[OB] Azure's Identity (+Warbreaker spoilers)

[Beggar]

So, I'm not very good at picking out worldhoppers, but is Azur Vivenna from Warbreaker. I would quote stuff from the book, but I don't have my own copy yet and just barely finished reading it via Overdrive and already returned it.

[IntentAwesome]

Good find! Yes, Azure is definitely Vivenna!

[Lightflame]

She's Vivenna. The woman that calls herself Vivenna, I mean.

[Strabe]

The real question is:

Spoiler

Why is she hunting Zahel and calling him a criminal? At the end of Warbreaker they are at least companions.

 

Edited November 18, 2017 by Strabe
Label spoiler.

[Storyspren]

41 minutes ago, Strabe said:

The real question is:

  Hide contents

Why is she hunting Zahel and calling him a criminal? At the end of Warbreaker they are at least companions.

 

Hope the skybreakers don’t know whatever she does presumably does.

Maybe his crime was letting Nightblood out of the family? 

My guess is though that whatever it is happens between warbreaker and WoK as opposed to referencing eg historical events.

[emailanimal]

17 hours ago, Strabe said:

The real question is:

  Reveal hidden contents

Why is she hunting Zahel and calling him a criminal? At the end of Warbreaker they are at least companions.

 

I think she was referring to Nightblood.

[WalksIntoMordor]

33 minutes ago, emailanimal said:

I think she was referring to Nightblood.

I think she mentions she's also after the one who brought Nightblood, which is presumably Vasher/Zahel.

As for why, when they are on good terms in the end...

My guess is that it's something we haven't seen yet.  Possibly from a sequel to Warbreaker.  We haven't seen all of Khriss' backstory either, but she is everywhere already; it's possible this is a significant flash-forward.

[emailanimal]

5 minutes ago, WalksIntoMordor said:

We haven't seen all of Khriss' backstory either, but she is everywhere already;

Was she in Oathbringer?

 

The way Vivenna asks Adolin and Kal to pass her regards to Vasher suggests that she is not after him. She uses the word "warn", but in the context that did not strike me as adversarial.

[Oversleep]

the real questions is what the storm is her sword?!

Another Type IV BioChromatic Entity?

[NightFrost]

3 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

the real questions is what the storm is her sword?!

Another Type IV BioChromatic Entity?

I think you are right as her sword acts like one also in the coppermind wiki it describes Nightblood as a robot spen which is in line with what the honorspen experienced when she drew the blade. It is worth noting that Azure warned the honorspen not to draw the blade all the way which shows some similaritys to Nightblood.

[soyperson]

I definitely think that her sword, whatever the story behind it, is another Type IV, perhaps one more... polished than Nightblood. If we're under the assumption that she Awakened it herself, then her powers have grown tremendously (which I guess goes without saying anyways). Regardless, it was nice seeing her again.

[kmosiman]

I believe there are a few WoBs or notes in the annotations that the sequel will involve Yesteel who may be working on other Awakened blades. It should be interesting to learn what advances have been made with them.

Of course, we never saw her blade fully drawn so it could have similar effects. Hopefully the word DESTROY is not part of its command. 

[Droughtbringer]

2 hours ago, kmosiman said:

Of course, we never saw her blade fully drawn so it could have similar effects. Hopefully the word DESTROY is not part of its command. 

We did!  During the palace fight scene she drew it.

[Oversleep]

8 hours ago, DroughtBringer said:

We did!  During the palace fight scene she drew it.

Adolin noted that instead of burning out the eyes it made skin grey. Which is similar to Nightblood.

[kmosiman]

Sorry I forgot about that, quick reading and late nights. I need to start my reread.

I noticed that she wrapped her cloak around her arm. That could be for awakened strength, but she could be hiding the tendrils if her sword acts similarly to Nightblood. It doesn't vaporize though, so it must be less of the black hole that he is.

[StormingTexan]

Ah! I assumed the cloak was for awakening but yeah that’s a very good possibility.

[Oversleep]

15 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

Ah! I assumed the cloak was for awakening but yeah that’s a very good possibility.

I also assume it was for Awakening, since it was wrapped around her left arm.

And, honestly, if her Blade was feeding like Nightblood, she would not be using it so much and so freely. No way.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Oversleep

[FollowYourMuse]

Definitely for awakening,  since Kaladin mentions how it is hanging down oddly. 

She also asks the Honorspren to cut the bales of cloth into specific shapes as kaladin and crew are leaving. 

 

I can not remember did Vivenna have scars from Warbreaker? or is that something that happens after? 

Quote

Kaladin was speaking softly with a woman in armor, helm under her arm, face crossed by a pair of scars. Highmarshal Azure was younger than Shallan had expected. chapter 82

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by FollowYourMuse

[IndigoAjah]

The Scars may not be real...

[Stromblessed]

7 hours ago, FollowYourMuse said:

Definitely for awakening,  since Kaladin mentions how it is hanging down oddly. 

She also asks the Honorspren to cut the bales of cloth into specific shapes as kaladin and crew are leaving. 

 

I can not remember did Vivenna have scars from Warbreaker? or is that something that happens after? 

 

Judging by how long Vasher seems to have been on Roshar , quite a bit of time has passed between Warbreaker and OB. Long enough for Warbreaker 2 even

[Calderis]

7 hours ago, FollowYourMuse said:

I can not remember did Vivenna have scars from Warbreaker? or is that something that happens after? 

47 minutes ago, IndigoAjah said:

The Scars may not be real...

Yeah. Adolin thinks in Shadesmar that the scars seem less prominent. I believe she's learned to control her divine breath fragment better and can alter more than just her hair. 

[+robardin]

13 hours ago, Oversleep said:

Adolin noted that instead of burning out the eyes it made skin grey. Which is similar to Nightblood.

Nightblood turns his wielder's skin grey, though that recovers with time (and possibly Investiture). Azure's blade was silver instead of black, and turned the victim's skin grey.

As I explained in some other post somewhere, I read it as Vivenna having a "more focused" version of Nightblood - a "Type IV BioChromatic Entity" which a much clearer Command, and therefore, less Investiture.

I theorize that Nightblood is the way he is largely because Shashara's Command of "destroy evil" was either inherently too vague ("what is evil?"), or that Shashara's mental image of what "evil" meant wavered at the critical moment. We'd already seen earlier in Warbreaker that the more complex the Command, the more Breath was necessary to make it work; so on top of the massive amount of Breath needed for the Ninth Heightening to Awaken steel in the first place, a colossal amount got put into the sword... So much Investiture that it turned black, and is sentient. And even that was not enough, which is why Nightblood requires exponential feeding of Investiture to operate when drawn.

Vivenna/Azure's blade, on the other hand, must have a much simpler, clearer Command that keeps it a silvery color, fully "seals" it from requiring more Investiture, and (perhaps) keeps it non-sentient?

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by robardin

[ROSHtaFARian2.0]

Honestly, I'm most intrigued by the implications that Vivenna is able to Awaken things on Roshar, given that Vasher according to WoB still has not figured out how to do the same. Is it a case of the student surpassing the master, with Vivenna having figured out a workaround that hasn't occurred to Vasher, or is it that Vivenna is working with others who have the necessary knowledge/skills to help her figure out a workaround ahead of Vasher. 

[DSC01]

3 minutes ago, ROSHtaFARian2.0 said:

Honestly, I'm most intrigued by the implications that Vivenna is able to Awaken things on Roshar, given that Vasher according to WoB still has not figured out how to do the same. Is it a case of the student surpassing the master, with Vivenna having figured out a workaround that hasn't occurred to Vasher, or is it that Vivenna is working with others who have the necessary knowledge/skills to help her figure out a workaround ahead of Vasher. 

As I understand it, it's not that Vasher doesn't know how to Awaken on Roshar--it's that he doesn't know how to use Stormlight to do it. I don't see any evidence to suggest that Vivenna can do that either, but she still has Breath from Nalthis that she can use for Awakening.

In Vasher's case, I don't think we know whether he can Awaken or not--only that he has failed to discover how to fuel Awakening with Stormlight. Naturally, if he currently only has his Divine Breath, then he cannot. I don't know whether or not his ability to sense Kaladin coming in his WoR interlude could be explained without extra Breath, but I think so. Even a suppressed Divine Breath should still give you that much.

[FollowYourMuse]

The comments by the Honorspren lead me to think that her blade is fundamentally different from nightblood,

a couple possibilities:

1. It works more like a spren bond in granting her investiture instead of draining it.
2. It works more like other Awakened objects where she shares breath and then takes it back.