[OB] Shardplate based on OB info

[NightFrost]

Ok so end of OB we know that it requires the fourth ideal before a KR can get plate. Also we see two of our KR surrounded by spen Kal by wind and Dalinar by glory. This gives support to the plate is lesser spen theory. However I think there is something missing we know that spen can be cut by shardblades so armor made out of them would be useless. In less you change or add something to them. I believe based on the way plate behaves that it is made out of spen but then they are reinforced by stormlight condensing like water into the form of plate. This makes sense because since the blade is highly invested it would take something of equal power to block it. Also freebe plate color is determined by which gem the order a KR relates to. Like garnet for lightweavers which we see when Shallan creates Radiant during the battle of Thaylen City. "Radiant in glowing garnet Shardplate, tall, with braided hair." 

[emailanimal]

I was originally against the theory that lesser spren from Shardplate, but the hints in this book appear to all be going in that direction.  You miss one more thing in your description: Jasnah a seen by Adolin appears to have just dismissed her Shardplate - Adolin saw people flying (thrown by Jasnah, whose magic is NOT throwing people), and saw an afterimage around her.  That afterimage is very likely to be the disappearing Shardplate - in Jasnah's case, consisting of logicspren, no less.

[Khyrindor]

Shallan has also been surrounded by creationspren. I'm still not sure how much I like that theory, it could be just made of pure Investiture as well, would be a bit more...morally okay? There is definitely something going on with the spren, however. I'll admit that.

[Dahak]

5 hours ago, emailanimal said:

 (thrown by Jasnah, whose magic is NOT throwing people)

Roy Mustang and Alex Louis Armstrong would like me to remind you there are ways of using transmutation to send people flying.

The Flame Alchemist is notorious for transmuting air into thermobaric explosives and the Strong Arm Alchemist has been known to transmute air into high velocity rocks as a form of extreme punching.

[DiamondMind]

5 hours ago, emailanimal said:

I was originally against the theory that lesser spren from Shardplate, but the hints in this book appear to all be going in that direction.  You miss one more thing in your description: Jasnah a seen by Adolin appears to have just dismissed her Shardplate - Adolin saw people flying (thrown by Jasnah, whose magic is NOT throwing people), and saw an afterimage around her.  That afterimage is very likely to be the disappearing Shardplate - in Jasnah's case, consisting of logicspren, no less.

Actually, it's highly likely that part of Transportation is throwing people, or perhaps changing their momentum. We see Jasnah doing it onscreen while running with Renarin without wearing Shardplate: 

Quote

The first soldier swung his sword at her. Jasnah ducked the weapon, then shoved her hand against him, throwing him backward. He crystallized in the air, slamming into the next man, who caught the transformation like a disease. He slammed into another man, knocking him back, as if the full force of Jasnah’s shove had transferred to him. He crystallized a moment later.

 

[Watchcry]

6 hours ago, Rider of Storms said:

Shallan has also been surrounded by creationspren. I'm still not sure how much I like that theory, it could be just made of pure Investiture as well, would be a bit more...morally okay? There is definitely something going on with the spren, however. I'll admit that.

Shallan is at the fourth oath and hasn't manifested plate yet so maybe it depends on the order. 

I personally believe that the lesser spren work under the bonded spren to form the plate. 

[emailanimal]

1 hour ago, DiamondMind said:

then shoved her hand against him, throwing him backward. He crystallized in the air

"Shoved" is actual physical contact, the rest if Soulcasting.

[DiamondMind]

22 minutes ago, emailanimal said:

"Shoved" is actual physical contact, the rest if Soulcasting.

The initial push is, but then "He slammed into another man, knocking him back, as if the full force of Jasnah’s shove had transferred to him." There is something else going on here. Coupled with the fact is there is no reason for Jasnah to hide her shardplate, I'm inclined toward in being Transportation.

[emailanimal]

1 minute ago, DiamondMind said:

The initial push is, but then "He slammed into another man, knocking him back, as if the full force of Jasnah’s shove had transferred to him." There is something else going on here. Coupled with the fact is there is no reason for Jasnah to hide her shardplate, I'm inclined toward in being Transportation.

But you use your Brandon quote:

1 hour ago, DiamondMind said:

He crystallized in the air, slamming into the next man, who caught the transformation like a disease.

 

This still reads like a strong physical contact followed by Soulcasting. The chain reaction is people turning into statues.

 

 

[DiamondMind]

Just now, emailanimal said:

This still reads like a strong physical contact followed by Soulcasting. The chain reaction is people turning into statues.

It's both. How else would the momentum transfer?

[emailanimal]

Just now, DiamondMind said:

It's both. How else would the momentum transfer?

Jasnah pushed a relatively light (say 200 lbs) person through her own personal strength, possibly enhanced due to spren bond. The body turned from 90% water into 100% stone increasing its mass during the flight, but keeping the momentum. the effect is as if Jasnah has shoved a ton, but she really did not.

[Calderis]

I still think that the "just dismissed" thing is actually the geometric shapes that appear when Elsecalling is used. 

Transportation on another to send them up means a falling soldier. 

[Oversleep]

1 hour ago, emailanimal said:

The body turned from 90% water into 100% stone increasing its mass during the flight, but keeping the momentum. the effect is as if Jasnah has shoved a ton, but she really did not.

... laws of physics, namely "Conservation of momentum", want to have a word with you.

9 hours ago, NightFrost said:

Ok so end of OB we know that it requires the fourth ideal before a KR can get plate.

The level for Shardblade varies between Orders, it's totally possible it varies for Shardplate too. At best we can guess Windrunners gain Shardplate at Fourth.

Edited November 25, 2017 by Oversleep

[emailanimal]

3 hours ago, Oversleep said:

... laws of physics, namely "Conservation of momentum", want to have a word with you.

I am well aware of the laws of physics on Earth.  All questions about the laws of physics in Cosmere should be directed to Brandon.

[lastofus]

12 hours ago, NightFrost said:

Ok so end of OB we know that it requires the fourth ideal before a KR can get plate. Also we see two of our KR surrounded by spen Kal by wind and Dalinar by glory. This gives support to the plate is lesser spen theory. However I think there is something missing we know that spen can be cut by shardblades so armor made out of them would be useless. In less you change or add something to them. I believe based on the way plate behaves that it is made out of spen but then they are reinforced by stormlight condensing like water into the form of plate. This makes sense because since the blade is highly invested it would take something of equal power to block it. Also freebe plate color is determined by which gem the order a KR relates to. Like garnet for lightweavers which we see when Shallan creates Radiant during the battle of Thaylen City. "Radiant in glowing garnet Shardplate, tall, with braided hair." 

Hmm, I thought it was a given that the plate needs Stormlight to function. And you can kill a spren with shardblade (severing their spiritual connection or some other nonsense like this), but stormlight can heal those connection. Also, they need to feed Stormlight to "dead" plates to regrow them or make them functional again.

I haven't seen Jasnah shoving people from Adolin's vision. Can you point me to where you saw it? And I didn't see any Radiant wearing Shardplates in the fight. Am I missing something?

[Oversleep]

4 hours ago, emailanimal said:

I am well aware of the laws of physics on Earth.  All questions about the laws of physics in Cosmere should be directed to Brandon.

... no, not really. Investiture can bypass some of the limitations of the Physical world, but the effect always obeys laws of physics. If you want a proof of conservation of momentum working when changing mass mid-flight, look no further than Scadrial.

[NightFrost]

You know it makes me laugh that I made this post for talking about Shardplate and got huge arguments on if it is possible to through a man through the air with soulcasating.  However this did pop up.

15 hours ago, Oversleep said:

 

The level for Shardblade varies between Orders, it's totally possible it varies for Shardplate too. At best we can guess Windrunners gain Shardplate at Fourth.

I think that the level that Knights get plate is dependent on how their surges relate to combat. This would make sense as the windrunners where one of the main combat orders meaming they should get plate sooner in order to be more effective faster. 

[Farnsworth]

Id the lesser spren theory is correct, itwould be interesting to see how the plate views itself. In the CR, is the plate a single object, or many spren touching each other?

[DocHoliday]

On 11/25/2017 at 1:34 PM, NightFrost said:

You know it makes me laugh that I made this post for talking about Shardplate and got huge arguments on if it is possible to through a man through the air with soulcasating.  However this did pop up.

I think that the level that Knights get plate is dependent on how their surges relate to combat. This would make sense as the windrunners where one of the main combat orders meaming they should get plate sooner in order to be more effective faster. 

One would think. Windrunners not getting it until they've sworn 80% of their Oaths kinda pushes that to the back burner.

[Vianki]

I've been reading too much and can't remember who else thinks this, but we have almost definitely seen one Radiant in actual shardplate. Shallon. It's actually the scene the OP quoted. 

As far as I know, Shallon always drew Brightness Radiant in a Havah, not plate. In the scene the OP quoted, we have the description of Radiant in Plate. Assuming that description of Radiant is the consistent visualization of her throughout the scene, she would still be seen wearing plate in the moment where Jasnah reaches out to Shallan.  Of the three (Veil, Shallon, Brightness) in that moment, Brightness was the physical one.
 

Quote

"That should buy us a few moments." Jasnah turned toward Radiant, Veil and Shallan. She took Shallan by the arm-but Shallan wavered, then puffed away. Jasnah froze, then turned to Veil.

"Here," Radiant said, tired, stumbling to her feet. She was the one Jasnah could feel. She blinked away tears. 

(OB 1178)
 

 

[Jerich]

On 11/24/2017 at 4:46 PM, Watchcry said:

Shallan is at the fourth oath and hasn't manifested plate yet so maybe it depends on the order. 

I personally believe that the lesser spren work under the bonded spren to form the plate. 

 

I think Shallan has summoned plate in the past and has shut out the memory...

 

From page 160 of OB...

Quote

He grinned. “You said that Jasnah was a Radiant too. Women, gaining Shardblades. It’s weird, but it’s not like we can ignore it. What about Plate? Do you have that hidden somewhere too?” 

“Not that I know of,” she said. Her heart was beating quickly, her skin growing cold, her muscles tense. She fought against the sensation. “I don’t know where Plate comes from.”

 

[Vianki]

Good catch!!

I wonder if that's how she survived the initial attack from her mother?  A lot of assumptions here, but Shallon was very young, and probably trusted her mother implicitly. It would have taken a pretty drastic and definitive attack for her to summon Pattern and actually kill her own mother in self-defense. Thinking through this, it's possible that shardplate saved her tiny body, shocked her mother, and gained her the time she needed to survive and fight back. 

LOTS of guesswork, but I think it makes sense? 

[Oversleep]

2 hours ago, Jerich said:

From page 160 of OB...

Quote

He grinned. “You said that Jasnah was a Radiant too. Women, gaining Shardblades. It’s weird, but it’s not like we can ignore it. What about Plate? Do you have that hidden somewhere too?” 

“Not that I know of,” she said. Her heart was beating quickly, her skin growing cold, her muscles tense. She fought against the sensation. “I don’t know where Plate comes from.”

A lot of people are quoting that as evidence Shallan had Plate.

And I don't see it. At all. Can someone explain why this quote implies her having Plate earlier? (which I doubt very much - so much Oaths at age... what, ten?)

[DiamondMind]

Just now, Ookla the Indefatigable said:

A lot of people are quoting that as evidence Shallan had Plate.

And I don't see it. At all. Can someone explain why this quote implies her having Plate earlier? (which I doubt very much - so much Oaths at age... what, ten?)

"Her heart was beating quickly, her skin growing cold, her muscles tense" is describing Shallan's anxiety, which probably means she's hiding something, even from herself. 

[StormingTexan]

3 minutes ago, DiamondMind said:

"Her heart was beating quickly, her skin growing cold, her muscles tense" is describing Shallan's anxiety, which probably means she's hiding something, even from herself. 

In the context of that entire scene she is "calming her nerves" even before plate is mentioned so I think all of this is because of her hang up on her shardblade and talking about it with Adolin. This is pretty early on. I do not see any proof at all she has plate from this.