Thread89

[OB] Kaladin and Jasnah as a couple

250 posts in this topic

Hello Guys,

While reading Oathbringer (amazing experience by the way), the exchange between Kaladin and Jasnah (Chapter 39, Page 467) struck me as a relationship that just might work. I thought of this because I believe it would be so cliche if BS takes Shallan from Adolin (that combo already works IMHO) 

Kaladin with Jasnah works perfectly especially with when Kaladin falls into his auto depression mode, Jasnah can easily logic him back to focus and Kal can give Jasnah the tilt to human emotions(Lol!).

And please don't talk about the age difference. The book already is as liberal as it gets with Drehy being gay..

Edited by Thread89
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Moved to Oathbringer Spoilers. Introduce Yourself is a spoiler-free zone.

Oh, and welcome to the Shard!

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9 minutes ago, Thread89 said:

Hello Guys,

While reading Oathbringer (amazing experience by the way), the exchange between Kaladin and Jasnah (Chapter 39, Page 467) struck me as a relationship that just might work. I thought of this because I believe it would be so cliche if BS takes Shallan from Adolin (that combo already works IMHO) 

Kaladin with Jasnah works perfectly especially with when Kaladin falls into his auto depression mode, Jasnah can easily logic him back to focus and Kal can give Jasnah the tilt to human emotions(Lol!).

 

They were borderline completely indifferent to her. Not to mention the 16 year age gap(which squiks me right out) and the fact Jasnah has no need for a relationship. A romance arc for Jasnah would undermine so much of her character. I mean, the only thing they had in common was a contempt for Amaram. 

So in short, no. Jasnah doesn't need to be made human. She's already human. She cares. She loves her family. She has some kind of trauma in her past I suspect was sexual in nature. But she's not a vulnerable person, something that emotional romantic relationships need. Lets let that be her arc. It's already great without saddling her with all the weird emotions that go into relationships. 

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7 minutes ago, Aminar said:

They were borderline completely indifferent to her. Not to mention the 16 year age gap(which squiks me right out) and the fact Jasnah has no need for a relationship. A romance arc for Jasnah would undermine so much of her character. I mean, the only thing they had in common was a contempt for Amaram. 

So in short, no. Jasnah doesn't need to be made human. She's already human. She cares. She loves her family. She has some kind of trauma in her past I suspect was sexual in nature. But she's not a vulnerable person, something that emotional romantic relationships need. Lets let that be her arc. It's already great without saddling her with all the weird emotions that go into relationships. 

I get your position and she works as independent character with no romantic attachments but my position is that regardless of her very strong independent character, having a romantic attachment doesn't necessary reduce her as a character.

A great woman can be great without a man, that is an established fact.

At the same time, I do think she can reveal the more vulnerable parts of herself to a partner especially the trauma in her past that i think further defined her aloof personality.

And c'mon about the age difference! 

Relationships are not about age but more about emotions and feelings.

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IMO Jasnah should be single for at least the first half if not the entire series. I actually quite like the idea of her having purely rational reasons to simply want to be single, regardless of whether the initial impulse came from trauma or not.

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1 minute ago, Ari said:

IMO Jasnah should be single for at least the first half if not the entire series. I actually quite like the idea of her having purely rational reasons to simply want to be single, regardless of whether the initial impulse came from trauma or not.

This option I can agree with as a build up for any possible relationship if 1 does happen.

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Just now, Thread89 said:

I get your position and she works as independent character with no romantic attachments but my position is that regardless of her very strong independent character, having a romantic attachment doesn't necessary reduce her as a character.

A great woman can be great without a man, that is an established fact.

At the same time, I do think she can reveal the more vulnerable parts of herself to a partner especially the trauma in her past that i think further defined her aloof personality.

And c'mon about the age difference! 

Relationships are not about age but more about emotions and feelings.

I beg to differ. There are boundaries with age that should not be crossed in regards to age that don't go away until at least 25. Kal is 19. He is, despite everything he's faced, still largely a kid. That's why his character arc is about the very difficult for most adults, accepting that which he cannot control. More than just a kid, he's a judgemental jerk a lot of the time. That maturing is something that's dealt with through peer interactions. Jasnah has faced those things. She's self actualized in a way he hasn't. A relationship with her wouldn't be healthy. It would alter that development(and most likely Jasnah still sees him as a child.) They cannot be emotional equals yet. Not for a long time. 

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Just now, Thread89 said:

This option I can agree with as a build up for any possible relationship if 1 does happen.

Plus it would be an amusing tension with her being Queen now, and being expected to have additional heirs even if Elhokar's kid is currently set to inherit. :)

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1 minute ago, Aminar said:

I beg to differ. There are boundaries with age that should not be crossed in regards to age that don't go away until at least 25. Kal is 19. He is, despite everything he's faced, still largely a kid. That's why his character arc is about the very difficult for most adults, accepting that which he cannot control. More than just a kid, he's a judgemental jerk a lot of the time. That maturing is something that's dealt with through peer interactions. Jasnah has faced those things. She's self actualized in a way he hasn't. A relationship with her wouldn't be healthy. It would alter that development(and most likely Jasnah still sees him as a child.) They cannot be emotional equals yet. Not for a long time. 

There are 7 more books to go so i think his maturity will surely grow over time.

And again age is not necessarily a measure of maturity.

Their age difference is the least part I am worried about.

Age will only matter if maturity is also a problem 

There lots of people out ther that are mature beyond their years and others have their maturity way below their age.

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5 minutes ago, Ari said:

Plus it would be an amusing tension with her being Queen now, and being expected to have additional heirs even if Elhokar's kid is currently set to inherit. :)

Exactly.

Give more context to the story.

I didn't even think about this before.

I just would like to see Jasnah being conflicted in a romantic light.

And imagine her having ridiculous attractions for a bridgeman years younger than her.

Edited by Thread89
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22 minutes ago, Aminar said:

I beg to differ. There are boundaries with age that should not be crossed in regards to age that don't go away until at least 25. Kal is 19. He is, despite everything he's faced, still largely a kid. That's why his character arc is about the very difficult for most adults, accepting that which he cannot control. More than just a kid, he's a judgemental jerk a lot of the time. That maturing is something that's dealt with through peer interactions. Jasnah has faced those things. She's self actualized in a way he hasn't. A relationship with her wouldn't be healthy. It would alter that development(and most likely Jasnah still sees him as a child.) They cannot be emotional equals yet. Not for a long time. 

Not that I disagree with your point (even though I want to see Jasnadin happen you're certainly raising valid points about age here, and it might have to wait until Kaladin is older), but I want to point out that Rosharan years are longer than Earth years. Assuming that people mature as fast on Roshar as they do here, Kaladin would equal a 21 year old.

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2 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

Not that I disagree with your point (even though I want to see Jasnadin happen you're certainly raising valid points about age here, and it might have to wait until Kaladin is older), but I want to point out that Rosharan years are longer than Earth years. Assuming that people mature as fast on Roshar as they do here, Kaladin would equal a 21 year old.

Kaladin is 21 which means there's a 14 years age difference which I substantial I know but also not insurmountable.

Besides I think BS set a benchmark by being beyond societal norms by making this books have multi cultural backgrounds, different religion and beliefs within a small space and also liberal stance like same sex relationship so what's age compared to all that...

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1 minute ago, Thread89 said:

Kaladin is 21 which means there's a 14 years age difference which I substantial I know but also not insurmountable.

Besides I think BS set a benchmark by being beyond societal norms by making this books have multi cultural backgrounds, different religion and beliefs within a small space and also liberal stance like same sex relationship so what's age compared to all that...

Don't forget that you have to use the same 10% age increase for Jasnah.

As for the age difference being a problem though, this is very much a subject on which people will never agree. Some even argue that the difference between Adolin and Shallan (6 years if I'm not mistaken) is too much, while others argue that the 15-some years between Kaladin and Jasnah are not a problem at all. I don't think it is useful to have a discussion about this, as it is all about opinions and gut feelings.

What I can say - and what is also all I will say - is that I am 21 years old myself, and that I would not necessarily be opposed to a relationship with a 35 year old woman, but I would certainly think it's very weird. I think that it can happen that two people with such an age difference just love each other and want to be together, but I don't think that it's likely, and I wouldn't blame people for thinking it wrong.

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20 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

Don't forget that you have to use the same 10% age increase for Jasnah.

As for the age difference being a problem though, this is very much a subject on which people will never agree. Some even argue that the difference between Adolin and Shallan (6 years if I'm not mistaken) is too much, while others argue that the 15-some years between Kaladin and Jasnah are not a problem at all. I don't think it is useful to have a discussion about this, as it is all about opinions and gut feelings.

What I can say - and what is also all I will say - is that I am 21 years old myself, and that I would not necessarily be opposed to a relationship with a 35 year old woman, but I would certainly think it's very weird. I think that it can happen that two people with such an age difference just love each other and want to be together, but I don't think that it's likely, and I wouldn't blame people for thinking it wrong.

My thought too...

Unlikely but would be interesting nonetheless

Besides it will at least stoke some debate as it brings to it a real life conversation.

I always thought Kaladin and Shallan would have been to convenient and not necessarily complementary though.

In every world dating someone 10 years older or younger than you would always be very weird by it doesn't mean it wouldn't work. It all depends on the parties involved and how much maturity they can bring to play. 

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1 minute ago, Thread89 said:

My thought too...

Unlikely but would be interesting nonetheless

Besides it will at least stoke some debate as it brings to it a real life conversation.

I always thought Kaladin and Shallan would have been to convenient and not necessarily complementary though.

In every world dating someone 10 years older or younger than you would always be very weird by it doesn't mean it wouldn't work. It all depends on the parties involved and how much maturity they can bring to play. 

I could see some sort of romantic tension between them playing out, but maybe not a full fledged relationship.

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Although he enjoyed bantering with Shallan (sometimes), ultimately I get the impression that the characteristic Kaladin would most desire in a partner is empathy and a healing nature.

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6 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

Although he enjoyed bantering with Shallan (sometimes), ultimately I get the impression that the characteristic Kaladin would most desire in a partner is empathy and a healing nature.

Lift!

(hey, she's closer to him in age than Jasnah is!)

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Just now, Subvisual Haze said:

Although he enjoyed bantering with Shallan (sometimes), ultimately I get the impression that the characteristic Kaladin would most desire in a partner is empathy and a healing nature.

Not necessarily...

What he mostly liked about Shallan was that she very much reminded him about Tien cos of her ability to always smile and see the beauty everywhere which in turn always made his depression disappear.

Shallan also had a self deprecating humour and intelligent like his mum to a certain extent. All these just reminded him about home.

I believe in a relationship, he would probably tilt towards someone who has all these quality but still able to know herself and I think Jasnah's maturity might rub off him. 

Besides I am hopeful we will see a bit more about the back story of Jasnah and her progress to a romantic allusion if it is the direction that B.S. follows. 

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1 minute ago, Leyrann said:

Lift!

(hey, she's closer to him in age than Jasnah is!)

C'mon!!

 

They are as further apart from each other in every way possible as they can be..

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I am reasonably sure that both Kaladin and Jasnah aren't destined for any romantic relationships in the near future.  They're both sort of broken at this point and need to fix themselves before they can form a real attachment with someone.  I would reckon that we aren't going to see a romantic relationship begin/develop among the main cast without the book being focused on one of the two people in the relationship.

I'd bet money on Lift with Kaladin in the back 5 (not a lot of money, but more than even odds).

If I had to pick between established characters, I'd guess that Jasnah would be with Lyn or Rysn. However, I think Jasnah will end up more like Elizabeth I.

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Just now, Thread89 said:

C'mon!!

 

They are as further apart from each other in every way possible as they can be..

Well, if you're looking for empathy and a healing nature, not to mention optimism and the ability to smile... :P

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3 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

Lift!

(hey, she's closer to him in age than Jasnah is!)

hah, I had the same thought as I was typing up my original reply.

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1 minute ago, Leyrann said:

Well, if you're looking for empathy and a healing nature, not to mention optimism and the ability to smile... :P

Lol!

She would run rings around Kaladin..

Picturing a conversation between them right now and I just keep smiling...

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I waited for 3 years to see their dynamic. And in my opinion that ship just drowned in the first scene where they argued. The only part that confused me is that:
 

Quote

-Id love that, - Kaladin responded. - In turn, I'll get you some eels to cuddle. You'll feel right at home.

Jasnah, curiously, smiled.

-I'd happily cuddle skyeels, as you offer, if your team would be willing to spend some time imitating them.

Did she flirt with him here? Well, if shed replace "your team" with "you" then id difinitely consider it as flirting.

But other than that weird part i found zero indication of potential for that ship. The next scene where Jasnah saw Kaladin's picture Shallan drew also show that she simply wasnt interested in the guy.

In OB there is no even hints on them being interested in each other. The only scene was the first one with Jasnah asking Shallan who is that Windrunner she didnt talk with yet. And even there BS didnt take an opportunity to make some hints.

Also i really didnt dig their banter. It felt forced on Jasnah part. She really lack empathy and that trait, i think, is very significat for Kaladin to be attracted. Tarah and Shallan show empathy. When he found out that laral became a cold woman he immediately lost any interest in her.

I see that Kaladin's passion and intensity and higher than average intelligence might be attractive for Jasnah though. But thats not enough. They talked only once in 1200+ pages didnt they?

Edited by Harbour
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Just now, Harbour said:

I waited for 3 years to see their dynamic. And in my opinion that ship just drowned in the first scene where they argued. The only part that confused me is that:
 

Does she firt with him here? Well, if she replace "your team" with "you" then id difinitely consider it as flirting.

But other than that weird part i found zero indication of potential for that ship. The next scene where Jasnah saw Kaladin's picture Shallan drew also show that she simply wasnt interested in the guy.

In OB there is no even hints on them being interested in each other. The only scene was the first one with Jasnah asking Shallan who is that Windrunner she didnt talk with yet. And even there BS didnt take an opportunity to make some hints.

Also i really didnt dig their banter. It felt forced on Jasnah part. She really lack empathy and that trait, i think, is very significat for Kaladin to be attracted. Tarah and Shallan show empathy. When he found out that laral became a cold woman he immediately lost any interest in her.

I see that Kaladin's passion and intensity and higher than average intelligence might be attractive for Jasnah though. But thats not enough. They talked only once in 1200+ pages didnt they?

You don't get it. It isn't about the likelyhood, it's about the shipping.

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