[OB] Kaladin and Jasnah as a couple

[Vissy]

I'm swayed... Jasnadin has been steadily building up in my head to overtake Shalladin. Maybe I actually do prefer the former. 

@Alderant

For anyone wondering about some of the textual references Alderant made, allow me to provide a few.

Kaladin appreciates Jasnah's appearance:

Quote

"Shallan breathed out again, and the king was transfigured into a tall, stately Alethi woman with features reminiscent of Jasnah's. Kaladin nodded appreciatively. Shallan was right; there was something about the way Elhokar held himself that bespoke nobility. This was an excellent way to deflect people who might wonder who he was. -Oathbringer, p.958

I'm fairly certain I posted about the next quote before, but to reiterate the point, Jasnah reserves her smiles only for the moments when it would be most genuine to do so:

Quote

"Yes, I read that one. All of them, actually." She [Jasnah] looked to him [Dalinar] then, and smiled.

People were always surprised to see emotion from Jasnah, but Dalinar considered that unfair. She did smile - she merely reserved the expression for when it was most genuine. Oathbringer, p.482

And of course, their temperamental compability in the next chapter:

Quote

"If you wish, Captain," Jasnah snapped, "I can get you some mink kits to cuddle while the adults plan. None of us want to talk about this, but that does not make it any less inevitable."

"I'd love that," Kaladin responded. "In turn, I'll get you some eels to cuddle. You'll feel right at home."

Jasnah, curiously, smiled. "Let me ask you this, Captain. Do you think ignoring the movements of the Voidbringers would be wise?"

"Probably not," he admitted. 

"And do you think, perhaps, that you could train your squire Windrunners to fly up high and scout for us? If spanreeds are proving unreliable these days, we'll need another method of watching the enemy. I'd happily cuddle skyeels, as you offer, if your team would be willing to spend some time imitating them."

Feel free to add to this list as you please, nothing else jumps out at me right now. I'm certainly hopeful for Jasnadin to happen over the next books, however. I think it'd be really interesting! 

Edited July 26, 2018 by Vissy

[DSC01]

Jasnah is fifteen years older than Kaladin. Does everyone understand that? There's a major maturity issue here. I am about Jasnah's age, and I would seriously hesitate to date anyone Kaladin's age. This ship doesn't make any sense to me.

[StrikerEZ]

2 hours ago, DSC01 said:

Jasnah is fifteen years older than Kaladin. Does everyone understand that? There's a major maturity issue here. I am about Jasnah's age, and I would seriously hesitate to date anyone Kaladin's age. This ship doesn't make any sense to me.

There are people in relationships where the age gap is sometimes 20+ years. Just because you wouldn't date someone that much younger than you doesn't mean that no one else would. Plus, Kaladin is pretty mature for his age anyway, and I doubt Jasnah would care too much about age when it comes to choosing a partner. As long as they can keep up with her intellectually and can respect her, both of which Kaladin should be able to do, I think she'd be fine with dating someone younger than her.

@Razrback16 Made a better post about this than I just did, so you should read that again. 

[CosmicSieve]

4 hours ago, DSC01 said:

Jasnah is fifteen years older than Kaladin. Does everyone understand that? There's a major maturity issue here. I am about Jasnah's age, and I would seriously hesitate to date anyone Kaladin's age. This ship doesn't make any sense to me.

I guess it comes down to how the age gap feels to the potential romantic participants. I personally don't feel any romantic chemistry between Jasnah and Kaladin, but I have fun reading other people's ships, because why not. I think the "major maturity issue" that would matter is that Jasnah likens Kaladin to a child with her mink kit comment. Azure, who I thought had great chemistry (romantic or not) with Kaladin, likens Kaladin to a young hothead. So there are two women in their mid-thirties who think Kaladin belongs in a younger maturity bracket, which makes me think there is a maturity issue. But there is no reason people shouldn't have fun discussing a ship it if they want to, no matter how implausible to happen some other random internet person thinks it might be. 

 

[Calderis]

16 minutes ago, CosmicSieve said:

Azure, who I thought had great chemistry (romantic or not) with Kaladin, likens Kaladin to a young hothead. So there are two women in their mid-thirties who think Kaladin belongs in a younger maturity bracket

You may need to rethink Azure's age... 

[CosmicSieve]

43 minutes ago, Calderis said:

You may need to rethink Azure's age... 

I don't know her true age, but Adolin pegged her at mid-thirties in appearance. I haven't read Warbreaker yet, though, so I can concede that she could just be a young-looking bajillion for as far as I know.

[Vissy]

Just now, CosmicSieve said:

I don't know her true age, but Adolin pegged her at mid-thirties in appearance. I haven't read Warbreaker yet, though, so I can concede that she could just be a young-looking bajillion for as far as I know.

Whatever the number you're thinking of, multiply it by ten and you're probably much closer.

[Razrback16]

4 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

@Razrback16 Made a better post about this than I just did, so you should read that again. 

Thanks.

[1st of Lunch]

Wow...6 Looong pages of ship thread.

 

Interesting. 

 

While I thought the Kaladin/Jasnah interactions had some chemistry I totally ship SzethNah!

[goody153]

13 hours ago, DSC01 said:

Jasnah is fifteen years older than Kaladin. Does everyone understand that? There's a major maturity issue here. I am about Jasnah's age, and I would seriously hesitate to date anyone Kaladin's age. This ship doesn't make any sense to me.

Being older does not equate to maturity. Being older doesn't mean the person is wiser. Hell being older doesn't mean the person is more responsible. 

I don't even need Stormlight Archives or Cosmere examples for this(if you really want there's two obvious ones in Warbreaker). You just need only need to look at real life( i've known younger people who are ALOT more responsible and mature than adults and i've known adults who are basically kids and not in a good way). 

Stop assuming that the older the person is the more wise/responsible/better than a younger. Age doesn't mean you're automatically better just gives you more chances to change for the better. 

Besides May-December Romance can totally work.

Edited July 27, 2018 by goody153

[CrazyRioter]

Just because Jasnah finds Kaladin amusing doesn't mean she wants to date him.. People of opposite genders can respect and like each other without dating.

And I would say that while age doesn't necessarily equal maturity Jasnah is definitely considerably more mature than Kaladin.

[goody153]

I'd argue about Jasnah being more mature than Kaladin. Kaladin has taken responsibilities that Jasnah couldn't and wouldn't. Jasnah is absolutely more pragmatic in nature but do not see how Jasnah more or less mature than Kaladin/Renarin/Adolin/Dalinar.

What is maturity even ? How would define maturity ? Is it acting socially acceptable in the eyes of the public ? Is it being your perspective being shaped the "correct" way whoever judged what the correct way is? Is it about owing responsibilities ? Is it about being more selfless or selfish in nature ? Is it about being less about doing what you feel and more about what should be done ? Is it about being jaded in life ? Is it about giving up living idealistically ?(isn't this what SA is about ) Or is it about leaning towards being less idealistic and more realistic ? I think alot of people would have different definition of what a mature person should act. 

I think we are talking about different definitions of maturity here if you think Jasnah is more mature. 

And i was mainly arguing about the age being the indicator of how mature a person. 

I do hope for Jasnah-Kaladin but i think the issue would be Kaladin is too idealistic and Jasnah is too pragmatic that they'd clash from there.

Edited July 27, 2018 by goody153

[Razrback16]

15 hours ago, goody153 said:

I do hope for Jasnah-Kaladin but i think the issue would be Kaladin is too idealistic and Jasnah is too pragmatic that they'd clash from there.

Ya, this is where things will hinge upon most IMO - I would like to think they'll be able to learn from each other a bit - both give a little in their viewpoints because they're both "too extreme" in their beliefs / ideologies. Jasnah we saw "give a little" when it came to Renarin at the end of OB. And Kaladin needs to sort of "care a little less" - caring is good don't get me wrong, but he cares so much to the point of it basically being a fault. He needs a little bit of Jasnah's reasoning injected into his thought process, just as she needs a little bit of his. JMO.

[Angsos]

Kaladin's evolution will hinge on Elokhar since he died because Kal cared about everyone in that skirmish

[The Harlem Worldhoppers]

3 hours ago, Angsos said:

Kaladin's evolution will hinge on Elokhar since he died because Kal cared about everyone in that skirmish

I don't really see this ship leaving the harbour but plenty of the arguments here hold merit. Something else to consider is that Elhokar's death and Gavinor's status as an orphan could be an area where Jasnah and Kaladin find common ground. Kaladin likely feels somewhat responsible for Gavinor's wellbeing as he failed to save his father while Jasnah values her family above all else and may cling to the last living connection she has to her brother. Of course, this same argument could be used to develop a close friendship rather than a romantic relationship.

[Argel]

Wouldn't be the first time a friendship develops into a relationship. If they do ship, I wonder if we're going to have to wait for Jasnah's book.... SIGH.

[Razrback16]

Ya, I could even see it being "developed" slowly over the next couple of books, and then having the big "10-15 year" gap between books 5-6 where all of a sudden a bunch of things have changed, and we're seeing some flashbacks in that second set of 5 books of how certain things happened. Using this thread topic as an example, perhaps Book 6 would begin where you'd see Kaladin & Jasnah into a lengthy relationship and then reading about flashbacks from that 10-15 year period between book 5-6 to sort of fill in the gaps on the details of how it finally happened, etc., while also allowing for major world and character / relationship changes to set the stage for the 2nd set of books.

[galendo]

On 7/26/2018 at 0:08 PM, Calderis said:

You may need to rethink Azure's age... 

 

On 7/26/2018 at 0:56 PM, Vissy said:

Whatever the number you're thinking of, multiply it by ten and you're probably much closer.

Wait, why do people think this?  It's admittedly been a while since I read Warbreaker, but I don't remember anything about Breath extending lifespan.  Unless Azure is somehow Returned, it seems like she should age and die just like everyone else.

[CrazyRioter]

Breath does extend lifespan.

[Calderis]

1 hour ago, galendo said:

Wait, why do people think this?  It's admittedly been a while since I read Warbreaker, but I don't remember anything about Breath extending lifespan.  Unless Azure is somehow Returned, it seems like she should age and die just like everyone else.

The fifth heightening, which is roughly 2000 breaths, grants "agelessness" which is function immortality and protection from all poison and disease. 

The Divine breath grants all heightenings up to and including the Fifth. 

Add in that Vasher has been on Roshar for a bare minimum of 15 years just to cover his time as a Ardent/swordmaster, then add in however long he was here before he got into that role, and the events of the as yet unwritten Nightblood... 

At bare minimum, Azure should be remarkably older then she looks. If the events of Warbreaker are closer to Era 1 Mistborn than Era 2, then she could be as much as 300.

[CosmicSieve]

Of course, my point still stands: Azure thinks Kaladin belongs in a younger maturity bracket than she does, and Jasnah seems to place Kaladin in an even younger maturity bracket than that.

Edited July 29, 2018 by CosmicSieve

[Angsos]

Considering that Stormlight can be converted to Breath, Vivenna/Azure could have however much Breath she wants. They both may be functionally immortal and anyway, I see Jasnah setting or trying to set Kal up with someone to reinforce alliances since he's basically a Kholin now anyway.

[goody153]

Azure/Vivenna could've just totally gotten her longetivity the same way the 17th sharders had by slowing down their aging. I know Breath's are convenient reason but it could be just the world hopper way too

2 hours ago, CosmicSieve said:

Of course, my point still stands: Azure thinks Kaladin belongs in a younger maturity bracket than she does, and Jasnah seems to place Kaladin in an even younger maturity bracket than that.

If you just meant age then sure. If you meant that being older means being more mature then that's just incorrect(we are talking about post-teenage years not childhood years). 

People around their 50's be less immature than somebody in their 20's.

Edited July 30, 2018 by goody153

[CosmicSieve]

43 minutes ago, goody153 said:

 

If you just meant age then sure. If you meant that being older means being more mature then that's just incorrect(we are talking about post-teenage years not childhood years). 

People around their 50's be less immature than somebody in their 20's.

I was talking about the characters' perceptions of who is a match for their own maturity level. I think people generally would prefer a match with someone they consider around there own maturity level, which doesn't necessarily have to do with actual age, but actual age might matter to the characters' perceptions. I do disagree with Jasnah's assessment that Kaladin's objections are childish, but that was her opinion.

Edited July 30, 2018 by CosmicSieve
can't punctuate properly

[Argel]

Azure has seen glimpses of Kaladin on a good day, but most of the time was after the PTSD events at the palace, then in Shadesmar where his depression was beginning to weigh him down, then with Syl imprisoned. She never really gets a chance to see him at his best, and that "vision" thing tainted things even more.

Regarding Jasnah, we need to be careful equating pragmatism with maturity.  Considering Kaladin's age and what he's accomplished I don't think she views him as immature or a hothead (given the baggage associated with that word). Probably more along the lines of being too passionate and idealistic at times. An immature hothead would not be able to go toe to to with her, at least not over the long run.  There's also Jasnah's comments to her spren about being more emotional than he believes, which could increase Kaladin's appeal to her (i.e. both are passionate and smart). 

Throw in Gavinar and I don't have any problems shipping them. Though with everything going on, it could take a long time to happen.