spren (Stormfather made Syl for example) and "the parent" lines up with "the sibling" in terms of the language - non-gendered and non-named. 

Just a thought.

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