[OB] WoR's epilogue tie-in

[Mondaysjelly]

Hi all, I was one of the lucky people who was able to obtain a copy of OB ahead of time and absolutely devoured it like a starving kid with chocolate on Halloween. Which means I may have flew past things on my first read, so apologies in advance.

One thing that has been gnawing at the back of my mind since I started my second read through (which is a slow burn), is that how Jasnah and Wit's journey got glossed over. Unless I have missed something, all the big reveals within the book have come from events happening "in real time", save for flashback scenes of course. It seems like the bounty of information Jasnah gathered during her travels in Shadesmar did not appear at all, especially since she had communicated with the highspren. I was kind of looking forward to dissecting the information on "what was different" from previous Desolations that was alluded to at the end of WoR.

Please tell me this is bugging someone else and that I'm not crazy.

[RShara]

Maybe because there was so much going on?  OB takes place over a pretty short period of time, and she was so overwhelmed with trying to survive and trying to figure out Urithiru, not to mention the pressing threats of the Unmade and the discovery of the Stormlight Archive, that she just didn't have time to thoroughly brief everyone on her discoveries.  Other than the ones of immediate concern, like the drawings of the Heralds.

[Andy92]

The biggest revelation from their conversation was that Jasnah learned what caused the Recreance. That's the only major detail I can specifically remember that the book mentioned she learned from Wit, but the rest of the characters didn't learn of what caused the Recreance until the later parts of the book.

I'd also be interested in knowing what all they talked about, but I'm assuming most of that conversation is spoiler-heavy which is why it didn't come up much. 

[Mondaysjelly]

If memory serves me correctly, Jasnah returns at the end of Part 1 but the reason of the Recreance does not get revealed until much later in the book (Part 4 I think?), even though she participates in Dalinar's visions multiple times. I would've thought that that kind of information would be one of the first things she discusses once she reaches Urithiru. Furthermore, she puzzingly also does not seem to have any pre-established insight when the KR gather to discuss the Fused when Kaladin returns. Unless she is deliberately withholding information, I can't for the life of me figure out what kind of reconnaissance she did while trapped in Shadesmar, plus whatever info Wit decided to share with her after they met up.

[shawnhargreaves]

She is withholding information - she thinks at one point fairly early on that the cause of the Recreance must be kept secret so as not to destroy the other KR.

I am of the opinion that we still don't know the full cause of the Recreance.  But maybe Jasnah does - it's not confirmed that what she learned in Shadesmar or from Hoid matches what Taravangian later revealed to everybody.

[avus]

Yes. This bugged me really badly. As to the topic of not knowing the full reason for the recreance I completely agree. The suddenness of the Recreance indicates the knowledge of human's origins on Roshar wasn't the jarring cause.

[emailanimal]

Jasnah's first POV in the book makes it clear that she knows The Secret That Broke The Knights Radiant (tm).  Ivory makes a note that unlike previous KRs, Jasnah is not going to abandon him because she knows The Secret. Jasnah agrees.  The information appears to have come from the highspren Jasnah has visited with in Shadesmar.

But agree on the larger point. Jasnah's new knowledge, whatever it is, has not been relevant to the events in the book.

My guesses are two-fold. Looking at it from the meta point of view: Jasnah is still not a core protagonist - her role appears to be growing as the books progress (scheduled for book 10 revelations, which means that the final Avalanche in the Stormlight Archive, hopefully will feature her prominently). Brandon needed her around for plot movement reasons (even in her subdued role, she still manages to steal most of the scenes she is in, and badass her way through research, fine prose, and warfare), but he did not need her as the Deus Ex Machina for the book.  

Looking at this from the in-world perspective, Jasnah, is first and foremost, a scholar - an historian, in fact - the differences between her brand of scholarship and Navani's have been observed.  She pursues understanding of the past for the purpose of illuminating the future. She has learned a lot about the past. But she has also - in WoR epilogue came to a realization that her knowledge may not be as useful and applicable to the True Desolation as she hoped it would be.  Her POVs (including the apocryphal one) illustrate that behind the facade she puts in is a very cautious, often unsure of and doubting herself,  and scared deep down person. Scared, because she knows too much and understands too much, perhaps. Scared because she sees looming problems for which she does not know the solution. Scared because things she spent her entire life studying in order to be prepared this this are no longer of any help.  As long as she is in this mindset, I think she is bound to keep some things to herself. 

As the consequence,  I think, it is reasonable to assume that some of the things she found out while traversing Shadesmar will become relevant in Books 4 and 5.

But I do want to know what Wit told her.  Also, what Wit was interested to learn from her.

 

Edited November 29, 2017 by emailanimal

[dvoraen]

We can answer at least one of the things that was different from then vs the present:

Then

• The Fused were forced back to Damnation when killed.  (This is implied in Part II.)
• When the Heralds broke, the Fused gradually came from Damnation to Roshar, but not all of them immediately.
• The Unmade were presumably all freed and able to do their thing, including certain forms of power.

Now

• The Fused return with each Everstorm, rather than one death each.
• The Everstorm brought them to Roshar, rather than the Fused making the trip back themselves.
• The parshmen were unable to accept bonds with the Fused; the Everstorm had to repair the damage first in order for the process to occur.
• The Unmade are not all running rampant; some of them are/were imprisoned.  Ba-Ado-Mishram is at the top of the list for why this matters.  Forms of power are more limited in occurrence.

 

Now, as far as what Jasnah learned from Wit, I will wager there's quite a bit that we won't see until her book.  Among those (and this is strictly me guessing):

• Pre-Odium humanity and Roshar.
• The Dawnshards
• What's really happening with Dalinar.  Is he still a Bondsmith?  A Sliver?  Something else?
• The 411 about Adonalsium.

Edited November 29, 2017 by dvoraen

[chx]

Quote

 

A Sliver is a human intelligence who has held all or a very large portion of the power of a Shard and has since released it.

 

 

Dalinar should be one, then.

Edited November 29, 2017 by chx

[RShara]

7 hours ago, chx said:

Dalinar should be one, then.

Yes, Dalinar is considered a Sliver at this point.

[ScavellTane]

1 hour ago, RShara said:

Yes, Dalinar is considered a Sliver at this point.

How so? Dalinar didn't hold any shard.

[Mulk]

1 minute ago, ScavellTane said:

How so? Dalinar didn't hold any shard.

He held enough of Honor for Odium to say he Ascended.  And humans, no matter how powerful, can't unite the three realms and flood the area with Stormlight.

[Fifth of Daybreak]

Didn't Jasnah get her sketches of the Heralds from Hoid?

[Silanda]

She did, yeah. 

I have to wonder what it means that after that road trip with Hoid, we only know one thing about her current frame of mind and it’s basically “first thing we do is we kill all the Heralds.” She could be jumping to a conclusion based on whatever he told her, or... it’s something more interesting than that. 

[RShara]

1 hour ago, ScavellTane said:

How so? Dalinar didn't hold any shard.

The definition of a Sliver is a human (sentient physical being) that holds a large part of the power of a Shard.  Dalinar was able to supercharge everyone with Stormlight, signifying he holds a large part of Honor's power, therefore, he's a Sliver just like TLR was a Sliver.

[bo.montier]

51 minutes ago, RShara said:

The definition of a Sliver is a human (sentient physical being) that holds a large part of the power of a Shard.  Dalinar was able to supercharge everyone with Stormlight, signifying he holds a large part of Honor's power, therefore, he's a Sliver just like TLR was a Sliver.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think this is a premature conclusion. You might be right, but I certainly don't think we can state this as confirmed yet.