Jungah

[OB] Compilation of Oathbringer Chapter Headings

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3 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

Random thought. Did the sphere which Gavilar gave Szeth held Ba-Ado-Mishran? 

I think it might have been Yelig-nar, and I don't think the spren has to be inside the gemstone...... does it? I'm pretty new to this whole theory thing.

 

edit: whoops i read that wrong. maybe? at this point i'm guessing on everything

Edited by Jungah
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I think the section with the previous radiants is interesting, it shows how even back then the truthwatchers spren were being corrupted because one mentions seeing the future

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5 hours ago, [email protected] said:

Random thought. Did the sphere which Gavilar gave Szeth hold Ba-Ado-Mishran? 

Likely not; most spheres are not perfect gems, which may be a condition required to hold one of the Unmade.  I suspect the size of the gemstone is relevant as well, which most spheres would likely fail on.  The spheres Gavilar had that he was giving out, were likely holding Voidlight he acquired from one of the Unmade.  Which one that was, is the real question.  It's quite possible he found Ba-Ado-Mishram and stored her perfect gemstone prison with his things, but it's just as possible he found one of the others still trapped as well.  Chemoarish is unaccounted for as well, after all.  Sja-anat and Dai-gonarthis are likely out and active.

It's just as likely that Gavilar found Ashertmarn or Yelig-nar, though.  I am honestly inclined to think he found Ashertmarn, though, because its appearance is rather sudden in Kholinar.  It's entirely possible he found more than one of the Unmade.  How does that explain the Voidlight spheres?  If Shadesmar spren have devices that can deposit Investiture into a perfect gem, then it's just as possible to withdraw it from one.  Navani said that Gavilar "made" it, and we know Nergaoul was shown to be made of Voidlight when he was captured, so, it stands to reason Gavilar could have snipped off a piece of Unmade Investiture into a sphere with some help from an artifabrian.

Edited by dvoraen
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2 hours ago, Guybrud said:

I think the section with the previous radiants is interesting, it shows how even back then the truthwatchers spren were being corrupted because one mentions seeing the future

Now I'm not saying you are wrong, but I am  going to play devil's advocate. It is possible to foresee things without "seeing the future". If you have enough information, you can predict future outcomes. For example, if a Truthwatcher saw the truth of the current state of the division of the KR and understood the truth of Honour "changing" and knew the truth that surgebinding had effectively destroyed the previous world the human's had lived on, and knew the humans were invaders etc etc etc It is not so hard a leap to see that the decline of the KR was, basically, inevitable at that point. Indeed, a person would remember if they correctly predicted something, but forget if they didn't. I am not sure that this must make us assume that the Truthwatchers had been corrupted - it seems equally possible that they weren't in my mind. 

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2 hours ago, dvoraen said:

Likely not; most spheres are not perfect gems, which may be a condition required to hold one of the Unmade.  I suspect the size of the gemstone is relevant as well, which most spheres would likely fail on.  The spheres Gavilar had that he was giving out, were likely holding Voidlight he acquired from one of the Unmade.  Which one that was, is the real question.  It's quite possible he found Ba-Ado-Mishram and stored her perfect gemstone prison with his things, but it's just as possible he found one of the others still trapped as well.  Chemoarish is unaccounted for as well, after all.  Sja-anat and Dai-gonarthis are likely out and active.

It's just as likely that Gavilar found Ashertmarn or Yelig-nar, though.  I am honestly inclined to think he found Ashertmarn, though, because its appearance is rather sudden in Kholinar.  It's entirely possible he found more than one of the Unmade.  How does that explain the Voidlight spheres?  If Shadesmar spren have devices that can deposit Investiture into a perfect gem, then it's just as possible to withdraw it from one.  Navani said that Gavilar "made" it, and we know Nergaoul was shown to be made of Voidlight when he was captured, so, it stands to reason Gavilar could have snipped off a piece of Unmade Investiture into a sphere with some help from an artifabrian.

While I may be entirely incorrect in my amateur theory, I am going to put foward my train of thought. 

The part 3 epigraphs about truthwatchers provide a detailed account of how Ba-Ado-Mishran was responsible for forms of power and was providing voidlight to the Parshendi even after the last Desolation ended. She was captured by Melishi, the last Bondsmith probably similar to how Dalinar captured Nergaoul. This is also hinted at the WoR epigraph regarding Bondsmiths. Gavilar mentions to Eshonai in the prologue how “Our enslaved parshmen were once like you. Then we somehow robbed them of their ability to undergo the transformation. We did it by capturing a spren. An ancient, crucial spren.” This ancient spren seems to be Mishran. 

According to the essay about Mishran in Hessi's Mythica she is the commander and highprincess of Odium's army. The fact that she is out of commission during the crucial battles in OB may indicate she is still captive. 

If we assume that the sphere which Gavilar gave to Szeth had a captive Unmade (thats a big assumption, i admit I cannot rebut the voidlight theory; though to me the size of a gemstone doesnot seem to be important in capturing an Unmade, only that it should be flawless) then it is entirely possible that it was Ba-Ado-Mishran. Szeth could have hidden the sphere well enough to keep her out of action.

Edited by [email protected]
Grammar
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33 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

According to the essay about Mishran in Hessi's Mythica she is the commander and highprincess of Odium's army. The fact that she is out of commission during the crucial battles in OB may indicate she is still captive.

I may have misunderstood, but I got the impression that the black smoky spren that stayed near Odium the whole time at the Battle of Thaylen City was likely Mishran? We know that not all the cognitive shadows from Braize have awakened yet and perhaps there are some specific requirements for Mishran to manifest fully?

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One small correction to the OP:

Quote

Page 231: Chemoarish, the Dustmother, has some of the most varied lore surrounding her. The wealth of it makes sorting lies from truths extremely difficult. I do not believe she is not the Nightwatcher, contrary to what some stories claim.

 

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9 hours ago, dvoraen said:

Likely not; most spheres are not perfect gems, which may be a condition required to hold one of the Unmade.  I suspect the size of the gemstone is relevant as well, which most spheres would likely fail on.  The spheres Gavilar had that he was giving out, were likely holding Voidlight he acquired from one of the Unmade.  Which one that was, is the real question.  It's quite possible he found Ba-Ado-Mishram and stored her perfect gemstone prison with his things, but it's just as possible he found one of the others still trapped as well.  Chemoarish is unaccounted for as well, after all.  Sja-anat and Dai-gonarthis are likely out and active.

It's just as likely that Gavilar found Ashertmarn or Yelig-nar, though.  I am honestly inclined to think he found Ashertmarn, though, because its appearance is rather sudden in Kholinar.  It's entirely possible he found more than one of the Unmade.  How does that explain the Voidlight spheres?  If Shadesmar spren have devices that can deposit Investiture into a perfect gem, then it's just as possible to withdraw it from one.  Navani said that Gavilar "made" it, and we know Nergaoul was shown to be made of Voidlight when he was captured, so, it stands to reason Gavilar could have snipped off a piece of Unmade Investiture into a sphere with some help from an artifabrian.

I pointed out here that the gems in question are spherical, but are not spheres as in the Rosharan money.  They are described as crystalline spheres.

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3 hours ago, rhaiynebow said:

One small correction to the OP:

 

Thanks!

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Another correction: I noticed you missed the epigraph for chapter 99: Reachers

Page 121: Nergaoul was known for driving forces into a battle rage, lending them great ferocity. Curiously, he did this to both sides of a conflict, Voidbringer and human. This seems common of the less self-aware spren.

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2 minutes ago, Willow said:

Another correction: I noticed you missed the epigraph for chapter 99: Reachers

Page 121: Nergaoul was known for driving forces into a battle rage, lending them great ferocity. Curiously, he did this to both sides of a conflict, Voidbringer and human. This seems common of the less self-aware spren.

Wow, I suck XP. Next time I'll compile this when I'm fully awake. Thanks!

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Just now, Jungah said:

Wow, I suck XP. Next time I'll compile this when I'm fully awake. Thanks!

Honestly, it's such a massive amount of information, missing a few things is logical. Thank you for putting this all together.

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Just now, Willow said:

Honestly, it's such a massive amount of information, missing a few things is logical. Thank you for putting this all together.

No problem! Anything to procrastinate homework :D

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Didn't Renarin at one point think there might be a pattern in the order of the gems?  I'm curious if that goes anywhere.

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8 hours ago, PhineasGage said:

I may have misunderstood, but I got the impression that the black smoky spren that stayed near Odium the whole time at the Battle of Thaylen City was likely Mishran? We know that not all the cognitive shadows from Braize have awakened yet and perhaps there are some specific requirements for Mishran to manifest fully?

I thought this was Yelig-nar, who then somehow uses the smokestone that Amaram swallows to possess him.

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3 minutes ago, Ryder said:

I thought this was Yelig-nar, who then somehow uses the smokestone that Amaram swallows to possess him.

Thats a perfectly reasonable idea. Did we see a similar situation with Aesudan or had she already swallowed Yelig-Nar when she gets on-stage? I'll go and look in a bit unless someone has a quick answer for me :)

Edited by PhineasGage
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Aesudan had swallowed the gemstone when they found her in the palace. It was later revealed that she was unable to control Yelig-Nar and was consumed.

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One thing I noticed in the epigraphs is that we now know generally where Feverstone Keep was located.  Apparently it's near Rall Elorim, so it was probably somewhere in Iri.

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On November 19, 2017 at 9:00 PM, Jungah said:

As for Uli Da, it was obvious from the outset that she was going to be a problem. Good riddance.

 

On November 19, 2017 at 9:00 PM, Jungah said:

We also instruct that you should not return to Obrodai. We have claimed that world, and a new avatar of our being is beginning to manifest there.

Anyone have some insight on these two passages? I've read all of the Cosmere books (besides the Aether draft), but I didn't recognize the Uli Da or Obrodai references. I wondered if Uli Da had anything to do with Ambition, since it seems to be suggesting she's gone now. 

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2 minutes ago, Andy92 said:

 

Anyone have some insight on these two passages? I've read all of the Cosmere books (besides the Aether draft), but I didn't recognize the Uli Da or Obrodai references. I wondered if Uli Da had anything to do with Ambition, since it seems to be suggesting she's gone now. 

My guesses are Uli Da was Ambition and that Obrodai is a world we've not yet seen, but that's just completely off the top of my head.

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16 minutes ago, Mulk said:

My guesses are Uli Da was Ambition and that Obrodai is a world we've not yet seen, but that's just completely off the top of my head.

That was the two conclusions I came up with. I figured if anyone knew more that this would be the place lol. 

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47 minutes ago, Andy92 said:

That was the two conclusions I came up with. I figured if anyone knew more that this would be the place lol.

It is also discussed here, and they came to the same conclusion.

@Jungah Thank you for assembling this list! I only have the book as audio, which makes it harder to go back and review the epigraphs at a glance. I'm sure I'll come back to this thread many times to reread them.

Looking back at the Oathbringer preface, it makes me wonder how Adolin and Renarin will react when they found out Dalinar killed their mother. How soon before releasing the book will Dalinar tell them?

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