Guest Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Karger said: Also Adolin makes her happy something that she has had a hard time being while on her own. No. He makes her ignore fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, SLNC said: No. He makes her ignore fear. What? When has he done that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 8, 2019 Report Share Posted March 8, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Karger said: What? When has he done that? Quote “She’s the one I’m talking to right now. You don’t have to hide, Shallan. You don’t have to push it down. Maybe the vase is cracked, but that only means it can show what’s inside. And I like what’s inside.” So warm. Comfortable. And strikingly unfamiliar. What was this peace? This place without fear? Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: The Stormlight Archive Book Three - Chapter 108: Honor's Path Yeah, he makes her comfortable, but that doesn't equate to happiness. For someone already having problems with tendencies to avoid, this is worrying, but this isn't the topic here anyway. Edited March 8, 2019 by SLNC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vissy Posted March 9, 2019 Report Share Posted March 9, 2019 (edited) Right now her behaviour with Adolin seems more like another coping mechanism to me. Still remains to be seen if it'll work out between them - Adolin hardly knows anything about Shallan's actual moral convictions and personality at this point. If anything, I hope Adolin will be portrayed as more Alethi in the future, as more gritty, pragmatic and impulsive, because that's arguably the kind of person he really is deep down beneath the layers of princely charm and friendly demeanor. Edited March 9, 2019 by Vissy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jofwu Posted March 11, 2019 Report Share Posted March 11, 2019 On 3/8/2019 at 3:25 PM, Karger said: Also as much as I hate to say this in his current state I doubt that Kaladin would make a particularly good partner. I very adamantly agree with this. Kaladin is far too obsessed with protecting his men and to addicted to wallowing in his guilt to give a partner the love and attention they deserve. Whatever the case may be for Shallan (that's a discussion for another topic), I don't think Sanderson will put Kaladin into a relationship until he's ready for it because this whole idea that Kaladin needs to let go seems to be central of Kaladin's character development. That Oathbringer Tarah flashback charged into the issue head on: Quote “Maybe I could get a transfer?” he said. “To the highprince’s standing house guard?” “Would you do that?” “I . . .” No. He wouldn’t. Not while he carried that stone in his pocket, not while the memory of his brother dying was fresh in his mind. Not while lighteyed highlords got boys killed in petty fights. “Oh, Kal,” she whispered, then squeezed his arm. “Maybe someday you’ll learn how to be there for the living, not just for the dead.” Or, well, I guess Sanderson could use the beginnings of a relationship to help encourage Kaladin's growth. In any case... I don't think Kaladin is ready for a relationship at all. I lean towards the suspicion that he will end up in one, even if not until the very end of book 5. But he has a journey to make before that happens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 On 3/8/2019 at 5:08 PM, SLNC said: Yeah, he makes her comfortable, but that doesn't equate to happiness. For someone already having problems with tendencies to avoid, this is worrying, but this isn't the topic here anyway. This actually brings up an interesting point. Shallan does not actually seem to feel physical fear of anything not related to her exposure. She keeps quipping and being interested when confronted by a chasmfiend. That can not be health. Adolin's making her unafraid is can only be used in regard to the fact that she feels she can be genuine with him something I see as good for both their relationship and Shallan herself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Karger said: Adolin's making her unafraid is can only be used in regard to the fact that she feels she can be genuine with him something I see as good for both their relationship and Shallan herself. That is one interpretation of it, that I'm not going to dispute. Regarding the "healthiness" of not feeling fear, that is disputable. Especially, and I can't believe, that I'm repeating this for the nth time, because it gets ignored and ignored and ignored again, especially because how Shallan avoids facing fear. In a way, Adolin is biggest tool of avoidance and I'm staunchly of the belief, that this is not healthy. There is nothing wrong with feeling fear. It becomes a problem, when you don't learn to endure fear. Avoiding is not enduring, it is the opposite, which is what Shallan did, does and will continue to do. Edited March 12, 2019 by SLNC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) Shallan does feel fear. One of her first truths is "I'm terrified." Edited March 13, 2019 by Karger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2019 Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) Yes, and that is another argument, that Adolin isn't good for her. Turn it however you want, but Shallan's own observations about the relationship aren't healthy. At least not for a person of her avoiding mind. Also, in retrospect, I am going to dispute the "genuineness". Shallan still isn't genuine with him and is not willing or capable of telling Adolin of the Ghostbloods and rather would let "Veil do that". Edited March 13, 2019 by SLNC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookish Ocelot Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 The number of separate personalities that Shallan maintains isn't healthy and would hurt her a lot in any long-term relationship. It would be like trying to date three different people at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 But Adoln refuses to date either Veil or Radiant and is never intimate with either of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 (edited) And they're all Shallan in any case, no matter how much she personifies them or pretends they're separated. Shallan does not have DID. They're just masks. When she has conversations with them, she is talking to herself. Edited March 18, 2019 by Calderis 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Karger said: But Adoln refuses to date either Veil or Radiant and is never intimate with either of them. But he is speaking to them and treating them as if they are autonomous entities. I am not saying that to argue whether or not what is going on with Adolin and Shallan is good, bad or in-between. Just adding a bit of info. He goes out drinking with Veil, and I think (going on recollection so am probably wrong) does further sword practice with Radiant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookish Ocelot Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 @Pathfinder I think that Adolin treating the personalities as seperate is exasperating the problem. I feel like Kaladin would be a better fit for Shallan as he understands how she leads separate lives and is dealing with grief. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angsos Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 Before Kaladin has a relationship, he has reckon with letting Elokhar die as a result of not confronting the fact that he can't save everyone. This will most likely be part of the fourth book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookish Ocelot Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 47 minutes ago, Angsos said: Before Kaladin has a relationship, he has reckon with letting Elokhar die as a result of not confronting the fact that he can't save everyone. This will most likely be part of the fourth book I think it would be really cool if he had a relationship (not necessarily romantic)* that helped him get over his fear of failure to save and this relationship also allowed him to advance in oaths. Though first he would obviously have to overcome his grief for Elhokar, Tien, and his bridgemen that were lost in The Battle of the Tower. *though I really want it to be 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angsos Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 @BookishOcelotthe non-romantic one that helps may be Rlain since he basically everyone but himself. Maybe we'll see Kaladin advance and Rlain bound the sibling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookish Ocelot Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 @Angsos You're probably right. I was thinking along the lines of Adolin. Their relationship greatly progresses throughout Oathbringer and I feel like they would become close friends, especially after Kaladin saved Adolin from certain death in the arena. My opinion is that Kaladin needs a friend, someone that he could open up to with his many (and boy do I mean many) issues. This person could be Shallan, as she is a fellow Radiant and is also used to dealing with grief and depression. This could also open the floor for romance. Quote Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Is Kaladin going to get a romance? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] RAFO! Kaladin isn't the best with romance. I will take the implicit question, "Will he have a successful romance?" and that's your RAFO. Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018) I know the above is quoted in like every other post on this board. Sorry. One theory is that they will try and fail to have a romance- Veil will go have an affair, Kaladin will be a helicopter (perhaps literally), etc. (This is discounting Shallan's marriage which was primarily political. It's pretty clear that Adolin is infatuated with Shallan. She is as well, but it's primarily on a physical level. When she speaks about Kaladin, it is commenting on his bravery/loyalty/willingness to sacrifice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angsos Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 I don't think pattern would let Shallan have an affair, NO MATING and all. Kal can't talk to Shallan anyway because she's waaaaay more screwed up than he is, at least all his issues are confined to one personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookish Ocelot Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 Just now, Angsos said: I don't think pattern would let Shallan have an affair, NO MATING and all. Kal can't talk to Shallan anyway because she's waaaaay more screwed up than he is, at least all his issues are confined to one personality. The no mating issue was after he was assigned as their chaperone... Adolin would probably be chill with Shallan doing whatever- their marriage was originally intended to be political. So long as he or Renarin produced a male heir, there wouldn't be any problems. The Vorin church would catch on fire if they found out though. So maybe Shaladin isn't the most viable choice. (but that won't stop me from shipping it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angsos Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 Well the Queen and High King are heretics already so they have bigger things to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookish Ocelot Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Angsos said: Well the Queen and High King are heretics already so they have bigger things to worry about. Like their impending doom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deacon Posted March 18, 2019 Report Share Posted March 18, 2019 31 minutes ago, BookishOcelot said: It's pretty clear that Adolin is infatuated with Shallan. She is as well, but it's primarily on a physical level. When she speaks about Kaladin, it is commenting on his bravery/loyalty/willingness to sacrifice. This is pretty much the opposite of what we see in Oathbringer, though. Her thoughts about Adolin are admiring and enjoying the kind things he does for her as well as being attracted to him, but her thoughts about Kaladin are short, fleeting, and exclusively about how handsome and sexy she thinks he is. 15 minutes ago, BookishOcelot said: Adolin would probably be chill with Shallan doing whatever- their marriage was originally intended to be political. So long as he or Renarin produced a male heir, there wouldn't be any problems. Um, I think saying that Adolin wouldn't care if Shallan cheats on him ignores a lot about what we see in their relationship in Oathbringer and before... He was ready to officially give her up when he thought Shallan was more interested in Kaladin than him; what he did not say or imply was that it'd be chill if Shallan went to be with him while being married to Adolin at the same time. I don't see where you are getting this reading of him? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 1 hour ago, deacon said: Adolin would probably be chill with Shallan doing whatever- their marriage was originally intended to be political. So long as he or Renarin produced a male heir, there wouldn't be any problems. Adolin is a chill compassionate man but in I seriously doubt that he would be cool with his wife going behind is back. Also I seriously doubt either Syl or Pattern would approve. Syl is the spirit of oaths that includes marriage and pattern would not be OK with Shallan perpetuating a lie especially to someone he definitely likes. Also what happens when Jasnah or Dalinar find out? YIKES! Also Kaladin is going to sneak behind his friends back? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookish Ocelot Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 In retrospect, y'all are probably right. I am probably suffering from wanting a ship to sail wee bit too much. Welp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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