[OB] Questions to answer

[Leyrann]

2 minutes ago, Fulminato said:

he talk of the 'third' spren.

the only 'third' spren is the red smoke towering over the tunderclast spirit/spren

He talks about the third black spren. The Thrill is red.

On 22-11-2017 at 3:57 AM, Lightning said:

- What was the third powerful black spren with Odium at the end?

[Fulminato]

1 minute ago, Leyrann said:

He talks about the third black spren. The Thrill is red.

the other two spren should be?

[Leyrann]

Just now, Fulminato said:

the other two spren should be?

I don't know, I don't have the books here to look it all up, but he's talking about a black spren, the Thrill is red. Therefore, he's not talking about the Thrill. Or do you have a single instance where the Thrill is described as black?

[Fifth of Daybreak]

29 minutes ago, Fulminato said:

the other two spren should be?

Same question, if the thrill is the black spren and the red spren, what would the other two be described as?

[Lightning]

The other two spren were the ones who became the thunderclasts.

[Calderis]

Just now, Lightning said:

The other two spren were the ones who became the thunderclasts.

This. There were two spren to become Thunderclasts, the red presence that was the Thrill, and Yelig-nar, who Venli only noticed later. 

[Fifth of Daybreak]

15 minutes ago, Calderis said:

who Venli only noticed later. 

This is the key point that @Leyrann and I are trying to get @Fulminato to acknowledge. @Lightning's OP specified "at the end" and Fulminato is quoting lines from the beginning and refusing to acknowledge the existence of Yelig-Nar.

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom]

On 11/21/2017 at 10:54 PM, emailanimal said:

Willshapers will only bond the singers.

What makes you say that?

[Patrick Star]

On 11/21/2017 at 9:57 PM, Lightning said:

And of course, the biggest whopper of them all:

- How in the world will Brandon outdo himself for a 4th time in a row??!!  [That ending was amazing!!!]

I want to see Adolin kill a Thunderclast Shadow of the Colossus style.  Please Brandon, I NEED THIS

[duladen]

The black smoke was 100% Yelig-Nar. Odium mentions that the Queen was unable to handle his possession. The epigraphs also mention that he had access to all surges and we see Amaram use multiple surges, and that he transforms a host after they swallow a gemstone.

Quote

Yelig-nar had great powers, perhaps the powers of all Surges compounded in one. He could transform any Voidbringer into an extremely dangerous enemy. Curiously, three legends I found mention swallowing a gemstone to engage this process. —From Hessi’s Mythica, page 27

Quote

“Well done, Meridas,” Odium said. “Abaray, could you provide this human with an appropriate housing for Yelig-nar?”

One of the Fused stepped forward and proffered a small, uncut smokestone toward the human, Meridas.

“And what is this?” Meridas asked.

“The fulfillment of my promise to you,” Odium said. “Swallow it.”

“What?”

“If you wish for the promised power, ingest that—then try to control the one who follows. But be warned, the queen at Kholinar tried this, and the power consumed her.”

I don't think there can be any doubt that the black smoke near Odium was Yelig-Nar.

[ghajan monk]

the question I have is why would Odium's Champion have black shardplate and nine shadows? there were only two or three of the unmade present at the battle. If we assume that Odium's Champion would bond the unmade shouldn't the rest of the unmade have been present? If not then why nine shadows?

[Blazenella]

On 11/21/2017 at 8:57 PM, Lightning said:

Now that I'm done reading Oathbringer, I have a ton of questions, many of which will probably only be answered in later books.  This thread is for people to share the questions they have that have not yet been answered.

Here are some of mine:

- Why did Moash have to be the one to use the dagger, and not the fused?  [Did it connect him to the Oathpact somehow?]

- Who was Vivenna chasing?  Mraize? What exactly was stolen?  [I'm guessing Nightblood.]

- If the cryptic that Hoid saved was Elhokar's, then why didn't it go back to the cognitive realm at his death?  Is it his son's?

- How did they save Elhokar's son from the queen's guard, in an occupied city, full of evil spren, unmade, etc...., etc...?  WOW!

- Who was the 10th person who was missing when the 3 realms were unified by Dalinar?

- When will Dalinar put it together that Szeth was hired by Taravangian?  Will Szeth tell Dalinar about the awful experiments done by Mr. T?

- What was the third powerful black spren with Odium at the end?  [Maybe I just missed it in the avalance at the end.  I don't think it was the Thrill spren.]

And of course, the biggest whopper of them all:

- How in the world will Brandon outdo himself for a 4th time in a row??!!  [That ending was amazing!!!]

- Not sure about the Moash thing, but most of the Fused are insane. It may also have t do with Odiums champion.

- Vivenna is after Nightblood, which somehow got into Nale's hands which he gave to Szeth.

- We don't really know a lot about what happens when a sprens bonded dies. What I think is happening is that the spren chose to stay. When Syl first came to Roshar she acted like a normal windspren, and maybe didn't know who she was going to bond, so maybe the Cryptic wanted to stay and bond someone else (Hoid)

- Magic

- Venli. She has (Most likley) bonded with a radiant spren and is on her way to becoming our first willshaper

- Mr T's downfall is most likley going to happen in book 4 or 5, but we don't know what Szeth will decide to do. If pressed he will probably tell, as he is a Skybreaker.

- Well, it could have been a number of Unmade (There were 9). I personally think it was either The Black Fisher, who we've had many vague references to, or maybe Moelach (The one that creates Death Rattles)

- Finally, how did Brandon out do himself? It's very obvious to me. Brandon is secretly a shard, with the intent of writing. Nothing else could explain his god like book quality and quantity.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Blazenella

[Blazenella]

28 minutes ago, ghajan monk said:

the question I have is why would Odium's Champion have black shardplate and nine shadows? there were only two or three of the unmade present at the battle. If we assume that Odium's Champion would bond the unmade shouldn't the rest of the unmade have been present? If not then why nine shadows?

There are 9 unmade in total

[The Invested Beard]

Questions? I have lots, but my biggest is Aimia. What the heck is going on there? I MUST KNOW!!!

[ghajan monk]

1 hour ago, Blazenella said:

There are 9 unmade in total

Yes but would they have bonded Dalinar? Or do the 9 shadows have some other significance? For instance representing Odium? As I was reading oathbringer I thought the 9 shadows represented the unmade but why wouldn't Odium have brought them when creating his champion? Only two (if the black smoke was indeed yelig-nar.) Were present. From my reading it seemed that Dalinar would have gained the black shardplate and 9 shadows immediately upon accepting that he was Odium's champion.

[Blazenella]

6 hours ago, ghajan monk said:

Yes but would they have bonded Dalinar? Or do the 9 shadows have some other significance? For instance representing Odium? As I was reading oathbringer I thought the 9 shadows represented the unmade but why wouldn't Odium have brought them when creating his champion? Only two (if the black smoke was indeed yelig-nar.) Were present. From my reading it seemed that Dalinar would have gained the black shardplate and 9 shadows immediately upon accepting that he was Odium's champion.

First off, it is speculated that there were actually 3 unmade there, but we don't know for sure, second the nine shadows could simply represent the unmade and not actually be them, and last, when a person swallows a gemstone with Yelig-Nar's power they gain all of the surges, this could be similar to what happens when Odium choses a champion and the nine shadows represent nine powers he has access to.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Blazenella

[thejopen27]

On 11/23/2017 at 2:10 AM, Ookla, the Incalculable said:

Per the Warbreaker annotations, if he hadn't done so before, he became bonded to Nightblood when he killed the prison warden. 

If you draw Nightblood and survive, you are bonded to him. 

Ishar is Tezim. This was confirmed between Dalinar and the Stormfather the first time we see the ahariatiem vision, in the cave around the Honorblades. 

@teknopathetic this is precisely why I'm convinced Cultivation is directly involved with the Diagram. In that setting, Odium projected the written words of the Diagram for both himself and Taravangian to see. For any part of that to be hidden another shard had to be actively blocking him. There is no way that Taravangian could have hidden his writing from a Shard. 

Is Bonding to Nightblood the same as bonding a Higher spren? Why should we assume it offers surges?

Yes Ishar is Tezim, but it's possible he is other people as well. His mad rantings as Tezim don't stop him from giving council and advice to Nale. I just think it might be possible that Ishar is also Restares. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by thejopen27

[thejopen27]

On 11/23/2017 at 4:45 AM, Ookla the Toasted said:

I doubt that Ishar is Restares. For all his faults, Amaram was a Vorin fanatic. Ishars behavior is heresy. So Amaram following Ishar would make no sense.

High ranking church guy is possible.

It's not a theory of mine, more a feeling, that Ishar fits as Restares. If so, Amaram would likely not know that Ishar was also Tezim. I'm probably wrong but the plan of the Sons of Honor is so crazy that it must either be from an insane Herald, an agent of Odium, or both. I think Ishar is both insane and either knowingly or unknowingly an agent of Odium. 

[Lightning]

Regarding the words of the Diagram that Odium couldn't see.  My wife mentioned that perhaps they were written on metal (or some other metal, specific to Oidum), which would make it harder for a shard to see.

[emailanimal]

On 11/26/2017 at 8:44 PM, Brightlord Maelstrom said:

What makes you say that?

Strongly implied by Timbre in her response to Venli's question "why me, it should be impossible". Page 1196.  I took Timbre's response to be a generalization on behalf of all Lightspren. There are strong hints elsewhere in the book that spren of a certain type engage in a bit of groupthink - ashespren appear to also be thoroughly pissed as a group (although we only see one Releaser's reactions). I drew a parallel.  Ashspren bond humans and betray Honor for Odium.  Lightspren are true to their nature, but won't bond humans anymore. It looked like a really nice contrast, and I made a bit of a leap. Rereading - the evidence is not as strong as I originally took it, but I still think that this is a strong possibility.

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom]

42 minutes ago, emailanimal said:

I took Timbre's response to be a generalization on behalf of all Lightspren. 

2

Hadn't thought of that. Still skeptical though. I see how you could think that, but I personally am more inclined to think that this is just Timbre's opinion not the opinion of the entire species of Spren.

[emailanimal]

4 minutes ago, Brightlord Maelstrom said:

Hadn't thought of that. Still skeptical though. I see how you could think that, but I personally am more inclined to think that this is just Timbre's opinion not the opinion of the entire species of Spren.

As I mentioned - I am less certain about it than when I originally wrote that sentence (and I mentioned it in a few other places), but I still think of this as a very likely scenario. Basically, the new Order of Willshapers are the new Listeners of the singers.