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[OB] Worldhopper spotting


Havoc

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Who all do we have so far as worldhoppers in this book?

  1. Hoid: Nothing to be said here
  2. Vasher/Zahel: Nothing new in this book
  3. Vivenna/Azure: Really interesting to see how competent Viv has become
  4. Riino the Lighthouse keeper: An Elantrian
  5. Felt: The spy from Mistborn finally gets a speaking part
  6. Nightblood: I wonder if the Fused that he kills are permanently killed...
  7. Some talk about Shashara sounding similar to Shalash

Anything else I've missed?

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Oh, I agree that it's incredibly unlikely that Shalash = Shashara. I just thought that it's interesting for that connection to be drawn in the book so explicitly.

Quote

No. But sometimes she talked like she did. And after Shashara made me, she argued with Vasher, saying I could be a poet or a scholar. Like a man, right?
Shashara? That sounded like Shalash, the Eastern name for the Herald Shush-daughter-God. So perhaps this sword’s origin was with the Heralds.

 

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Some interesting worldhopping connections that aren't just limited to characters:

  • Mraize's laundry lady gets "aether" out of his clothes. I won't stray into spoiler territory (save it for the Aether spoiler board), but it's nice to see that word appear in canon.
  • Hoid has a jar of mastered sand. When Shallan spots him storytelling in Kholinar, his pack has a jar filled with something black, but it's also white on the side facing her. It must be black sand, with the sand closest to her feeding on her Stormlight and regenerating. I suspect it's what he uses for some of his dust-based storytelling.
  • The "crystal ball" of the Elantrian fortune-teller makes me think of the Connection sphere that Kelsier used. Nothing too concrete as far as parallels go, but I think there's another Selish magic system that can use these for a number of things.
  • The Court of the Gods painting in Shadesmar. Apparently, it's not just Returned who can get visions... maybe anyone with Investiture?
  • Awakening is quite prevalent in this book. It's the first thing that the fortune-teller asks about when he realizes Kaladin has Investiture. We see Hoid use it on-screen at the end, we see Azure use it with her cloak around her arm while they are fighting in Kholinar, and we also see Azure prepare some defenders out of cloth before they part ways with her (although we don't see them get awakened on-screen).
  • A new Nalthian Shardblade, which Azure has. It apparently has a mind, although it doesn't require constant Investiture like Nightblood and doesn't vaporize whoever it touches. (I think this is also designed to lay the framework for Odium's Shardblade, which we see Moash use at the end of the book.)
  • Nightwatcher seems to reference Nightblood in the things she offers Dalinar. How did she get a hold of it? And how did Nale get it?
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Can we do Worldhopper and off-world items spotting, like Pagerunner did?  I tend to completely miss both so a list of both in the OP would be appreciated.

 

Like, apparently Mraize's green chicken is an Aviar.

Edited by RShara
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13 minutes ago, RShara said:

Can we do Worldhopper and off-world items spotting, like Pagerunner did?  I tend to completely miss both so a list of both in the OP would be appreciated.

 

Like, apparently Mraize's green chicken is an Aviar.

I was extremely proud of myself for recognizing Vivenna and someone from Sel (the Shadesmar fortune teller). Beyond that, I’m pretty awful at recognizing these things and rely on lurking here to impress my friends with my vast Cosmere knowledge. 

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I missed the White Sand bit, @Pagerunner (though I did make a note of it, intending to come back and think about it). Good call. 

I am also not sure that the Nightwatcher had Nightblood. My impression was that she could... procure it for him. Arrange things so that it lands in Dalinar's possession. Though now that I think about it, this idea seems a little less likely...

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I got all but the White Sand reference and Cob. Vivenna became obvious as soon as she said ‘like white on black!’ Vasher/Zahel uses the EXACT SAME phrase earlier in the book. So that one jumped out at me.

I REALLY want Nightblood to be written now. It’s moved to second most desired (The Lost Metal is first.) 

Riino says ‘Merciful Domi!’ So that was clearly meant to be obvious. I’m really wondering about his sphere though...

Felt I already knew, but was glad to see him again. Especially since I was looking for Scadrians.

Anyone else wishing for better descriptions of the people in Mraize’s house? And HOW did anyone survive Patji?! And who was it?!

Edited by Kingsdaughter613
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46 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Not exactly world hoppers (well some are)... but it was nice to hear from Saze!

Anyone else think the second letter may have been from Bavadin? The avatar thing made me wonder. 

Really uncertain about the first...

If the first letter was from a known shard, then process of elimination means that it has to be Edgli/Endowment (still alive, only Shard on the world).

If the second letter was from a known shard, then by PoE it has to be Bavadin/Autonomy (still alive, only Shard, expansionist).

The third letter has to be from Sazed, unless there are other people out there with more than one Shard. Brandon has been pretty clear that Sazed is the only being Odium fears because he holds two Shards. Then again, he has played with us before...

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Oh, we know it’s Saze because the letter writer sounds just like him, right down to the ‘Unfortunately, I am...’ type manner of speaking. Saze loves to abuse his commas.

I’m uncertain if the writer is Endowment or an unknown female Shard, but I’m leaning towards unknown.

I’m feeling confident about Bavadin being letter #2.

Edited by Kingsdaughter613
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1 hour ago, Wizard said:

If the first letter was from a known shard, then process of elimination means that it has to be Edgli/Endowment (still alive, only Shard on the world).

If the second letter was from a known shard, then by PoE it has to be Bavadin/Autonomy (still alive, only Shard, expansionist).

The third letter has to be from Sazed, unless there are other people out there with more than one Shard. Brandon has been pretty clear that Sazed is the only being Odium fears because he holds two Shards. Then again, he has played with us before...

I wouldn't entirely rule out Cultivation, as it's possible she didn't start off on the same world as Honour, but I agree if it's a known shard it was probably Endowment.

Also worth noting is that Uli Da is probably a new vessel name. This probably refers to Ambition, as the unknown vessel in Letter #1 is glad to be rid of her.

Bavadin being Letter #2- possibly. I would certainly say it's likely to be whoever Trell is, given the reference to many worlds, although the references to water would be a negative for Bavadin unless she's branched out from just Taldain. Also - we should remember Obrodai as a possible Shardworld.

Definitely agree that it's obvious #3 is from Sazed, that's what clued me on to them being separate letters. Brandon's usually much clearer about that sort of thing, although I suppose he'd have to have had a more obvious signoff to each letter to differentiate them somehow to be clearer here, and I can understand him wanting to be circumspect about the identity of these vessels.

As nobody's linked it yet, btw: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Oathbringer/Epigraphs

If anyone's asking just a single question about these, btw, I'd suggest "are all the letters from various Shards in Part 2 of Oathbringer from shards we had already seen?" Because if those guesses are right, the answer should be yes.

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Coming out of lurk mode to throw my two cents in. As a preface, this could be probable common knowledge, I lurk very infrequently, but something towards the end of the book stood out to me. 

We could originally classify the Heralds as worldhoppers regardless, as they hop (albeit not of their own volition) between Roshar and Braize between desolations.

Even more so, as they probably accompanied the original human population to Roshar, causing the first desolation, and forging the oathpact.

But I'm now confused due to something Ash said towards the end, when Jasnah spots her and Taln, she swears, but specifically it's:

Quote

 

Oh God. Oh, Adonalsium!

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: The Stormlight Archive Book Three (Kindle Location 23739). Orion. Kindle Edition. 

 

I know there is a WoB out there that shows that Humans on Roshar predate the shattering (this seems to contradict the in book information that humans arrived with Odium); but combined with Ash refering to Hoid as 'Midus'. Which, correct me if I am wrong, was his name on Yolen, pre-shattering, makes me believe that either the heralds at the least accompanied the original human population, but at most, were active elsewhere in the cosmere pre-shattering.

Also, the fact that they are seemingly able to live incredibly long lives without their honorblades, indicating they must be invested in some other way than Honor. Somewhat like Hoid and other worldhoppers appear to be.

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There's a possibility that what that means is that humans had visited Roshar pre-shattering, but hadn't emigrated. Hell, it's possible that Rosharan humans are from Yolen, and emigrated because the Shattering made their world uninhabitable, or because whatever happened pre-shattering did it, and the Shattering was some desperate last-ditch attempt to stop the problem that didn't work. (but that seems less likely given that Sazed managed to rectify things on Scadrial pretty well)

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I think there are some misconceptions on the subject of Roshar's ancient history that arose because Brandon has been intentionally cagey on this point. (Which makes sense, considering how it's a major twist.)

1 hour ago, Kersev said:

I know there is a WoB out there that shows that Humans on Roshar predate the shattering (this seems to contradict the in book information that humans arrived with Odium); but combined with Ash refering to Hoid as 'Midus'. Which, correct me if I am wrong, was his name on Yolen, pre-shattering, makes me believe that either the heralds at the least accompanied the original human population, but at most, were active elsewhere in the cosmere pre-shattering.

That question was incorrectly paraphrased. The actual transcription is:

Quote

Lirins hand

On Roshar, do the humans predate the two Shards coming there, or did they come with the Shards?

Brandon Sanderson

The humans were...not created by Honor, Cultivation or Odium.

The questioner gave Brandon a false dilemma, and Brandon gave an Aes Sedai answer.

 

42 minutes ago, Ari said:

There's a possibility that what that means is that humans had visited Roshar pre-shattering, but hadn't emigrated. Hell, it's possible that Rosharan humans are from Yolen, and emigrated because the Shattering made their world uninhabitable, or because whatever happened pre-shattering did it, and the Shattering was some desperate last-ditch attempt to stop the problem that didn't work. (but that seems less likely given that Sazed managed to rectify things on Scadrial pretty well)

We know that humans did not migrate from Yolen to Roshar. Khriss says in the Rosharan AU essay that Ashyn suffered a cataclysm a long time ago, so I think that's our number one candidate for the original world of this group of humans.

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I'd be careful with that WoB. He says "people," not "humans," and he has previously used the word "people" to refer to non-human sentient beings. This could be Brandon being tricky and pointing out red herrings to avoid spoiling his surprise, by saying something that is technically correct because Parshendi are people.

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10 minutes ago, Ari said:

I'd be careful with that WoB. He says "people," not "humans," and he has previously used the word "people" to refer to non-human sentient beings. This could be Brandon being tricky and pointing out red herrings to avoid spoiling his surprise, by saying something that is technically correct because Parshendi are people.

There's a difference between a carefully phrased piece of misdirection, and an outright lie. Since humans are people by (almost) every definition of the word, I don't think you can stretch that WoB to the point Brandon is only referring to the Dawnsingers while excluding humans.

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