[OB] Poll: Which news will the coalition take worse?

[WhiteLeeopard]

Which of the news the protagonists find out at the end of OB will the coalition take worse assuming the Kholins disclose all?

All in all, I think the next coalition meeting will be fun .

Edited February 11, 2018 by WhiteLeeopard
Added last option

[thegatorgirl00]

Overall, I think the news about the Skybreakers, just because of the immediate 'we're doomed' reaction that will cause. It will, however, depend partially on the person. Jasnah, for example, will probably react most strongly to the news of Jezrien because of its implications. 

[mariapapadia]

I would say Renarin bonding a corrupted spren. Because it's directly connected with someone from Dalinar's family and they already have problems with trusting him. I think it will add up with the whole Dalinar hiding visions of Odium from them and the highking stuff. 

[WhiteLeeopard]

I knew I was forgetting 1 more option ^^. (Dalinar-Odium agreement to the champion fight). If anyone remembers another important tidbit tell me and I will add it to the options.

[Egomere]

I'm not sure I can choose - I mean all of them could have some Serious repercusions and anyone of them could lead to the coalition falling apart.

I'm not even sure that it would be better or worse if they are revealed over time or all at once... As I said all of them could screw with any aspect of the coalition as we know it... although Jasnah as Regent-Queen could probably handle them.

[WhiteLeeopard]

I made this thread soon after I finished OB, then it quickly fell under the onslaught of 20 threads created daily back on the first week. I am genuinely curious on what people think to this question, so I really hope no-one minds that I brought it back to see if more people that finished OB and had time to theorize could give their opinions on the poll.  

Edited February 10, 2018 by WhiteLeeopard

[digitalbusker]

I think we're discounting the impact of "Jezrien's dead" on the non-Vorin nations.

[maxal]

How about Dalinar's son did kill Torol Sadeas thus making the betrayal of his former princedom not only understandable, but suddenly justifiable. How many will really believe Dalinar was not behind it? Had he just spend an entire book trying to convince the world he has changed just so the world could see.... he hasn't. 

[The One Who Connects]

1 hour ago, digitalbusker said:

I think we're discounting the impact of "Jezrien's dead" on the non-Vorin nations.

I have to agree. Nalan's Betrayal holds impact since he's a Herald, so the same reasoning should apply for news of Jezrien's Death. More so, since the "Kadasix of Kings" was/is the big name deity in a few of those foreign religions(the Makabaki, for example).

---

Szeth being bound to Dalinar's word is gonna go one of four ways. 1) Nalan(Skybreaker) betrayal is revealed, and Szeth's decision to stay puts him in a positive light. 2) Taravangian's actions are revealed, and outrage shifts towards him, leaving Szeth in the background. 3) Neither are revealed, and suspicion shifts to Dalinar(or Szeth's radiance serves to tarnish people's view of them) 4) Both are revealed, and Szeth gets shoved even further into the background as people have two bigger targets to focus their rage at.

Renarin's Corrupted Spren is gonna potentially shine a negative light on the Radiant Reputation, and Kholin refusal to act is gonna smack of favoritism, but beyond that? I don't see this making that big of waves until we know more about what the corruption entails.

Jezrien's death mentioned above, as is Nalan's betrayal. I'd put them roughly equal, since Jezrien being a bigger deal is balanced out by the tarnish on the Radiant Reputation from the Skybreaker betrayal.

Dalinar's Ascension... not sure how this one'll play out.

Taravangian's actions mentioned in the Szeth bit.

Dalinar's deal with the metaphorical devil is gonna be a big deal if word gets out. "You're putting this entire [world] at risk on your hope that [one man] can do what your entire force could not?" - General Pong Krell (3 words difference)

[Stormlightning]

3 hours ago, maxal said:

How about Dalinar's son did kill Torol Sadeas thus making the betrayal of his former princedom not only understandable, but suddenly justifiable. How many will really believe Dalinar was not behind it? Had he just spend an entire book trying to convince the world he has changed just so the world could see.... he hasn't. 

I was just thinking this. We've been thinking that Adolin got off easy, but maybe we've yet to see the real backlash...

 

These were all good points, but I chose Dalinar's Ascension because the coalition is already bothered enough by Dalinar's being put on a pedestal/speaking for God/etc. There's a good chance this will never really come up, but if it does, I imagine it will rub a lot of people the wrong way.

[Brightlord Brooding-Eyes]

5 hours ago, maxal said:

How about Dalinar's son did kill Torol Sadeas thus making the betrayal of his former princedom not only understandable, but suddenly justifiable. How many will really believe Dalinar was not behind it? Had he just spend an entire book trying to convince the world he has changed just so the world could see.... he hasn't. 

This. The coalition already have very little trust in Dalinar as it is. If Adolin murdering Sadeas were to become widely known, that knowledge combined with the fact that the assassin who killed the monarchs of every major nation (except for Alekthar) is suddenly working for Dalinar will make it hard to believe that he isn't trying to take over the world.

[Kureshi Ironclaw]

I would say that the knowledge that Szeth is sworn to Dalinar, on top of the revelation that Taravangian sent Szeth originally, has the most potential to completely break apart the coalition. The Skybreakers switching sides is pretty scary for them, but it is an external threat, while Szeth's history is an internal conflict that makes both Taravangian and Dalinar less able to be trusted by the other members of the coalition.

[MountainKing]

13 hours ago, Brightlord Brooding-Eyes said:

This. The coalition already have very little trust in Dalinar as it is. If Adolin murdering Sadeas were to become widely known, that knowledge combined with the fact that the assassin who killed the monarchs of every major nation (except for Alekthar) is suddenly working for Dalinar will make it hard to believe that he isn't trying to take over the world.

He first killed Gavilar, that is where he got his name as the assassin in white.

[WhiteLeeopard]

1 hour ago, MountainKing said:

He first killed Gavilar, that is where he got his name as the assassin in white.

If they really want to, the other rulers can claim killing Gavilar was the first step in making a power grab by Dalinar. After all, Dalinar was never going to have the kind of power he has now if Gavilar had been alive.

[TequilaJack]

That Tarvangian sent Assasin in White is still not public knowledge, right? 

My list: 

1. Adolin killed Sadeas - the most relatable to other rulers and possibly to gain edge over Kholin family in negotiations. 

2. Nalan and Skybreakers joined Odium - this would be the most disheartening as an already powerful enemy just got a strong Ally. Many would think of giving up and running. 

3. Renarin bonding corrupted Spren - this causes confusing and is a cloud over all Radiants. Whom to trust? Which Spren is corrupted? Very damaging in an alliance.

[Brightlord Brooding-Eyes]

9 hours ago, MountainKing said:

He first killed Gavilar, that is where he got his name as the assassin in white.

I realised after I posted that someone would respond with this! I was referring to the killings he did for Taravangian, I was thinking the coalition might not connect Gavilar's assassination due to the large time gap between the assassin killing Gavilar and the rest of the world leaders.  But as @WhiteLeeopard said it's more likely that the coalition would assume Dalinar was involved in Gavilar's assassination too.

If the coalition thinks that Dalinar had Gavilar assassinated and then framed the Parshendi, it will all the more damnation him in their eyes while creating sympathy for the enemy.

5 hours ago, TequilaJack said:

That Tarvangian sent Assasin in White is still not public knowledge, right?

I don't think so. Correct me if I'm wrong, but even Dalinar doesn't know yet, right? I would think upon Szeth swearing to Dalinar the first thing Dalinar would do is question Szeth as to who sent him. I guess he's just assumed Szeth was working for the Parshendi the whole time. You think Szeth would volunteer the information himself ("by the way, your closest ally ordered me to kill you and all the other monarchs") but maybe some part of the truthless code prevents him from divulging what a previous master ordered him to do.

[WhiteLeeopard]

2 hours ago, Brightlord Brooding-Eyes said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even Dalinar doesn't know yet, right? I would think upon Szeth swearing to Dalinar the first thing Dalinar would do is question Szeth as to who sent him. I guess he's just assumed Szeth was working for the Parshendi the whole time. You think Szeth would volunteer the information himself ("by the way, your closest ally ordered me to kill you and all the other monarchs") but maybe some part of the truthless code prevents him from divulging what a previous master ordered him to do.

Szeth was never truthless, so no part of those rules apply to him and he knows it. Problem is Szeth is not too good at sharing information. He may make an exception for Dalinar as he has sworn to follow him as his Third Oath, which is pretty big, but we'll see.

I'm slowly re-reading OB, so can't say with certainty, but I think T himself told Dalinar about using Szeth to kill the monarchs. Of course T did it because he wanted to put his own spin on things and assumed the moment he saw Szeth around that he would divulge all to Dalinar. 

[Brightlord Brooding-Eyes]

3 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Szeth was never truthless, so no part of those rules apply to him and he knows it. Problem is Szeth is not too good at sharing information. He may make an exception for Dalinar as he has sworn to follow him as his Third Oath, which is pretty big, but we'll see.

I'm slowly re-reading OB, so can't say with certainty, but I think T himself told Dalinar about using Szeth to kill the monarchs. Of course T did it because he wanted to put his own spin on things and assumed the moment he saw Szeth around that he would divulge all to Dalinar. 

True, maybe we'll find out more about his "code" in Szeth's flashback book.

I'm re-reading too at it at the moment so I don't want to skip ahead and look it up, but I know T held back some things when talking to Dalinar. I remember him telling him he leaked the information that underminded Dalinar's authority, you may be right and he told him about Szeth too (seems like it would be a prudent course of action as with Szeth following Dalinar he's bound to find out about it eventually).

[WhiteLeeopard]

1 minute ago, Brightlord Brooding-Eyes said:

I'm re-reading too at it at the moment so I don't want to skip ahead and look it up, but I know T held back some things when talking to Dalinar. I remember him telling him he leaked the information that underminded Dalinar's authority, you may be right and he told him about Szeth too (seems like it would be a prudent course of action as with Szeth following Dalinar he's bound to find out about it eventually).

I think the only reason T came forward was because Szeth came into the picture. What T seems to have held back is the Diagram itself, and made it appear that his ideas and decisions came witht he help of his advisors and of Battar who is in Kharbranth.

Problem is, that if Dalinar has learnt anything in OB it should be to not keep secrets. He should put all on the table, including T's actions. But I fear he won't talk of T knowing the coalition would be destroyed. It would be typical Dalinar to keep a secret to maintain the coalition only for that secret to be the cause of its complete destruction later on. The only thing to give us hope on T's genious actions (sarcasm) is Cultivation's mysterious hand moving events and her ability to play the long game with nearly invisible strings.

[Brightlord Brooding-Eyes]

1 minute ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Problem is, that if Dalinar has learnt anything in OB it should be to not keep secrets. He should put all on the table, including T's actions. But I fear he won't talk of T knowing the coalition would be destroyed. It would be typical Dalinar to keep a secret to maintain the coalition only for that secret to be the cause of its complete destruction later on. The only thing to give us hope on T's genious actions (sarcasm) is Cultivation's mysterious hand moving events and her ability to play the long game with nearly invisible strings.

Agreed on both points. And Dalinar has so many secrets now! Not just from the coalition, eventually he'll need to tell Adolin and Renarin that he was responsible for their mother's death, which as far as I know he hasn't told anyone yet? I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have had a chance to tell Adolin anyway.

[WhiteLeeopard]

6 minutes ago, Brightlord Brooding-Eyes said:

Agreed on both points. And Dalinar has so many secrets now! Not just from the coalition, eventually he'll need to tell Adolin and Renarin that he was responsible for their mother's death, which as far as I know he hasn't told anyone yet? I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have had a chance to tell Adolin anyway.

Honestly...a secret not shared or known is a secret kept . However when you are talking about secrets in private with people you trust, is when things get dicey as a spy or spren can hear all and report. On Evi's death, Dalinar could keep that secret if he wanted to as no-one knows, but he is too honorable and will likely tell it eventually. I just hope Adolin doesn't completely fall appart when he finds out how his mother died. With Renarin there is always the chance he has seen it already.

[digitalbusker]

Dalinar definitely knows that Taravangian sent Szeth on his latest rampage. Taravangian lied to him about why, but he spun a plausible yarn that wouldn't necessarily conflict with anything Szeth could tell him. He was definitely trying to get out ahead of the story.

[StormingTexan]

Quote

Nalan and the Skybreakers have joined Odium's side

Just a side note this very well may appear this way to the coalition however I think it is incorrect. Nale joined the side of the Singers not necessarily Odium. I would say to ultimately not be under anyones control Shard or Humans. If the battle of Thaylen is any indication he is taking a neutral role in the war between Odium and Humans. 

[Fifth Scholar]

Definitely the Skybreakers in my opinion. It mainly weakens Dalinar, as others will wonder if

1)Dalinar can keep control of these mysterious “Radiants”

2)Dalinar himself isn’t susceptible to betrayal

3)Dalinar has the ability to stop a full order of Radiants that has gone rogue. 

Plus, of course, the immediate threat they would pose to the coalition could cause many to panic, exacerbating the other issues dividing the coalition. If I couldn’t vote on the Skybreakers, I’d definitely say Dalinar’s deal with Odium is the most worrying to other coalition members, as Dalinar made the deal without their agreement, and the fate of the world could rest on it.

[Carla Bridge Four]

I think the Coalition will not last as it is, but that new Radiants from different places are going to change the views of people. Things are getting weird and won't last as they were. Renarin bound a corrupted spren, one of the Unmade may be not longer willing to side with Odium, Venli bound to a not-void spren... and Kaladin and his Windrunners have a Listener in their team.

So the coalition will sooner or later, imho, have listeners/singers as there are humans siding with Odium. It's gonna get wicked, both in terms of politics and religion.

We will see!

Nice poll by the way