[OB] What do you guys want from book four?

[ICanDream]

I’m curious. What do you guys wish to see happen in book four?

Personally, in regards to structure, I’d like a part one and two that are incredibly intimate, and focus on the emotions that Oathbringer sometimes skipped over (moments like Navani and Jasnah being reunited, everyone hearing of Elhokar death, Kaladin and Shallan talk about Heleran etc). Then parts three, four and five are more action packed (with five featuring the infamous Sanderson Avalanche.)

In terms of plot there are many things I would like to see. For one, Kaladin swearing the fourth ideal. I want him to do this before Shallan and Dalinar, as he has the most experience with his powers, and a trope I dislike in fiction is where one character achieves in two weeks what another character achieved in two years. So... fourth ideal.

i would also like to see Szeth wreak havoc on the Shin. This would give his arc real emotional weight, flesh out his backstory, help to world build and further the plot - as both the remaining honourblades and an oath gate are in Shinovar.

 Lastly I want an avalanche - one just as epic as the ones previously - where the good guys lose. Something in the spirit of a mashup between Kholinar Palace battle and Thaylen city.

But those are just my opinions. What are yours?

[Fifth of Daybreak]

Stone Shaman!

[teknopathetic]

I need to know:

1. Is Eshonai banished to Braize? (her conversion was flawed). Will we see her there and will we see what it is like?

2. Will Eshonai still get a book? I would forgive Brandon for fibbing about Eshonai and instead give the book to Venli. 
    We are wondering what the In-World book will be, and Venli's Listener History is a good candidate. 

3. Stone Shamanism - What is it and which god is it of? Old Odium Magic from the Void Reservation, or something newer of Cultivation?

4. Renarin - Why can't Odium see him in the diagram? Did Mr.T know this in smart-version? Is Smart Mr.T using medium Mr.T to
                    trick Odium?

5. What are the moons? What do they do? Why do they move funky? What are their spren like? 

6. Where is the sibling hiding in Uritheru? (a gem-memory basically says "they [sibling]" are in there).
     Who hurt this gender-nonspecific demigod, and how can we help them/it?

7. Will Navani bond the night watcher? How will that affect her? Does she need to give something up?

8. Will Dalinar tell his kids about his wiferacide? Will that be okiedokie?

9. What is the 9th type of wine? Is it of Odium?

Edited November 26, 2017 by teknopathetic

[Varenus]

Voidbinding!

[kaellok]

Here goes my bound-to-be-controversial list of things I want to see or not see in Book 4!  (Ranked in order of how important it is to me.)

1. What caused the Recreance, and how did it happen?  (I am currently not accepting the answers as presented in OB, 'cuz they don't make a lot of sense.  Within the proper context and framework, they might.  That's what I want to see.)

2. When did Shallan Bond Pattern?  We have seen the moment when Kaladin made his Bond with Syl, Dalinar with the Stormfather, and Szeth with (spren whose name is unknown or I just cannot remember), and we also know what led up to those points for each.  Why/when/how for Shallan is still a storming mystery.

3. More Jasnah.  Just so much more Jasnah.  Making her POV sections as prominent as Adolin's would be good; too much more than that might be bad.

4. Fewer non-Interlude one-off POV scenes.  Yes, it's nice to see through the eyes of Rock and Teft and Skar and Lopen and Navani, but continued expansion of viewpoints merely to hint at one thing that will happen later in the novel instead of showing it a different way lies all that was bad about the Wheel of Time series (not saying that series was all bad, but rather that the series had a serious bloat problem that started with introducing too many characters for a scene here or there).  

5. More Rysn that is not then shown to be completely irrelevant 30 pages later.

6. We had very little Szeth in OB.  This was the right amount.  

3 hours ago, ICanDream said:

 Lastly I want an avalanche - one just as epic as the ones previously - where the good guys lose. Something in the spirit of a mashup between Kholinar Palace battle and Thaylen city.

I'm confused--do you think the good guys are winning??  They're surviving, sure, but each battle has seen them fail and suffer losses they cannot recover from in time.  At the beginning of WoK, there's ~100,000 Alethi soldiers; by its end, we're at ~90,000.  By the end of WoR, only a few months later, they're at ~75-80,000.  The end of OB is now ~65,000.  That's a third of their total armies (assuming all highprinces were lending their forces to the cause, which they are not) gone in half a year, along with the entirety of their homeland.  

They've managed to not lose outright in battles that would have been game flipping over if they lost, but that's really all they have done.

[IllNsickly]

I would like words. Like, a LOT of words...

They should probably say stuff, coherently.. ish.. I'm not even that picky. It could just be a dictionary out of alphabetical order and I would do my best to try and make sense of it.

OVER NINE THOUSAND K WORDS!!!

Just for part one.

Edited November 26, 2017 by IllNsickly

[Andy92]

I want to see the current day Heralds start getting more involved now that Ash and Taln have arrived on the scene. Some of the other Herlads like Chana, Vedel, Paliah, Batar, and Ketek need to show up in non-subtle ways. 

Along those same lines, I want to see what is going on with Ishar. We got confirmation in this book of him being the Tukari god-king, but nothing else really. 

Is Jezrien's death permanent, or is his soul trapped in the dagger's gemstone? 

I really hope the next book has Szeth flashbacks, although I'm pretty sure the plan is for that one to be book five. I'm less interested in reading a book with Eshonai flashbacks if she's dead and gone for good. If Brandon changes it to Venli flashbacks then I could live with it. The reason I like the flashbacks is because we can see how a character learns from their past and uses that knowledge to change their future. If Eshonai is dead...well there's not going to be anymore character growth. 

[Bremen]

Quote

 What do you guys want from book four?

A release date.

[Steeldancer]

I want Kaladin to heal his scars

[ICanDream]

13 hours ago, kaellok said:

 

I'm confused--do you think the good guys are winning??  They're surviving, sure, but each battle has seen them fail and suffer losses they cannot recover from in time.  At the beginning of WoK, there's ~100,000 Alethi soldiers; by its end, we're at ~90,000.  By the end of WoR, only a few months later, they're at ~75-80,000.  The end of OB is now ~65,000.  That's a third of their total armies (assuming all highprinces were lending their forces to the cause, which they are not) gone in half a year, along with the entirety of their homeland.  

They've managed to not lose outright in battles that would have been game flipping over if they lost, but that's really all they have done.

Sorry I didn’t make myself clearer.

I mean like a battle as brutal as Kholinar Palace. In the Tower, two thousand men survive. At Kholinar Palace, almost everyone is massacred with very few escaping. There was a happy ending to the Tower (at least somewhat.) I want a battle that cripples the Alethi and co so badly they have to rethink the war

[Toaster Retribution]

1. Much more Ghostbloods (specifically more Mraize).

2. Axies and Rysn appearing in the main story as at least semi-important characters.

3. Learn the history between Jasnah and Amaram.

4. See Adolin revive Maya.

5. More Heralds. Specifically Chana. 

6. Szeth and Nale vs the Stone Shamans.

7. Odium making pancakes for King Ts grandchildren. 

8. The cognitive shadows of Amaram, Sadeas, Teleb and Moashs grandparents going for an epic roadtrip through the Cognitive Realm.

[Necessary Eagle]

1 hour ago, Toaster Retribution said:

8. The cognitive shadows of Amaram, Sadeas, Teleb and Moashs grandparents going for an epic roadtrip through the Cognitive Realm.

Then things get awkward when Elhokar tries to join them...

[analyticaposteriori]

A far more concrete structure would be greatly appreciated.

[Angsos]

Spoiler

The Kelsier shows up and starts 99 bottles of mudbeer on the wall

 

[Edvarin]

Alright, first of all, I want it to be at least 1200 pages and be finished in 2 years. But I'll settle for the first

1. Lots of Words. We know what? 10-13 out of 37 Words(Counting the 1st as 1 instead of 10 and not counting truths.Also accounting for theories.)? We need to know the 2nd and 3rd Oaths for all the Orders. And the 4th Windrunner oath

2. Speaking of Windrunners, Kaladin speaking the 4th Oath is only one of the things I want to see from him. I want to see him in glowing blue Shardplate. I want him overcome his dark side completely and embrace a leadership role and create an Order of Windrunners to rival the Skybreakers. I want to see him find Tarah or get some sort of relationship. And I want him to be at peace with who he must fight.

3. Dalinar. I want to see him explore the Bondsmith powers a bit more and I want to learn more about the Stormfather. I want to see him solidify his union of nations and solidify at least 9 of the new Radiant Orders into at least  a semblance of the former glory of the Knights Radiant. I doubt the Skybreakers will join right away, except for Szeth. As for Words, I think he's had enough growth for the moment. If the theories are wrong and he only said 1 Oath, I wouldn't mind a 4th, but I don't feel I need it like Kaladins.

4. I think I might need to see Shallans next truth as well. I want to see her Shallan side grow and completely conquer her other sides and make them into 1 person. A better whole. And Adolin needs to Bond Maya.

5. Of course, I want to see Szeth go back to Shinovar. I want to learn about the Stone shamans and the Honorblades and I think they know more about the history of their coming and the Dawnshards and stuff. I want to see Szeth get his revenge. He'll probably get his 4th Oath as well, but I'm ok with delaying it. I want to learn about his spren and his Division Surge. Learning from a Herald has to be awesome right? Also, I want to see him convince Nale to switch sides or at least give the Skybreakers that option.

6. Heralds. Yes, I want to see more Heralds. I suspect that the next book will be divided into 2 parts at least. Shinovar, and Tukar, where Ishar is their God-King. I suspect the book will end with Ishar joining them and bringing several of the remaining Heralds to their cause. We'll probably learn more about Adonalsium from them too. And I hope we learn that Jezriens soul is not completely lost, just trapped in that daggers gem.

7. I want to see Lift master her abilities more. Maybe Szeth, who practiced with the Honorblades could give her a bit of help? And I want to learn more about her encounter with Cultivation/Nightwatcher.

8. I want to see Navani have a breakthrough with fabrial technology and begin mass producing helpful stuff. Like Healing fabrials. And I want to see Jasnah kick chull now that she is the Queen of Alethkar. Of course, she might have to retake Alethkar first...

9. Of course, I want to see Venli join the rest of our KRs. I want to learn more about Voidbinding and Odium and how to stop him.

10. I want to see Taravangian and his traitor Radiant Malata die. He is the new Sadeas, but far, far worse. Not sure if hes playing Odium or not, but I'd rather have him out of the picture. And I was so happy to have a Dustbringer....and so disappointed by the one we got

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom]

10 hours ago, Edvarin said:

Maybe Szeth, who practiced with the Honorblades could give her a bit of help?

Here is what I suspect (and hope.) Bondsmith, Lightweaver, Windrunner, Elsecaller, Stonewards

Because Szeth has practiced with all of the Honorblades (minus Stonewards, cause they only had the 9 blades...) he is way too valuable as a trainer who can guide any and all of the orders. Normally that job would be filled by the Heralds, but I doubt we'll get that. So here is what I suspect: Dalinar will realize that Szeth is going to be insanely useful in training Dustbringers, Skybreakers, Edgedancers, Truthwatchers, and Willshapers. The other 5 are covered by Dalinar, Kaladin, Shalan, and Jasnah (plus the Stonewards.) And so when Szeth asks to be able to go on his personal crusade, Dalinar will hesitate, which will give Szeth's plotline some tension.

11 hours ago, Edvarin said:

I want to see Taravangian and his traitor Radiant Malata die.

Malata: Yes. Taravangian: He is too important to kill right away. Earliest death: Late in Book 5. Latest death: Late in book 10.

[Steeldancer]

1 hour ago, Brightlord Maelstrom said:

Here is what I suspect (and hope.) Bondsmith, Lightweaver, Windrunner, Elsecaller, Stonewards

Because Szeth has practiced with all of the Honorblades (minus Stonewards, cause they only had the 9 blades...) he is way too valuable as a trainer who can guide any and all of the orders. Normally that job would be filled by the Heralds, but I doubt we'll get that. So here is what I suspect: Dalinar will realize that Szeth is going to be insanely useful in training Dustbringers, Skybreakers, Edgedancers, Truthwatchers, and Willshapers. The other 5 are covered by Dalinar, Kaladin, Shalan, and Jasnah (plus the Stonewards.) And so when Szeth asks to be able to go on his personal crusade, Dalinar will hesitate, which will give Szeth's plotline some tension.

Malata: Yes. Taravangian: He is too important to kill right away. Earliest death: Late in Book 5. Latest death: Late in book 10.

Just take note: T is pretty old. I think he'll be dead by the second arc. 

[Edvarin]

1 hour ago, Brightlord Maelstrom said:

Because Szeth has practiced with all of the Honorblades (minus Stonewards, cause they only had the 9 blades...) he is way too valuable as a trainer who can guide any and all of the orders. Normally that job would be filled by the Heralds, but I doubt we'll get that.

I hadn't thought of this. Could be useful, but probably not as useful as you think. First of all, there are 8 Honorblades as Nale took his back. Second, some Surges are easier to practice with that others. I doubt they had much knowledge of the Bondsmith powers, or how to use the Transportation Surge. However, Nale did promise to teach him Division, so...

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom]

Just now, Edvarin said:

I hadn't thought of this. Could be useful, but probably not as useful as you think. First of all, there are 8 Honorblades as Nale took his back. Second, some Surges are easier to practice with that others. I doubt they had much knowledge of the Bondsmith powers, or how to use the Transportation Surge. However, Nale did promise to teach him Division, so...

Useful enough that Dalinar would hesitate to let him leave on a personal crusade?

[kari-no-sugata]

56 minutes ago, Brightlord Maelstrom said:

Here is what I suspect (and hope.) Bondsmith, Lightweaver, Windrunner, Elsecaller, Stonewards

Because Szeth has practiced with all of the Honorblades (minus Stonewards, cause they only had the 9 blades...) he is way too valuable as a trainer who can guide any and all of the orders. Normally that job would be filled by the Heralds, but I doubt we'll get that. So here is what I suspect: Dalinar will realize that Szeth is going to be insanely useful in training Dustbringers, Skybreakers, Edgedancers, Truthwatchers, and Willshapers. The other 5 are covered by Dalinar, Kaladin, Shalan, and Jasnah (plus the Stonewards.) And so when Szeth asks to be able to go on his personal crusade, Dalinar will hesitate, which will give Szeth's plotline some tension.

Part of me cynically wonders "will Brandon actually let the characters discuss such things properly?". After all, we've barely seen any discussion between the characters about their abilities, their spren, their Ideals, possible dangers, possible tactics and combinations.

On the other hand, Szeth has specifically been mentioned to have used all the available Honorblades for training so should be familiar with all Surges. What would be the point of that if it doesn't have some kind of payoff? Though I don't know how deep he went into his training.

There's also the possibility of Jasnah getting all sorts of interesting information from Ash (and Taln if he can be healed).

[Edvarin]

I doubt it. He would give him time to train, as he did Kaladin before sending him to Kholinar, but I think Shinovar is too important for him to miss out on. With a knowledgeable insider like Szeth, who's willing to do it...he might send Kaladin or one of the other KR to keep Szeth in check, but he won't keep Szeth tied down.

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom]

5 minutes ago, Edvarin said:

I doubt it. He would give him time to train, as he did Kaladin before sending him to Kholinar, but I think Shinovar is too important for him to miss out on. With a knowledgeable insider like Szeth, who's willing to do it...he might send Kaladin or one of the other KR to keep Szeth in check, but he won't keep Szeth tied down.

That is a fair point. And I doubt he'll need time to train. I mean, his mastery of Gravitation is good enough that even without knowledge of Division he is still a formidable opponent. And he has Nightblood...

[The Sovereign]

For the book to be written.

[Guest]

To arrive in my mailbox.

[StormingTexan]

I want to see a lot for from the three things I think we know the least about. Cultivation, Aimians and Shin.