[OB] Questions to answer

[Lightning]

Now that I'm done reading Oathbringer, I have a ton of questions, many of which will probably only be answered in later books.  This thread is for people to share the questions they have that have not yet been answered.

Here are some of mine:

- Why did Moash have to be the one to use the dagger, and not the fused?  [Did it connect him to the Oathpact somehow?]

- Who was Vivenna chasing?  Mraize? What exactly was stolen?  [I'm guessing Nightblood.]

- If the cryptic that Hoid saved was Elhokar's, then why didn't it go back to the cognitive realm at his death?  Is it his son's?

- How did they save Elhokar's son from the queen's guard, in an occupied city, full of evil spren, unmade, etc...., etc...?  WOW!

- Who was the 10th person who was missing when the 3 realms were unified by Dalinar?

- When will Dalinar put it together that Szeth was hired by Taravangian?  Will Szeth tell Dalinar about the awful experiments done by Mr. T?

- What was the third powerful black spren with Odium at the end?  [Maybe I just missed it in the avalance at the end.  I don't think it was the Thrill spren.]

And of course, the biggest whopper of them all:

- How in the world will Brandon outdo himself for a 4th time in a row??!!  [That ending was amazing!!!]

[Seloun]

Just now, Lightning said:

Now that I'm done reading Oathbringer, I have a ton of questions, many of which will probably only be answered in later books.  This thread is for people to share the questions they have that have not yet been answered.

Here are some of mine:

- Why did Moash have to be the one to use the dagger, and not the fused?  [Did it connect him to the Oathpact somehow?]

- Who was Vivenna chasing?  Mraize? What exactly was stolen?  [I'm guessing Nightblood.]

- If the cryptic that Hoid saved was Elhokar's, then why didn't it go back to the cognitive realm at his death?  Is it his son's?

- How did they save Elhokar's son from the queen's guard, in an occupied city, full of evil spren, unmade, etc...., etc...?  WOW!

- Who was the 10th person who was missing when the 3 realms were unified by Dalinar?

- When will Dalinar put it together that Szeth was hired by Taravangian?  Will Szeth tell Dalinar about the awful experiments done by Mr. T?

- What was the third powerful black spren with Odium at the end?  [Maybe I just missed it in the avalance at the end.  I don't think it was the Thrill spren.]

And of course, the biggest whopper of them all:

- How in the world will Brandon outdo himself for a 4th time in a row??!!  [That ending was amazing!!!]

- Moash: I presume it's only usable by a human.

- Vivenna: She specifically says it's a sword that she's chasing (and the person who took it):

Quote

Shallan nodded, then glanced again at Azure’s sword. “You said … the honorspren have information on your bounty?”

“Yeah. Borea thinks the weapon I’m chasing passed through their fortress a few years ago.”

“Your bounty is a … weapon?”

“And the one who brought it to your land. A Shardblade that bleeds black smoke.”

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 1011). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

It might be Vasher, though her reaction if that's her actual quarry is a bit odd:

Quote

“It’s not that,” she said. “I simply have a different thread to chase, and besides, I left my men to fight these monsters in Kholinar. Doesn’t feel right to do the same again.” She smiled. “Don’t fear for me, Stormblessed. You will have a much better chance if I stay here—as will these sailors. When you boys next meet the swordsman who taught you that morning kata, warn him that I’m looking for him.”

“Zahel?” Adolin said. “You know Zahel?”

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 1031). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

While she says she's looking for him, she doesn't offer to go with them to find him, making me believe that he's not her primary target.

- Cryptic: Not sure why it would go back to the Cognitive because Elhokar died. No reason to think that's the case (not sure the spren would have enough self-awareness to even do so). What would be crazy is if this was actually Tien's spren who ended up following Kaladin to Elhokar.

- Elhokar's son: Magic. Probably literally, using the last bit of their connection to Kaladin's Windrunner powers. Being able to fly makes getting away somewhat easier.

- 10th person: Almost certainly Venli, who was there but Dalinar didn't know about.

- Szeth's hiring: AFAIK Dalinar already knows. Taravangian implies that he was forced to pre-emptively admit his objectives to Dalinar near the end because Szeth did or would in short order tell Dalinar what he knew about Taravangian.

- Third black spren: Um, no idea on this one. I must have missed it.

- How will fourth book be even better: by including more scenes with Jasnah.

[Fifth of Daybreak]

2 hours ago, Seloun said:

How will fourth book be even better: by including more scenes with Jasnah.

If anyone was going to slip by this post without giving it an upvote, could you do me a favor and give Seloun another one for me? One isn't enough.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Fifth of Daybreak

[emailanimal]

2 hours ago, Lightning said:

How in the world will Brandon outdo himself for a 4th time in a row??!!  [That ending was amazing!!!]

We are yet to see anyone say the Fourth Ideal on-screen (well, perhaps with the exception of Szeth, but it is rather anti-climatic for the Skybreakers).

At this point Dalinar has successfully one-upped Odium in a battle of wills and neutralized one Unmade. One. out of nine.  

The Releasers appear to be on the verge of outright betrayal.  Skybreakers have chosen to side with the singers (hopefully not with Odium). Willshapers will only bond the singers.

Alethkar is overrun. It is overrun by Alethi. They are just Alethi of a different species. A direct military solution (kill'em'all) appears to not be on the books.  The mundane singers are really pissed at humans.  They are also enslaved by Odium via powerforms and the Fused. The humans still think of the singers as their enemies, and it will take a while for them to figure out the difference.  There are whole peoples who have sided with Odium already.  And we are yet to see any sort of mass coming out of the Knights Radiant at the time when there is certainly no lack of the Fused.

As badass as Jasnah is, she can only be at one place at one time.

 

You think all of this cannot be turned into an epic ending of book 4?

Edited November 22, 2017 by emailanimal

[Frogs]

2 hours ago, Lightning said:

- What was the third powerful black spren with Odium at the end?  [Maybe I just missed it in the avalance at the end.  I don't think it was the Thrill spren.]

My theory is that that spren was Odium's real champion. Just like how the Fused took the bodies of Amaram and his men, the champion needed a body. So Odium had been preparing Dalinar to be the vessel of his champion. But since Dalinar resisted Odium, we didn't get a chance to actually see it in action, and it just left with Odium. My guess is that if Dalinar would have fallen, the spren would have taken over his body. And Dalinar was seeing that spren when he saw it in a vision in Part I.

[Calderis]

5 hours ago, Lightning said:

Mobile issue. Can't delete. 

5 hours ago, Lightning said:

- If the cryptic that Hoid saved was Elhokar's, then why didn't it go back to the cognitive realm at his death?  Is it his son's?

Spren transition into the physical realm prior to the bond itself and lose their sapience. If the Radiant they are bonded to dies, they regress. In Syl's words, "Remember, if you die, I go stupid." the Spren doesn't currently have the presence of mind, and may not have the ability to transition back. 

5 hours ago, Lightning said:

- How did they save Elhokar's son from the queen's guard, in an occupied city, full of evil spren, unmade, etc...., etc...?  WOW!

Kaladin and Shallan were both still alive, and technically in proximity to their squires. So slap an illusion on, and fly away looking like Fused. 

5 hours ago, Lightning said:

- Who was the 10th person who was missing when the 3 realms were unified by Dalinar?

Venli. She wasn't missing, Dalinar just failed to count her because she isn't human. 

5 hours ago, Lightning said:

- When will Dalinar put it together that Szeth was hired by Taravangian?  Will Szeth tell Dalinar about the awful experiments done by Mr. T?

He doesn't have to. Taravangian told him he hunted down the assassin in white and used him. The only question in my mind is why Dalinar didn't end him. Guess that whole "king of Jah Keved" thing is a major issue. 

As to the silent gatherers... Szeth is still kind of bonkers. Who knows what he'll offer without being asked. 

Quote

- What was the third powerful black spren with Odium at the end?  [Maybe I just missed it in the avalance at the end.  I don't think it was the Thrill spren.]

Yelig-nar. Who then went into the gemstone that Amaram swallowed. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Calderis

[Leyrann]

6 minutes ago, Calderis said:

allusion

Confusing spelling error. I suppose you mean illusion.

[Calderis]

1 minute ago, Leyrann said:

Confusing spelling error. I suppose you mean illusion.

Fixed. Thanks.

[Ari]

5 hours ago, Lightning said:

Now that I'm done reading Oathbringer, I have a ton of questions, many of which will probably only be answered in later books.  This thread is for people to share the questions they have that have not yet been answered.

Here are some of mine:

- Why did Moash have to be the one to use the dagger, and not the fused?  [Did it connect him to the Oathpact somehow?]

- Who was Vivenna chasing?  Mraize? What exactly was stolen?  [I'm guessing Nightblood.]

- If the cryptic that Hoid saved was Elhokar's, then why didn't it go back to the cognitive realm at his death?  Is it his son's?

- How did they save Elhokar's son from the queen's guard, in an occupied city, full of evil spren, unmade, etc...., etc...?  WOW!

- Who was the 10th person who was missing when the 3 realms were unified by Dalinar?

- When will Dalinar put it together that Szeth was hired by Taravangian?  Will Szeth tell Dalinar about the awful experiments done by Mr. T?

- What was the third powerful black spren with Odium at the end?  [Maybe I just missed it in the avalance at the end.  I don't think it was the Thrill spren.]

And of course, the biggest whopper of them all:

- How in the world will Brandon outdo himself for a 4th time in a row??!!  [That ending was amazing!!!]

As for Moash using the dagger: It's entirely possible that Odium is bound by an agreement he made with Honour, and is not able to directly attack the oathpact himself, (despite being able to traditionally "kill" the heralds, then torture them to speed up the next Desolation) through his Spren and Thunderclasts, or through his Singer followers, but the recruitment of human collaborators has finally allowed him a loophole to get around that binding. This is my operating guess at the moment as to why there was so much ceremony around Moash wielding that Raysium fabrial-dagger.

Vivenna/Azure does ask the Roshar gang to warn Zahel for her, so while it's not 100%, it's entirely possible this means he's the one who brought Nightblood with him and that she's ended up chasing him, but I'm open and marginally hopeful for the idea of some other target, and that "warning" Zahel was intended to simply refer to her being around on Roshar, or that she's simply wanting them to warn him of the danger, but on checking back into that passage after discussing it with my brother, I think assuming she's after Zahel is probably a reasonable call and the leading assumption.

I don't expect any particular answers to your next two questions, if you're really curious, how Gavinor was saved might be a good signing question.

Dalinar was referring to the ten Orders of the Knights Radiant. If you count Taln as a Stoneward (which he may be if Nale is wrong about himself being the only Herald who swore his own oaths) and presume Malata is in attendance at the battle, then the Willshapers are the one Dalinar thinks are missing. Of course, we know that Venli is now secretly a Willshaper, and has turned against Odium, even if she's arguably just as against the humans.

Do you have a quote for the powerful Spren? I take it this wasn't one of the ones that inhabited the Thunderclasts, and I assume you don't mean Nergaoul?

 

[Leyrann]

3 hours ago, Ari said:

Dalinar was referring to the ten Orders of the Knights Radiant. If you count Taln as a Stoneward (which he may be if Nale is wrong about himself being the only Herald who swore his own oaths) and presume Malata is in attendance at the battle, then the Willshapers are the one Dalinar thinks are missing. Of course, we know that Venli is now secretly a Willshaper, and has turned against Odium, even if she's arguably just as against the humans.

Malata wasn't in attendance, but there's a theory that Ash will become a dustbringer.

[Fifth of Daybreak]

5 hours ago, Ari said:

Vivenna/Azure does ask the Roshar gang to warn Zahel for her, so while it's not 100%, it's entirely possible this means he's the one who brought Nightblood with him and that she's ended up chasing him, but I'm open and marginally hopeful for the idea of some other target, and that "warning" Zahel was intended to simply refer to her being around on Roshar, or that she's simply wanting them to warn him of the danger, but on checking back into that passage after discussing it with my brother, I think assuming she's after Zahel is probably a reasonable call and the leading assumption

She directly states to warn him that she's looking for him. I don't even think we need to assume at this point.

Quote

"When you boys next meet the swordsman who taught you that morning kata, warn him that I’m looking for him.”

110 A Million Stars

 

[Lightning]

Thank you for your thoughts on my questions!  [I think the Calderis is probably right about Yelig-nar being that third black spren more powerful than the two thunderclasts.  I also like that thought about Venli being #10 that some people posited.  I also like the theories about the dagger.]

Now, what questions did you feel the book left unanswered?  I'm interested to see what others are thinking about!

[Govir]

@Fifth of Daybreak Based on the wording "I'm looking for him," I'm hopeful that she's just looking for him for information. I don't think he's the one who brought Nightblood to Roshar.

I think someone stole Nightblood while on Nalthis, and brought it to Roshar. Vasher immediately went chasing after it, but Vivenna stayed back (maybe to finish something). Now she's on the trail as well, and is trying to meet back up with Zahel.

If she was truly hunting him, I think she would have stuck closer to Adolin and crew since they seem to know where he is. I also think she would have worded her warning as "I'm coming for him."

[WhiteLeeopard]

My main question is not a question as much as wanting to know if we'll ever get the scene of the chat between Szeth and Dalinar. 

Actual questions:

• Is Szeth bonded to Nightblood or to a highspren or to both? His identical skybreaker surges make no sense if its Nightblood, plus Nightblood will probably not care about the Oaths he is saying. If its a highspren in addition to Nightblood, why haven't we seen it? 
• What is going on exactly with Renarin? Which Void powers if any does he have?
• Are the Sons of Honor finished or will they reappear? What was the grudge the Ghostbloods had with them about?
• What in Damnation is the GB's goals?
• How many Oaths has Jasnah said? 3 or 4?
• When will we see Urithiru wake up?
• Is Venli a normal KR or will she have some voidy powers too?
• Will Kaladin return for his parents to take them to Urithiru? At this point not going with him is basically selfish and irresponsible, as the Fused will almost certainly target the parents of the leader of the Windrunners to put them with a knife to their throats in front of Kaladin at the worst possible time, and order him to stand down and watch the world burn, or his parents die.

I'm sure I can think of more, these are just the first I could remember.

[gbazz4]

9 hours ago, Calderis said:

Kaladin and Shallan were both still alive, and technically in proximity to their squires. So slap an illusion on, and fly away looking like Fused. 

 

I also thought at the end when Skar and Drehy showed Kaladin Elhokar's son that Drehy said "We protect those who cannot protect themselves." Which to me i thought signaled that they had said the 2nd ideal and were on their own way to becoming radiants vs remaining squires. 

1 hour ago, Lightning said:

Now, what questions did you feel the book left unanswered?  I'm interested to see what others are thinking about!

I am still trying to figure out what was going on with the "I am Unity!" scene? Was it Dalinar starting to reforge honor (since Syl says essentially he created Honor's Perpendicularity)? Was it him saying a next ideal of the bondsmith (Since the stormfather said "these words are accepted)? Was it him making a new shard kind of like harmony (since he has been touched by Odium via the Thrill, Cultivation via his visit to her and the Nightwatcher, and Honor via living by the ideals of the KR)? or was it something else that happened?

 A few other questions i had:

Is Shallan over her identity crisis issues? 

Will Shallan tell Jasnah about her involvement with the Ghostbloods?

What is going to happen with Eshonai (she is supposed to get he own book at some point right? so is she going to be resurrected somehow? like what was the little ball of white fire spren that was near Eshonai and is that going to play into how she maybe gets resurrected?)?

[Leyrann]

8 minutes ago, gbazz4 said:

What is going to happen with Eshonai (she is supposed to get he own book at some point right? so is she going to be resurrected somehow? like what was the little ball of white fire spren that was near Eshonai and is that going to play into how she maybe gets resurrected?)?

Brandon has explicitly said that, just because characters get flashback books, they don't need to be alive for them. So Eshonai might very well just stay dead.

[Lightning]

32 minutes ago, gbazz4 said:

Is Shallan over her identity crisis issues? 

I think that one is a definite no.  

As for the Ghostbloods, Shallan keeps acting like she is not working for them, but she keeps doing what they want!  Perhaps the true test will be whether or not she helps Sja.

[Leyrann]

23 minutes ago, Lightning said:

I think that one is a definite no.  

As for the Ghostbloods, Shallan keeps acting like she is not working for them, but she keeps doing what they want!  Perhaps the true test will be whether or not she helps Sja.

The thing is, the Ghostblood's goals have, so far, aligned with the KR's goals.

[soulcastJam]

24 minutes ago, Lightning said:

As for the Ghostbloods, Shallan keeps acting like she is not working for them, but she keeps doing what they want!  Perhaps the true test will be whether or not she helps Sja.

This is classic manipulation technique. You ask someone to do something that they would do anyway to get them in the habit of listening to you. Even if you don't like them, you are associated with them.

[Solant]

16 hours ago, Lightning said:

. 

- How did they save Elhokar's son from the queen's guard, in an occupied city, full of evil spren, unmade, etc...., 

This is the SA equivalent to "Rogue One". We will get a novella about in 30 years

[Fourth Of The Night]

2 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

My main question is not a question as much as wanting to know if we'll ever get the scene of the chat between Szeth and Dalinar. 

Actual questions:

• Is Szeth bonded to Nightblood or to a highspren or to both? His identical skybreaker surges make no sense if its Nightblood, plus Nightblood will probably not care about the Oaths he is saying. If its a highspren in addition to Nightblood, why haven't we seen it? 

Szeth is Bonded to Nightblood, but we haven't seen anything manifest in the way of surges yet. He was a Squire, and now he is bonded to a Highspren, though we don't know its name yet.

[WhiteLeeopard]

Szeth and Nightblood was one of the things I most wanted to see on OB, and only half of the questions about them were answered.  

[IndigoAjah]

14 hours ago, emailanimal said:

We are yet to see anyone say the Fourth Ideal on-screen (well, perhaps with the exception of Szeth, but it is rather anti-climatic for the Skybreakers).

At this point Dalinar has successfully one-upped Odium in a battle of wills and neutralized one Unmade. One. out of nine.  

The Releasers appear to be on the verge of outright betrayal.  Skybreakers have chosen to side with the singers (hopefully not with Odium). Willshapers will only bond the singers.

Alethkar is overrun. It is overrun by Alethi. They are just Alethi of a different species. A direct military solution (kill'em'all) appears to not be on the books.  The mundane singers are really pissed at humans.  They are also enslaved by Odium via powerforms and the Fused. The humans still think of the singers as their enemies, and it will take a while for them to figure out the difference.  There are whole peoples who have sided with Odium already.  And we are yet to see any sort of mass coming out of the Knights Radiant at the time when there is certainly no lack of the Fused.

As badass as Jasnah is, she can only be at one place at one time.

 

Or CAN she?!?!

[rjl]

14 hours ago, emailanimal said:

We are yet to see anyone say the Fourth Ideal on-screen (well, perhaps with the exception of Szeth, but it is rather anti-climatic for the Skybreakers).

Pretty sure he only did the 3rd ideal; his fourth will require the completion of a crusade - his planned cleansing of the Shin.

[Arch]

5 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Is Szeth bonded to Nightblood or to a highspren or to both? His identical skybreaker surges make no sense if its Nightblood, plus Nightblood will probably not care about the Oaths he is saying. If its a highspren in addition to Nightblood, why haven't we seen it? 

He's definitely bonded to Nightblood, but thats not where his surge binding is coming. The way Skybreakers work is that they dont get their spren until their 3rd ideal (before then theyre just acolytes then later squires). When the senior Skybreakers explain this to him they speak as if they fully expect him to attract a highspren eventually.
 

Quote

He bowed his head. “I may swear the Second Ideal?”

“You may. Justice will serve you until you attract a spren and swear to a more specific code. During my prayers last night, Winnow proclaimed the highspren are watching you. I won’t be surprised if it takes mere months before you achieve the Third Ideal.”

Months. No, he would not take months. But he did not swear quite yet.

As far as why we haven't seen the spren yet, you have to remember that Szeth didnt actually speak his 3rd ideal, until after the battle. So during the fight he was just a squire (thats also why he couldnt use division). Perhaps Nightblood changes things, but so far I see no reason to believe szeths highspren won't show up soon.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Arch