[OB] Adolin-Shallan-Kaladin Discussion

[kari-no-sugata]

7 hours ago, PhineasGage said:

I think its also important to remember how quickly this is all happening. Dalinar only started getting the visions 6 months ago. Shallan arrived at the Shattered Plains approximately 2 months ago by my reckoning (she arrives just after Szeth attacks Dalinar). The whole of Oathbringer likely lasts only about 1 month. As a point, a month in Roshar is 50 days (each day being shorter than 1 Earth day)and there are 10 months in the year = 500 days per year and 1000 per full cycle (from lightday in the weeping to the next 2 years later). Mistakes will occur, both tactically and emotionally as they are running at full speed all the time.

Regarding timelines: https://brandonsanderson.com/oathbringers-timeline/

Quote

The timeline for Oathbringer starts on day 4 of the new year, and ends on day 100. (Which, for those of you who keep track of such things, makes the date 1174.2.10.5). My day count could change by a day or two here and there, but I’m pretty happy with how I got the different groups of people to all end up in the same place at the same time.

So OB is basically 2 Roshar months. I presume that includes the epilogue with Wit, which is "weeks after the fall of Kholinar". The last scene with Dalinar is just after the wedding. It would be interesting to know just how much time passed since the end battle. In Taravangian's POV it's 8 days. Shallan's POV saying the wedding is a week away could easily be several days or even weeks after that. Anyway, let's say her wedding is at least 15 days (3 Roshar weeks) after the end battle.

[PlanetReelo]

27 minutes ago, PhineasGage said:

Im prepared to assume it is all good writing and deliberate. We've still got 2 books to go in this arc, notwithstanding the possibility of some stories continuing into the back 5. If Shallan/Adolin get some well written sequences, I'll be jumping ship. I cannot believe that he would pander to the crowd though, he'd lose so much integrity as an author. Plus he'd annoy loads of people, even Shadolin fans because so much time was given in the books towards pushing/foreshadowing Shalladin.

I'm not so sure that shalladin is a possibility anymore. I remember BS saying in an interview that he wants his books to be the sort that he would be proud of his children reading. And whilst that can be interpreted as excluding scenes of a sexual nature, I think it may also mean that he is likely to intergrate his mormon beliefs into the book more readily. And it's my understanding that the sanctity of marriage is important in his religion, and therefore he is unlikely to break shadolin apart now that they've wed. And adultery is most certainly a grave sin, and I can't see BS debasing his characters like that.

Regardless of OBs outcome, I'm still a shalladin shipper. That doesn't mean that I think that they'll end up together, or that they'll even have any more meaningful scenes together. But I'll always ship them for the way they made me feel when I was reading about them during the chasm scene. I honestly have never become so quickly attached to a ship as I did then. When I reread the chasm scene, it will almost certainly be slightly tinged in sadness, but I don't mind so much because I've always enjoyed bittersweet romance too.

[discorat]

10 minutes ago, PlanetReelo said:

I'm not so sure that shalladin is a possibility anymore. I remember BS saying in an interview that he wants his books to be the sort that he would be proud of his children reading. And whilst that can be interpreted as excluding scenes of a sexual nature, I think it may also mean that he is likely to intergrate his mormon beliefs into the book more readily. And it's my understanding that the sanctity of marriage is important in his religion, and therefore he is unlikely to break shadolin apart now that they've wed. And adultery is most certainly a grave sin, and I can't see BS debasing his characters like that.

Regardless of OBs outcome, I'm still a shalladin shipper. That doesn't mean that I think that they'll end up together, or that they'll even have any more meaningful scenes together. But I'll always ship them for the way they made me feel when I was reading about them during the chasm scene. I honestly have never become so quickly attached to a ship as I did then. When I reread the chasm scene, it will almost certainly be slightly tinged in sadness, but I don't mind so much because I've always enjoyed bittersweet romance too.

Well,, Dalinar/Navani happened, imo thats the most 'scandalous' pairing hes had so far

[Ailvara]

25 minutes ago, Discofrish said:

Well,, Dalinar/Navani happened, imo thats the most 'scandalous' pairing hes had so far

Both of your comments state precisely why I think Adolin will die. As much as I love him, someone of the main-mains needs to die before all this over and there are some characters that I would cry for even more. 

[Guest]

Well, he does make an interesting target... Renowned fighter/duelist, full Shardbearer, son of Dalinar, now highprince of the Kholin princedom and husband of the probably furthest Lightweaver on Roshar right now. The listeners seem to groom Moash into an assassin... I don't want to jinx it, but I can see some merit in the idea. I don't know how I feel about it though.

Edited November 18, 2017 by SLNC

[discorat]

14 minutes ago, Ailvara said:

Both of your comments state precisely why I think Adolin will die. As much as I love him, someone of the main-mains needs to die before all this over and there are some characters that I would cry for even more. 

Oh no, I love Adolin, I couldn't deal with him dying  

aggghhhh this is frustrating! On one hand, Adolin+Shallan is not a pairing I would say Brandon would be satisfied with, on another he doesn't like character deaths, especially mains. But Adolin as a character is frustrating too- what is he? Hes the stronger Kholin son- but Renarin is becoming much stronger too, now. He's a true warrior, hes a shadow of his father. Does he have a true place, like the others? He gives me (mistborn era 1 spoilers)

kelsier vibes, in that i think hes gonna die

What do yall think is gonna happen when Adolin finds out Dalinar killed his mother? Thats something that could trigger something in Adolin, I think. Maybe Adolins similarity with Dalinar will make Adolin+Shallans marriage end as badly as Dalinar+Evi's marriage. Evi dead, but shallan, divorced, maybe? Maybe shallan ends up killing Adolin, sort of continuing that line. I'm just blabbering about. I'm angry, but intrigued at the same time. 

Edited November 18, 2017 by Discofrish

[PlanetReelo]

41 minutes ago, Discofrish said:

Well,, Dalinar/Navani happened, imo thats the most 'scandalous' pairing hes had so far

Because he's already done the Navani and Dalinar pairing, I can't see him going through the exact same themes again with Shallan and Kaladin. Not to mention Adolin would have to die to make it happen, and whilst that would make for an interesting turn of events it's bound to mess Shallan up a lot more then she already is. Lord knows the girl is already a hot mess!

That being said, the idea of Shallan having to kill Adolin is really interesting @Discofrish. I wonder what circumstances would lead to having to take such drastic measures against one you supposedly love? I like the drama of it 

[discorat]

1 minute ago, PlanetReelo said:

Because he's already done the Navani and Dalinar pairing, I can't see him going through the exact same themes again with Shallan and Kaladin. Not to mention Adolin would have to die to make it happen, and whilst that would make for an interesting turn of events it's bound to mess Shallan up a lot more then she already is. Lord knows the girl is already a hot mess!

That being said, the idea of Shallan having to kill Adolin is really interesting @Discofrish. I wonder what circumstances would lead to having to take such drastic measures against one you supposedly love? I like the drama of it 

You're right, he already took the Dalinar/Navani path, but then hes also taken the Adolin/Shallan path before too in other books.

What would make Dalinar kill His wife? A force that controls him of course

It's just blabbery theories from me, but The Shallan/Adolin pairing makes me insane with theories on how they could be broken apart. It's just too bland for Sanderson, imo. I don't think he wrote the most romantic scenes hes ever written just to throw it away in a 'just an exotic attraction' and 'she reminds me of my brother' thing

[Nef]

1 hour ago, SLNC said:

Especially, because it continues after the fact that Adolin and Shallan is getting married for reasons you already supplied. Annoys me to no end. If it is done, let it rest.

From memory, the last scene where Shallan expresses any attraction to Kaladin is the scene where essentially tells Adolin that she's decided on him. I think most people are going to take Shallan on her word that her attraction to Kaladin is merely aesthetic. After this we find out that Shallan and Adolin have a date set for marriage and I don't remember Shallan having any significant thoughts about Kaladin in her subsequent POV.

That said, you guys are really making me come around to the idea that the love triangle might not be concluded. It really is strange that we went from inner dialogues of Kaladin and Shallan seeming to "get" each other after chasm scene in WoR to the latter part of OB where it's heavily implied that Shallan was only superficially attracted to Kaladin and Kaladin kinda didn't understand Shallan after all. It does feel like a waste.

What scares me though is imagining how BS is suppose to pull off a continuation of the love triangle after faking a conclusion in OB. It'll take masterful writing and a lot of bravery to make it work given how contentious it is having a love triangle in the first place.

[Harbour]

I shake my head in confusion thinking about the amount of walls Shallan and Adolin can smash in. Its okay to have some doubts before the wedding in our life, its essential and understandable thing.

But in case of Alethi's culture and in case of Shallan's personality its really a very worrisome thing. 1/3 or even half of her if not to count an indifferent Radiant really likes another dude.

On part of Shallan just imagine her living with Adolin and someday thinking about the other guy. Imagine if she really will be fed up with Adolin for some reason.  Slowly, even sometimes, not always. That may happen, in BS book, easily.

Imagine then what a storm will engulf her.

-There will be desire to break up;

-there will be an understanding that its pretty bad idea in itself to break up given Kholin family and her duty as the part of that family and KR;

-there will be an unbearable guilt before Adolin because it was she who convinced Adolin to marry her;

-and of course there will be the fear that Adolin may notice something.

Thats the list of thing that may (or may not of course) happen with Shallan if Sanderson will bring conflict in their marriage. I presonally doubt there will be just a rainbow, flowers, positiviity, happiness and butterflies flying around every day. Especially if there will be 1 year timeskip after OB.

On part of Adolin its really painfull thing. In fact he told truth about Shallan and Kaladin, and Shallan even confirmed that Veil (cough part of Shallan cough) is interested in Kaladin. But she make him sure everything is gonna be okay. Yeah, poor guy. He acted strangely unselfish. He could foreseen what can happen if Shallan will let himself to stare at Kaladin. He could prevent himself from potential suffering. I guess he really loves Shallan he knows.

-He will get suspicious especially if Shallan wont controll Veil;

-He well fight himself to not be jealous because he is a kind man;

-He will fight himself to continue to be a friend with Kaladin;

-He will fight everyone to create the vision of stable family;

-Ultimately he may fight own hatred thinking "She told me everything gonna be okay. Why did i listen to her?!"

Of course, its just the list of potential things people are able to witness when their partners want to at least mentally cheat on them. Given Alethi culture and Shallan's personalities, the chances of these things to happen are higher than in our, real, world.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Harbour

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Nef said:

From memory, the last scene where Shallan expresses any attraction to Kaladin is the scene where essentially tells Adolin that she's decided on him. I think most people are going to take Shallan on her word that her attraction to Kaladin is merely aesthetic. After this we find out that Shallan and Adolin have a date set for marriage and I don't remember Shallan having any significant thoughts about Kaladin in her subsequent POV.

I'm more or less thinking about the stuff, that was mentioned regarding the sapphire wedding gown... I mean, why sapphire? The traditional color in Vorinism for weddings is red, because it represents luck. Navani wore it, when she married Dalinar. I would have understood Kholin blue, but that has never been described as sapphire. Sapphire is the color of Windrunners and has been defined as such multiple times. And the fact, that Veil doesn't really seem to be convinced of Adolin. Those little hints were always Brandon's style. I don't know why... it just seems odd, but maybe I'm just deluding myself.

 

Edited November 18, 2017 by SLNC

[Nef]

3 minutes ago, SLNC said:

I'm more or less thinking about the stuff, that was mentioned regarding the sapphire wedding gown... I mean, why sapphire? The traditional color in Vorinism for weddings is red. I would have understood Kholin blue, but that has never been described as sapphire. Sapphire is the color of Windrunners and has been defined as such multiple times. And the fact, that Veil doesn't really seem to be convinced of Adolin. Those little hints were always Brandon's style. I don't know why... it just seems odd, but maybe I'm just deluding myself.

 

Hmm, interesting thoughts. I interpreted Sapphire as representing Kholin blue, Elkohar mentions that Kholinar is attached to the Windrunner Order somehow.

[Info_Drone-0451]

36 minutes ago, SLNC said:

I'm more or less thinking about the stuff, that was mentioned regarding the sapphire wedding gown... I mean, why sapphire? The traditional color in Vorinism is red. I would have understood Kholin blue, but that has never been described as sapphire. Sapphire is the color of Windrunners and has been defined as such multiple times. And the fact, that Veil doesn't really seem to be convinced of Adolin. Those little hints were always Brandon's style. I don't know why... it just seems odd, but maybe I'm just deluding myself.

 

I'm thinking the same my self. There are all these small and big hints, teases and the fact that the whole thing is uncharacteristically written for BS that makes me think we are not done with this, but then again I might be seeing things that are not there and I have a case of confirmation bias.

Edited November 18, 2017 by DimChatz

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Nef said:

I interpreted Sapphire as representing Kholin blue

Could absolutely be!

It just strikes me as odd, that Kholin blue has always been describe as... well Kholin blue. Seems to me, that it is supposed to be a shade of deep blue with no real name for it. And, well, Brandon can hardly put a hexcode for the color in the book

Edited November 18, 2017 by SLNC

[Starla]

@SLNC As a web developer and color junkie, I've paid close attention to Kholin blue and my head canon is the Cobalt Guard uniforms are cobalt (#0047AB), the text says that non-cobalt guard uniforms are a darker shade of blue, most likely closer to navy (#000080), and sapphire is a tad lighter than cobalt (#0F52BA). So... I'm not sure what this tells us. 

[Guest]

@Starla

Then I would say, that the darker shade of blue would be Kholin blue, since in Alethkar soldier's uniforms seem to be in the color of their respective house (Sadeas' soldiers wearing green).

Still would like some confirmation.

Though I think, that Brandon would just describe something as Kholin blue, if he meant it to be Kholin blue, not sapphire.

Edited November 18, 2017 by SLNC

[Starla]

@SLNC That makes sense. And note that Kaladin is captain of the cobalt guard, so wears the cobalt uniform, which is very close to sapphire. 

[Egomere]

Greeting fellow Cosmereian (?) fans. First time poster long time reader and fan of all things Sanderson.

Now I have been reading this site for years but never signed in to comment until now because of how I feel about this topic.

I will first say I agree with alot of what has been said by others (and in alot more eloquent terms than I could so I won't rehash them.)

I am not really a 'shalladin shipper' so I wasn't really surprised by shadolin? but I was dissappointed with how it seems to have been handled so far - although I could say maybe we should wait for the next two books becasue we never know how things are going to turn out with BS. This was mainly because as others have said just how Shallan seems to arbitarily been forced to pick Adolin. I mean I can only really recall one meaningful exchange between Shallan and Kaladin which was on the boat when Shallan misconstrues what Kaladin says (as previously pointed out). This I found annoying because Shallan spends almost all her 'free time' with Adolin getting to 'know' him and rarely spends any with Kaladin to actually see the difference. After the fantastic Chasm scene this to me didn't do anyone any justice at all. Unaturally (storywise) being forced to spend time with Adolin rather than talking to both of them.

When combined with the fact that Adolin 'recognises Shallan persona' rather than Veil or Radient as the deciding factor it seems to completely ignore the fact that Kaladin has never treated her differently or thought of her as anything other than Shallan WHICHEVER guise she has been wearing - a much more balanced approach than Adolins teaching Radient how to fight with Shardblade and Veil becoming a drinking partner and him treating all three differently. It feels like a complete diservice to poor old Kaladin (who I do want to find someone like Syl keeps encouraging him to). When Shallan wants to be Shallan, poor old Kaladin has only ever treated her as Shallan (and all three as the same person) and it's Shallan whose been seperating. It makes me worry that she is definately going to have a massive head crash late book 4 when she finally processes the advice good old Hoid gave her (The girl who looked up).

Anyways I hope you follow my train of thought, I'm not always the greatest at expressing myself. and I apologise for the length.

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, Egomere said:

When combined with the fact that Adolin 'recognises Shallan persona' rather than Veil or Radient as the deciding factor it seems to completely ignore the fact that Kaladin has never treated her differently or thought of her as anything other than Shallan WHICHEVER guise she has been wearing - a much more balanced approach than Adolins teaching Radient how to fight with Shardblade and Veil becoming a drinking partner and him treating all three differently. It feels like a complete diservice to poor old Kaladin (who I do want to find someone like Syl keeps encouraging him to). When Shallan wants to be Shallan, poor old Kaladin has only ever treated her as Shallan (and all three as the same person) and it's Shallan whose been seperating. It makes me worry that she is definately going to have a massive head crash late book 4 when she finally processes the advice good old Hoid gave her (The girl who looked up).

First of all, welcome.

And don't worry. You're train of thought was very understandable.

Thank you for putting it into concise words, why I think, that Adolin isn't taking the right direction with helping Shallan. Shallan should not decide, who of all these personas she is, but accept, that she is all of them. That is exactly what Wit is trying to tell her.

Quote

But which one was her?

All of them. A new voice. Wit’s?

"Wit!” she screamed, surrounded by snapping eels in a dark place. “Wit! Please.”

You’re all of them, Shallan. Why must you be only one emotion? One set of sensations? One role? One life?

That there is no need to be just one. Treating her as Shallan, even if she isn't Shallan in that moment would help her more, than adapting your own behavior to the currently dominant persona, I think. It just confirms her thought, that those personas are too different from her.

Edited November 19, 2017 by SLNC

[DeployParachute]

FOREWARNING: Pick out your favorite artisan cheese, because more whine is incoming...

So I was rereading Part 5, because I blew through it pretty quickly on my first read, and of course I always knew second reads of OB were going to have me picking up stuff that I missed.  In keeping with previous analogies, if the last scene that I quoted in this thread was the sinking of the S.S. Shalladin, then this one was the equivalent of someone hawking a loogie into the water as it finally disappeared under the waves:

Quote

A pair of boots. Ka seemed embarrassed as she opened the box and revealed them as a gift from Kaladin and Bridge Four, but Shallan just laughed. It was a much needed moment of relief in the stress of the day.

Sanderson, Brandon. “Chapter 122: A Debt Repaid.” Oathbringer, Tor Fantasy, 2017. page 1223 Kindle Edition

Ah...the boots.  The boot joke making yet another appearance.  Only this time, even more people are in on it.  Never mind that this is a tie back to the very first scene that Kaladin and Shallan interacted in, the scene that most people would agree was very enjoyable and revealing about their two characters at the time.  A scene that offered a very provocative first glimpse as to the potential relationship between these two.  One that I'm sure that most Shalladin shippers were hoping to be able to point back to and say "See, it started there."  Well now...now its a freaking wedding gift to Shallan from Kaladin and Bridge Four.  And Bridge Four.  And Bloody Bridge Four.  It couldn't even have been from just Kaladin.  It couldn't have been the last bit of non-Adolin related connection to share just before her wedding.  Nope, the entirety of Bridge Four went in on that very special gag gift.

...gah!

...

...GAAAAAAAH!

Ignore me.  I'm just very, as the kids these days would say, "butthurt".  Now, as a form of therapy for myself, I will compose the scene in which this weird arrangement must have been made.

Spoiler

   Kaladin reluctantly stepped into the great Atrium of Urithiru, tucking the clumsily wrapped package under one arm.  Ahead, he could see a crowd massing in front of a large raised dais, facing out from the great glass wall where Adolin and Shallan would soon be wed.  Sunlight streamed down from a brilliantly blue sky onto the attendees of one of the most anticipated Alethi events in months.  Some people were milling about in groups chatting pleasantly, while others were already making their way to one of the many seats that had been arranged in organized rows in front of the dais.  This wasn't going to hurt.  Nope, not one bit.  No bitterness or resignation here.  Nope, just plain old uncaring acceptance.  Really, just no feelings on that matter whatsoever.  He was.  Like the wind and the rocks were.

   Scanning the various mingling groups, Kaladin soon spotted Bridge Four gathered together near one of the lifts.  Rock stood a head higher than the rest, guffawing loudly at something Skar had said to him.  Off to the side, Kaladin could see Teft by himself, leaning up against a pillar with his hands tucked into his armpits.  He looked surlier than usual.  Kaladin quickly strode over to join him, putting his back to the same pillar in silence. 

   Teft sniffed loudly, and glanced briefly in Kaladin's direction, making note of the package.  "Shouldn't you have had someone run that up to her already with the rest of the gifts?"

   "The wrapping took me longer than I thought it would."  Kaladin muttered, looking down sheepishly at the poorly wrapped parcel.  "I'll find one of her handmaids to deliver it to her, as soon as I see one.  Who did you give your present to?"

   "Storms, lad."  Teft chuckled.  "I don't even have two spheres to rub together at the moment.  How am I going to buy a present?  No, no, she'll have to do without a wedding gift from the likes of me."

   "Present?" A voice called.  Teft and Kaladin glanced over at Bridge Four as Sigzil came strolling over to them.  "What's all this I hear about a present?  Were we supposed to get Brightness Shallan a present?"  The rest of Bridge Four followed him, their other conversations dying down.

   "Well, no Sig..." Kaladin stammered.  "I mean, yes, I suppose it is pretty traditional, but I wouldn't say that you needed to..."

   "You mean to tell me, Sig," Teft cut in, chuckling, "that the great Worldsinger of our group is not up to speed on Alethi wedding customs?"

   "Incomplete Worldsinger, Teft, Incomplete!"  Sigzil cried, throwing up his hands.  "And no, we did not cover gift giving at Alethi weddings, since you seem so curious."  He turned to the rest of Bridge Four.  "Did any of you get a gift?"

   "This thing, giving gifts at wedding, is only for airsick lowlanders."  Rock chortled and shrugged.  "It is not thing the Unkalaki do."

   "So no one got her a gift?"  Sigzil asked incredulously, eyeing each member of Bridge Four as they shrugged, or looked down at their feet.  Only Drehy seemed chagrined, but he still had a lopsided smile pasted on his face.

   "Speak for yourself, gancho."  A voice called from above.  Several members of Bridge Four jerked in surprise, glancing up as Lopen gracefully floated towards them, upside down of course.  "The Lopen has had his present ready for weeks now, gon."  He twirled in midair, righting himself just before touching down lightly on his feet.

   "Chouta doesn't count as a present, Lopen." Eth quipped, smirking.

   "You're right, gon, chouta's too good for the likes of a present.  No, the Lopen has his present right here."  Lopen pulled his hand out of his trouser pocket, and held it before him, pinky finger extended upwards from his fist.  On it sat the tiniest straw hat Kaladin had ever seen.  It was a very simple, but very effeminate design.  It even had a sapphire colored ribbon tied neatly into a tiny, delicate bow.  

   "What in damnation is that?"  Sigzil swore, gripping the hat lightly between thumb and forefinger and bringing it to his face for a closer inspection.

   "That, gon," Lopen said, plucking the hat back from Sigzils fingers, "is the finest hat the Lopen has ever made.  Every lady loves herself a hat, everyone knows that."

   "Lopen, it's tiny."

   "Well sure, Gancho, I made it back when I was still making myself glow to impress a lady spren.  Lady spren's gotta have a tiny hat, no?  Anyway, the Lopen tried to get Rua to wear it.  He didn't think it so great."  Lopen glanced to the side.  "Right, naco?"  A swirling ribbon of white blue light alighted onto his shoulder.  It formed into the shape of a young man, who began giving everyone an enthusiastically rude gesture.

   "Alright, fine, good luck with that, Lopen." Sigzil sighed.  He turned back to the rest of them.  "What are we going to do?"

   "Not much we can do, Sig." Skar said, other Bridge Four members nodding in agreement.  "It's kind of too late.  Relax, I doubt a present from us would be missed.  So long as Kaladin got her something, we're good."

   "That's right!" Sigzil exclaimed, turning back to Kaladin.  "Kaladin's already got her a present from us."

   Kaladin stood up from the pillar in mild annoyance.  "What do you mean 'from us', Sig?  This is my present to Shallan.  It's...it's an inside joke, it wouldn't make sense coming from all of you."

   "Well...we could just pretend that we're all in on it.  What does it really matter?  Look, I can find some pencils or something, and we could just write the Bridge Four glyphs on there..."

   "No Sig, I'm not comfortable with that."

   "But we really should..."

   "No Sig!" Kaladin shouted.  "I..."  He caught himself, breathing deeply to calm his emotions.  Don't feel, conceal.  Let it go.  "Can we just drop it?  I have to find someone to take it to her soon anyway."  He turned from the rest of them and started searching the atrium.  "I just need to figure out who that is."  

   "Alright, Kal" Sigzil sighed, seemingly resigned.  "I get it."  He quirked his chin up slightly, one eyebrow raising in sudden epiphany.  "Why don't you give it to Ka? She can take it up to Shallan."

   "Fine." Kaladin grumbled, looking around.  "Where is she?"

   "I'll take it to her," Sigzil said as he reached out for the package.  Kaladin frowned, his eyes staring at Sigzil suspiciously from under a furrowed brow.  "Come on, Kal, it's getting close to starting time.  You'll miss it."  Sigzil urged, with what looked like an exaggerated face of innocence.

   Kaladin closed his eyes with a sigh, and reluctantly placed the slightly ruffled package into Sigzil's outstretched hand.  Sigzil pulled it to his chest, and quickly turned to march off into the crowd.

*****

   After a slight detour, Sigzil found Ka on her way to one of the many lifts on the far side of the atrium from where Bridge Four stood.  He called out to her, and she stopped and spun towards him , startled.  Several other guests turned to look as well.

   "Sig, don't shout at me like that out of nowhere, Storms!"  Ka said, gloved safehand gripping her chest.

   "Sorry, Ka.  So sorry, but we're in a hurry.  I need you to take the Bridge Four present up to Shallan."

   "The Bridge Four...all of Bridge Four got her a present, Sig?"  She asked, incredulously.

   "Yes yes," Sigzil replied, quickly shoving the parcel into her hands.  "All of us pitched in a bit.  See, says so right on the tag!"  He pointed at the Bridge Four glyphs that he had carefully squeezed in, right after Kaladin's unfortunate attempt at writing his own name in the Alethi women's script.  Poor man had gotten several of the letters backwards, and it appeared to be written in a soft, colorful wax that is very popular with children who are learning to draw.

   "Anyway, you've got to get it to her quickly, Ka.  They're probably almost finished with gifts now."  He turned her, and gently pushed her off in the direction of the throne where Shallan sat waiting on her blessings to finish.  Confused, and looking slightly abashed, Ka wandered off to get in line.  Sigzil turned, feeling partially ashamed, but mostly relieved.  He turned and strode back in the direction of Bridge Four, briefly wondering just what was inside the present.  

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by DeployParachute

[Guest]

@DeployParachute

Well, if Kaladin told Ka that it also was from B4...

Some of Bridge Four was present when the Boots scene happened. If anything this was the result of Kaladin saying something to Ka, which I could completely understand. He might feel acceptance, but I'd also understand if he now wants to keep the relationship more professional and less personal, out of respect for Adolin. Us men can be strange like that.

Edited November 19, 2017 by SLNC

[Info_Drone-0451]

Alright, here's what started bothering me today.

The triangle is a Chekhov's gun, which is a dramatic principle that states that every element in a story must be necessary, and irrelevant elements should be removed; elements should not appear to make "false promises" by never coming into play(according to Wikipedia). They took that gun on stage, toyed a bit with it and then shoved it backstage. Why were all those teases and hints, big and small, needed if it leads nowhere? I guess I'm just frustrated, and maybe a little bias and, well, vitriol is bleeding in my words but damnation that the most strong I've felt about being unsastisfied with a conclusion ( I guess thats a good thing from the creator's viewpoint? The book makes me feel strongly even if it heavily disagrees with me?), and the more I think about it the more I err on the side of all the stuff I see here and agree with are the result of my confirmation bias.

Hope that doesn't read too much like a rant because it certainly feels like that.

Edited November 19, 2017 by DimChatz

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, DimChatz said:

I guess thats a good thing from the creator's viewpoint? The book makes me feel strongly even if it heavily disagrees with me?

I don't think it is the author's intention to elicit negative emotions.

Edited November 19, 2017 by SLNC

[Info_Drone-0451]

2 minutes ago, SLNC said:

I don't think it is the author's intention to elicit negative emotions.

Well, no, but the creator would want to elicit strong feelings in the reader and I guess my frustration is not necessarily negative. It's that short of feeling someone would get upon seeing a hanged painting hanging askew, more like a nagging pressure on the back of my head that'll be gone in a month or 2 weeks. Maybe I'm supposed to feel that way temporarily so the conclusion and subsequent catharsis to be that much more meanigful and satisfactory?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, DimChatz said:

Well, no, but the creator would want to elicit strong feelings in the reader and I guess my frustration is not necessarily negative. It's that short of feeling someone would get upon seeing a hanged painting hanging askew, more like a nagging pressure on the back of my head that'll be gone in a month or 2 weeks. Maybe I'm supposed to feel that way temporarily so the conclusion and subsequent catharsis to be that much more meanigful and satisfactory?

Maybe...

I just feel deceived.