shawnhargreaves Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 We're reading a lot into not many words here, but I didn't think Dalinar had recognized Taln at this point. And the sequence of Dalinar counting off Radiant orders, thinking that three were missing, and the Stormfather immediately responding "over there" really sounded to me like Stormfather knew what was up with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treamayne Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 On 11/24/2017 at 3:01 PM, shawnhargreaves said: At this point Dalinar has no idea who these people are - he's seen nothing to indicate they might be Heralds Actually, Stormfather all but tells him they are heralds: Quote He would have expected three more. There, the Stormfather said. Behind your niece. Two more people appeared in the shadow of the wall. A large, powerful man with an impressive physique, and a woman with long, dark hair. Their dark skin marked them as Makabaki, perhaps Azish, but their eyes were wrong. I know them, the Stormfather said, sounding surprised. I know them from long, long ago. Memories of days when I did not fully live. Dalinar, you are in the presence of divinities. “I’ve grown accustomed to it,” Dalinar said... Oathbringer Ch 119 Dalinar's assumption, in my mind, is that the two people pointed out by Stormfather would be different orders than the seven knights he already counted. As far as Shalash being (or becoming) a Dustbringer, I'm not yet convinced. It requires the same assumption that Dalinar makes - that all ten orders were represented at the Battle of Thaylenah. Also, the argument of flashback characters, in my opinion, is moot. We learn about Radiant orders and their surges in the "present," not in the flashbacks. There is no reason that Ash's flashback book would mean she is also the Dustbringer in the book (assuming that will be the "Dustbringer" book). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuffel Posted November 26, 2017 Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 On 11/24/2017 at 3:04 PM, Rider of Storms said: He does know who Taln is, he's met him before. Plus the Stormfather doesn't even say they are new orders, and probably wouldn't know Ash is a proto Dustbringer. He only recognises them from long ago, when Ash would have been known as a Lightweaver. Has Dalinar ascended at this point? Dalinar connected the realms spiritual, congnitive, and physical together. I am sure he can see something as simple as the sentient spren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyrindor Posted November 26, 2017 Report Share Posted November 26, 2017 A good point, perhaps plausible. Though to avoid any confusion on this stuff they should have added a line or two to make it clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormingTexan Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 I think it is possible Ash will become a Dustbringer but this scene really bothered me. I just do not see how Dalinar could have known that. I get Taln but how would he have known who Ash is besides the SF telling him she is a divinity and then making the assumption she is a Dustbringer? Unless he is just using the process of elimination which would make Ash either a Dustbringer or Willshaper which is plausible. The other possibility is Dalinar's ascension and/or third ideal granted him the ability to sense this. In all explanations the scene is really left to a ton of speculation. Would have been nice if he named the rest of the orders but I guess Brandon wanted this to be deliberately vague. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyrann Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 5 minutes ago, StormingTexan said: I think it is possible Ash will become a Dustbringer but this scene really bothered me. I just do not see how Dalinar could have known that. I get Taln but how would he have known who Ash is besides the SF telling him she is a divinity and then making the assumption she is a Dustbringer? Unless he is just using the process of elimination which would make Ash either a Dustbringer or Willshaper which is plausible. The other possibility is Dalinar's ascension and/or third ideal granted him the ability to sense this. In all explanations the scene is really left to a ton of speculation. Would have been nice if he named the rest of the orders but I guess Brandon wanted this to be deliberately vague. I think Dalinar thought that, for some reason (maybe, as @Shuffel proposes, because he Ascended), all ten Orders were supposed to be there and he just figured "they'll be two of the remaining three then". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormingTexan Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 Just now, Leyrann said: I think Dalinar thought that, for some reason (maybe, as @Shuffel proposes, because he Ascended), all ten Orders were supposed to be there and he just figured "they'll be two of the remaining three then". This also makes the most sense to me as well and why I think through the process of elimination he assumes Ash is either a Willshaper or Dustbringer and this scene should not be used as any kind of proof Ash is (or will be) a Dustbringer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyrann Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 Just now, StormingTexan said: This also makes the most sense to me as well and why I think through the process of elimination he assumes Ash is either a Willshaper or Dustbringer and this scene should not be used as any kind of proof Ash is (or will be) a Dustbringer. I disagree with the bolded part. I think it's foreshadowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulminato Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 (edited) it's pure guessing but, ten order, ten book, ten character flashback kaladin, shallan, dalinar - [szeth - eshonai] | [ renarin - jasnah - lift - ash - taln] i know, the can be wrong and/or deception (after WotK navani was in the place of eshonai), but i alwasy find strange to see ash in the list, we had alredy a main lightweaver, taln is the herald abandoned, returning to roshar broken by 4 and half thousands years of torture. but why ash of any other herald? we se nale often 'on the screen' and he recover his (honor)blade, ishar is the founder of the oathpact and the man how convince the other to abandon their blades. jezrien is the king of the herald (ok we know now why he cannot be around anymore). Ash is only a vandal, (for guilty, they abandon taln, she feel don't deserve adoration) Edited November 27, 2017 by Fulminato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyWordsmith Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 So, Brandon has been suspiciously cagey on the subject of Dustbringers. I have to WoB on that. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/34-arcanum-unbounded-seattle-signing/#e5902 https://wob.coppermind.net/events/80-shadows-of-self-london-uk-signing/#e5318 Sorry for the wall of text, not sure how to best shorten. However, I feel like Ash being the Dustbringer feels right in the context of the following quotes. It's certainly more difficult to guess if the herald of a different order ends up the dustbringer. Plus, her madness relates to breaking things. Yay for thematic consistency. Questioner Who is the willshaper? Brandon Sanderson Ok, of the group of the ten... Questioner Have we met the Willshaper? Brandon Sanderson You have met the Willshaper. Questioner Is it Moash? Brandon Sanderson That's a RAFO. Questioner Ok. But it was a good guess? Brandon Sanderson Do you want me to write RAFO in this? You got RAFO'd. Questioner Thanks. Brandon Sanderson People are really interested in the Willshapers. Has this been a topic of conversation? Other person *inaudible*...17th Shard. *inaudible* Brandon Sanderson Yeah, right. The Dustbringer is harder to figure out, I feel like the Willshaper will be a little more obvious once it happens. The Dustbringer is going to be hard. Questioner Have we... I think you mentioned in a previous signing that we’d already met one member of every Order of the Knights Radiant. Brandon Sanderson Yes, I think you have. Questioner My question is, have we met two Edgedancers? And is one of the Dustbringers a viewpoint character? Brandon Sanderson One of the Dustbringers is eventually a point-of-view character. Questioner Haven’t been yet? Brandon Sanderson No, not yet, I don’t think. But it depends if you count the Heralds as members of their order. Questioner I don’t. Brandon Sanderson Oh, see I would, because they’re kind of heads of their Order. If you don’t count them you have not met some from every Order. Questioner Have we met someone from the Dustbringers? Brandon Sanderson Well… Dustbringers are really complicated. Really complicated. So that’s the weird one. Okay? So let’s shelve that one. You’ll see why it’s really weird later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormingTexan Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 So does the above WoBs mean Malata is not really a Dustbringer or did Brandon just forget or hadn't created her at the time of this WoB? She was pretty obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulk Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 5 minutes ago, StormingTexan said: So does the above WoBs mean Malata is not really a Dustbringer or did Brandon just forget or hadn't created her at the time of this WoB? She was pretty obvious. Malata only appears in Oathbringer and this WoB predates that release (2015 I think?), so I'd lean towards he knew of Malata but knew we hadn't seen her yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nashan’Elin Posted November 27, 2017 Report Share Posted November 27, 2017 I do think that Ash will become a Dustbringer, but is not one yet. She’s sufficiently broken, obviously, and although she is (was) associated with the Order of the Lightweavers, being their Patron, that doesn’t mean she’s always tied to them. Going off of this WoB, it’s very possible Ash could have used Chana’s Honorblade before, and familiarized herself with those Surges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjl Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 Well I had to try.... I asked Brandon this quesiton at the London signing today Q: "Will Shallash/Ash become a Dustbringer" A: That's a RAFO - here's your card 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted November 29, 2017 Report Share Posted November 29, 2017 So if I recall correctly (I don't have my copy handy), we saw Ashspren in Shadesmar and they seemed uniformly hostile to humans. I think if we do see a friendly dustbringer it will require unique circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifth of Daybreak Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 Ash appears to already be bonded to a Spren. Quote Pom froze in the doorway. “Stop dallying,” Mem reminded her, covering a smile. After stark, empty hallways and stairwells, this overstuffed den was a little overwhelming. She’d marveled too, her first time here. A mantel covered in curiosities, each in its own glass display. Deep rugs from Marat. Five paintings of the finest skill, each of a different Herald. “You were right,” Pom said from behind. “Of course I was right,” Mem said, setting down her basket in front of the corner wardrobe. “Mraize—remember, he doesn’t want to be called ‘master’—is of the finest and most refined taste. He employs only the best of—” Mem Interlude Bolding mine. Best explanation is she's talking to her spren and not to Mem. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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