Dearius

[OB] Possible evidence of a radiant with Shardplate

36 posts in this topic

I am specifically thinking of what Adolin whitnessed with Jasnah in part five.  Here’s the quote.

Spoiler

A soldier with red eyes suddenly hurtled through the air overhead. Adolin ducked, worried about Fused, but it was an ordinary soldier. The unfortunate man crashed into a rooftop. What on Roshar? As they approached the end of the alleyway, another body smashed into the wall right by the opening. Gripping his Shardblade, Adolin peeked around the corner, expecting to find another stone monster like the one that had climbed into the Ancient Ward. Instead, he found only Jasnah Kholin, looking completely nonplussed. A glow faded around her, different from the smoke of her Stormlight. Like geometric shapes outlining her …"

So I think that it is entirely possible that Jasnah may have already swore enough ideals to get her Shardplate, but is keeping it a secret for some reason.

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I would agree, only it isnt "Possible evidence" It is proof (In my opinion)

 

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Yeah i guess its a Shardplate or at least the proto-Shardplate. Brandon just teasing us with it obviously.

It would be cool if Shardplate in an "alive" form works the same way Shardblades work - its creating and removing in a moment, like the newest versions of Iron Man suits.

Radiant can protect himself with it without an hour of suit up, and immediately remove it if he doesnt need it. Its pretty cool. 

Edited by Harbour
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18 minutes ago, Dearius said:

I am specifically thinking of what Adolin whitnessed with Jasnah in part five.  Here’s the quote.

  Hide contents

A soldier with red eyes suddenly hurtled through the air overhead. Adolin ducked, worried about Fused, but it was an ordinary soldier. The unfortunate man crashed into a rooftop. What on Roshar? As they approached the end of the alleyway, another body smashed into the wall right by the opening. Gripping his Shardblade, Adolin peeked around the corner, expecting to find another stone monster like the one that had climbed into the Ancient Ward. Instead, he found only Jasnah Kholin, looking completely nonplussed. A glow faded around her, different from the smoke of her Stormlight. Like geometric shapes outlining her …"

So I think that it is entirely possible that Jasnah may have already swore enough ideals to get her Shardplate, but is keeping it a secret for some reason.

Nice catch!  Yeah, it really sounds like Jasnah either has or is close to getting, Shardplate.  Jasnah's basically been a few steps ahead of everyone so far, so this would make a lot of sense.

 

4 minutes ago, Harbour said:

Yeah i guess its a Shardplate or at least the proto-Shardplate. Brandon just teasing us with it obviously.

It would be cool if Shardplate in an "alive" form works the same way Shardblades work - its creating and removing in a moment, like the newest versions of Iron Man suits.

Radiant can protect himself with it without an hour of suit up, and immediately remove it if he doesnt need it. Its pretty cool. 

I'm fairly certain that's how it does work.  Dalinar mentions several times in his visions how the Shardbearer's helms seemed to appear and disappear.

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If this is the case I don't think she is keeping it a secret on purpose. The line 

Quote

looking completely nonplussed

made it seem Jasnah was as shocked as Adolin at what had just happened. Its possible this was the first time she used Shardplate or that she did it by accident and had no idea what she had just done. However that paragraph does seem to imply she might have Shardplate, nice catch!

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It could be similar to Kalidin's use of the windspren to break the highstorm. The lesser spren of her order might have come to her aid without fully forming shardplate.

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That was a good catch. Might be shardplate there. Another I think is Shallan, though this is confusing because of her multiple personalities. 

When the images of her mother and father threaten to overwhelm her, first Veil comes, then this:

Quote

Radiant, in glowing garnet Shardplate, tall, with braided hair.

Then, later, when exhausted:

Quote

Jasnah turned toward Radiant, Veil, and Shallan. She took Shallan by the arm—but Shallan wavered, then puffed away. Jasnah froze, then turned to Veil.

“Here,” Radiant said, tired, stumbling to her feet. She was the one Jasnah could feel.

We also have a WoB that Shallan was one level above Kaladin as of the end of WoR, which is plate level based on the epigraphs from the gems. 

I think Shallan was in her own plate here, but it’s hard to say considering how confusing she is. 

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That scene with Jasnah has been bothering me, as neither Stormlight's enhancing properties, nor the Elsecallers' Surges explain the thrown enemy. Plate does. 

These words are accepted.

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Earlier in the story when Shallan was being a little self-important Jasnah directly asked if she had manifested her shardplate yet.  Not really proof per se, but would fit with the theme that Jasnah has progressed to that point.

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40 minutes ago, Argent said:

That scene with Jasnah has been bothering me, as neither Stormlight's enhancing properties, nor the Elsecallers' Surges explain the thrown enemy. Plate does. 

These words are accepted.

Surge of Transportation is descriped as surge of *movement* and Realm Transition, so maybe flying enemy was effect of Surge. But that doesn't mean Jasnah didn't summon something like-plate.

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@Argent I have a theory that Radiants have more than one power granted by each surge. Discussion is in this topic. (Don't know how to link it). I don't think the her throwing people around had anything to do with the spren or the plate. I do agree that this might have been her dismissing the plate or trying to manifest it. Would this also be our first glimpse at logicspren?

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30 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

Earlier in the story when Shallan was being a little self-important Jasnah directly asked if she had manifested her shardplate yet.  Not really proof per se, but would fit with the theme that Jasnah has progressed to that point.

It may not be proof, but it does mean that Jasnah knows how to get Plate, which does hint that she has done it before, or at least learned of it during her magical journey through Shadesmar with the highspren. 

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6 hours ago, Jaconis said:

That was a good catch. Might be shardplate there. Another I think is Shallan, though this is confusing because of her multiple personalities. 

When the images of her mother and father threaten to overwhelm her, first Veil comes, then this:

Then, later, when exhausted:

We also have a WoB that Shallan was one level above Kaladin as of the end of WoR, which is plate level based on the epigraphs from the gems. 

I think Shallan was in her own plate here, but it’s hard to say considering how confusing she is. 

There was a section between your two quotes in which Shallan and her two illusions keep changing visually, one-moment Shallan, then Viel, then Radiant. Radiant is just the one she stopped on.

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While a lot of people are discussing if Jasnah has shardplate, no one has explained why she would hide it?  I would think Jasnah would share as much useful information as possible, not hide it.  We have seen Windspren swirl around Kalldin, I don't think this is anything more than another visual tease.

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On 11/17/2017 at 1:33 PM, RShara said:

Nice catch!  Yeah, it really sounds like Jasnah either has or is close to getting, Shardplate.  Jasnah's basically been a few steps ahead of everyone so far, so this would make a lot of sense

Ditto. She basically trolls Shallan about the Plate earlier in the book, and I would be really surprised if she'd be doing this if she did not have first-hand experience.

I also think that Jasnah has said at least four Ideals of Elsecallers. In a separate thread I mentioned that for various reasons I think that the fourth Ideal of Elsecallers is something like "I will not lose empathy", and we have seen the  confirmation of that in the book. 

 

 

On 11/17/2017 at 2:35 PM, Jaconis said:

which is plate level based on the epigraphs from the gems.

This assumes that Plate level is the same for all Orders. Perhaps this does not need to be this way.

2 hours ago, Vulcronos said:

no one has explained why she would hide it?

Jasnah explains it herself in an earlier conversation with Shallan. She still thinks that Ghostbloods are out to get her, and she no longer wants to give them any advantage. Notice how careful she is in her first POV in Urithuru - she keeps on thinking about the ways for assassins to get to her, and so on.  I think Jasnah feels that she needs the information about her Plate to be her key advantage over the would-be assassins.

 

Alternatively, she may have said her fourth Ideal right around the time of her Renarin scene. That scene fits my exact impression of what the Fourth Ideal of Elsecallers should be (see my comment above), so it could be that she gained a level right on the spot.

 

I think though that she came out of Shadesmar leveled up.

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On 11/17/2017 at 1:02 PM, WhiteLeeopard said:

If this is the case I don't think she is keeping it a secret on purpose. The line "looking completely nonplussed"

made it seem Jasnah was as shocked as Adolin at what had just happened. Its possible this was the first time she used Shardplate or that she did it by accident and had no idea what she had just done. However that paragraph does seem to imply she might have Shardplate, nice catch!

This use of nonplussed apparently means unperturbed / unfazed.

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35 minutes ago, Peet said:

This use of nonplussed apparently means unperturbed / unfazed.

verb (used with object), nonplussed or nonplused, nonplussing or nonplusing.

1.
to render utterly perplexed; puzzle completely.

noun

2.
a state of utter perplexity.
 
I didn't find other options
Edited by WhiteLeeopard
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That's what I thought at first too, but Peter confirmed the intended meaning in the typos thread. Like definition 2 below. 

  1. (of a person) surprised and confused so much that they are unsure how to react.
    "he would be completely nonplussed and embarrassed at the idea"
  2. NORTH AMERICAN informal
    (of a person) not disconcerted; unperturbed

 

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Thank you for tipping me, I wouldn't have realized otherwise. 

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I read this as a possible after effect of her having used her transportation surge. A way to link the apparently random enemies falling all around Adolin with Jasnah as the direct cause of this (like she is using something akin to gateways in the WOT to make soldiers fall through the air). The geometric shapes I thought were just a curious artifact of the use of this surge. But reading it again in context, it sure does seem like possible cousin spren dissipating away from dismissed shardplate. Very interesting.

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12 minutes ago, Peet said:

That's what I thought at first too, but Peter confirmed the intended meaning in the typos thread. Like definition 2 below. 

  1. (of a person) surprised and confused so much that they are unsure how to react.
    "he would be completely nonplussed and embarrassed at the idea"
  2. NORTH AMERICAN informal
    (of a person) not disconcerted; unperturbed

Storms, thats annoying. I mean I am a native English speaker, I don;t really want to have to worry about translation problems when I am reading a book in English. I have never heard of the word non-plussed meaning anything other than confused.

As a side note, I had wondered before about this - North Americans I have known use capacity differently to Brits as well in my experience. For example, Taravangian asks for the "capacity" to beat Odium. A British person would be unlikely to use capacity in this context - we'd be more likely to use ability. Capacity is something we use to describe how much space there is in something. It occasionally might refer to a person's space for managing something - eg their capacity for compassion. On the other hand, if you want to beat something in the UK, you'd ask for the ability to beat them.

Anyone got any thoughts on this or am I reading too much into capacity? I had always wondered if Taravangian had a set "capacity" and he either fills it up with compassion or with intelligence, but not both at the same time because he literally runs out of room!

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The idea that Jasnah would be capable of summoning Shardplate and yet would dismiss it mid fight seems rather odd; if she could wear it surely she would have used it for the whole battle.

Why would she put it away, I can see three possible options for not wearing armour in a battle:

  1. To keep it secret OR
  2. To have a better field of vision OR
  3. To have better freedom of movement

 None of these 3 options seem to work in this situation:

  1. People know that KRs can get shardplate, unless something goes wrong it's going to become common sometime soon why hide it?
  2. If this was the issue then just dismiss the helm or the faceplate, not the whole suit
  3. From all the descriptions we've had shardplate does not hinder movement at all
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13 minutes ago, rjl said:

The idea that Jasnah would be capable of summoning Shardplate and yet would dismiss it mid fight seems rather odd; if she could wear it surely she would have used it for the whole battle.

Why would she put it away, I can see three possible options for not wearing armour in a battle:

  1. To keep it secret OR
  2. To have a better field of vision OR
  3. To have better freedom of movement

 None of these 3 options seem to work in this situation:

  1. People know that KRs can get shardplate, unless something goes wrong it's going to become common sometime soon why hide it?
  2. If this was the issue then just dismiss the helm or the faceplate, not the whole suit
  3. From all the descriptions we've had shardplate does not hinder movement at all

The only reasonable explanation if she did have shardplate for not using it in battle, is if she didn't yet know how to control/use it reliably.

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Read this part of the book twice now and didn't pick this up nice catch! Jasnah certainly seems the furthest along to me or I should say the most comfortable using her abilities in a battle situation so i could easily see her at the 4th oath. I loved all her scenes in the battle. 

Btw I am a North American English speaker and it read the same as the way Brandon intended to me. As basically unconcerned (which would have been a better word to use it seems lol).

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