Beggar

[OB] Azure's Identity (+Warbreaker spoilers)

68 posts in this topic

I forget all of their exchanges so correct me if I say something stupid (which is likely given my level of Cosmere knowledge compared to others here).

21 minutes ago, Bort said:

I got the impression that she is less interested in finding Vasher, and more so on finding Nightblood.

I had this feeling as well. It seemed to me like she was after both Vasher and Nightblood but I would assume that retrieving Nightblood is a far more important task than finding Vasher given the destruction he can cause. It was clear to her that Adolin and company knew Vasher but they never mentioned or made any indications of being familiar with a sword as unique as Nightblood.

As to why Vivenna is after them (obviously we need to wait to find the real answer) I had my own basic theory. After the events of Warbreaker, I assume that Yesteel eventually makes his way out as the big baddie. If I remember correctly it is mentioned somewhere that he has come up with an even better version of ichor alcohol to use with lifeless. This in combination with any other expert awakening knowledge he has gives him the potential to bring on a massive war as was attempted in Warbreaker (possibly by Yesteel behind the scenes?). If the war turns out to be massive and the situation dire enough, I can see Vivenna and others seeing Nightblood as a necessary tool to aid in their victory. Not only that, but luckily for them they have Vasher (with the knowledge of Nightblood's creation) and Suseberon (with the breath available to perform the task) to create another equally powerful weapon. Vasher already killed his wife to protect that secret and clearly wouldn't want another sword like Nightblood being created. So he slips away to Roshar, a place that he's presumably already been previously and that he probably assumes others would not know how to reach.

I'm of the idea that separating from Nightblood was purposeful. Vasher knows that even if it's unlikely somebody follows him to Roshar that it is still possible. What would be the quickest giveaway to his location? Nightblood. He would be relatively easy to find if he carried around the most unique sword in the Cosmere at all times. So he gives up Nightblood and takes up his life as we see it in Stormlight Archive. If somebody came looking and found Nightblood, they'd have an extremely powerful weapon. But if he was found and made to give up the information he knows, that person would potentially be able to create more equally powerful weapons.

Meanwhile, without Vasher, his knowledge of awakening, and Nightblood, the war continues on in favor of Yesteel. Suseberon manages to awaken a sword but it doesn't quite compare to Nightblood. Vivenna goes searching for Vasher and Nightblood: as a possible last ditch effort to turn the war around, to bring them back as a sort of ransom for Siri and the kingdom, or maybe for revenge for leaving them to lose a war.

 

In any case, I can't wait for more concrete evidence into what happened on Nalthis and with our favorite awakeners.

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Hi just new to this site and haven't read warbreaker but picking up on threads has anyone considered that as sword-nimi is quite obviously night blood, yes? And sword-nimi is now carried by szeth and was given to him by nale herald of the storm breakers after he brought szeth back from death, that maybe azure(vivenna) is hunting nale for stealing the sword night blood as she obviously isn't chasing vasher and this is the reason they part ways in shades Mar,. As I say I'm just picking through the threads as I haven't read about vivenna or warbreaker

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Nale is the Herald of justice he scrupulously follows all laws regardless of how silly.  Theft is not his MO and how and why did he steel Nightblood?

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Hi, also new here. It seems to me like Cough does raise a good point. Even if Nale is not the criminal that Azure is after, someone had to get the blade to him. So how did that happen? Did Vasher give it to him before splitting up to avoid Azure, or was Nightblood stolen by someone and then somehow made his way to Nale? There are a lot of unknowns here that make it impossible for us to say who exactly the criminal is that Azure is hunting. Although the WoB that said that she was looking for Vasher does heavily indicate that it is Vasher, it does not necessarily pin him down as the criminal. I am loving the mystery of all of this. It is what makes me love Sanderson's work so much. 

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We can assume that the thief is not Nale because in the last Dalinar flashback the Nightwatcher is shown to possess "a sword that bleeds black and can never be defeated'' I assumed this is definitely talking about Nightblood.

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3 minutes ago, twenty second of the sun said:

We can assume that the thief is not Nale because in the last Dalinar flashback the Nightwatcher is shown to possess "a sword that bleeds black and can never be defeated'' I assumed this is definitely talking about Nightblood.

That might just mean that Cultivation could get it, not that she has it lying around. Like, I don't think the NIghtwatcher has a pile of cloth sitting in a cave somewhere in case someone else asks for some.

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And in any case that still doesn't solve the real mystery here which is, how did Vasher lose Nightblood in the first place? 

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Im going to assume that if you where going to ask the Nightwatcher right now at this moment she would not be able to just give you nightblood.

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3 hours ago, Trick said:

Hi, also new here. It seems to me like Cough does raise a good point. Even if Nale is not the criminal that Azure is after, someone had to get the blade to him. So how did that happen? Did Vasher give it to him before splitting up to avoid Azure, or was Nightblood stolen by someone and then somehow made his way to Nale? There are a lot of unknowns here that make it impossible for us to say who exactly the criminal is that Azure is hunting. Although the WoB that said that she was looking for Vasher does heavily indicate that it is Vasher, it does not necessarily pin him down as the criminal. I am loving the mystery of all of this. It is what makes me love Sanderson's work so much. 

A hot-off-the-press WoB indicates that there were a number of possessors between Vasher and Nale.  

Quote
[suggestion]

Questioner

How many hands has Nightblood passed through since he left Vasher?

Brandon Sanderson

Since he left Vasher? More than you'd expect. *later adds* It's... It's been a while.

DragonCon 2019 (Aug. 29, 2019)
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also i wanted to ask that there seems to be some speculation regarding Azure being a returned Vivenna... but is it not true that returned can not do awakening? secondly, if Vivenna or siri were to return, then do you think their hair would still change color. wont they lose their original color-changing divine breathe and instead get your normal returned divine breathe? 

and may be Vasher just has some commitment issues and he ran away...

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34 minutes ago, The traveller said:

also i wanted to ask that there seems to be some speculation regarding Azure being a returned Vivenna... but is it not true that returned can not do awakening? secondly, if Vivenna or siri were to return, then do you think their hair would still change color. wont they lose their original color-changing divine breathe and instead get your normal returned divine breathe? 

and may be Vasher just has some commitment issues and he ran away...

Returned can awaken. Warbreaker Spoilers:

Spoiler

We see Susebron do it at the end of Warbreaker, and Vasher does it all the time while being returned.

 

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Spoilers for Warbreaker

Spoiler

Also all returned can change their looks with enough practice. This is evidenced when Vasher changes his appearance when he suppresses and un-suppresses his divine breath. The reason that Vivenna can change her hair color at will is because she is a decedent of a returned in the first place. 

 

Edited by Argent
Hiding spoilers
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4 hours ago, HSuperLee said:

Returned can awaken. Warbreaker Spoilers:

  Hide contents

We see Susebron do it at the end of Warbreaker, and Vasher does it all the time while being returned.

I thought that susebron and vasher and all the other five scholars can awaken because 

a. They were returned as an infant 

 

 

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This is the stormlight board, so Warbreaker stuff should be in spoilers. 

That said. 

Spoiler

Vivenna remembers who she is, so she isn't returned and there's no need for her to be. 

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Vasher Explains Some Things, but Leaves Some Things Hidden

I'm worried about leaving Vivenna's two questions unanswered. One is pretty obvious—how Vasher can hide how he looks—but the other is unintuitive. I wish I could explain better in the book, as I said above, but I decided in the end to just leave it hanging. It's a bit of a violation of Sanderson's First Law, but not a big one. The reason I feel I can get away with it is because Vasher didn't use his nature as a Returned to solve any problems. It is more a flavoring for his character than it is important to him getting out of danger or fixing things. He could have done everything he needed to in this book without being Returned. So I feel it's okay not to explain why he can be Returned and not die when he gives away his Breaths.

Can Vivenna change her appearance more? She can indeed. She could actually stoke that fragment of a divine Breath inside of her and start glowing like a Returned. She can't change her physical features to look like someone else, but she can change her age, her height (within reason), and her body shape (to an extent). It takes practice.

And yes, the scraggly miscreant is how Vasher sees himself. Not noble and Returned, which is part of how he suppresses his divine Breath.

Events in the second book may change that.

Warbreaker Annotations (Aug. 1, 2011)

All she needs to survive is enough breath to prolong her lifespan. 

 

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Let's keep marking Warbreaker spoilers as such in this forum.

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3 minutes ago, Argent said:

Let's keep marking Warbreaker spoilers as such in this forum.

Difficult to not discuss warbreaker, while discussing azure :)

 

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9 minutes ago, The traveller said:

Difficult to not discuss warbreaker, while discussing azure :)

 

True, but it's still in the wrong forum for Warbreaker talk. I agree that it's cumbersome to navigate spoiler tags everywhere, so I'll just edit the topic title with the appropriate spoiler warning, and if @Beggar prefers it to stay Stormlight-only, or moved to the Cosmere Discussion forum, we can do that.

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I agree, talking of crossover characters should be ideally done in cosmere forum

Because this thread is spoilers for both OB and warbreaker 

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