Calderis

[OB] The Dagger.

39 posts in this topic

I have been struggling trying think of what in damnation that dagger could be, and I think my brain just leapt to a valid possibility. 

Tanavast created the Honorblade for the Heralds with the specific purpose of granting Surgebinding. 

Rayse created a blade of his own. Instead of granting an ability, it's intended to end the Oathpact. 

Edit: and the gem in the pommel is a sapphire. To match Jezrien. Ten blades for ten Heralds? 

Edited by Calderis
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I would guess it has trapped Jezrien's soul.  

The heralds are being spun out, again and again, to alternately imprison or protect.  This can't happen if they are killed and stopped from reforming.

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I believe it's a form of Hemalurgy. The gem makes it so the power doesn't leak, similar to blood.

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4 hours ago, Aoibheann said:

I would guess it has trapped Jezrien's soul.  

The heralds are being spun out, again and again, to alternately imprison or protect.  This can't happen if they are killed and stopped from reforming.

Would the Oathpact prevent this from happening?

I don't believe we've seen the actual term of the deal, but Shards evidently can't break oaths. I think he might be able to stop a few of them, but if 1 of the Heralds dies normally or returns willingly then they would be able to take their place again.

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Scratch all of it. Voting Dawnshard. 

Quote

 

Taking the Dawnshard, known to bind any creature voidish or mortal, he crawled up the steps crafted for Heralds, ten strides tall apiece, toward the grand temple above.

Sounds good to me. 

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20 hours ago, Aoibheann said:

I would guess it has trapped Jezrien's soul.  

The heralds are being spun out, again and again, to alternately imprison or protect.  This can't happen if they are killed and stopped from reforming.

Yeah, this was my guess elsewhere- Odium is making a play to make the desolations permanent by trapping the souls of the heralds so that they can't ressurect, essentially a direct opposite of Jasnah's strategy, and a counterpart to what Dalinar did to Nergaoul.

6 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Scratch all of it. Voting Dawnshard. 

Sounds good to me. 

Could be! It's entirely possible that this is actually compatible with the theory above- Odium's recruitment of human collaborators has allowed him to go after the dawnshards when he previously couldn't.

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22 hours ago, Shuffel said:

I believe it's a form of Hemalurgy. The gem makes it so the power doesn't leak, similar to blood.

If its Hemalurgy, should Moash then not have been more careful to where precisely he stabbed Jezrien? Instead it looks a bit randomly "in the gut".

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4 hours ago, Calderis said:

Scratch all of it. Voting Dawnshard. 

Sounds good to me. 

What's this quote from?

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16 minutes ago, Matt Snow said:

What's this quote from?

Epigraphs (WoK I think, maybe WoR)

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Moderate speculation:

I thought it was telling that Jezrien's Honorblade was stolen to some unknown location...  then a magic dagger that extra-killed him appeared.  Could the Honorblade have been corrupted (gold) and modified to be the only weapon capable of killing the Herald?

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47 minutes ago, redbishop said:

Moderate speculation:

I thought it was telling that Jezrien's Honorblade was stolen to some unknown location...  then a magic dagger that extra-killed him appeared.  Could the Honorblade have been corrupted (gold) and modified to be the only weapon capable of killing the Herald?

I'm pretty sure it wasn't since Moash is given Jezrien's Honorblade at the end of book when the Fused ask him if he still wants to serve. If this happened then it was also turned back into an Honorblade.

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3 minutes ago, Matt Snow said:

I'm pretty sure it wasn't since Moash is given Jezrien's Honorblade at the end of book when the Fused ask him if he still wants to serve. If this happened then it was also turned back into an Honorblade.

Well played.  This is what I get for speculating without references!  Speculation retracted, and now I feel like my first reading was pure enjoyment, and I need to re-read/listen exclusively to actually understand it and be able to speculate intelligently.

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I'm behind the dagger-as-Dawnshard, particularly with the poem mentioning its power to bind any creature. So if it is a Dawnshard, and Jezrien is bound within the Dawnshard, where are the others and what comes of it? Is Jezrien going to come back out, or is he really truly dead and gone forever? Was it just the investiture that was captured, while the soul was discarded?

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4 hours ago, Matt Snow said:

What's this quote from?

It's the "Poem of Ista."

It's the chapter 36 epigraph from tWoK. 

Thank you coppermind.net

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What did that metal sound like to you? I really think the metal pulled the spirit in with hemelurgy, and then the Gem further pulled in the investiture into the perfect storage device. The knife was described as yellow/gold and white - is that atium, or maybe Odium's god metal?

Do we think there are UnMade fabrials and Herald fabrials? What would a herald give its user?

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We dont know much of Dawnshards, do we? Well, the idea that the Herald Extermination Dagger = Dawnshard is plausible but I'm not convinced by anything yet, as I don't think there is enough evidence. 

I sincerely doubt that it is a Hemalurgic spike though. For one, Moash don't know a thing about binding points. Secondly, Brandon would limit Cosmere references that are plot-relevant. Third, I can't see the point? What would a Herald grant (hard to answer, since they are cognitive shadows but in physical bodies, if I know my Cosmere lore right)? And also, if Odium wanted to steal something from Jezrien (unlikely, in my opinion), then why not use a regular spike? The whole point of having a hemalurgically invested object is to shove it into someone to give them a power-up. It would be unpractical to have someone walk around permanently pierced by a dagger, of all things.

I am more into the "trapping Jezriens soul" idea. And I think that he is permanently gone. Heralds dying for real will probably become an issue. 

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I'm also behind Dawnshard. They're supposed to be weapons (or tools) of great power. Tanavast/Honor wondered how humanity would survive without the Dawnshards, and the only other mention we have of them mentions their ability to bind anyone/thing, "Voidish or mortal."

My second guess is anti-Herald blades, as Splinters of Odium, although I doubt Odium would ever weaken himself in that manner. If this is the case, I propose we call them Damnshards, because that was a typo I just made in this very post that was apropos. 

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2 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

What did that metal sound like to you? I really think the metal pulled the spirit in with hemelurgy, and then the Gem further pulled in the investiture into the perfect storage device. The knife was described as yellow/gold and white - is that atium, or maybe Odium's god metal?

It matches the description of Nicrosil, which in Feruchemy is used to store Investiture. While it might be the Dawnshard, I am more convinced that its function is based on the hemalurgic property of the metal (conjecture, since the properties of Nicrosil are unknown).

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I had the big ruby pegged for a dawnshard, but this is also a possibility. Could be a form of fabrial though, for trapping the spren of the person it killed.

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I think it’s basically the blinding knife from Lightbringer. It sucked away whatever kind of investiture was making Jezrien immortal and stored it in the gemstone, so he died from his knife wound like any normal person. I’d guess Moash will be given that immortality in a similar way, if it wasn’t already transferred to him automatically. That would explain why the fused couldn’t do the job themselves

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39 minutes ago, demi said:

It matches the description of Nicrosil, which in Feruchemy is used to store Investiture. While it might be the Dawnshard, I am more convinced that its function is based on the hemalurgic property of the metal (conjecture, since the properties of Nicrosil are unknown).

Any shard can emulate any power another shard uses. Odium has glanced over Scadrial, he could have made a nicrosil copy or variant.

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He very easily could have done so, I just think the timing is super convenient, given that we're provided with Aluminum (from Scadrial? Certainly it's been worldhopped) in this book as well. Signs point to metals being trafficked between the two worlds.

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49 minutes ago, demi said:

He very easily could have done so, I just think the timing is super convenient, given that we're provided with Aluminum (from Scadrial? Certainly it's been worldhopped) in this book as well. Signs point to metals being trafficked between the two worlds.

Aluminum already exists on Roshar. Shallan had a soulcast necklace given to her by her father in her flashbacks. 

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20 hours ago, Ari said:

Yeah, this was my guess elsewhere- Odium is making a play to make the desolations permanent by trapping the souls of the heralds so that they can't ressurect, essentially a direct opposite of Jasnah's strategy, and a counterpart to what Dalinar did to Nergaoul.

But Odium doesn't want a permanent desolation, he wants to break humanity to force them to release him, or otherwise break the Oathpact. He wants to escape Roshar (after dealing with Cultivation.)

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