[OB] Kaladin's love life ?

[Dryone_2]

Definitely Rhysladin. 

Just think of the business opportunities when you have a Windrunner as your hubby! And she could provide roots to Kaladin.  

 

[Meghan1Q84]

Hi!

Part B.  I also considered the connection to Tien. I thought about including it but decided my post was long enough.  But to address your statement, immediately after that moment, **Syl goes willlld over the rock Kaladin found!** If Kal found himself caring for Shallan in part because she reminded him of Tien (which I think is a pretty safe assumption, he literally says that she lightened his burdens – – something he said of Tien over and over again in book 1)...well how much more so does Syl? 

Part D. Yes, you are both quite correct. It's in the beginning of chapter 89, but I misheard Syl's initial description in shadesmar. An error on my behalf, nonetheless I believe that the overarching point stands. A lot of time is spent describing her as feminine, pretty, human, girlish etc. This could easily become material in bridging a gap between spren and human. It may take 30 years and the arc of the entire series to find out....

[Meghan1Q84]

Ps. @ Dryone_2 

The business opportunities 

[Hyarmenatan]

On 19.11.2017 at 7:13 PM, Jerich said:

(Assuming year at the end of Oathbringer is 1175 and Roshar year is 1.1 Earth years)

Please don't do this kind of x1.1 multiplications. When we hear Lift is 11, we need to picture her as 11. Adolin is 24 (about). Kaladin is 22. The fact Rosharan year is 1.1 longer when compared to Earth one does NOT mean characters are older. Dalinar (in mid fifty's) is NOT almost 70 and that's not how we should picture him. When Brandon says someone is 10, he is 10. Not 11. The multiplication of 1.1 should only apply when we compare in-cosmere timelines with each other and try to match years passing by on different planets.

 

I also ship Syladin. Since the very beginning I felt there should be more into their story than being a simple 'bonded friends'.

[Nashan’Elin]

22 minutes ago, Hyarmenatan said:

Please don't do this kind of x1.1 multiplications. When we hear Lift is 11, we need to picture her as 11. Adolin is 24 (about). Kaladin is 22. The fact Rosharan year is 1.1 longer when compared to Earth one does NOT mean characters are older. Dalinar (in mid fifty's) is NOT almost 70 and that's not how we should picture him. When Brandon says someone is 10, he is 10. Not 11. The multiplication of 1.1 should only apply when we compare in-cosmere timelines with each other and try to match years passing by on different planets.

I don’t necessarily disagree with you, here. But why do you say this? It doesn’t matter how many in-world years it has been, a character at, say, 50 on Roshar has lived the same ‘absolute’ time as a 55 year old here. I do agree that we should interpret the characters not to be older than they are, but still, they are technically older. Of course, maybe Roshar’s 0.7g gravity means they feel this age a bit less...

[Meghan1Q84]

To hyarmenatan:

I agree with you about the age thing. One of the really cool things about Sanderson is that he never normalizes sexual offences the way other authors do. How old was Sansa when she was married (the first time?)

However our dear author has stated that the second cycle of 5 books will take place 15 years after the first 5 books. So...I suppose technically, future shipping of Lift is possible.

But as previously stated, I agree that Syl and Kaladin at least seem inevitable whether we like it or not. I don't know if there's room for a third person between their bond, the way that there is with Pattern and Shallan. Honestly Kal even said he can't imagine being intimate without Syl being a part of it, cheering him on or otherwise (lol). There is something there that cannot be ignored. 

[straits]

12 minutes ago, Meghan1Q84 said:

To hyarmenatan:

I agree with you about the age thing. One of the really cool things about Sanderson is that he never normalizes sexual offences the way other authors do. How old was Sansa when she was married (the first time?)

However our dear author has stated that the second cycle of 5 books will take place 15 years after the first 5 books. So...I suppose technically, future shipping of Lift is possible.

But as previously stated, I agree that Syl and Kaladin at least seem inevitable whether we like it or not. I don't know if there's room for a third person between their bond, the way that there is with Pattern and Shallan. Honestly Kal even said he can't imagine being intimate without Syl being a part of it, cheering him on or otherwise (lol). There is something there that cannot be ignored. 

I think Sansa was 13 or so.

I haven't thought much about the possibility of Syl/Kaladin, but it might be the case later on. Spren do describe themselves as forces of nature shaped by human will... but they also seem to be sapient creatures who simply live in another Realm. And Syl being the Ancient Daughter could have further repercussions to her own sapience.

PS: Great username. I've yet to finish the third part of 1Q84, but it is a very interesting story.

[Valand]

21 minutes ago, Meghan1Q84 said:

Honestly Kal even said he can't imagine being intimate without Syl being a part of it, cheering him on or otherwise (lol). There is something there that cannot be ignored. 

For me it seemed like it was a problem for him not something he wants.
 

Quote

The way she spoke, she expected to be there when Kaladin … Well, he’d never considered that before, though she went with him everywhere else. Could he convince her to wait outside? She’d still listen, if not sneak in to watch. Stormfather. His life just kept getting stranger. He tried—unsuccessfully—to banish the image of lying in bed with a woman, Syl sitting on the headboard and shouting out encouragement and advice.…
“Lord Radiant?” the citylord asked from inside the front room of the small home. “Are you well?”
“Painful memory,” Kaladin said

Oathbringer Chapter 10

It would appear his expression is not too happy.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Valand
formatting

[Meghan1Q84]

Hi Valand!

Firstly, thank you for the quote! And I agree-- there's definitely discomfort there and some comedic relief. A simple solution to abate that discomfort would be if Syl were the actual partner involved. Verbal encouragement is generally called something else entirely in that paradigm shift. Clearly he's not ready to see her like that in this scene, but this is a gloriously lonnnnnng lonnnnnng series. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hello Straits!

Thank you. I love Murakami's work and regret that I cannot read it in it's original form. 1984 is my birth year and from a literary standpoint that's an interesting time. On the other hand, 1984 is the year of the RAT on the zodiac, so you can't have it all  

[Starla]

1 hour ago, Meghan1Q84 said:

Part B.  I also considered the connection to Tien. I thought about including it but decided my post was long enough.  But to address your statement, immediately after that moment, **Syl goes willlld over the rock Kaladin found!** If Kal found himself caring for Shallan in part because she reminded him of Tien (which I think is a pretty safe assumption, he literally says that she lightened his burdens – – something he said of Tien over and over again in book 1)...well how much more so does Syl? 

She also took the form of a rock in that scene in Revolar where she's hiding from the voidspren. That was really cute.  I think he was referring to Tien in this particular scene though.

I do think Kaladin and Syl have a particularly deep bond that goes beyond the other radiant/spren relationships we've seen. It seems more like a deep friendship than a business partnership. If you look at their discussions about how she found him, it seems she was looking for him specifically, not some random Windrunner. I think somewhere in OB she said he called her, and she ran away to find him. That seems quite different from the "selected by a committee" method of the other spren bonds.

That said, I don't expect it to turn romantic. You can have a romantic relationship without physical contact, but... hmm. There would always be a separation that wouldn't exist with a human partner. If he has a relationship, I'm holding out hope for a super powered battle order radiant woman to come and be in a warrior duo with him. It's a little late in his arc to introduce a new person we haven't met yet, but if you think of Wheel of Time, Mat's love interest showed up in book 9 or 10 and that worked out okay.

 

1 hour ago, Hyarmenatan said:

Please don't do this kind of x1.1 multiplications. When we hear Lift is 11, we need to picture her as 11. Adolin is 24 (about). Kaladin is 22. The fact Rosharan year is 1.1 longer when compared to Earth one does NOT mean characters are older. Dalinar (in mid fifty's) is NOT almost 70 and that's not how we should picture him. When Brandon says someone is 10, he is 10. Not 11. The multiplication of 1.1 should only apply when we compare in-cosmere timelines with each other and try to match years passing by on different planets.

Kaladin is currently 20. He was born in late 1173, and turned 20 while he was a bridgeman. It's now early 1174 so he has a few more months before he turns 21 (it's somewhat embarrassing that I pay attention to these things. I'm obsessed with timelines).

 

1 hour ago, Dryone_2 said:

Definitely Rhysladin. 

Just think of the business opportunities when you have a Windrunner as your hubby! And she could provide roots to Kaladin.  

Sadly, I don't particularly like this pairing. My first "reading" of WOK was via audiobook, and Kate Reading's voice for Rysn is awful. She sounds like a snotty brat. Unfortunately this has tainted my view of the character and now I can't shake it! I am starting to come around on her a little more after Oathbringer, but not to the point where I can see her with my man Kal. 

[Rainier]

If Kaladin isn't going to end up with Shallan (which I haven't given up on yet, onwards good ship Shalladin), I don't see any other character we're familiar with as a good partner. I'm baffled at the Jasnah/Kaladin pairing, because I would think that Jasnah would have had ample opportunity to find a suitable mate by now, and I'm having trouble seeing how she's gone this long resisting the pressure to partner and marry, only to succumb to our Brightlord Brooding-eyes.

I'm frankly a little disturbed by the Syl/Kaladin pairing. I mean, they're already paired in the nahel bond. It's not like they're going to sleep together, or raise children, and they've already got the only bond they need. Syl wants Kaladin to be happy, and she's going to keep pushing him to find someone that makes him happy, and that's great.

Tarah is the most likely to come back, what with the small flashback we get in OB, but at the same time I'm happy with her as a previous character to illustrate the time between losing Tien and killing Helaran which isn't very fleshed out. Frankly, I'd be surprised if she's even still alive. There's an apocalypse going on, you know.

Rysn I could see, but only in the way that they're opposite sex and approximately the right age. There's some duality in the Wind/Waves, as well as Strong/Weak (physically) and then consume stormlight/pet consumes stormlight. Those are the kinds of things I was looking for with regard to Shalladin, so if Sanderson isn't interested in thematic contrast, then so be it.

Frankly, I expect Kaladin to stay lonely and single through the front five books, and I expect the gap between to change everything we thought we knew.

[Meghan1Q84]

9 minutes ago, Rainier said:

Brightlord Brooding-eyes.

Ha! Love this post.

Well, I find your theory entirely plausible.  Although, I kind of dislike a time gap as a literary device to make unlikely but drama-inducing scenarios more convenient. Reference the novel "Red Shirts" for main narrative theory (and some awesome nerd reading). It's possible that Kaladin could be married to some random during those blind 15 years, but as soon as the reader's eyes go on main narrative target,  problems begin... unless she dies within those 15 years and then you really don't have to deal with it because loose ends are neatly tied.  But my dislike for a literary device has absolutely zero influence on whether or not it will be used  

The one thing I would say is that I think Syl is unstoppable and if she wants to cultivate more of a presence in the physical realm, I think she would find a way to get it, get it.

PS. FINALLY they realize that Jasnah has more leadership in her little finger than anyone apart from Dalinar! OMG!!! From day 1, I've been saying that she is the eldest child and why don't they consider that? Seriously, people run away to CITIES OCCUPIED BY THE ENEMY to escape her commands and they didn't think to consider her as a potential Queen except as an afterthought? Slay Jasnah. Slay. 

[Arch]

Not gonna lie, the Sly/Kaladin ship is kind of off-putting... Even if we ignore the fact that she's literally just a conscious piece of investiture; they've never shown even a hint of romantic interest in eachother.

Sly and Kaladin are close, but their relationship is better described as brother and sister than 2 lovers (pretty sure spren don't even have sex). 
 

Also I dont really see how the honorspren captain describing their bond as intimate proves anything when they would describe every nahel bond that way... Since you know melding your soul with someone is inherently intimate.

[Dreamstorm]

Ok, I don't ship them, but Kaladin and Jasnah would be an amazingggggg fighting team. Can you imagine him lashing her around in the air as she soulcasts the storm out of every Fused in sight?! I might get on board with that pairing just to see that 

[StrikerEZ]

On 11/19/2017 at 6:26 PM, Arch said:

Apparently its possible for parsh people and humans to have children, but I really dont think that would be a happy or plausible relationship for either of them lol. also I was under the impression that Venli bonded with an ashpren thus making her a Dustbringer.

I know this isn't the point of the topic, but I felt like responding to this. 

Timbre was probably bonding Eshonai since all the way back in WoR at the latest. There's a scene in the chapter where she becomes a Stormform Singer and she mentions a little comet-like spren zipping around her, which is almost definitely Timbre. Eshonai definitely fits the Willshapers far more than the Dustbringers, plus Timbre doesn't seem ashy at all, so it's unlikely that she's an ashspren. So, I think it's safe to assume Venli is a Willshaper.

As for Kaladin getting a love interest, I don't like the idea of it. Kal doesn't seem like the kind of person who can give away enough of himself to ever truly love someone and form a meaningful relationship with them. Plus, he doesn't need someone to date anyway, not everyone has to get a partner.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Ookla the StrooklaEZ

[Rainier]

3 hours ago, Meghan1Q84 said:

It's possible that Kaladin could be married to some random during those blind 15 years, but as soon as the reader's eyes go on main narrative target,  problems begin... unless she dies within those 15 years and then you really don't have to deal with it because loose ends are neatly tied.

Not if he's in Damnation with the rest of the NeoHeralds backstory characters.

 

45 minutes ago, Ookla the StrooklaEZ said:

Timbre was probably bonding Eshonai since all the way back in WoR at the latest. There's a scene in the chapter where she becomes a Stormform Singer and she mentions a little comet-like spren zipping around her, which is almost definitely Timbre.

That scene was so brutal on my re-read. All she had to do was let Venli go first, then put a stop to it. Alas...

[Meghan1Q84]

Damnation, Rainier that is DARK. I like you. The rest of us are quivering with our species discomfort, and you're just like hold my beer while I drag out the keg of hellfire and brimstone.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Meghan1Q84

[Rainier]

5 minutes ago, Meghan1Q84 said:

Damnation, Rainier that is DARK. I like you. The rest of us are quivering with our species discomfort, and you're just like hold my beer while I drag out the keg of hellfire and brimstone.

First, remember that Ishtar wasn't just a Herald, he conceived of and implemented the Oathpact. Second, recall that Dalinar just implemented his Bondsmith powers and surprised the Stormfather. Finally, imagine the list of characters we think might volunteer to submit to eternal torture for the sake of others.

It reads a lot like the list of POV flashback characters, doesn't it?

New Heralds by the end of book 5, you heard it here first (I hope).

[Dreamstorm]

34 minutes ago, Rainier said:

First, remember that Ishtar wasn't just a Herald, he conceived of and implemented the Oathpact. Second, recall that Dalinar just implemented his Bondsmith powers and surprised the Stormfather. Finally, imagine the list of characters we think might volunteer to submit to eternal torture for the sake of others.

It reads a lot like the list of POV flashback characters, doesn't it?

New Heralds by the end of book 5, you heard it here first (I hope).

Especially because Ishar is crazy, Nale buggered off to the other side, Jezrien got legit killed and well, maybe something will happen to Chana so that Ash takes her place and Shallan can be the Lightweaver herald. (Or maybe Shallan’ll just say whatevs to the idea.) But we have people lined up for the first three vacancies!

Edited November 30, 2017 by Dreamstorm

[Meghan1Q84]

@RuinationDayRainier

Well yes, and while I had taken it for granted that they would make new heralds with Murdery Moash getting after the old ones... well I suppose I didn't consider the next leap in logic...

Well on the bright side for all those Shalladin shippers, looks like they'll probably have plenty of um, time together. Just...years and...years of quality...time...in which to get to know each other...and em, share their deepest ...secrets...fears...pains? Literally screaming their deepest feelings to each other...geez.  I think I need to take a break and check out a few cat memes.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Meghan1Q84

[deddinty]

On a lighter note than sending our hero to be tortured for a decade or two...

I would be highly amused if Kaladin ended up with Rock's 16 year old daughter, in a few years. The irony of Shallan pretending to be a horneater princess when they first meet, then Kaladin ending up with a real horneater princess. 

I could imagine her bringing him food and things, and him totally not getting it until bridge 4 has to point it out. 

Edited November 30, 2017 by deddinty

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, deddinty said:

I could imagine her bringing him food and things, and him totally not getting it until bridge 4 has to point it out. 

That would totally be something Kaladin would do.

[Smallpox]

10 hours ago, welee said:

I say might be May Aladar which we don't realy know her personality. This might give good fresh story to be told and can be fitted to the plot. Plus she looks like Vin I am all for it.

That's my bet. Kaladin will "never" date a lighteyed girl, he says that much to Syl, after meeting Laral. His hate for lighteyes story line will end with him falling for a lighteyed girl.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Smallpox

[Hyarmenatan]

9 hours ago, Ookla the Heraldic said:

I do agree that we should interpret the characters not to be older than they are, but still, they are technically older. Of course, maybe Roshar’s 0.7g gravity means they feel this age a bit less...

Yeah, gravity and the constant supply of Investiture from highstorms. So, in my head cannon, someone of age 50 actually is 55 when compared to us here on Earth, but still phisiologycally is and looks 50 due to the lower gravity (maybe) and access to Stormlight (definitely) which generally makes Rosharans much healthier. 

This is off-top, apologies. 

To the point : as someone stated before, if not Syladin, then Jasnadin. Else, Kal needs to be alone. It fits him very well. The way he looked according toShallan's eyes in the Thaylen City, as fearless sentinel caring for all the people but himself, refusing his own needs just to save the ones he loved - and for him, it would likely be thousands of people to be taken care of. IT works for Kal. Real watcher on the rim. 

[summers]

As someone else posted. Not everyone finds love, and he does not have good options. Just realizations that looks good to fans and in theory. Shallan is interested in him through her disturbing multiple personalities, Author is clearly having some fun with the shippers. Highmarshal Azure is not from this world and made clear that her goals are different. Tarah, while interesting to see authors book the trend of having super special people marry other super special people and go with a seemingly normal girl, that relationship had a clear end and common end; she got another job and he did not want to leave. Jasnah...like I said, in theory the whole push-pull they hate each other so they must love each other is great; for drama, not so much for healthy relationship.

Syl, I am not disturbed by that like others are, I just think its bad for them and sad. Only girl he can get his, is not actually a "girl" and is bonded to him so if the break up she dies. Nope.

Kaladins brooding storm face self attract certain type of women, but can't hold them. Maybe a women will help him grow but they would have to first deal with his many issues and his depressive states, the relationship would consist of him taking extreme measures to protect her and him breaking down all the time and her dealing with it. It would be a nightmare. I think he knows this. Its commented on when he says he has his bridgemen and does not need anyone else. 

I think Stormblessed love life will be played for sad comedy like it was in this book.